Proper use of Lantern of Shadows


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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Tuesday, 20th May 2014, 15:21

Proper use of Lantern of Shadows

dck wrote:LoS is incredibly annoying to find because it's so god damn strong not using it is ridiculous if you actually are a character who has concerns about survival.


So, I've tried Lantern of Shadows. The shadows are OK, but they disappear, I get reduced line of sight, my MP gets neutered, and I can't wield squat, but when I do wield, new things can potentially enter line of sight and the timer for the shadow allys ticks.

What are some good tactics or character types for using it properly?
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Tuesday, 20th May 2014, 15:41

Re: Proper use of Lantern of Shadows

It is used for running away especially from things at the edge of your LoS.

Snake Sneak

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Post Tuesday, 20th May 2014, 17:09

Re: Proper use of Lantern of Shadows

Only losing 2 tiles off of LOS doesnt make it very good. Needs to be buffed.

Barkeep

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Post Tuesday, 20th May 2014, 17:35

Re: Proper use of Lantern of Shadows

shizmoo wrote:Only losing 2 tiles off of LOS doesnt make it very good. Needs to be buffed.


Uh, what? Lantern requires 0 training in any skill and gives you the effect of a level 7 hex just by wielding it, and it randomly spawns multiple allies for you without taking any action/MP/hunger cost (though rate of shadowspawn is based on evocations). You have to wield it and it nerfs spell casting, so it doesn't have much offensive utility, but in terms of eluding enemies or running away it basically feels like getting an autocasting free summoning spell and a high tier hexes spell with no experience investment. If you happen to have some evocations you will get shadows more frequently. You think that needs to be buffed?

dck

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Post Tuesday, 20th May 2014, 17:46

Re: Proper use of Lantern of Shadows

Well the lantern gives you a way of killing almost all enemies in the game for free and in a really safe fashion, it also doesn't involve any semblance of advanced tactics since it'll be just the shadows killing everything; all the lantern requires is that you are weak and threatened by everything around you enough that the idea of walking around letting shadows deal with any problem sounds better than dying.
Some may argue there is no circumstance under which actually using the LoS is preferable to death and I would be inclined to agree with that, but it doesn't change the fact it's an incredibly strong item.

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Barkeep

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Post Tuesday, 20th May 2014, 17:56

Re: Proper use of Lantern of Shadows

I've mainly just used the lantern for fleeing, because waiting around for the shadows to kill lots of stuff is not very fun, but yes you can shadow-swarm dudes to kill them.
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Pandemonium Purger

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Post Tuesday, 20th May 2014, 20:05

Re: Proper use of Lantern of Shadows

Basically you wield the lantern and run around a big area until whatever is chasing you dies.
This doesn't work quite as well against threatening monsters that are faster than you, but it should certainly prolong your agony long enough for you to be able to teleport.
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Snake Sneak

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Post Tuesday, 20th May 2014, 20:08

Re: Proper use of Lantern of Shadows

and into wrote:
shizmoo wrote:Only losing 2 tiles off of LOS doesnt make it very good. Needs to be buffed.


Uh, what? Lantern requires 0 training in any skill and gives you the effect of a level 7 hex just by wielding it, and it randomly spawns multiple allies for you without taking any action/MP/hunger cost (though rate of shadowspawn is based on evocations). You have to wield it and it nerfs spell casting, so it doesn't have much offensive utility, but in terms of eluding enemies or running away it basically feels like getting an autocasting free summoning spell and a high tier hexes spell with no experience investment. If you happen to have some evocations you will get shadows more frequently. You think that needs to be buffed?


Yes I do. Get rid of shadow summon and buff LOS loss based on evocations.

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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Tuesday, 20th May 2014, 20:15

Re: Proper use of Lantern of Shadows

Shadow Summon is more important than decreasing Line of Sight further, -2 tiles is enough IMHO. Shadows block line of fire and make monsters waste turns, try it in corridor to see.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Wednesday, 21st May 2014, 02:04

Re: Proper use of Lantern of Shadows

Get rid of shadow summon and buff LOS loss based on evocations.

this is a weird definition of "buff lantern of shadows"

lantern wrecks anything without sinv, like the entire saint roka band

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Mines Malingerer

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Post Thursday, 22nd May 2014, 14:57

Re: Proper use of Lantern of Shadows

Not to mention I think it still stacks with demonspawn's night stalker mutation. That gives you a truly ridiculous enemy LoS. Combine in with Ash radar or antennae and you can easily lose almost anything.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Thursday, 22nd May 2014, 15:36

Re: Proper use of Lantern of Shadows

LoS reduces LoS by 25% similar to Darkness spell.
So Nightstalker (8-3=5) + Darkness (0.75*5=4) + LoS (0.75*4) = 3 tiles?
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Thursday, 22nd May 2014, 16:06

Re: Proper use of Lantern of Shadows

I just picked a LoS from an early shop (exempting buying other things), and it is helping the heck out of my game. Rather than having to do a lot of fleeing/kiting, now I'm allowing summoned shadows to get in the way and possibly (likely) ultimately decimate enemies.

