Leaving Vehumet

[TeshiAlair]

After doing a quick search, it looked like most advice on leaving Vehumet was a bit outdated, so I was wondering what people would advice for a 3-runer by a mediocre player- stay with Veh after getting their last gifts, or switching over to someone else? Playing as a spellcasting Naga.

[duvessa]

stay because god wrath is kind of insane right now

[tabstorm]

As was noted above god wrath has been buffed recently, furthermore vehumet's powers are highly useful for characters that cast lots of conjurations so there isn't really a good reason to leave.

[doubtofbuddha]

So does that mean at this point we should be skipping gods that are not so great in the late game, like Yred?

[duvessa]

yred is extremely strong in the late game

[and into]

Yred is really good in late game (Depths + Zot).

Leaving gods was always dumb in *most* cases even before the wrath change, and most advice I've read about leaving this or that god because they "drop off in power" was merely a reflection of bad tendencies for OCD min-maxing and armchair strategizing, rather than any sane and rational assessment of actual costs and benefits.

[tabstorm]

Yred is really good in late game (Depths + Zot).

Leaving gods was always dumb in *most* cases even before the wrath change, and most advice I've read about leaving this or that god because they "drop off in power" was merely a reflection of bad tendencies for OCD min-maxing and armchair strategizing, rather than any sane and rational assessment of actual costs and benefits.

There are grounds at least to leave Yred or (less so) Fedhas for instance for extended since your piety gain will approach 0 and your abilities will be less useful, so you can get more benefit from changing to TSO or Zin or Jiyva. Now that god wrath has been buffed this may/may not be true any longer.

[and into]

Yred is really good in late game (Depths + Zot).

Leaving gods was always dumb in *most* cases even before the wrath change, and most advice I've read about leaving this or that god because they "drop off in power" was merely a reflection of bad tendencies for OCD min-maxing and armchair strategizing, rather than any sane and rational assessment of actual costs and benefits.

There are grounds at least to leave Yred or (less so) Fedhas for instance for extended since your piety gain will approach 0 and your abilities will be less useful, so you can get more benefit from changing to TSO or Zin or Jiyva. Now that god wrath has been buffed this may/may not be true any longer.

Yes, extended is weird and sometimes makes doing that sort of thing reasonable. But it isn't too uncommon to hear people saying that you should abandon Makhleb or Trog for extended, or drop Kiku after getting necronomicon or ditching Yred in late (not "post-end") game.

[tabstorm]

Yred is really good in late game (Depths + Zot).

Leaving gods was always dumb in *most* cases even before the wrath change, and most advice I've read about leaving this or that god because they "drop off in power" was merely a reflection of bad tendencies for OCD min-maxing and armchair strategizing, rather than any sane and rational assessment of actual costs and benefits.

There are grounds at least to leave Yred or (less so) Fedhas for instance for extended since your piety gain will approach 0 and your abilities will be less useful, so you can get more benefit from changing to TSO or Zin or Jiyva. Now that god wrath has been buffed this may/may not be true any longer.

Yes, extended is weird and sometimes makes doing that sort of thing reasonable. But it isn't too uncommon to hear people saying that you should abandon Makhleb or Trog for extended, or drop Kiku after getting necronomicon or ditching Yred in late (not "post-end") game.

Maybe I don't post on here enough but I don't see any of those aside from abandoning Trog for extended, with how bad his wrath is now I wouldn't ever recommend it unless you're doing a speedrun and even then it's dubious and obviously there have been very successful speedruns with trog all the way. for instance. when specing some guy doing tomb a few days ago, i witnessed trog drop about 8-10 zerking stone giants/deep trolls about 10 times over the course of Tomb. It was pretty crazy.

The only changes that seem somewhat natural to me are:

Oka -> whatever for extended (not that great anyway oka is still solid in extended)
Yred -> whatever for extended
fedhas -> whatever for extended(jello mitigates much of his wrath)

[Quazifuji]

Veh's gifts are far from the only useful aspect of him. The bonuses to conjurations and mana on kill are still useful long after you've gotten his last gifts, and are the biggest reason to go with him.

[Hopeless]

The only discussions I've seen about this (changing gods) that made sense to me were the ones about switching from one good god to another. (But keeping in mind that you still risk wrath later from those gods if you go evil which makes your choices fairly strict.) I have no idea what the strength of the different sorts of wrath are but it seems like unless you are already to win the game anyway there is no point (because you will die) and if you are ready/capable then why do you need to?

[vengefulcarrot]

well if you got that far with naga and assuming you have haste/cblink you are probably pretty beast so yea...

1) switching prob won't make you non-beastmode but you will incurr unecessary wrath
2) vehumet is boss just stay. The wizardry helps in that you can divert your skills into weapons/defences. And the other MP on kill and spellpower stuff is great too.

[ElderVIII]

The only god switch that I found was acceptable was Oka > TSO, and that was only for the few times I attempted extended.

[EntropicMage]

Vehumet is my favorite god for mages. The extra range and mana per kill are very useful. I probably wouldn't switch off of that one if you have maxed out piety.

I know that there are some gods that people like to dump when they go for Jivya, but I haven't done that yet.

[and into]

The only changes that seem somewhat natural to me are:

Oka -> whatever for extended (not that great anyway oka is still solid in extended)
Yred -> whatever for extended
fedhas -> whatever for extended(jello mitigates much of his wrath)

I agree that those changes are often reasonable if going for extended. (Along with trivial cases of switching amongst the "good gods" or from good god to non-evil.)

You'll occasionally see batty advice about switching gods on Tavern, much more so in guides on the wiki. Of course a lot of that advice predated the wrath intensification change, but still. Even when most wrath was trivial to work around, there was a significant cost simply in that you go from high piety with one god and all of its abilities unlocked to starting piety with another god.

I also agree that Trog is in fact strong in extended.

[Rumbleguts]

Currently playing a GrFi of Oka>TSO, I can say that when I left Okawaru for TSO and entered the Crypt those wrath summons from Oka were a nightmare. It took me a little while to figure out how to deal with them without spending lots of resources. I think it was still a good choice for my character to switch to TSO.

Darn Titans.

[NessOnett]

I'd never consider leaving a God in a 3-rune game. There just isn't enough point to offset the potential risks. In extended, you can get a lot more mileage out of your new God if you need one(specifically good ones).