Feedback Sought

Friday, 25th April 2014, 21:39 by Garrus01

Alright guys, I've been trying but I seem to hit a something of a roadblock when it comes to my caster characters. Here is my latest attempt-is there anything I could have done, or was I screwed the second that centaur showed up and spotted me? Dangit, I really liked the way the mutations on this character were developing too...

Code:: Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.14.0 (tiles) character file. 1262 Dante the Firebug (level 8, -10/52 HPs) Began as a Demonspawn Fire Elementalist on Apr 24, 2014. Was a Follower of Vehumet. Shot with an arrow by a centaur (14 damage) ... on Level 5 of the Dungeon on Apr 25, 2014. The game lasted 00:52:23 (6916 turns). Dante the Firebug (Demonspawn Fire Elementalist) Turns: 6916, Time: 00:52:23 HP -10/52 AC 3 Str 9 XL: 8 Next: 11% MP 28/28 EV 14 Int 18 God: Vehumet [*.....] Gold 152 SH 0 Dex 17 Spells: 4 memorised, 5 levels left rFire . . . SeeInvis . (no weapon) rCold . . . Clarity . a - +0 robe rNeg . . . Conserve . (no shield) rPois . rCorr . (helmet restricted) rElec . rRot . (no cloak) SustAb . . Spirit . k - +0 pair of gloves rMut . Warding . (no boots) Saprov . . . Stasis . (no amulet) MR ..... A - +3 ring of dexterity s - ring of magical power @: not resistant to hostile enchantments, quite stealthy A: claws 1, horns 2, demonic guardian 1, nightstalker 1 a: Renounce Religion You were on level 5 of the Dungeon. You worshipped Vehumet. Vehumet was aware of your devotion. You were hungry. You visited 2 branches of the dungeon, and saw 6 of its levels. You collected 152 gold pieces. Inventory: Missiles r - 7 darts (quivered) D - 3 arrows Armour a - a +0 robe (worn) k - a +0 pair of gloves (worn) m - a +0 robe u - a +0 robe Magical devices w - a wand of lightning (0) y - a wand of enslavement (4) Comestibles c - 4 bread rations h - a meat ration B - a chunk of hobgoblin flesh Scrolls e - a scroll of amnesia {unknown} f - a scroll of blinking j - 2 scrolls of noise {unknown} n - 6 scrolls of remove curse o - 2 scrolls of recharging {unknown} p - 3 scrolls of fog {unknown} v - a scroll of enchant weapon II z - a scroll of identify Jewellery s - a ring of magical power (left hand) A - a +3 ring of dexterity (right hand) Potions d - a potion of agility {unknown} g - a potion of curing {unknown} i - 2 potions of magic {unknown} l - a potion of poison {unknown} q - a potion of brilliance {unknown} t - 2 potions of restore abilities x - a potion of haste C - a potion of invisibility {unknown} Books b - a book of Flames Spells Type Level *Flame Tongue Conjuration/Fire 1 *Throw Flame Conjuration/Fire 2 *Conjure Flame Conjuration/Fire 3 Inner Flame Hexes/Fire 3 Sticky Flame Conjuration/Fire 4 *Fireball Conjuration/Fire 5 Skills: * Level 3.2 Dodging + Level 2.5 Stealth + Level 4.8 Spellcasting * Level 5.1 Conjurations * Level 5.5 Fire Magic You had 5 spell levels left. You knew the following spells: Your Spells Type Power Failure Level Hunger a - Flame Tongue Conj/Fire ###.. 1% 1 None b - Throw Flame Conj/Fire ###... 1% 2 #...... c - Conjure Flame Conj/Fire ###..... 4% 3 ###.... d - Fireball Conj/Fire ###....... 41% 5 #####.. Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations Branches: Dungeon (5/15) Temple (1/1) D:4 Altars: Ashenzari Cheibriados Elyvilon Fedhas Kikubaaqudgha Makhleb Okawaru Vehumet Xom Zin The Shining One Jiyva Annotations: D:1 Terence Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations You have sharp fingernails. You have a pair of horns on your head. A weak demonic guardian rushes to your aid. You are slightly more attuned to the shadows. Message History The centaur shoots an arrow. The arrow hits you! You see here an arrow. The centaur shoots an arrow. The arrow hits you! You see here 13 stones. The centaur shoots an arrow. The arrow misses you. The centaur shoots an arrow. The arrow hits you! * * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * * You see here an arrow. The centaur shoots an arrow. The arrow hits you! * * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * * The centaur shoots an arrow. The arrow hits you! * * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * * There is an escape hatch in the ceiling here. You see here 2 arrows. D - 2 arrows The centaur shoots an arrow. The arrow hits you! * * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * * D - 3 arrows (gained 1) The centaur shoots an arrow. The arrow hits you! You die... ... ..# ..# . ... .# . # #.##.###.# #.##........# #.......##..# .##########.#####..# .........##.##.....###### ## ########.##.##.##.....@.# #.. ## #.##...........((###.###.## #.......##..###...#.#...#... ##.#######..#)..(#c.#...#... # #.# #........((#...#.# # ##.## #...#...#.#.###..# # #####...# #........###.c.#.# ####.......## ####.##### ###.#.## ............## #.# #.....# .............### #.# #.....(...# .#.....#.......#####.#### #.....#..#.. .#.###.#.###.......#............#o.# .#.....#.........#.#..# ##.....# .# You could see a centaur. Vanquished Creatures A hill giant (D:5) A yak (D:3) A phantom (D:5) An ogre (D:5) A centaur zombie (D:5) A crimson imp (D:5) A jelly (D:2) 2 hounds (D:5) 4 worker ants (D:5) 6 adders A shadow imp (D:5) A giant mite (D:1) 2 worms A giant gecko (D:2) 6 oozes 11 orcs A ball python (D:3) A bat zombie (D:5) 3 giant cockroaches 12 hobgoblins 5 jackals 3 quokkas 8 bats 7 giant newts 12 goblins 11 kobolds An orc skeleton (D:4) 16 rats 121 creatures vanquished. Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills) A jelly (D:2) An orc (D:3) A kobold (D:3) 3 creatures vanquished. Vanquished Creatures (others) 5 crimson imps 2 quasits 3 iron imps 5 white imps 5 ufetubi A toadstool (D:2) 21 creatures vanquished. Grand Total: 145 creatures vanquished Notes Turn | Place | Note -------------------------------------------------------------- 0 | D:1 | Dante, the Demonspawn Fire Elementalist, began the quest for the Orb. 0 | D:1 | Reached XP level 1. HP: 13/13 MP: 3/3 348 | D:1 | Reached skill level 3 in Fire Magic 348 | D:1 | Gained mutation: A weak demonic guardian rushes to your aid. [demonic ancestry] 348 | D:1 | Reached XP level 2. HP: 13/19 MP: 0/4 626 | D:1 | Learned a level 2 spell: Throw Flame 1104 | D:1 | Reached XP level 3. HP: 21/24 MP: 0/6 1583 | D:1 | Learned a level 3 spell: Conjure Flame 1754 | D:2 | Noticed Terence 1818 | D:1 | HP: 1/24 [Terence/flail (9)] 2762 | D:2 | Gained mutation: You have sharp fingernails. [demonic ancestry] 2762 | D:2 | Reached XP level 4. HP: 30/30 MP: 2/8 3256 | D:2 | Found a viscous altar of Jiyva. 3707 | D:3 | Noticed a yak 3708 | D:3 | Gained mutation: You have a pair of small horns on your head. [demonic ancestry] 3708 | D:3 | Reached XP level 5. HP: 35/35 MP: 9/11 3765 | D:3 | Killed a yak 3765 | D:3 | Reached skill level 4 in Fire Magic 4865 | D:4 | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple. 4883 | Temple | Entered the Ecumenical Temple 4901 | Temple | Became a worshipper of Vehumet 5091 | D:4 | Gained mutation: You are slightly more attuned to the shadows. [demonic ancestry] 5091 | D:4 | Reached XP level 6. HP: 41/41 MP: 13/13 5840 | D:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon 6179 | D:5 | Gained mutation: You have a pair of horns on your head. [demonic ancestry] 6179 | D:5 | Reached XP level 7. HP: 43/46 MP: 13/17 6208 | D:5 | Noticed a hill giant 6243 | D:5 | Acquired Vehumet's first power 6243 | D:5 | Offered knowledge of Sandblast by Vehumet. 6250 | D:5 | Learned a level 5 spell: Fireball 6329 | D:5 | Killed a hill giant 6329 | D:5 | Reached skill level 5 in Fire Magic 6579 | D:5 | Reached XP level 8. HP: 52/52 MP: 19/19 6622 | D:5 | Reached skill level 5 in Conjurations 6916 | D:5 | Shot with an arrow by a centaur Action | 1- 3 | 4- 6 | 7- 9 || total -------------------------+-------+-------+-------++------- Melee: Unarmed | 4 | 1 | 1 || 6 Cast: Flame Tongue | 72 | 115 | 47 || 234 Throw Flame | 16 | 13 | 3 || 32 Conjure Flame | 1 | 12 | 6 || 19 Evoke: Wand | | 6 | || 6 Use: Potion | 2 | | || 2 Scroll | | 5 | || 5

The way I figure it, I could go along stumbling and guessing just where I'm screwing up with my casters, or I could actually just ask for feedback. I could post some of the morgue files of some of my older attempts too.

Friday, 25th April 2014, 21:56 by ElderVIII

Didn't use your blinking scroll? A D:5 centaur is dangerous to any class. Unless you know you can get the drop on them, always get away from them. That said, 3 Throw Flames is usually enough to take them out at that point.

Friday, 25th April 2014, 22:22 by tasonir

Also don't use automatic skill training - you don't really care about your stealth skill, and I generally focus on the spellcasting skills before dodging, although if you really wanted both on that isn't too terrible. It's generally best to only be training 1-2 skills at a time, though.

Friday, 25th April 2014, 22:24 by Sandman25

When playing FE you can learn from previous fights if you need more MP. 28 were too many provided you could spam level 2 Throw Flame and cast a couple of Conjure Flame per fight.
Don't rush to Fireball, Sticky Flame is a great spell and you can train Dodging at this point to deal with early Centaurs (train Stealth later if you want, though Ds is a somewhat tricky species XP-wise, it starts weak and becomes powerful later in the game because of below average aptitudes and demonspawn mutations).

Friday, 25th April 2014, 23:06 by Garrus01

Yeah, I was developing the "stealth" mutation, so I wasn't sure whether to focus on that (to take advantage of the stealth bonus) or dodging.

Training 1-2 skills at once brings up another point; I have no clue whether I should train conjurations, spellcasting, or fire magic first, so I generally just train them all at once. What order should I train them in?

Friday, 25th April 2014, 23:19 by Hopeless

tasonir wrote:Also don't use automatic skill training - you don't really care about your stealth skill, and I generally focus on the spellcasting skills before dodging, although if you really wanted both on that isn't too terrible. It's generally best to only be training 1-2 skills at a time, though.

It can be helpful at first to leave the automation on (though it quickly becomes irritating when it does stuff like training throwing, stealth and fluffy pillow making.) in my offline trunk build I added and use the "advanced optioneering.txt" function in my init.txt to open the m screen (skills) when I first start a character (0 turns spent) so that I can think about what needs changing/tweeking in my skill set to start and so that I can turn off the auto selection with /. This can be pretty helpful too.

Friday, 25th April 2014, 23:40 by NessOnett

The first thing I notice is that you don't know Sticky Flame. Which is an extremely useful spell at lower levels since you'll often have threatening things getting into melee with you before you kill them. And it's a lot of (guaranteed) damage that will often save your life.

Secondly, and this may be a preference thing, but use-identifying scrolls is usually worth it early. If you knew those scrolls of fogs were scrolls of fog(even if you were only left with 2 of them), you coulda popped one when you first saw the centaur to cut his line of sight from arrows and force him into melee with you, where he is considerably weaker(and where you can abuse sticky flame assuming you have it).

Friday, 25th April 2014, 23:42 by KoboldLord

Why were you spending turns picking up the arrows that were perforating you rather than escaping through the escape hatch or running up to the centaur and killing it? It had to shoot you eight times before you died. That was plenty of time to do something about it.

Saturday, 26th April 2014, 00:03 by and into

Yes sure the points about skill training are not incorrect but rather beside the point.

Garrus01: You had an identified potion of haste and a scroll of blinking in your inventory. An early centaur spotting you on unfavorable terrain (no way to get cover or retreat upstairs within 2 turns) is really dangerous, especially if you only got 3 AC. You should have immediately used those consumables to get out of the centaur's line of sight (LOS is reciprocal in Crawl, if you can't see it, it cannot see/shoot you).

Also outside of combat you should have used that identify scroll on some of your other consumables (your potions or scrolls) so you know what other early escape/buff items you got. Since ?teleportation was not IDed yet (I think?) I would have used the ?identify on that stack of three unknown scrolls, hoping to confirm they were ?teleportation. Finding out they were ?fog instead would have made me pretty happy still. If I had not had that ?identify, I might have read-IDed the stack of 3 scrolls anyway.

Saturday, 26th April 2014, 00:12 by Garrus01

The irony is, I made it to a set of stairs-I simply could not retreat up them. I think that was where I picked up the arrows. Generally speaking, I save the scrolls for stuff like rings and whatnot-is it better to use them on consumables instead?

Saturday, 26th April 2014, 00:18 by Hopeless

Garrus01 wrote:The irony is, I made it to a set of stairs-I simply could not retreat up them. I think that was where I picked up the arrows. Generally speaking, I save the scrolls for stuff like rings and whatnot-is it better to use them on consumables instead?

Most particularly potions which you almost never want to quaff id as it is a) dangerous due to detrimental potions and b) wasteful if you quaff good ones that don't help at the moment of the id.