Does LoS increase hunger during use? I don't see it as obvious, but it feels that way.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Thursday, 22nd May 2014, 16:12

Re: Proper use of Lantern of Shadows

No, it does not affect hunger.

Spoiler: show
int player_hunger_rate(bool temp)
{
int hunger = 3;

if (temp && you.form == TRAN_BAT)
return 1;

if (you.species == SP_TROLL)
hunger += 3; // in addition to the +3 for fast metabolism

if (temp
&& (you.duration[DUR_REGENERATION]
|| you.duration[DUR_TROGS_HAND])
&& you.hp < you.hp_max)
{
hunger += 4;
}

if (temp)
{
if (you.duration[DUR_INVIS])
hunger += 5;

// Berserk has its own food penalty - excluding berserk haste.
// Doubling the hunger cost for haste so that the per turn hunger
// is consistent now that a hasted turn causes 50% the normal hunger
// -cao
if (you.duration[DUR_HASTE])
hunger += haste_mul(5);
}

if (you.species == SP_VAMPIRE)
{
switch (you.hunger_state)
{
case HS_STARVING:
case HS_NEAR_STARVING:
hunger -= 3;
break;
case HS_VERY_HUNGRY:
hunger -= 2;
break;
case HS_HUNGRY:
hunger--;
break;
case HS_SATIATED:
break;
case HS_FULL:
hunger++;
break;
case HS_VERY_FULL:
hunger += 2;
break;
case HS_ENGORGED:
hunger += 3;
}
}
else
{
hunger += player_mutation_level(MUT_FAST_METABOLISM)
- player_mutation_level(MUT_SLOW_METABOLISM);
}

// burden
if (temp)
hunger += you.burden_state;

if (you.hp < you.hp_max
&& player_mutation_level(MUT_SLOW_HEALING) < 3)
{
// rings
hunger += 3 * you.wearing(EQ_RINGS, RING_REGENERATION);

// troll leather
if (you.species != SP_TROLL
&& (you.wearing(EQ_BODY_ARMOUR, ARM_TROLL_LEATHER_ARMOUR)
|| you.wearing(EQ_BODY_ARMOUR, ARM_TROLL_HIDE)))
{
hunger += coinflip() ? 2 : 1;
}
}

// If Cheibriados has slowed your life processes, you will hunger less.
if (you_worship(GOD_CHEIBRIADOS) && you.piety >= piety_breakpoint(0))
hunger = hunger * 3 / 4;

if (hunger < 1)
hunger = 1;

return hunger;
}

Mines Malingerer

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Post Thursday, 22nd May 2014, 18:16

Re: Proper use of Lantern of Shadows

I found a LoS with my CeHu. Should I be using it? For the most part, it seems like I'd rather be shooting things when they are farther away. From what I'm reading here, it sounds like maybe I should instead be allowing summoned shadows to kill things instead of trying to kill things myself. I've never actually used LoS before, so I'm just trying to figure out the best way to use it.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Joined: Friday, 8th February 2013, 12:00

Post Thursday, 22nd May 2014, 18:27

Re: Proper use of Lantern of Shadows

I think monsters killed by shadows bring less XP.

Abyss Ambulator

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Post Thursday, 22nd May 2014, 18:40

Re: Proper use of Lantern of Shadows

What is up with the vague description it has: "An unholy device which calls on the powers of darkness to assist its user, with a small cost attached. "

I was afraid to use it for a long time, because I thought the 'small cost' was something bad, like permanent stat drain or HP rot or something. But really the 'small cost' is double negative spell enhancer. Why doesn't it just say that?

"An unholy device which calls on the powers of darkness to assist its user, it jealously weakens the magic of its holder to prevent its own from being overshadowed. "

I personified it and put a pun in there. I better get some thanks for this... ;)

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Tomb Titivator

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Post Thursday, 22nd May 2014, 19:17

Re: Proper use of Lantern of Shadows

Shadows die pretty easily.
Last edited by Klown on Thursday, 29th May 2014, 21:20, edited 1 time in total.

Dungeon Master

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Post Thursday, 22nd May 2014, 20:00

Re: Proper use of Lantern of Shadows

damiac wrote:What is up with the vague description it has:

Sounds like your build is old (that commit is in 0.14, even).

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Abyss Ambulator

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Post Thursday, 22nd May 2014, 20:43

Re: Proper use of Lantern of Shadows

It's not that my build is old, it's been a long time since I've read the description in game. I looked it up on the wiki today because I couldn't remember the exact text, but that's what I was thinking of.

But I see it's already been updated, although to an unfortunately pun free description.
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Tomb Titivator

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Post Thursday, 29th May 2014, 21:27

Re: Proper use of Lantern of Shadows

crate wrote:lantern wrecks anything without sinv, like the entire saint roka band


Just had a Orc Warlord make my ten or so shadows look like rats.

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