Saturday, 26th April 2014, 00:23 by KoboldLord

Garrus01 wrote:The irony is, I made it to a set of stairs-I simply could not retreat up them. I think that was where I picked up the arrows. Generally speaking, I save the scrolls for stuff like rings and whatnot-is it better to use them on consumables instead?

You can use the < and > keys to go up and down stairs and escape hatches, respectively. You should not use the mouse for this task if the ambiguity between using a dungeon feature or picking up objects matters in your situation, which is the case when there is a monster shooting at you. The mouse is meant to be a convenience, but ultimately the program is just making a wild guess as to the most appropriate command for the thing you clicked on. In this case, it guessed wrong.

Saturday, 26th April 2014, 00:46 by and into

KoboldLord wrote:
Garrus01 wrote:The irony is, I made it to a set of stairs-I simply could not retreat up them. I think that was where I picked up the arrows. Generally speaking, I save the scrolls for stuff like rings and whatnot-is it better to use them on consumables instead?

You can use the < and > keys to go up and down stairs and escape hatches, respectively. You should not use the mouse for this task if the ambiguity between using a dungeon feature or picking up objects matters in your situation, which is the case when there is a monster shooting at you. The mouse is meant to be a convenience, but ultimately the program is just making a wild guess as to the most appropriate command for the thing you clicked on. In this case, it guessed wrong.

Oof, that's rough. I was wondering what the arrow gathering was all about, that makes sense now.

Saturday, 26th April 2014, 02:06 by Garrus01

Well, did much better with the next character, especially thanks to the sticky flame advice-it's my few favorite fire spell. Here's how I died:

Code:: 10100 Astaroth the Thaumaturge (level 11, -11/68 HPs) Began as a Demonspawn Fire Elementalist on Apr 25, 2014. Was an Elder of Vehumet. Mangled by a shadow (22 damage) ... on Level 10 of the Dungeon. The game lasted 02:02:08 (14459 turns). Astaroth the Thaumaturge (DsFE) Turns: 14459, Time: 02:02:08 HP -11/68 AC 5 Str 8 XL: 11 Next: 21% MP 13/26 EV 13 Int 20 God: Vehumet [****..] Gold 800 SH 0 Dex 18 Spells: 7 memorised, 9 levels left rFire . . . SeeInvis . (no weapon) rCold . . . Clarity . x - +2 robe rNeg . . . Conserve . (no shield) rPois + rCorr . (helmet restricted) rElec . rRot . r - -1 cloak {rPois} SustAb . . Spirit . n - +0 pair of gloves rMut . Warding . (no boots) Saprov . . . Stasis . (no amulet) MR ..... (no ring) y - ring of wizardry @: about to teleport, invisible, very slightly contaminated, not resistant to hostile enchantments, very stealthy A: antennae 1, hooves 1, thin skeletal structure 2, demonic guardian 2, low mp 1, nightstalker 2 a: Renounce Religion You were on level 10 of the Dungeon. You worshipped Vehumet. Vehumet was greatly pleased with you. You were hungry. You visited 2 branches of the dungeon, and saw 12 of its levels. You also visited: Ossuary. You collected 800 gold pieces. Inventory: Armour g - a +0 robe n - a +0 pair of gloves (worn) r - a -1 cloak of poison resistance (worn) x - a +2 robe (worn) J - a +1 robe of cold resistance Magical devices i - a wand of slowing (9) q - a wand of teleportation (5) z - a wand of confusion (8) {unknown} I - a wand of flame (10) Comestibles c - 5 bread rations d - an apple f - 2 meat rations B - a slice of pizza D - 15 cheeses Scrolls a - a scroll of enchant armour {unknown} e - 3 scrolls of remove curse j - a scroll of amnesia m - 3 scrolls of blinking p - 6 scrolls of teleportation t - 2 scrolls of magic mapping u - a scroll of fear v - a scroll of silence {unknown} Jewellery y - a ring of wizardry (left hand) Potions h - 2 potions of paralysis k - a potion of confusion {unknown} l - 6 potions of curing o - a potion of haste {unknown} s - 3 potions of heal wounds w - 2 potions of flight {unknown} A - a potion of cure mutation {unknown}

Any tips for improvement here? I couldn't kill the shadow fiend, and my mutation wouldn't summon my guardian buddy to help me out. On second thought, maybe it would have helped to use my scrolls of blinking, but that thing was REALLY fast, and my mutation reduced my LoS. Also, I did try that... But really guys, thanks for the sticky flame tip-I couldn't get this string of sacrificial lam-I mean, adventurers past 6 or 7th DLevel before, usually died on Fourth Level of the dungeon. If only I had been able to find the Lair, I would have considered this successful...

Saturday, 26th April 2014, 02:16 by KoboldLord

A shadow is not the same thing as a shadow fiend. Shadow fiends don't show up until much, much later in the game, and they are very unpleasant to deal with. Sticky Flame wasn't going to work because a shadow is an 'insubstantial' monster, which is to say that there's no physical body for the sticky flame to cling to. All phantom-class monsters are immune to that particular spell, but it would have been normally vulnerable to Flame Tongue and Throw Flame. Shadows like to flicker into temporary invisibility, and they get a big bonus to damage when they come out of it. Also, when you're depending on Sticky Flame watch out for shallow water, since the water will extinguish the damaging flames if your target steps in it. Mottled dragons and mottled draconians are also immune.

Saturday, 26th April 2014, 02:43 by Sandman25

Also train some Dodging, for Sticky Flame you need to be in melee range which is bad if your defenses are so low.

Saturday, 26th April 2014, 14:23 by Garrus01

Well, before I make a decision that leads to YASD for my current character, I thought I'd ask some advice on spell choice. I happened upon three spell books, both with very good spells in them, and want to make an informed choise as to what is most useful:

Code:: Inventory: Hand weapons g - a +3,+1 battleaxe (weapon) Missiles H - an arrow of flame Armour a - a +0 robe k - a +0 pair of gloves of strength (worn) E - a +0 robe (worn) Magical devices w - a wand of magic darts {zapped: 3} M - a bone wand Comestibles o - a cheese t - an apple z - 2 pears I - 4 bread rations J - 5 beef jerkies N - 2 rotting chunks of orc flesh Scrolls f - 2 scrolls of recharging i - 3 scrolls of fear j - 3 scrolls of teleportation l - a scroll labeled TREAXOAPEP m - 2 scrolls of remove curse q - a scroll labeled JUONTA GIOWO r - a scroll labeled PROUGI PREASCH s - a scroll of enchant weapon I u - a scroll labeled BENUKHL ASEDD Jewellery e - a ring of positive energy (left hand) v - a +1 ring of evasion x - a ring of magical power (right hand) K - an amulet of conservation (around neck) Potions d - a potion of curing h - an orange potion n - a slimy inky potion p - a blue potion A - a lumpy white potion B - a metallic orange potion C - 2 potions of heal wounds D - a slimy red potion L - a red potion Books b - a book of Flames Spells Type Level *Flame Tongue Conjuration/Fire 1 *Throw Flame Conjuration/Fire 2 *Conjure Flame Conjuration/Fire 3 Inner Flame Hexes/Fire 3 *Sticky Flame Conjuration/Fire 4 *Fireball Conjuration/Fire 5 c - a book of Power Spells Type Level Fulminant Prism Conjuration/Hexes 4 Iskenderun's Mystic Blast Conjuration 4 Venom Bolt Conjuration/Poison 5 Bolt of Magma Conjuration/Fire/Earth 5 Iron Shot Conjuration/Earth 6 Orb of Destruction Conjuration 7 F - a book of the Warp Spells Type Level Control Teleport Charms/Translocation 4 Phase Shift Translocation 5 Warp Weapon Charms/Translocation 5 Summon Forest Summoning/Translocation 5 Dispersal Translocation 6 Controlled Blink Translocation 7 Disjunction Translocation 8 G - a book of Unlife Spells Type Level Recall Summoning/Translocation 3 Animate Dead Necromancy 4 Control Undead Necromancy 4 Twisted Resurrection Necromancy 5 Death Channel Necromancy 6 Simulacrum Ice/Necromancy 6 Skills: + Level 0.3 Axes + Level 2.2 Dodging - Level 1.7 Stealth * Level 7.5 Spellcasting * Level 7.6 Conjurations * Level 8.2 Fire Magic You have 8 spell levels left. You know the following spells: Your Spells Type Power Failure Level Hunger a - Flame Tongue Conj/Fire ##### 1% 1 None b - Throw Flame Conj/Fire #####. 1% 2 None c - Conjure Flame Conj/Fire #####... 1% 3 #...... d - Sticky Flame Conj/Fire #####... 1% 4 ###.... e - Fireball Conj/Fire #####..... 3% 5 ####... Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations Branches: Dungeon (8/15) Temple (1/1) D:4 Lair: D:8-11 Altars: Ashenzari Dithmenos Elyvilon Fedhas Kikubaaqudgha Makhleb Nemelex Xobeh Okawaru Trog Vehumet Xom Yredelemnul Zin The Shining One Shops: D:8 = Annotations: D:6 Menkaure Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations You have sharp toenails. You are partially covered in rough black scales (AC +4, Dex -1). A demonic guardian rushes to your aid. When hurt, damage is shared between your health and your magic reserves.

I don't know whether I should choose OoD, TR, or CB. Or maybe Dispersal would be more useful. I've never even had access to any of these spells in any of my previous games, but I like the idea of permanent minions to hide behind from TR. OoD is appealing due to damage, and CB and Dispersal both appeal to me for the simple reason of getting danger away from me.

Saturday, 26th April 2014, 16:07 by Eyesburn

Fire Magic is your primary spell school so stick with it. If you find Bolt of Fire learn it.
You can get Iskenderun's Mystic Blast and/or Iron Shot for fire resistant monsters, later on you can add Orb of Destruction.
Translocation is always good to have for Ctele and Cblink, just dont overtrain it. Phase Shift is also cool to have.
If you want to branch into Necromancy start with Animate Dead, and maybe train Necromancy to ~8 points.

Saturday, 26th April 2014, 16:26 by some12fat2move

Eyesburn wrote:You can get Iskenderun's Mystic Blast and/or Iron Shot for fire resistant monsters, later on you can add Orb of Destruction.

In my opinion, Iskenderun's Mystic Blast is much better than those other two for this character.

Saturday, 26th April 2014, 16:35 by NessOnett

If you have good odds of OoD, definitely grab that. If you are too low level for that, IMB is a great intermediary. You should have something that lacks an element to deal with things that have fire resistance/immunity. OoD itself is good through endgame as (arguably) the strongest neutral spell.

Controlled Blink is one of the best spells in the game. But for now, I think your exp would be better spent elsewhere to augment your offense. If you really want something out of that book right now, keep it to cTele(which is also a great spell and requires way less investment).

As for the Book of Unlife, I never liked raising armies on an FE because you lack the ability to smite-target(until firestorm). Between fireball explosions and needing LoS, it makes life a lot more of a headache trying to play around allies than they help you. That being said, Control Undead is possibly useful as a defensive option versus particularly dangerous undead, or more likely mobs. And training necromancy at some point is relevant because they have some of the strongest endgame utility spellls in the game, specifically necromutation for casters(unless you're already an undead race).

But keep in mind that in a dedicated caster, you don't really have to make a 'choice' between these in the long run. You'll end up(if you want) with a decent amount of training in all these schools, and be able to use all these skills. So don't worry about what you want to do in the long run, the key is what is important to you right now. And right now your direct offense is your greatest asset.

Sunday, 27th April 2014, 01:46 by Garrus01

Okay, another stupid question: If I find a +12, +6 whip with antimagic and + dex on it, is it better to use that than to use a battleaxe which I already have a level in using? I just cleared the orcish mines completely, and it's one of the items on offer in one of the shops down there. I also got lucky-Vehumet offered me fire bolt, so I took advantage of the fact. I'm actually at a good place to use OoD right now, but IMB just costs 1 hunger notch so I'm using that for now instead; hunger is proving to be my greatest enemy, so I think I'll buy a ring of sustenance. Very hesitant to go back down into the lair though- I'm not sure I want to tangle with elephants just yet, and there is a catopelas down there too. I think it might be better to explore the main dungeon more for a bit, then try and dive deeper into the lair. Even if she dies now, this character is easily one of the best I've done with, right behind the orc fighter of Beogh I ran early on.

Sunday, 27th April 2014, 01:59 by KoboldLord

Don't equip an anti-magic weapon on a character that mostly attacks with damaging magic. You lose most of your mp as long as you have anti-magic equipped.

Using a melee weapon is a good idea, but if you want it to be usable in any reasonable amount of time you're going to need to turn all your other skills OFF, or most of the incoming xp will go to them instead. It's fine to leave your spell skills fallow for a bit to work on your defensive skills, too; automatic xp allocation won't decide to give your dodging skill any xp unless it sees you actually try to dodge things, and you're going to be spending most of your time trying to avoid letting things swing at you in the first place so it won't naturally decide to allocate the xp there.

A ring of sustenance will only reduce hunger caused by the passage of time. It will do absolutely nothing about your spell hunger, which isn't actually all that bad. Conveniently, most monsters are literally made out of food, so you can quickly get back whatever nutrition you lost to killing them.

Elephants are a big sack of hit points, but they aren't otherwise particularly horrible. If you have an mp-efficient means of killing, that's often your best bet. If you cast Sticky Flame on the first one to reach you, you can often retreat along an explored route around a large bunch of plants, trees, or walls and the one that is on fire will slowly burn to death and the others following behind won't be able to catch up to you. Once your initial target dies or burns out, you can then wait for the next in line to catch up, Sticky Flame it, and resume your strategic retreat through explored territory. You should make sure to feed some xp into fighting, though, since fighting skill gives you more hit points.

Sunday, 27th April 2014, 07:18 by Kismet

Garrus01 wrote:Well, before I make a decision that leads to YASD for my current character, I thought I'd ask some advice on spell choice. I happened upon three spell books, both with very good spells in them, and want to make an informed choise as to what is most useful:

Code:
Inventory: Hand weapons g - a +3,+1 battleaxe (weapon) Missiles H - an arrow of flame Armour a - a +0 robe k - a +0 pair of gloves of strength (worn) E - a +0 robe (worn) Magical devices w - a wand of magic darts {zapped: 3} M - a bone wand Comestibles o - a cheese t - an apple z - 2 pears I - 4 bread rations J - 5 beef jerkies N - 2 rotting chunks of orc flesh Scrolls f - 2 scrolls of recharging i - 3 scrolls of fear j - 3 scrolls of teleportation l - a scroll labeled TREAXOAPEP m - 2 scrolls of remove curse q - a scroll labeled JUONTA GIOWO r - a scroll labeled PROUGI PREASCH s - a scroll of enchant weapon I u - a scroll labeled BENUKHL ASEDD Jewellery e - a ring of positive energy (left hand) v - a +1 ring of evasion x - a ring of magical power (right hand) K - an amulet of conservation (around neck) Potions d - a potion of curing h - an orange potion n - a slimy inky potion p - a blue potion A - a lumpy white potion B - a metallic orange potion C - 2 potions of heal wounds D - a slimy red potion L - a red potion Books b - a book of Flames Spells Type Level *Flame Tongue Conjuration/Fire 1 *Throw Flame Conjuration/Fire 2 *Conjure Flame Conjuration/Fire 3 Inner Flame Hexes/Fire 3 *Sticky Flame Conjuration/Fire 4 *Fireball Conjuration/Fire 5 c - a book of Power Spells Type Level Fulminant Prism Conjuration/Hexes 4 Iskenderun's Mystic Blast Conjuration 4 Venom Bolt Conjuration/Poison 5 Bolt of Magma Conjuration/Fire/Earth 5 Iron Shot Conjuration/Earth 6 Orb of Destruction Conjuration 7 F - a book of the Warp Spells Type Level Control Teleport Charms/Translocation 4 Phase Shift Translocation 5 Warp Weapon Charms/Translocation 5 Summon Forest Summoning/Translocation 5 Dispersal Translocation 6 Controlled Blink Translocation 7 Disjunction Translocation 8 G - a book of Unlife Spells Type Level Recall Summoning/Translocation 3 Animate Dead Necromancy 4 Control Undead Necromancy 4 Twisted Resurrection Necromancy 5 Death Channel Necromancy 6 Simulacrum Ice/Necromancy 6 Skills: + Level 0.3 Axes + Level 2.2 Dodging - Level 1.7 Stealth * Level 7.5 Spellcasting * Level 7.6 Conjurations * Level 8.2 Fire Magic You have 8 spell levels left. You know the following spells: Your Spells Type Power Failure Level Hunger a - Flame Tongue Conj/Fire ##### 1% 1 None b - Throw Flame Conj/Fire #####. 1% 2 None c - Conjure Flame Conj/Fire #####... 1% 3 #...... d - Sticky Flame Conj/Fire #####... 1% 4 ###.... e - Fireball Conj/Fire #####..... 3% 5 ####... Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations Branches: Dungeon (8/15) Temple (1/1) D:4 Lair: D:8-11 Altars: Ashenzari Dithmenos Elyvilon Fedhas Kikubaaqudgha Makhleb Nemelex Xobeh Okawaru Trog Vehumet Xom Yredelemnul Zin The Shining One Shops: D:8 = Annotations: D:6 Menkaure Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations You have sharp toenails. You are partially covered in rough black scales (AC +4, Dex -1). A demonic guardian rushes to your aid. When hurt, damage is shared between your health and your magic reserves.

I don't know whether I should choose OoD, TR, or CB. Or maybe Dispersal would be more useful. I've never even had access to any of these spells in any of my previous games, but I like the idea of permanent minions to hide behind from TR. OoD is appealing due to damage, and CB and Dispersal both appeal to me for the simple reason of getting danger away from me.

The best spell there is animate dead.

Sunday, 27th April 2014, 17:27 by Garrus01

Well, that character died...I used a scroll of fear while my demonic guardian was active. Apparently, that turns them hostile. Eh, I suppose I wasn't ready to tackle the Shoals yet anyway. Morgue file for feedback and criticism:

Code:: 37427 Astaroth the Thaumaturge (level 13, -7/88 HPs) Began as a Demonspawn Fire Elementalist on Apr 25, 2014. Was a High Priest of Vehumet. Mangled by an ice devil (20 damage) ... summoned by the player character ... on Level 1 of the Shoals on Apr 27, 2014. The game lasted 03:55:54 (24171 turns). Astaroth the Thaumaturge (DsFE) Turns: 24171, Time: 03:55:54 HP -7/88 AC 9 Str 11 XL: 13 Next: 48% MP 0/41 EV 15 Int 22 God: Vehumet [*****.] Gold 1893 SH 0 Dex 13 Spells: 8 memorised, 6 levels left rFire . . . SeeInvis . g - +3,+1 battleaxe rCold . . . Clarity + S - +2 robe {rN+} rNeg + + . Conserve . (no shield) rPois . rCorr . (no helmet) rElec . rRot . (no cloak) SustAb . . Spirit + k - +0 pair of gloves {Str+3} rMut . Warding . (no boots) Saprov . . . Stasis . q - amulet of clarity {unknown} MR ..... x - ring of magical power e - ring of positive energy @: not resistant to hostile enchantments, fairly stealthy A: talons 2, rough black scales 1, demonic guardian 2, magic shield a: Renounce Religion You were on level 1 of the Shoals. You worshipped Vehumet. Vehumet was extremely pleased with you. You were not hungry. You visited 6 branches of the dungeon, and saw 24 of its levels. You collected 1893 gold pieces. Inventory: Hand weapons g - a +3,+1 battleaxe (weapon) T - a +2,+1 dagger W - a +0,+0 club Armour k - a +0 pair of gloves of strength (worn) E - a +0 robe S - a +2 robe of positive energy (worn) Magical devices r - a wand of lightning (8) M - a wand of polymorph (14) R - a wand of cold (3) Comestibles t - 2 apples v - 13 strawberries z - 2 pears H - 3 meat rations I - 4 bread rations J - 2 beef jerkies Scrolls f - a scroll of recharging i - 2 scrolls of fear j - 4 scrolls of teleportation l - 2 scrolls of fog m - 2 scrolls of remove curse s - 2 scrolls of enchant weapon I u - a scroll of vulnerability {unknown} y - 3 scrolls of amnesia N - 2 scrolls of summoning {unknown} O - a scroll of blinking U - 2 scrolls of enchant armour {unknown} V - a scroll of identify Y - a scroll of random uselessness {unknown} Jewellery e - a ring of positive energy (left hand) o - an uncursed ring of protection from cold q - an amulet of clarity (around neck) {unknown} x - a ring of magical power (right hand) K - an uncursed amulet of conservation Potions d - 2 potions of curing h - a potion of brilliance {unknown} n - 2 potions of resistance p - 2 potions of restore abilities {unknown} w - a potion of flight {unknown} A - a potion of mutation {unknown} B - a potion of invisibility {unknown} C - 3 potions of heal wounds D - a potion of magic {unknown} L - 4 potions of agility P - a potion of poison {unknown} Q - 2 potions of haste {unknown} Z - a potion of berserk rage {unknown} Books a - the Handbook of Captivating Talismans (You found it on level 4 of the Lair of Beasts) Spells Type Level Repel Missiles Charms/Air 2 Sure Blade Hexes/Charms 2 Regeneration Charms/Necromancy 3 Poison Weapon Charms/Poison 3 Spectral Weapon Hexes/Charms 3 b - a book of Flames Spells Type Level *Flame Tongue Conjuration/Fire 1 *Throw Flame Conjuration/Fire 2 *Conjure Flame Conjuration/Fire 3 Inner Flame Hexes/Fire 3 *Sticky Flame Conjuration/Fire 4 *Fireball Conjuration/Fire 5 c - a book of Power Spells Type Level Fulminant Prism Conjuration/Hexes 4 *Iskenderun's Mystic Blast Conjuration 4 Venom Bolt Conjuration/Poison 5 Bolt of Magma Conjuration/Fire/Earth 5 Iron Shot Conjuration/Earth 6 Orb of Destruction Conjuration 7 F - a book of the Warp Spells Type Level *Control Teleport Charms/Translocation 4 Phase Shift Translocation 5 Warp Weapon Charms/Translocation 5 Summon Forest Summoning/Translocation 5 Dispersal Translocation 6 Controlled Blink Translocation 7 Disjunction Translocation 8 G - a book of Unlife Spells Type Level Recall Summoning/Translocation 3 Animate Dead Necromancy 4 Control Undead Necromancy 4 Twisted Resurrection Necromancy 5 Death Channel Necromancy 6 Simulacrum Ice/Necromancy 6 Carrion X - a blink frog skeleton Skills: * Level 3.8 Fighting - Level 1.8 Axes - Level 6.3 Dodging - Level 1.7 Stealth + Level 11.7 Spellcasting - Level 11.6 Conjurations Level 2.1 Necromancy * Level 7.3 Translocations - Level 10.5 Fire Magic You had 6 spell levels left. You knew the following spells: Your Spells Type Power Failure Level Hunger a - Flame Tongue Conj/Fire ##### 1% 1 None b - Throw Flame Conj/Fire ###### 1% 2 None c - Conjure Flame Conj/Fire ######.. 1% 3 None d - Sticky Flame Conj/Fire ######.. 1% 4 None e - Fireball Conj/Fire ######.... 1% 5 ###.... f - Control Teleport Chrm/Tloc ####...... 12% 4 None g - Iskenderun's Mystic Conj ######.. 1% 4 None h - Bolt of Fire Conj/Fire ######.... 2% 6 #####.. Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations Branches: Dungeon (12/15) Temple (1/1) D:4 Orc (4/4) D:9 Elf (1/3) Orc:4 Lair (5/8) D:11 Shoals (1/5) Lair:5 Swamp: Lair:3-6 Snake: Lair:3-6 Spider: Lair:3-6 Altars: Ashenzari Cheibriados Dithmenos Elyvilon Fedhas Kikubaaqudgha Makhleb Nemelex Xobeh Okawaru Sif Muna Trog Vehumet Xom Yredelemnul Zin The Shining One Beogh Shops: D:8 = Orc:2 = Orc:4 *((( Annotations: D:6 Menkaure Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations You have razor-sharp toenails. You are partially covered in rough black scales (AC +4, Dex -1). A demonic guardian rushes to your aid. When hurt, damage is shared between your health and your magic reserves. Message History Orders for allies: a - Attack new target. p - Attack previous target. r - Retreat! s - Stop attacking. w - Wait here. f - Follow me. Anything else - Stay silent. Gang up on whom? Press: ? - help, Dir - move target cursor, f - merfolk, p - manticore Aim: a merfolk, wielding a trident (severely wounded) Attack! The merfolk hits you from afar with a trident! The ice devil hits you. The ice devil freezes you! * * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * * As you read the scroll of fear, it crumbles to dust. You assume a fearsome visage. The merfolk looks frightened! The manticore looks frightened! The ice devil is unaffected. The manticore flicks its tail! The volley of spikes misses you. The volley of spikes skewers the ice devil. The ice devil hits you but does no damage. The ice devil hits you. * * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * * The ice devil freezes you! You die... ˜˜˜ ˜˜˜˜˜˜˜˜˜ ˜˜˜˜˜˜˜˜˜˜˜ ˜˜˜˜˜˜˜˜˜˜˜˜˜ P˜˜˜˜˜˜˜˜˜˜˜˜˜˜ PP˜P˜˜˜˜˜˜˜˜˜˜˜ ˜˜PP˜˜˜˜˜˜˜˜˜˜˜ ˜PPPP˜˜˜˜˜˜˜˜˜˜˜˜ P˜P˜P˜..@.(..)˜˜˜ ˜...˜m.3.....H˜˜˜ >..............˜˜ ...(....#.....˜ ..)..#####..... ..... ..... #.. ..% .. .. You could see an ice devil, a merfolk (fleeing) and a manticore (fleeing). Vanquished Creatures The ghost of Tiggy the Grappler, a powerful TrFi of Okawaru (Lair:4) A hydra (Lair:1) An iron troll (D:9) An ice devil (Orc:2) 6 orc knights (Orc:4) A manticore (Lair:5) 3 orc sorcerers 2 griffons (Lair:5) A sixfirhy (Lair:4) 3 black mambas 4 elephants A mermaid (Shoals:1) A feature mimic (D:11) Psyche (Orc:3) 6 spiny frogs A fire drake (Lair:3) 3 trolls 3 komodo dragons 10 blink frogs A basilisk (Lair:4) 3 wyverns A hill giant zombie (D:11) 7 hippogriffs 11 yaks 3 wargs (Orc:4) 2 hungry ghosts (D:9) 5 wolves (Lair:5) 2 necrophages 11 water moccasins 2 black bears 9 porcupines 30 orc warriors 6 ogres A sky beast (D:7) 4 crocodiles 2 giant goldfish (Lair:2) 4 ice beasts A boring beetle (Lair:4) 3 phantoms 3 big kobolds 3 centaurs Sigmund (D:7) Duvessa (D:6) 6 giant slugs A cyclops zombie (D:8) Blork the orc (D:4) 14 giant frogs A giant slug zombie (D:11) 3 scorpions 7 wights 3 killer bees (D:7) 3 quasits 4 crimson imps Dowan (D:6) 10 hounds A goliath beetle (D:7) 8 jellies 17 orc priests 5 iguanas 19 orc wizards 6 worker ants A killer bee zombie (D:10) 9 ogre zombies A big kobold skeleton (D:5) 2 ogre skeletons A hound skeleton (D:11) 18 adders 3 gnolls (D:7) 66 green rats A giant mite (D:1) 4 worms An iguana zombie (D:5) 7 orc skeletons 7 giant geckos An ooze (D:3) 162 orcs 23 bats 16 goblins 14 hobgoblins 34 jackals 24 kobolds 10 quokkas A ball python (D:6) 2 giant cockroaches 7 giant newts 2 goblin skeletons 3 goblin zombies (D:9) A hobgoblin skeleton (D:9) 3 hobgoblin zombies (D:9) 18 orc zombies A quokka zombie (D:8) 19 rats A rat skeleton (D:4) A ballistomycete (D:11) 2 plants (D:11) 742 creatures vanquished. Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills) A reaper (D:9) Snorg (Orc:1) Joseph (D:7) 4 orc knights (Orc:4) An elephant (Lair:4) A gargoyle (D:9) 2 spiny frogs A merfolk (Shoals:1) 3 blink frogs (Lair:2) Prince Ribbit (D:6) A basilisk (Lair:1) 11 yaks An orc warrior (Orc:1) An ogre (D:4) A quasit (D:3) An orc priest (Orc:1) 4 orcs A goblin (Orc:2) A jackal (Lair:3) 38 creatures vanquished. Vanquished Creatures (others) 8 soul eaters 4 sun demons 5 ice devils 5 sixfirhies 8 smoke demons 2 quasits 3 crimson imps 5 iron imps 2 white imps 2 ufetubi (D:3) A jackal (Lair:3) A giant spore (D:11) A ballistomycete (D:11) 47 creatures vanquished. Grand Total: 827 creatures vanquished Notes Turn | Place | Note -------------------------------------------------------------- 0 | D:1 | Astaroth, the Demonspawn Fire Elementalist, began the quest for the Orb. 0 | D:1 | Reached XP level 1. HP: 13/13 MP: 3/3 247 | D:1 | Gained mutation: You are partially covered in rough black scales (AC +4, Dex -1). [demonic ancestry] 247 | D:1 | Reached XP level 2. HP: 14/19 MP: 0/4 310 | D:1 | Reached skill level 3 in Fire Magic 599 | D:1 | Reached XP level 3. HP: 24/24 MP: 4/6 734 | D:2 | Learned a level 2 spell: Throw Flame 738 | D:2 | Learned a level 3 spell: Conjure Flame 1144 | D:2 | Found a sparkling altar of Nemelex Xobeh. 1200 | D:2 | Gained mutation: A weak demonic guardian rushes to your aid. [demonic ancestry] 1200 | D:2 | Reached XP level 4. HP: 30/30 MP: 1/8 1274 | D:2 | Found a blossoming altar of Fedhas. 1732 | D:3 | Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon. 1747 | D:3 | Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon. 1756 | D:3 | Found a basalt altar of Yredelemnul. 1953 | D:3 | Reached skill level 4 in Fire Magic 2062 | D:3 | Reached XP level 5. HP: 18/35 MP: 3/11 2225 | D:3 | Learned a level 4 spell: Sticky Flame 2480 | D:4 | Noticed Blork the orc 2521 | D:4 | Noticed an ogre 2580 | D:4 | Noticed a phantom 2770 | D:4 | Killed Blork the orc 2891 | D:4 | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple. 2902 | Temple | Entered the Ecumenical Temple 2934 | Temple | Became a worshipper of Vehumet 3158 | D:4 | Gained mutation: A demonic guardian rushes to your aid. [demonic ancestry] 3158 | D:4 | Reached XP level 6. HP: 41/41 MP: 7/13 3578 | D:4 | Killed an ogre 3657 | D:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon 3849 | D:5 | Found a shadowy altar of Dithmenos. 3971 | D:5 | Reached skill level 5 in Fire Magic 3973 | D:5 | Gained mutation: You have sharp toenails. [demonic ancestry] 3973 | D:5 | Reached XP level 7. HP: 46/46 MP: 17/17 4127 | D:5 | Acquired Vehumet's first power 4127 | D:5 | Offered knowledge of Shock by Vehumet. 4378 | D:5 | Learned a level 5 spell: Fireball 4517 | D:6 | Found a glowing golden altar of the Shining One. 4517 | D:6 | Noticed an angel 4541 | D:6 | Noticed Prince Ribbit 4546 | D:6 | Killed Prince Ribbit 4719 | D:6 | Reached skill level 5 in Spellcasting 4934 | D:6 | Noticed Dowan 4948 | D:6 | Killed Dowan 4948 | D:6 | Reached XP level 8. HP: 30/52 MP: 20/20 4965 | D:6 | Noticed Duvessa 5055 | D:6 | Killed Duvessa 5103 | D:6 | Reached skill level 5 in Conjurations 5103 | D:6 | Reached skill level 6 in Fire Magic 5134 | D:6 | Found a shattered altar of Ashenzari. 5416 | D:6 | Noticed Menkaure 5570 | D:6 | Offered knowledge of Sandblast by Vehumet. 5933 | D:7 | Noticed Sigmund 5974 | D:7 | Killed Sigmund 6034 | D:7 | Noticed Joseph 6041 | D:7 | Killed Joseph 6041 | D:7 | Reached skill level 7 in Fire Magic 6041 | D:7 | Gained mutation: When hurt, damage is shared between your health and your magic reserves. [demonic ancestry] 6041 | D:7 | Reached XP level 9. HP: 38/57 MP: 23/23 7074 | D:8 | Reached skill level 8 in Fire Magic 7398 | D:8 | Found Kleuggez's Jewellery Boutique. 7551 | D:8 | Offered knowledge of Static Discharge by Vehumet. 7865 | D:8 | Acquired Vehumet's second power 7962 | D:9 | Noticed a gargoyle 7968 | D:9 | Killed a gargoyle 8002 | D:9 | Gained mutation: You have razor-sharp toenails. [demonic ancestry] 8002 | D:9 | Reached XP level 10. HP: 63/63 MP: 25/25 8022 | D:9 | Reached skill level 1 in Axes 8054 | D:9 | Learned a level 4 spell: Control Teleport 8059 | D:9 | Learned a level 4 spell: Animate Dead 8059 | D:9 | Noticed a reaper 8063 | D:9 | Killed a reaper 8211 | D:9 | Found a snail-covered altar of Cheibriados. 8428 | D:9 | Offered knowledge of Airstrike by Vehumet. 8621 | D:9 | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines. 8704 | D:9 | Acquired Vehumet's third power 8735 | D:9 | Offered knowledge of Bolt of Draining by Vehumet. 8782 | D:9 | Reached skill level 1 in Translocations 9283 | D:9 | Found a deep blue altar of Sif Muna. 10263 | D:10 | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon 10304 | D:10 | Reached skill level 9 in Fire Magic 10780 | D:10 | Got a pair of ancient boots 10783 | D:10 | Identified the cursed -3 pair of boots of a wizard's laboratory {Dex+1 Stlth++} (You found it on level 10 of the Dungeon) 10892 | D:10 | You fall through a shaft for 2 floors! 11000 | D:11 | Reached skill level 1 in Necromancy 11304 | D:11 | Found a staircase to the Lair. 11497 | Lair:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts 11579 | Lair:1 | Offered knowledge of Spellforged Servitor by Vehumet. 11625 | Lair:1 | Reached XP level 11. HP: 68/68 MP: 29/29 11792 | Lair:1 | Learned a level 4 spell: Iskenderun's Mystic Blast 11836 | Lair:1 | Noticed a seven-headed hydra 11861 | Lair:1 | Killed a seven-headed hydra 12353 | Lair:2 | Reached skill level 10 in Conjurations 13363 | Lair:3 | Noticed a catoblepas 13484 | Lair:3 | Reached skill level 10 in Spellcasting 13738 | Lair:3 | Offered knowledge of Poison Arrow by Vehumet. 14667 | D:11 | Reached XP level 12. HP: 71/74 MP: 30/30 14995 | Orc:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Orcish Mines 15026 | Orc:1 | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh. 15029 | Orc:1 | Noticed Snorg 15040 | Orc:1 | Killed Snorg 15856 | Orc:2 | Reached skill level 5 in Translocations 15930 | Orc:2 | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh. 16045 | Orc:2 | Found Thy Meiwk's Jewellery Shoppe. 16091 | Orc:2 | Offered knowledge of Bolt of Fire by Vehumet. 16105 | Orc:2 | Learned a level 6 spell: Bolt of Fire 16251 | Orc:3 | Noticed Psyche 16264 | Orc:3 | Reached skill level 11 in Conjurations 16276 | Orc:3 | Killed Psyche 16828 | Orc:4 | Entered Level 4 of the Orcish Mines 16897 | Orc:4 | Found a staircase to the Elven Halls. 17500 | Orc:4 | Reached skill level 10 in Fire Magic 18000 | Orc:4 | Found Singaid's General Store. 18000 | Orc:4 | Found Phuvy's Weapon Emporium. 18743 | Orc:4 | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh. 19603 | Orc:4 | Found Trezem's Weapon Emporium. 19603 | Orc:4 | Found Claugg's Weapon Boutique. 20151 | Elf:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Elven Halls 21666 | Lair:3 | Reached skill level 1 in Fighting 21993 | Lair:3 | Reached XP level 13. HP: 82/82 MP: 32/32 22135 | Lair:4 | Identified the Handbook of Captivating Talismans 22167 | Lair:4 | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging 22630 | Lair:4 | Noticed Tiggy's ghost (powerful TrFi) 22704 | Lair:4 | Killed Tiggy's ghost 23106 | Lair:5 | Offered knowledge of Iskenderun's Battlesphere by Vehumet. 23462 | Lair:5 | Found a staircase to the Shoals. 24155 | Shoals:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Shoals 24171 | Shoals:1 | Mangled by an ice devil Action | 1- 3 | 4- 6 | 7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 || total -------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++------- Melee: Unarmed | | 3 | | | || 3 Battleaxe | | | 90 | 88 | 5 || 183 Cast: Flame Tongue | 64 | 83 | 92 | 477 | 83 || 799 Throw Flame | 3 | 4 | 46 | 193 | 38 || 284 Conjure Flame | | 4 | 9 | 20 | 1 || 34 Sticky Flame | | 10 | 31 | 101 | 35 || 177 Fireball | | | 10 | 78 | 13 || 101 Iskenderun's Myst | | | | 90 | 34 || 124 Bolt of Fire | | | | 13 | 1 || 14 Evoke: Wand | | | 1 | 3 | 2 || 6 Use: Scroll | | 6 | 2 | 12 | 2 || 22 Potion | | | 2 | 1 | || 3 Stab: Distracted | | | | 1 | || 1

Edit: Woops, wrong file before. And I think that maybe I accidentally hit my guardian with a fireball, judging from the logs. Never got a warning though...

Sunday, 27th April 2014, 21:42 by Garrus01

New character, here are the stats-I made some attempt to clean up the log file. Do wish I had more desirable facets on this one, but iridescent scales gives me great AC so on the whole I can't complain.

Code:: Izananmi the Thaumaturge (DsFE) Turns: 15487, Time: 02:09:23 HP 82/82 AC 20 Str 10 XL: 12 Next: 22% MP 40/40 EV 12 Int 22 God: Vehumet [****..] Gold 444 SH 0 Dex 12 Spells: 5 memorised, 19 levels left rFire . . . SeeInvis . H - +3,+2 flail (protect) rCold . . . Clarity . n - +0 robe rNeg . . . Conserve . (no shield) rPois + rCorr . (no helmet) rElec . rRot . C - +2 cloak SustAb . . Spirit . (no gloves) rMut . Warding . L - +1 pair of boots {Stlth+} Gourm + Stasis . i - amulet of the gourmand MR ..... M - ring of poison resistance y - ring of magical power @: not resistant to hostile enchantments, very stealthy A: claws 1, iridescent scales 3, clever 1, clumsy 1, nightstalker 2, powered by pain 1 a: Renounce Religion You are on level 2 of the Lair of Beasts. You worship Vehumet. Vehumet is greatly pleased with you. You are not hungry. You have visited 3 branches of the dungeon, and seen 14 of its levels. You have also visited: Ossuary. You have collected 695 gold pieces. You have spent 251 gold pieces at shops. Inventory: Hand weapons H - a +3,+2 flail of protection (weapon) Armour n - a +0 robe (worn) C - a +2 cloak (worn) L - a +1 pair of boots of stealth (worn) Magical devices k - a wand of paralysis {recharged} q - a wand of frost {zapped: 2} Comestibles c - 5 bread rations f - a pear j - 7 meat rations l - 8 sultanas o - a honeycomb r - an apricot t - a choko u - 4 strawberries D - 6 grapes F - 2 beef jerkies I - 8 cheeses P - an apple R - a rotting chunk of yak flesh Scrolls a - 2 scrolls of enchant armour e - 8 scrolls of remove curse g - 6 scrolls of amnesia h - a scroll labeled NASONA KHELEX v - 7 scrolls of teleportation w - a scroll of magic mapping x - 2 scrolls of recharging E - a scroll labeled URRUNN AMUT K - 3 scrolls labeled CAINIM LEOTE N - a scroll labeled GEIRAO CAEF Jewellery i - an amulet of the gourmand (around neck) y - a ring of magical power (left claw) B - a +1 ring of evasion M - a ring of poison resistance (right claw) O - an uncursed ring of protection from fire T - a ring of protection from fire Potions d - a potion of resistance m - 6 potions of curing p - a potion of heal wounds z - 3 potions of might A - 2 potions of lignification G - a green potion J - a potion of haste Q - a smoky yellow potion Books b - a book of Flames Spells Type Level *Flame Tongue Conjuration/Fire 1 *Throw Flame Conjuration/Fire 2 *Conjure Flame Conjuration/Fire 3 Inner Flame Hexes/Fire 3 *Sticky Flame Conjuration/Fire 4 *Fireball Conjuration/Fire 5 s - a book of Annihilations {highlevel} Spells Type Level Poison Arrow Conjuration/Poison 6 Chain Lightning Conjuration/Air 8 Lehudib's Crystal Spear Conjuration/Earth 8 Glaciate Conjuration/Ice 9 Fire Storm Conjuration/Fire 9 S - a book of the Sky Spells Type Level Flight Charms/Air 3 Airstrike Air 4 Silence Hexes/Air 5 Deflect Missiles Charms/Air 6 Conjure Ball Lightning Conjuration/Air 6 Tornado Air 9 Skills: * Level 3.6 Fighting - Level 0.5 Maces & Flails - Level 1.7 Dodging - Level 1.7 Stealth * Level 11.5 Spellcasting + Level 10.4 Conjurations * Level 10.9 Fire Magic You have 19 spell levels left. You know the following spells: Your Spells Type Power Failure Level Hunger a - Flame Tongue Conj/Fire ##### 1% 1 None b - Throw Flame Conj/Fire ###### 1% 2 None c - Conjure Flame Conj/Fire ######.. 1% 3 None d - Sticky Flame Conj/Fire ######.. 1% 4 None e - Fireball Conj/Fire ######.... 1% 5 ###.... Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations Branches: Dungeon (11/15) Temple (1/1) D:5 Lair (2/8) D:11 Orc: D:9-12 Altars: Ashenzari Cheibriados Dithmenos Elyvilon Fedhas Kikubaaqudgha Nemelex Xobeh Okawaru Sif Muna Trog Vehumet Xom The Shining One Shops: D:6 * D:7 %%} D:10 [ Portals: Trove: D:11 (give 17 potions of curing) Annotations: D:8 Joseph D:10 Tiggy's ghost, powerful TrFi D:11 Josephine Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations You have sharp fingernails. You are completely covered in iridescent scales (AC +8). You are significantly more attuned to the shadows. You sometimes gain a little power by taking damage. Your mind is acute. (Int +2) You are clumsy. (Dex -2) Grand Total: 449 creatures vanquished

Joseph and Josephine are brutal-I only barely escaped from them alive. I won't be challenging either until I've been able to get at least one rune, and preferably not until I have Crystal Spear or Fire Storm. Not sure if I should bother getting anything from the book of air, but I am wondering if I should acquire that battlesphere spell that is being offered to me. Is the battlesphere worth it? Again, thanks for all the advice you've given me so far-without it, I don't think I would have progressed to the point where getting to Lair is starting to become routine.

Sunday, 27th April 2014, 22:30 by and into

You have all spells at 1% failure, and 19 spell levels left. You can stop training spell casting, fire magic, and conjurations. You are good there for a while.

Do you have book of air stashed somewhere, or did you mean the book of sky in your inventory? If you only have the book of sky, then yes, I wouldn't recommend learning anything out of it right now (later on, perhaps). If you do have the book of air, then getting repel missiles and swiftness from that book is a good idea, and getting a bit of charms and air so their failure rate is low-ish (won't take much). And if you get those two spells you might as well pick up flight.

I'd train fighting to ~8 and then get some dodging. Yes, you have iridescent scales and good AC overall, but you will put on those levels in dodging fast. Getting about 9 or 10 in dodging will not go amiss. (Plus with some investment in dodging you can eventually transition away from a flail of protection and actually get a melee weapon that will help you out in melee.) If you didn't have iridescent scales I'd recommend more dodging, but those scales provide nice protection.

After that I would memorize poison arrow and get about 8 levels in poison. For a "standard" 3-rune game, poison arrow is for most characters the best single-target conjuration. Crazy damage. Note that with nightstalker iron shot and crystal spear have (or will have) "max range" as far as you are concerned, which is nice.

If you aren't going to use those enchant armor scrolls right now, stash them somewhere. In general you shouldn't carry strategic consumables around with you (that is, consumables that are not useful to you in the heat of battle). I'd recommend CTRL+f then type robe&&ego and hit enter, it will search for any glowing/runed robes that your character has seen. Those might have egos on them. Do a similar search for leather&&ego. There might be some +1 or +2 robes, or a robe with a great resistance like MR+ on it. Do a CTRL+f for helmet and gloves also, if any have dropped they will show up and you can autotravel to them.

If a hat/cap/helmet is available that isn't at full enchantment (+2) I would use those scrolls of enchant armor to bring up their +s, and wear them. If a robe of MR+, archmage, resistance, rF+, or rC+ has generated you should seek to fully enchant that. If a leather armor of MR+, rF+, rC+, or rPois has dropped, that would also be worth improving with your ?enchant armor. Robes max out at +2 enchantment, leather armor at +3.

Good luck!

Sunday, 27th April 2014, 22:57 by Berlioz

Garrus01 wrote:Joseph and Josephine are brutal-I only barely escaped from them alive. I won't be challenging either until I've been able to get at least one rune, and preferably not until I have Crystal Spear or Fire Storm. Not sure if I should bother getting anything from the book of air, but I am wondering if I should acquire that battlesphere spell that is being offered to me. Is the battlesphere worth it? Again, thanks for all the advice you've given me so far-without it, I don't think I would have progressed to the point where getting to Lair is starting to become routine.

Battlesphere does nice damage and is very mana efficient. Plus it blocks missiles and spells, while you can cast right through it. Later on it loses its usefullness though and you don't really need it, your spells are powerful enough.
First order of business should be fighting and dodging, more HP and EV is always good!

Poison arrow is very powerful and has max range. LCS is extremely strong, but needs more investment, I would wait with that.
You should probably get some charms for deflect missiles (from your sky book), it will save your skin. Have it up all the time! You need charms for haste anyway.
As strong as firestorm is, getting it online should have low priority. If you put everything in conj/fire you will lack defences.

If you like sticky flames, try it on a herd of sheep. Lots of fun!

Sunday, 27th April 2014, 23:06 by Kismet

Garrus01 wrote:New character, here are the stats-I made some attempt to clean up the log file. Do wish I had more desirable facets on this one, but iridescent scales gives me great AC so on the whole I can't complain.

Code:
Izananmi the Thaumaturge (DsFE) Turns: 15487, Time: 02:09:23 HP 82/82 AC 20 Str 10 XL: 12 Next: 22% MP 40/40 EV 12 Int 22 God: Vehumet [****..] Gold 444 SH 0 Dex 12 Spells: 5 memorised, 19 levels left rFire . . . SeeInvis . H - +3,+2 flail (protect) rCold . . . Clarity . n - +0 robe rNeg . . . Conserve . (no shield) rPois + rCorr . (no helmet) rElec . rRot . C - +2 cloak SustAb . . Spirit . (no gloves) rMut . Warding . L - +1 pair of boots {Stlth+} Gourm + Stasis . i - amulet of the gourmand MR ..... M - ring of poison resistance y - ring of magical power @: not resistant to hostile enchantments, very stealthy A: claws 1, iridescent scales 3, clever 1, clumsy 1, nightstalker 2, powered by pain 1 a: Renounce Religion You are on level 2 of the Lair of Beasts. You worship Vehumet. Vehumet is greatly pleased with you. You are not hungry. You have visited 3 branches of the dungeon, and seen 14 of its levels. You have also visited: Ossuary. You have collected 695 gold pieces. You have spent 251 gold pieces at shops. Inventory: Hand weapons H - a +3,+2 flail of protection (weapon) Armour n - a +0 robe (worn) C - a +2 cloak (worn) L - a +1 pair of boots of stealth (worn) Magical devices k - a wand of paralysis {recharged} q - a wand of frost {zapped: 2} Comestibles c - 5 bread rations f - a pear j - 7 meat rations l - 8 sultanas o - a honeycomb r - an apricot t - a choko u - 4 strawberries D - 6 grapes F - 2 beef jerkies I - 8 cheeses P - an apple R - a rotting chunk of yak flesh Scrolls a - 2 scrolls of enchant armour e - 8 scrolls of remove curse g - 6 scrolls of amnesia h - a scroll labeled NASONA KHELEX v - 7 scrolls of teleportation w - a scroll of magic mapping x - 2 scrolls of recharging E - a scroll labeled URRUNN AMUT K - 3 scrolls labeled CAINIM LEOTE N - a scroll labeled GEIRAO CAEF Jewellery i - an amulet of the gourmand (around neck) y - a ring of magical power (left claw) B - a +1 ring of evasion M - a ring of poison resistance (right claw) O - an uncursed ring of protection from fire T - a ring of protection from fire Potions d - a potion of resistance m - 6 potions of curing p - a potion of heal wounds z - 3 potions of might A - 2 potions of lignification G - a green potion J - a potion of haste Q - a smoky yellow potion Books b - a book of Flames Spells Type Level *Flame Tongue Conjuration/Fire 1 *Throw Flame Conjuration/Fire 2 *Conjure Flame Conjuration/Fire 3 Inner Flame Hexes/Fire 3 *Sticky Flame Conjuration/Fire 4 *Fireball Conjuration/Fire 5 s - a book of Annihilations {highlevel} Spells Type Level Poison Arrow Conjuration/Poison 6 Chain Lightning Conjuration/Air 8 Lehudib's Crystal Spear Conjuration/Earth 8 Glaciate Conjuration/Ice 9 Fire Storm Conjuration/Fire 9 S - a book of the Sky Spells Type Level Flight Charms/Air 3 Airstrike Air 4 Silence Hexes/Air 5 Deflect Missiles Charms/Air 6 Conjure Ball Lightning Conjuration/Air 6 Tornado Air 9 Skills: * Level 3.6 Fighting - Level 0.5 Maces & Flails - Level 1.7 Dodging - Level 1.7 Stealth * Level 11.5 Spellcasting + Level 10.4 Conjurations * Level 10.9 Fire Magic You have 19 spell levels left. You know the following spells: Your Spells Type Power Failure Level Hunger a - Flame Tongue Conj/Fire ##### 1% 1 None b - Throw Flame Conj/Fire ###### 1% 2 None c - Conjure Flame Conj/Fire ######.. 1% 3 None d - Sticky Flame Conj/Fire ######.. 1% 4 None e - Fireball Conj/Fire ######.... 1% 5 ###.... Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations Branches: Dungeon (11/15) Temple (1/1) D:5 Lair (2/8) D:11 Orc: D:9-12 Altars: Ashenzari Cheibriados Dithmenos Elyvilon Fedhas Kikubaaqudgha Nemelex Xobeh Okawaru Sif Muna Trog Vehumet Xom The Shining One Shops: D:6 * D:7 %%} D:10 [ Portals: Trove: D:11 (give 17 potions of curing) Annotations: D:8 Joseph D:10 Tiggy's ghost, powerful TrFi D:11 Josephine Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations You have sharp fingernails. You are completely covered in iridescent scales (AC +8). You are significantly more attuned to the shadows. You sometimes gain a little power by taking damage. Your mind is acute. (Int +2) You are clumsy. (Dex -2) Grand Total: 449 creatures vanquished

Joseph and Josephine are brutal-I only barely escaped from them alive. I won't be challenging either until I've been able to get at least one rune, and preferably not until I have Crystal Spear or Fire Storm. Not sure if I should bother getting anything from the book of air, but I am wondering if I should acquire that battlesphere spell that is being offered to me. Is the battlesphere worth it? Again, thanks for all the advice you've given me so far-without it, I don't think I would have progressed to the point where getting to Lair is starting to become routine.

You carry lots of food. Do you have problems with hunger management? Do you typically fight by shooting 5 fireballs and then running away if the monster hasn't died yet?

Sunday, 27th April 2014, 23:25 by Garrus01

I habitually carry quite a bit of food, mostly out of paranoia. But specifically I am about to enter a Labyrinth, and figure I will be burning through a chunk of that trying to get out. I typically use fireball when the target absolutely, positively MUST die, is invisible, or against swarms that I cannot be bothered into taking out one at a time.

Really now, that's interesting...where could I find a herd of sheep...

Hmm, I don't have any available robes or leather with enchantments, period, even with a search for just "ego". Been hoping to find a dragon armor, maybe fire dragon armor. Looking at what people are saying about weapons though, I DO have a lajatang lying around on D:3.... I left it there because I thought it was just a random weapon. Maybe once I get dodging up I should grab it and train its skill?

Monday, 28th April 2014, 01:15 by reaver

Garrus01 wrote:I habitually carry quite a bit of food, mostly out of paranoia. But specifically I am about to enter a Labyrinth, and figure I will be burning through a chunk of that trying to get out.

I'm pretty sure you can enter a Labyrinth with 3 rations and never ever have to even think about food.

Just pick one of the bigger stacks (Example: meat rations) and carry only that.

Monday, 28th April 2014, 02:10 by Garrus01

Yeah, just found that out. Feel a bit foolish in retrospect, but since my first hill orc fighter died screaming to a pack of spear-wielding gnolls, I've been learning that discretion is ALWAYS the better part of valour, along with little facts like "Scrolls of Fog and Fear are your friends". On the upside, that labyrinth had a Book of Death in the trove, along with Muan's Catalogue of stones. The later seems fairly useless to me, but I think that Dispel Undead or Sublimation of Blood may be useful. Vehumet's Offered Lee's Rapid Deconstruction, but I really don't want to train Earth Magic just for one spell. Am considering the necromancy angle because I found a Trove, although it wants 16 potions of curing. Hoping for a book or jewelry trove.

And I just realized that the Book of Death means that I theoretically have access to the Pain brand...Definitely going to follow advice and get myself Poison Arrow though, once I get fighting and Dodge trained up. The Swamps are going to be hell without something other than fire, and I have no desire to get close enough to a Hydra to SF it. Besides, the other branch I've found is the Spider Lair.

Monday, 28th April 2014, 19:44 by kenmtraveller

Definitely pick up Sublimation of Blood, it's the best way to get MP back, and takes hardly any skill investment.
That book also has Bolt of Draining, I think it's a great spell now that it got bounced back to lvl 5... you can shoot right through your animated skeletons and zombies, which means you can have a huge mass of animated critters between you and the stuff that's trying to kill you.

Tuesday, 29th April 2014, 02:25 by Garrus01

Is it worth it for me to take the ice dragon hide i recently, ahem, "acquired" from its previous inhabitant and enchant it, or should I hold out for another dragon armor? The impression I get is that fire resistance is much more useful than cold resistance, but I do have two rings of fire resistance I can make use of. I would only really want to use one of them though, as my ring of wizardry is useful. I do already have a fire-resist robe though. I have the swamp, so I could potentially grab some swamp dragon hides instead.

Unfortunately, the character who had access to reanimated minions is deader than a door nail, thanks to my accidentally pissing off her demonic guardian somehow. So I don't have stuff to hide behind at the moment.

As for the rest, once I get poison arrow online I am wondering whether I should train Air magic or Earth Magic. From what I understand I should choose one over the other, and the final spells for both look very tempting. Which is "better" from a utility and damage perspective?

Tuesday, 29th April 2014, 03:23 by KoboldLord

Fire resistance is more important than cold resistance because of orbs of fire, which is one specific monster you encounter at the very end of the game that does crazy-bananas fire damage. This is not a thing that you should be worried about right now. Other than that, they're pretty close to the same because most sources of one have a duplicate source of the other, e.g. fire vs. frost giants. As long as you have enough fire resistance available to you that you can eliminate the rF- when you're walking around and can hot-swap in another source to be rF+ when you face a dangerous fire-user, you don't need to worry too much. Even if you can only eliminate the rF-, you're still probably okay as long as you're careful, because you can just treat strong fire monsters with extreme caution.

Don't walk around with rF- or rC-, though, because base damage for attacks from top-end monsters is usually designed in such a way that the player being hit on a vulnerability by said top-end monster will be lethal in no more than two solid hits.

I wouldn't bother investing in air or earth magic unless you're planning to run through the optional content in the extended endgame. The incentive for picking up that extra element would be to get around fire resistance, but you are already getting Poison Arrow online. Poison Arrow kills basically everything you might care about killing in a 3-Rune game except the occasional undead, but fire is generally just fine for that job. Getting a whole second element to a level of training that makes it worth using is extremely expensive, and it won't come in handy anywhere near as often as you'd think.

Tuesday, 29th April 2014, 03:25 by duvessa

Fire giant vs. frost giant is an excellent example of why rF is more useful than rC even outside of Zot: fire giants have fireball, which does more damage than bolt of cold or fire and ignores EV. There is no coldball.

Tuesday, 29th April 2014, 03:35 by KoboldLord

duvessa wrote:Fire giant vs. frost giant is an excellent example of why rF is more useful than rC even outside of Zot: fire giants have fireball, which does more damage than bolt of cold or fire and ignores EV. There is no coldball.

Are you arguing that a relative newbie should memorize the five hundred tiny differences, that they should take fire resistance over cold resistance unquestioningly and unthinkingly in all situations, or are you just nitpicking something trivial for your own personal entertainment?

Using ice dragon armour is fine. Certainly better than using nothing instead because somebody on the internet somewhere said that fire resistance is better.

Tuesday, 29th April 2014, 03:49 by and into

Well, in this case it is fairly easy to generalize while still giving useful information. Hell(s), you can even cover extended:

rF+ is generally better than rC+, except in Cocytus, Slime Pits, and Ice Caves. However, your first pip of rC is generally better than your second pip of rF, except in Gehenna, Volcanoes, or when facing an Orb of Fire. Walking around with an elemental vulnerability is extremely risky just about anywhere. Note that despite the name, rF+(++) does absolutely nothing against Hellfire.

Simulacra are very fragile, slower, icy undead versions of usual creatures, but they get added AC-ignoring damage that, if it hits you, will only be mitigated by cold resistance or Deep Dwarf's damage shaving. So be very careful with them in melee—or, better yet, avoid melee and melt them from a distance. Ice Fiends are not fragile, not slow, and have similarly AC-ignoring melee cold damage, in addition to nasty ranged attacks, so watch out.

Tuesday, 29th April 2014, 03:53 by crate

generally I think both fda and ida are not good since negative resists are really bad
almost always would rather have either steam/mottled DA or plate armour

Tuesday, 29th April 2014, 20:22 by tasonir

Is there any chance in hell that FDA would ever be changed to just rF+ and no rC-, and similar for IDA? I'd love that too, although I am still fond of using them for their ac/encumbrance ratios despite having to balance resists.

Wednesday, 30th April 2014, 04:46 by Garrus01

My progress since last time:

Code:: Izananmi the Thaumaturge (DsFE) Turns: 33196, Time: 04:58:17 HP 110/110 AC 22 Str 13 XL: 14 Next: 64% MP 43/43 EV 17 Int 24 God: Vehumet [****..] Gold 2286 SH 0 Dex 12 Spells: 6 memorised, 16 levels left rFire + . . SeeInvis + H - +3,+2 flail (protect) rCold . . . Clarity . a - +2 robe {rF+} rNeg . . . Conserve . (no shield) rPois . rCorr . (no helmet) rElec . rRot . C - +2 cloak SustAb . . Spirit . (no gloves) rMut + Warding . L - +1 pair of boots {Stlth+} Saprov . . . Stasis . n - amulet "Koiczowo" {rMut Str+3 Int+2} MR +.... y - ring of magical power R - ring of see invisible @: somewhat resistant to hostile enchantments, very stealthy A: claws 1, iridescent scales 3, clever 1, clumsy 1, nightstalker 2, powered by pain 1 a: Renounce Religion You are on level 3 of the Lair of Beasts. You worship Vehumet. Vehumet is greatly pleased with you. You are hungry. You have visited 4 branches of the dungeon, and seen 24 of its levels. You have also visited: Labyrinth, Ossuary and Ice Cave. You have collected 3085 gold pieces. You have spent 799 gold pieces at shops. Inventory: Hand weapons D - a dire flail of holy wrath H - a +3,+2 flail of protection (weapon) Armour a - a +2 robe of fire resistance (worn) b - a +1 leather armour of poison resistance e - a +0 ice dragon armour r - a +0 robe of magic resistance C - a +2 cloak (worn) L - a +1 pair of boots of stealth (worn) Magical devices k - a wand of paralysis {zapped: 1} u - a wand of frost {zapped: 2} w - a wand of disintegration {zapped: 4} K - a wand of draining {zapped: 5} Comestibles c - 6 bread rations j - 8 meat rations l - 4 sultanas Scrolls h - 2 scrolls labeled EHAUMERRUA q - a scroll labeled NASONA KHELEX t - 2 scrolls of enchant armour v - 6 scrolls of teleportation x - 2 scrolls of recharging E - 2 scrolls labeled URRUNN AMUT N - a scroll labeled GEIRAO CAEF Jewellery g - an uncursed ring of regeneration i - an uncursed amulet of the gourmand n - the amulet "Koiczowo" (around neck) {rMut Str+3 Int+2} (You found it in an ice cave) [amulet of resist mutation] It affects your strength (+3). It affects your intelligence (+2). o - a +2 ring of strength y - a ring of magical power (right claw) F - a +5 ring of dexterity I - an uncursed ring of flight J - a +3 ring of protection M - an uncursed ring of poison resistance O - an uncursed ring of protection from fire P - a ring of magical power R - a ring of see invisible (left claw) T - a ring of protection from fire U - an uncursed thin pearl amulet {tried} V - an uncursed ring of sustenance W - a +1 ring of evasion Y - an uncursed amulet of faith Z - an uncursed thick peridot amulet {tried} Potions d - a potion of resistance f - 15 potions of curing m - 2 oily orange potions p - 3 potions of heal wounds z - 3 potions of might A - 2 potions of lignification B - a potion of restore abilities G - a green potion Q - a smoky yellow potion Books s - a book of Annihilations {highlevel} Spells Type Level *Poison Arrow Conjuration/Poison 6 Chain Lightning Conjuration/Air 8 Lehudib's Crystal Spear Conjuration/Earth 8 Glaciate Conjuration/Ice 9 Fire Storm Conjuration/Fire 9 S - a book of the Sky Spells Type Level Flight Charms/Air 3 Airstrike Air 4 Silence Hexes/Air 5 Deflect Missiles Charms/Air 6 Conjure Ball Lightning Conjuration/Air 6 Tornado Air 9 X - a book of Death Spells Type Level Corpse Rot Necromancy 2 Sublimation of Blood Necromancy 2 Agony Necromancy 5 Dispel Undead Necromancy 5 Excruciating Wounds Charms/Necromancy 5 Bolt of Draining Conjuration/Necromancy 5 Skills: - Level 10.0 Fighting - Level 0.5 Maces & Flails - Level 0.1 Armour - Level 10.0 Dodging - Level 1.7 Stealth - Level 12.0 Spellcasting - Level 10.7 Conjurations - Level 11.3 Fire Magic + Level 7.9 Poison Magic You have 16 spell levels left. You know the following spells: Your Spells Type Power Failure Level Hunger a - Flame Tongue Conj/Fire ##### 1% 1 None b - Throw Flame Conj/Fire ###### 1% 2 None c - Conjure Flame Conj/Fire ######.. 1% 3 None d - Sticky Flame Conj/Fire ######.. 1% 4 None e - Fireball Conj/Fire ######.... 1% 5 ###.... f - Poison Arrow Conj/Pois ######.... 4% 6 #####.. Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations Branches: Dungeon (12/15) Temple (1/1) D:5 Orc (4/4) D:12 Elf (0/3) Orc:4 Lair (7/8) D:11 Snake (0/5) Lair:5 Spider (0/5) Lair:4 Slime: Lair:6-8 Altars: Ashenzari Cheibriados Dithmenos Elyvilon Fedhas Kikubaaqudgha Makhleb Nemelex Xobeh Okawaru Sif Muna Trog Vehumet Xom Yredelemnul Zin The Shining One Beogh Shops: D:6 * D:7 %%} D:10 [ Orc:4 (}*! Portals: Trove: D:11 (give 17 potions of curing) Annotations: D:8 Joseph D:10 Tiggy's ghost, powerful TrFi Lair:7 Rupert; Snorg Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations You have sharp fingernails. You are completely covered in iridescent scales (AC +8). You are significantly more attuned to the shadows. You sometimes gain a little power by taking damage. Your mind is acute. (Int +2) You are clumsy. (Dex -2) Action | 1- 3 | 4- 6 | 7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 || total -------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++------- Melee: Unarmed | 7 | 22 | 13 | | || 42 Flail | | | 27 | 221 | 285 || 533 Cast: Flame Tongue | 48 | 76 | 107 | 286 | 169 || 686 Throw Flame | 25 | 19 | 71 | 88 | 16 || 219 Sticky Flame | | 5 | 46 | 128 | 173 || 352 Conjure Flame | | 3 | 10 | 38 | 15 || 66 Fireball | | | 11 | 124 | 133 || 268 Poison Arrow | | | | | 29 || 29 Abil: Evoke Flight | | | | | 2 || 2 Evoke: Wand | | | | 3 | 1 || 4 Use: Potion | | 1 | 5 | 5 | 2 || 13 Scroll | | | 16 | 12 | 9 || 37 Stab: Sleeping | | | | 2 | 10 || 12 Distracted | | | | | 1 || 1

I brought Poison Arrow online shortly after the mines. Needed it too: That orc warlord and the cabal of High Priests and Orc Sorcerors were a most unexpected surprise. Last time I made it to the mines, most I had to deal with was uppity knights. At this point, once I finish training Poison, I'm either going to raise armor (for IDA), Maces and Flails, Staves, or Spell Casting and Conjuration. Not sure which to train right now, brain's tired. I do have access to a lajatang, but I'm not sure if the Dire Flail of Holy Wrath is a better weapon. Still need to keep an eye out for something which will slay those OoF you mentioned, unless I can get either Crystal Spear or Tornado online.

If IDA and FDA lost their weaknesses, I think the associated dragons would loose their weaknesses too. I really, really don't think we want that.

Okay, looking at this with a clearer head- does the armor skill reduce the EV penalty or not? I studied the wiki, and couldn't quite figure out for certain whether or not that was the case.

Edit: I could take Iron Shot right now if I wanted to, Vehumet's got it on offer.

Wednesday, 30th April 2014, 13:52 by Lasty

Poison Arrow does a little under half damage to orbs of fire, making it still reasonably capable of taking them out, if not ideal. Crystal Spear and Tornado will both do the job, but they're overkill, so don't feel like you absolutely need them.

The Armour skill multiplies the EV penalty from that armor by (Armour / 45). So, getting 45 Armour skill (impossible) would completely eliminate the penalty, and getting 22.5 Armour skill would cut the penalty in half.

Thursday, 1st May 2014, 02:53 by Garrus01

Whelp, she died. I got to the fifth floor of the Swamps though. Sooo close to my first rune.

Morgue file:

Code:: 141278 Izananmi the Thaumaturge (level 16, -10/122 HPs) Began as a Demonspawn Fire Elementalist on Apr 27, 2014. Was a High Priest of Vehumet. Killed from afar by a spriggan druid (24 damage) ... with a stone arrow ... on Level 5 of the Swamp on Apr 30, 2014. The game lasted 07:18:56 (49190 turns). Izananmi the Thaumaturge (DsFE) Turns: 49190, Time: 07:18:57 HP -10/122 AC 25 Str 18 XL: 16 Next: 71% MP 45/45 EV 19 Int 25 God: Vehumet [*****.] Gold 2788 SH 0 Dex 18 Spells: 8 memorised, 8 levels left rFire . . . SeeInvis . H - +3,+2 flail (protect) rCold . . . Clarity . b - +1 leather armour {rPois} rNeg . . . Conserve . (no shield) rPois + rCorr . (no helmet) rElec . rRot . C - +2 cloak SustAb . . Spirit . l - +1 pair of gloves rMut + Warding . L - +1 pair of boots {Stlth+} Saprov . . . Stasis . n - amulet "Koiczowo" {rMut Str+3 Int+2} MR +.... y - ring of magical power F - +5 ring of dexterity @: about to teleport, mighty, somewhat resistant to hostile enchantments, stealthy A: claws 2, iridescent scales 3, clever 1, clumsy 1, nightstalker 2, powered by pain 1 a: Renounce Religion You were on level 5 of the Swamp. You worshipped Vehumet. Vehumet was extremely pleased with you. You were not hungry. You visited 5 branches of the dungeon, and saw 30 of its levels. You also visited: Labyrinth, Trove, Ossuary and Ice Cave. You collected 3587 gold pieces. You spent 799 gold pieces at shops. Inventory: Hand weapons H - a +3,+2 flail of protection (weapon) Y - a +0,+0 lajatang Armour a - a +2 robe of fire resistance b - a +1 leather armour of poison resistance (worn) e - a +0 ice dragon armour h - a +0 ring mail l - a +1 pair of gloves (worn) C - a +2 cloak (worn) L - a +1 pair of boots of stealth (worn) Magical devices w - a wand of disintegration (2) Comestibles c - 4 bread rations j - 4 meat rations Scrolls f - a scroll of enchant weapon II g - a scroll of enchant weapon III {unknown} p - a scroll of remove curse q - 2 scrolls of blinking r - 2 scrolls of magic mapping u - 3 scrolls of silence v - a scroll of teleportation Jewellery i - an uncursed amulet of the gourmand n - the amulet "Koiczowo" (around neck) {rMut Str+3 Int+2} (You found it in an ice cave) [amulet of resist mutation] It affects your strength (+3). It affects your intelligence (+2). o - an uncursed ring of fire y - a ring of magical power (right hand) E - an uncursed ring of protection from fire F - a +5 ring of dexterity (left hand) I - the amulet "Qanaf" {Cons +Blink +Inv rN+} (You found it in a treasure trove) [amulet of conservation] It protects you from negative energy. It lets you turn invisible. It lets you blink. M - an uncursed ring of poison resistance R - an uncursed ring of see invisible T - an uncursed ring of protection from fire U - an uncursed amulet of conservation V - an uncursed ring of sustenance W - an uncursed ring of regeneration Z - an uncursed amulet of inaccuracy Potions d - a potion of resistance m - 3 potions of brilliance z - a potion of might B - a potion of restore abilities D - 2 potions of heal wounds G - a potion of agility K - a potion of haste N - 3 potions of curing Q - a potion of beneficial mutation {unknown} Books s - a book of Annihilations {highlevel} Spells Type Level *Poison Arrow Conjuration/Poison 6 Chain Lightning Conjuration/Air 8 Lehudib's Crystal Spear Conjuration/Earth 8 Glaciate Conjuration/Ice 9 Fire Storm Conjuration/Fire 9 t - a book of Air Spells Type Level Shock Conjuration/Air 1 Swiftness Charms/Air 2 Repel Missiles Charms/Air 2 Flight Charms/Air 3 Static Discharge Conjuration/Air 3 Lightning Bolt Conjuration/Air 5 A - a book of Power Spells Type Level Fulminant Prism Conjuration/Hexes 4 Iskenderun's Mystic Blast Conjuration 4 Venom Bolt Conjuration/Poison 5 Bolt of Magma Conjuration/Fire/Earth 5 *Iron Shot Conjuration/Earth 6 Orb of Destruction Conjuration 7 J - a book of Summonings Spells Type Level Abjuration Summoning 3 Recall Summoning/Translocation 3 Summon Elemental Summoning 4 Shadow Creatures Summoning 5 Summon Demon Summoning 5 Monstrous Menagerie Summoning 6 Skills: - Level 10.0 Fighting - Level 0.5 Maces & Flails - Level 4.4 Staves - Level 7.1 Armour - Level 10.0 Dodging - Level 1.7 Stealth * Level 13.4 Spellcasting + Level 13.2 Conjurations - Level 11.3 Fire Magic - Level 6.0 Earth Magic - Level 9.9 Poison Magic You had 8 spell levels left. You knew the following spells: Your Spells Type Power Failure Level Hunger a - Flame Tongue Conj/Fire ##### 1% 1 None b - Throw Flame Conj/Fire ###### 1% 2 None c - Conjure Flame Conj/Fire ######.. 1% 3 None d - Sticky Flame Conj/Fire ######.. 1% 4 None e - Fireball Conj/Fire ######.... 1% 5 #...... f - Poison Arrow Conj/Pois ######.... 1% 6 #####.. g - Iron Shot Conj/Erth ######.... 4% 6 #####.. h - Bolt of Fire Conj/Fire ######.... 1% 6 #####.. Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations Branches: Dungeon (13/15) Temple (1/1) D:5 Orc (4/4) D:12 Elf (0/3) Orc:4 Lair (7/8) D:11 Swamp (5/5) Lair:3 Snake (0/5) Lair:5 Slime: Lair:6-8 Vaults: D:13-14 Altars: Ashenzari Cheibriados Dithmenos Elyvilon Fedhas Kikubaaqudgha Makhleb Nemelex Xobeh Okawaru Sif Muna Trog Vehumet Xom Yredelemnul Zin The Shining One Beogh Shops: D:6 * D:7 %%} D:10 [ Orc:4 (}*! Annotations: D:10 Tiggy's ghost, powerful TrFi Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations You have very sharp fingernails. You are completely covered in iridescent scales (AC +8). You are significantly more attuned to the shadows. You sometimes gain a little power by taking damage. Your mind is acute. (Int +2) You are clumsy. (Dex -2) Message History The thrashing horror tramples you. You hold your ground! The thrashing horror closely misses you. The thrashing horror barely misses you. The thrashing horror closely misses you. The spriggan druid gestures wildly while chanting. The forest starts to sway and rumble! As you read the scroll of teleportation, it crumbles to dust. You feel strangely unstable. You are hit by a branch! * * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * * The thrashing horror completely misses you. The thrashing horror barely misses you. The spriggan druid calls out to the beasts of the wild! You feel roots moving beneath the ground. A tree reaches out and hits you! * * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * * A tree reaches out but misses you. The thrashing horror barely misses you. The thrashing horror tramples you but does no damage. The spriggan druid points at you and mumbles some strange words. The stone arrow hits you! You die... ????˜..˜˜˜˜˜.....???.˜˜.?˜˜.§.˜...˜˜˜˜˜˜˜.? ˜˜˜˜?.˜˜˜˜˜˜˜.???? ?.˜˜˜˜˜˜.??.˜˜˜˜˜˜.˜˜˜˜ .˜˜......˜˜˜.?˜? ?˜˜˜˜˜.?????˜˜˜˜˜..˜˜˜˜ .˜˜˜.§?§˜....˜˜? ??.˜˜§.?? ?)˜˜..??˜˜˜ .˜˜˜˜˜.??˜.˜˜??? ?˜.˜˜˜?? ˜...??. .˜ .˜˜˜.˜.???˜˜˜? ??˜.%˜? ??˜˜?? ?˜˜˜˜˜.? ?.˜..˜ ???˜˜?? ???. ?.˜˜˜˜?? ?.˜˜˜? ???§? ?.˜˜˜˜.?.§˜˜˜˜? ?.? ?˜˜˜˜.˜˜˜˜˜˜˜ ? ??.? ˜ ˜˜ ??˜..˜˜˜˜˜ ?˜???˜˜? ˜.? ˜˜˜ ?˜˜˜˜˜˜˜˜ ?˜˜??X? ˜.˜˜???.˜˜˜ ??˜§˜˜˜.˜˜ ?˜˜@§?? ˜.˜˜˜˜.i˜˜? ?˜.˜˜˜.?˜? ?§%§˜˜? ?˜.˜˜˜D˜˜˜i˜§ ??%.˜˜?? ???....? ?.˜˜˜˜<))˜˜i˜ ?..%˜????? ??.˜˜˜!.. ?˜˜˜˜˜˜˜˜˜˜˜. .˜˜˜˜.??˜?? ?.˜˜˜i˜.˜ ?...˜.˜˜˜˜D .˜˜˜˜˜.˜˜˜?? ????.˜˜˜.˜.˜˜.??????????˜˜˜˜ ).˜˜˜.˜˜˜˜.? ??˜˜˜.˜˜..˜. .˜˜˜???? ˜§˜ .??˜˜˜.....????˜˜˜˜˜?????. n˜.?˜˜? .˜ ????˜.%.?..˜˜˜?˜˜˜˜˜˜?? §§§˜§? ?˜§˜˜.??.˜˜˜˜.).<?..? ?§§§§?.˜ ?.˜˜.˜˜??.˜˜˜˜˜˜.˜˜˜? ?§˜§§.˜˜ ?..˜.˜˜.??.˜.˜˜˜.˜˜˜? ?§§§P§y.§˜ ????˜?˜˜˜˜????˜.˜˜(˜˜˜? ?§§§§§?.S You could see a thrashing horror and a spriggan druid. Grand Total: 1296 creatures vanquished Notes Turn | Place | Note -------------------------------------------------------------- 0 | D:1 | Izananmi, the Demonspawn Fire Elementalist, began the quest for the Orb. 0 | D:1 | Reached XP level 1. HP: 13/13 MP: 3/3 430 | D:1 | Gained mutation: You are partially covered in iridescent scales (AC +4). [demonic ancestry] 430 | D:1 | Reached XP level 2. HP: 19/19 MP: 2/4 675 | D:2 | Reached skill level 3 in Fire Magic 681 | D:2 | Learned a level 2 spell: Throw Flame 987 | D:2 | Reached XP level 3. HP: 24/24 MP: 2/6 1771 | D:3 | Gained mutation: You have sharp fingernails. [demonic ancestry] 1771 | D:3 | Reached XP level 4. HP: 30/30 MP: 8/9 1958 | D:3 | Found a sparkling altar of Nemelex Xobeh. 2135 | D:3 | Learned a level 3 spell: Conjure Flame 2140 | D:3 | Learned a level 4 spell: Sticky Flame 2166 | D:3 | Gained mutation: You are mostly covered in iridescent scales (AC +6). [demonic ancestry] 2166 | D:3 | Reached XP level 5. HP: 33/35 MP: 11/12 2455 | D:4 | Reached skill level 4 in Spellcasting 2565 | D:4 | Noticed Blork the orc 2613 | D:4 | Killed Blork the orc 2613 | D:4 | Reached XP level 6. HP: 18/41 MP: 15/15 2931 | D:4 | Found a sand-covered staircase. 3045 | Ossuary | Entered an ossuary 3224 | Ossuary | Gained mutation: You are slightly more attuned to the shadows. [demonic ancestry] 3224 | Ossuary | Reached XP level 7. HP: 46/46 MP: 11/18 3433 | Ossuary | Reached skill level 5 in Spellcasting 3662 | Ossuary | Reached skill level 5 in Fire Magic 4079 | Ossuary | Gained mutation: You are completely covered in iridescent scales (AC +8). [demonic ancestry] 4079 | Ossuary | Reached XP level 8. HP: 52/52 MP: 15/20 4378 | D:4 | Reached skill level 5 in Conjurations 4406 | D:4 | Reached skill level 6 in Spellcasting 4524 | D:4 | Noticed Dowan 4537 | D:4 | Learned a level 5 spell: Fireball 4587 | D:4 | Noticed Duvessa 4625 | D:4 | Killed Duvessa 4759 | D:4 | Killed Dowan 4796 | D:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon 4991 | D:5 | Gained mutation: Your flesh is heat resistant. [mutagenic meat] 4992 | D:5 | Gained mutation: You heal slowly when monsters are visible. [mutagenic meat] 5182 | D:5 | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple. 5190 | Temple | Entered the Ecumenical Temple 5372 | D:5 | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 2 turns 5379 | D:5 | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 3 turns 5386 | D:5 | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 4 turns 5752 | D:6 | Reached skill level 7 in Spellcasting 5790 | D:6 | Noticed Burble's ghost (average OpTm) 5794 | D:6 | Reached XP level 9. HP: 47/57 MP: 16/24 5822 | D:6 | Killed Burble's ghost 5854 | D:6 | Found Hair's General Store. 5924 | D:6 | Noticed Prince Ribbit 5955 | D:6 | Killed Prince Ribbit 6030 | D:6 | Noticed Edmund 6081 | D:6 | Killed Edmund 6303 | D:6 | Paralysed by a potion of paralysis for 7 turns 6311 | D:6 | Lost mutation: Your flesh is heat resistant. [potion of cure mutation] 6311 | D:6 | Lost mutation: You heal slowly when monsters are visible. [potion of cure mutation] 6913 | D:7 | Found Schanod's Food Boutique. 7000 | D:7 | Reached skill level 8 in Spellcasting 7051 | D:7 | Found Pluocs' Gadget Boutique. 7233 | D:7 | Found a blossoming altar of Fedhas. 7287 | D:7 | Noticed Dobero's ghost (experienced FeCj) 7291 | D:7 | Killed Dobero's ghost 7419 | D:7 | Found Karam's Food Shoppe. 7504 | D:7 | Reached XP level 10. HP: 53/63 MP: 27/27 7609 | D:8 | Noticed Joseph 8132 | D:8 | Noticed Maurice 8309 | D:8 | Killed Maurice 8543 | D:8 | Noticed Eustachio 8667 | D:7 | Killed Eustachio 8790 | D:7 | Bought a slice of pizza for 18 gold pieces 8790 | D:7 | Bought a bread ration for 52 gold pieces 8790 | D:7 | Bought a meat ration for 60 gold pieces 8964 | D:8 | Reached skill level 9 in Spellcasting 10025 | D:9 | Found a radiant altar of Vehumet. 10035 | D:9 | Became a worshipper of Vehumet 10563 | D:9 | Acquired Vehumet's first power 10563 | D:9 | Offered knowledge of Magic Dart by Vehumet. 10721 | D:10 | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon 10791 | D:10 | Gained mutation: You are significantly more attuned to the shadows. [demonic ancestry] 10791 | D:10 | Reached XP level 11. HP: 60/68 MP: 29/29 10829 | D:10 | Noticed Tiggy's ghost (powerful TrFi) 11213 | D:10 | Reached skill level 10 in Spellcasting 11275 | D:10 | Found Jaesin's Antique Armour Emporium. 11281 | D:10 | Bought a pair of glowing boots for 121 gold pieces 11434 | D:10 | Offered knowledge of Freeze by Vehumet. 11459 | D:10 | Noticed a hill giant 11546 | D:10 | Killed a hill giant 11862 | D:10 | Reached skill level 1 in Fighting 11950 | D:10 | Noticed Nergalle 11969 | D:10 | Killed Nergalle 12256 | D:11 | Noticed Josephine 12453 | D:10 | Gained mutation: You are clumsy. (Dex -2) [potion of mutation] 12453 | D:10 | Gained mutation: Your mind is acute. (Int +2) [potion of mutation] 12668 | D:11 | Found a portal to a secret trove of treasure. 12782 | D:11 | Reached skill level 10 in Conjurations 12782 | D:11 | Reached skill level 10 in Fire Magic 12835 | D:11 | Found a staircase to the Lair. 13100 | Lair:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts 13160 | Lair:1 | Offered knowledge of Mephitic Cloud by Vehumet. 13324 | Lair:1 | Acquired Vehumet's second power 13931 | Lair:1 | Reached skill level 11 in Spellcasting 14177 | Lair:2 | Offered knowledge of Stone Arrow by Vehumet. 14736 | Lair:2 | Gained mutation: You sometimes gain a little power by taking damage. [demonic ancestry] 14736 | Lair:2 | Reached XP level 12. HP: 81/81 MP: 23/31 15288 | Lair:2 | Acquired Vehumet's third power 15414 | Lair:2 | Offered knowledge of Iskenderun's Battlesphere by Vehumet. 15862 | Lair:3 | Noticed a six-headed hydra 15864 | Lair:3 | Killed a six-headed hydra 15888 | Lair:3 | Reached skill level 12 in Spellcasting 16029 | Lair:3 | Found a labyrinth entrance. 16040 | Lab | Entered a labyrinth 16793 | Lab | Noticed a minotaur 16801 | Lab | Killed a minotaur 16801 | Lab | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting 16825 | Lab | Identified Muan's Catalogue of Stones 17243 | Lair:3 | Noticed Erica 17261 | Lair:3 | Killed Erica 18012 | Lair:3 | Offered knowledge of Lee's Rapid Deconstruction by Vehumet. 19219 | Lair:4 | Reached XP level 13. HP: 71/98 MP: 25/33 19221 | Lair:4 | Found a hole to the Spider Nest. 19833 | Lair:5 | Found a staircase to the Snake Pit. 19883 | Lair:5 | Found a frozen archway. 19937 | IceCv | Entered an ice cave 20126 | IceCv | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting 20396 | IceCv | Got a scintillating sapphire amulet 21456 | Lair:3 | Identified the amulet "Koiczowo" {rMut Str+3 Int+2} (You found it in an ice cave) 21594 | Lair:4 | Found a staircase to the Shoals. 21599 | Lair:4 | the staircase to the Shoals was a mimic. 21626 | Lair:4 | Offered knowledge of Spellforged Servitor by Vehumet. 22063 | Lair:4 | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging 24992 | Lair:7 | Noticed Rupert 25001 | Lair:7 | Paralysed by Rupert for 5 turns 25797 | Lair:7 | Noticed Snorg 26305 | D:11 | Noticed an unseen horror 26315 | D:11 | Killed an unseen horror 26440 | D:9 | Found a basalt altar of Yredelemnul. 26441 | D:9 | Found a glowing silver altar of Zin. 26442 | D:9 | Found a burning altar of Makhleb. 27100 | D:11 | Reached XP level 14. HP: 110/110 MP: 34/34 27354 | D:12 | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines. 28143 | Orc:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Orcish Mines 28654 | Orc:1 | Learned a level 6 spell: Poison Arrow 29323 | Orc:2 | Offered knowledge of Lightning Bolt by Vehumet. 29323 | Orc:2 | Reached skill level 10 in Dodging 29466 | Orc:2 | Reached skill level 1 in Poison Magic 29888 | Orc:3 | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog. 30288 | Orc:4 | Entered Level 4 of the Orcish Mines 30617 | Orc:4 | Found a staircase to the Elven Halls. 30889 | Orc:4 | Offered knowledge of Iron Shot by Vehumet. 30925 | Orc:4 | Paralysed by an orc sorcerer for 2 turns 30975 | Orc:4 | Paralysed by an orc sorcerer for 6 turns 31154 | Orc:4 | Reached skill level 5 in Poison Magic 31310 | Orc:4 | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh. 31797 | Orc:4 | Found Cluur's Gadget Boutique. 31797 | Orc:4 | Found Friomed's Distillery. 31805 | Orc:4 | Found Otruoqo's Assorted Antiques. 31924 | Orc:4 | Found Ghasch's Antique Weapon Boutique. 31977 | Orc:4 | Bought a potion of curing for 34 gold pieces 31977 | Orc:4 | Bought a potion of curing for 34 gold pieces 31977 | Orc:4 | Bought 2 potions of curing for 68 gold pieces 31977 | Orc:4 | Bought a potion of curing for 34 gold pieces 31977 | Orc:4 | Bought a potion of curing for 34 gold pieces 31977 | Orc:4 | Bought a potion of curing for 34 gold pieces 31990 | Orc:4 | Bought a sapphire ring for 155 gold pieces 31995 | Orc:4 | Bought a runed brass amulet for 155 gold pieces 32330 | Orc:2 | Noticed an orc warlord 32366 | Orc:3 | Killed an orc warlord 32826 | D:11 | Killed Josephine 33728 | Lair:7 | Killed Snorg 33851 | Lair:7 | Killed Rupert 34469 | Lair:7 | Learned a level 6 spell: Iron Shot 35229 | D:8 | Killed Joseph 35229 | D:8 | Gained mutation: You have very sharp fingernails. [demonic ancestry] 35229 | D:8 | Reached XP level 15. HP: 115/115 MP: 28/34 36155 | D:13 | Offered knowledge of Poisonous Cloud by Vehumet. 36697 | D:13 | Got a smoking graven amulet 37431 | Lair:4 | the hole to the Spider Nest was a mimic. 37597 | Lair:3 | Found a staircase to the Swamp. 37684 | Swamp:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Swamp 37989 | Swamp:1 | Reached skill level 1 in Armour 38528 | Swamp:1 | Identified the amulet "Dewyuph" {Cons rF- Dex+2} (You found it on level 13 of the Dungeon) 38957 | Trove | Entered a treasure trove 38975 | Trove | Got a brightly glowing robe 38982 | Trove | Identified the +2 robe of Honesty {Dam-3 Stlth++} (You found it in a treasure trove) 38995 | Trove | Got a glittering turquoise ring 39008 | Trove | Got a heavily runed leather armour 39013 | Trove | Identified the +5 leather armour of the Griffon {Dex+3 Stlth Curse} (You found it in a treasure trove) 39015 | Trove | Got a scintillating graven amulet 39180 | Trove | Identified a scroll of acquirement 39623 | Swamp:1 | Reached skill level 5 in Armour 41149 | Swamp:1 | Reached skill level 1 in Earth Magic 41935 | Swamp:2 | Noticed Donald 41993 | Swamp:1 | Killed Donald 42668 | Swamp:2 | Identified the amulet "Qanaf" {Cons +Blink +Inv rN+} (You found it in a treasure trove) 43842 | Swamp:3 | Offered knowledge of Bolt of Fire by Vehumet. 43867 | Swamp:3 | Learned a level 6 spell: Bolt of Fire 44840 | Swamp:3 | Reached XP level 16. HP: 122/122 MP: 30/35 44911 | Swamp:3 | Reached skill level 5 in Earth Magic 46890 | Swamp:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Swamp 46893 | Swamp:5 | Reached skill level 13 in Conjurations 48022 | Swamp:5 | Reached skill level 1 in Staves 48099 | Swamp:5 | Offered knowledge of Ozocubu's Refrigeration by Vehumet. 49190 | Swamp:5 | Killed from afar by a spriggan druid Action | 1- 3 | 4- 6 | 7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 || total -------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++------- Melee: Unarmed | 7 | 22 | 13 | | | || 42 Flail | | | 27 | 221 | 601 | 169 || 1018 Cast: Flame Tongue | 48 | 76 | 107 | 286 | 278 | 42 || 837 Throw Flame | 25 | 19 | 71 | 88 | 20 | || 223 Sticky Flame | | 5 | 46 | 128 | 270 | 33 || 482 Conjure Flame | | 3 | 10 | 38 | 41 | 13 || 105 Fireball | | | 11 | 124 | 206 | 45 || 386 Poison Arrow | | | | | 143 | 51 || 194 Iron Shot | | | | | 24 | 23 || 47 Bolt of Fire | | | | | 2 | 9 || 11 Abil: Evoke Flight | | | | | 2 | || 2 Evoke: Wand | | | | 3 | 5 | 5 || 13 Use: Potion | | 1 | 5 | 5 | 7 | 2 || 20 Scroll | | | 16 | 12 | 26 | 4 || 58 Stab: Sleeping | | | | 2 | 13 | || 15 Distracted | | | | | 2 | || 2

Was I simply not ready to go for that Rune? Or did I have a shot, but screwed it up? Should I have skilled differently?

Thursday, 1st May 2014, 03:06 by Patashu

You weren't hasted.

Thursday, 1st May 2014, 03:34 by Garrus01

Not sure that would have helped. I think my powered by pain may have been active, but honestly MP was low (Which was part of why I tried to bail), and the killing blow came from an archer-and I don't think a DS can outrun a spriggan.

Thursday, 1st May 2014, 03:51 by Sandman25

Tactically you didn't use any spells (Fireball is great vs spriggans) and didn't escape with blinking.
Strategically I would train less Spellcasting (Vehumet really helps and you were wearing ring with 9 MP). Not sure what I would train instead, maybe Dodging or some weapon skill. With weapon skill you would be able to use scroll of silence vs dangerous casters like that druid.

Thursday, 1st May 2014, 03:53 by and into

Whoa, what was a thrashing horror doing in Swamp?

Your defenses were reasonable and everything for Swamp:5, probably just a tactical mistake. Spriggan Druids are dangerous little bastards, with low HP but high EV, which means that a wide array of attacks are suddenly much worse against them than you might expect.

With those enemies on screen, you should have gone into "run away" mode earlier than you did. You died with 2 blinking scrolls, anyway, so you could have burned those to get out of the druid's range while your ?teleportation went off.

Thursday, 1st May 2014, 03:56 by KoboldLord

Spriggan druids are pretty dangerous, especially when there are trees and water everywhere. I certainly wouldn't have wanted to fight one with a beefy friend, which was probably also unfamiliar to you. Branch endings can get pretty nasty, and it's usually a good idea to explore very carefully, never fighting more than the absolute bare minimum number of enemies that you can separate from the pack. While there may have been ways to win this fight immediately, you probably shouldn't be too discouraged that you died on a branch end. They're harder than the branch leading up to them, so they would be where you'd expect to have your characters die if they're going to die anywhere in the mid- or late-game.

In the case of spriggan druids, spriggan monsters are notable for being really fast and ridiculously evasive, and druids are one of the worst of the whole lot. Your best bet with a fire elementalist is to use an auto-hit spell like Fireball and try to burn them down as quick as you can, because you won't be escaping. This is unlikely to be a broadly useful lesson, however, because almost no monsters in the game have EV scores as ludicrously high as the typical spriggan monster, and certainly nothing has such a lopsided hp-to-EV ratio.

Thrashing horrors are more manageable, but they're beefy and unpredictable. I expect you'd have handled it fine if the druid had not been there. They do hit pretty hard if they've buffed themselves, though. Normally you see those in the Abyss.

Thursday, 1st May 2014, 04:39 by Garrus01

The ABYSS?!? Ouch, no wonder it hit like a mack truck. Next time, I'm going to MAKE SURE I have exterminated everything else in the branch end before I draw out the rune guards. On the plus side, my new demonspawn of the same name has turned out monstrous. Not sure how I feel about that-the monstrous mutations aren't of any use to my mage playstyle really, and I'm not sure if it would be worth the investment to pour points into unarmed.

Thursday, 1st May 2014, 04:45 by KoboldLord

Most auxiliary slot mutations don't actually run off unarmed combat. Your hooves or horns will do exactly the same damage if they're supporting your swordplay as they would if they were supporting your fisticuffs. Getting monstrous is a good reason to start picking up melee skill a little bit earlier and pushing it a little bit harder, but it doesn't matter which sort of melee you're talking about.

Thursday, 1st May 2014, 12:21 by Lasty

The auxiliary attacks also trigger once per attack action, so they combo particularly well with very fast attacks (weapon of speed, quick blades, etc.). The accuracy of the auxiliary attacks is boosted by the Fighting skill, which you probably want anyway for the hp bonus.