A quick question about armour for monks


Ask fellow adventurers how to stay alive in the deep, dark, dangerous dungeon below, or share your own accumulated wisdom.

Slime Squisher

Posts: 374

Joined: Saturday, 29th March 2014, 20:53

Post Wednesday, 23rd April 2014, 16:54

A quick question about armour for monks

I've got a demonspawn who is shaping up to be an awesome unarmed attacker, but I have no real experience with playing anything other than trolls and heavily armoured fighters. I've got hooves and horns, so in the future at least those slots will be gone and added to my attack power. If I want decent AC, I will need heavy body armour, but my understanding is that anything heavier than, say, fire dragon armour doesn't play well with unarmed combat, slowing one's attack speed, which is quite a price to pay for more defensive capability. What, therefore, is an ideal choice for monks and other unarmed fighters, and what kind of priority should I place on spellcasting in the event that lighter armour is the better option?

Going light makes me feel extremely fragile, for I'm dressed no better than a troll at the moment and do not have the monstrous HP stat to back it up. On the other hand, I have better aptitudes for most things, so I can cover my weaknesses more easily. Right now I'm playing as if I'm a troll with about ten times the caution, which hopefully will get me to Lair, at which point I may have a better idea as to how to develop this character.

Chardump just for reference. I've not really gotten anywhere with it, yet, but it looks promising to me.

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.14.0-24-gfb45beb (webtiles) character file.

  Code:
 Blomdor the Insei (Demonspawn Monk)                 Turns: 1890, Time: 00:05:24

HP  35/41        AC  4     Str 12      XL: 5   Next:  8%
MP   5/5         EV 13     Int 11      God:
Gold 97          SH  0     Dex 16      Spells:  0 memorised,  4 levels left

rFire  . . .     SeeInvis .       - Unarmed
rCold  . . .     Clarity  .     i - +2 robe {MR+}
rNeg   . . .     Conserve .     (no shield)
rPois  .         rCorr    .     (helmet restricted)
rElec  .         rRot     .     (no cloak)
SustAb . .       Spirit   .     (no gloves)
rMut   .         Warding  .     (no boots)
Saprov . . .     Stasis   .     (no amulet)
MR     +....                    (no ring)
                                (no ring)

@: somewhat resistant to hostile enchantments, fairly stealthy
A: hooves 1, horns 2, powered by pain 1
a: no special abilities


You are on level 3 of the Dungeon.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 1 branch of the dungeon, and seen 3 of its levels.

You have collected 97 gold pieces.

Inventory:

Armour
 a - a +0 robe
 h - a +0 pair of boots
 i - a +2 robe of magic resistance (worn)
Magical devices
 j - a bone wand
Comestibles
 b - 4 bread rations
 g - 2 meat rations
 n - a cheese
 q - 3 chunks of orc flesh
Scrolls
 c - 2 scrolls labeled STITZAE PERA
 e - 5 scrolls labeled KULOUP ACSUPHUBA
 f - a scroll labeled SHRUUSHY ROTUH
 k - 2 scrolls labeled CROKLOLIXOY
 l - 2 scrolls labeled MIDWOT CLOCRE
 p - a scroll labeled TWUEJO SUEHAEWN
Potions
 d - a potion of haste
 m - a smoky silvery potion
 o - a brown potion


   Skills:
 - Level 3.0 Fighting
 - Level 2.6 Dodging
 - Level 1.7 Stealth
 + Level 5.8 Unarmed Combat


You have 4 spell levels left.
You don't know any spells.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (3/15)           

Altars:
Yredelemnul


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You have large cloven feet.
You have a pair of horns on your head.
You sometimes gain a little power by taking damage.


Message History

Okay, then.
Take off which item? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
You start removing your armour.
You continue taking off your +0 pair of boots.
You finish taking off your +0 pair of boots.
Things that are here:
a short sword; a chain mail
Things that are here:
a whip; a leather armour; an orc corpse
You start butchering the orc corpse. You continue butchering the corpse.
You continue butchering the corpse. x2
You finish butchering the orc corpse.
q - 4 chunks of orc flesh
Things that are here:
a whip; a leather armour
Eat one of 4 chunks of orc flesh? (ye/n/q/i?)
This raw flesh tastes terrible.
You continue eating. x2
Things that are here:
a trident; a leather armour; an orc corpse

##.##.#     .      .     #.#   #%
##.##.#    #.#     .#    #.#   #.
##.##.#    #.#     .#    #.#   #.
##.##.#    #.#     .#    #.#   #.
##.##.#    #.#     .#    #.#   #.
##.##.#    #.#     .#    #.#   #.
##.##.#    #.#     .#    #.#   #.
##.##.######.######.#    #.#   #.
...............)@)).#    #.#   #.
##.##.######.########    #.#   #.
##.##.#    #.#           #.#   #.
##.##.######.#############.#####.
.......................<......(..
......######.#############.####..
..#####    #.#####       #.#  #..
..         #)....#########.#  #..
.          #...............#  #..


There are no monsters in sight!

Vanquished Creatures
  An orc wizard (D:3)
  Jessica (D:2)
  5 adders
  A giant mite (D:2)
  7 orcs (D:3)
  8 bats
  4 hobgoblins
  A ball python (D:2)
  4 giant cockroaches
  2 giant geckos
  2 giant newts
  3 goblins
  9 kobolds
  7 rats
  A spectral orc (D:2)
56 creatures vanquished.

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | Blomdor, the Demonspawn Monk, began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 18/18 MP: 1/1
   439 | D:1      | Reached skill level 4 in Unarmed Combat
   476 | D:1      | Gained mutation: You sometimes gain a little power by taking damage. [demonic ancestry]
   476 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 8/24 MP: 2/2
  1086 | D:2      | Gained mutation: You have a pair of small horns on your head. [demonic ancestry]
  1086 | D:2      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 21/29 MP: 3/3
  1141 | D:2      | Noticed Jessica
  1146 | D:2      | Killed Jessica
  1156 | D:2      | Reached skill level 5 in Unarmed Combat
  1249 | D:2      | Gained mutation: You have a pair of horns on your head. [demonic ancestry]
  1249 | D:2      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 35/35 MP: 4/4
  1630 | D:2      | Found a basalt altar of Yredelemnul.
  1864 | D:3      | Gained mutation: You have large cloven feet. [demonic ancestry]
  1864 | D:3      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 32/41 MP: 5/5


Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Unarmed           |   105 |    77 ||   182
  Use: Potion            |       |     2 ||     2
 Stab: Sleeping          |     4 |     2 ||     6



For future reference, should this have gone in the CiP, etc. forum, since it goes into some detail about my current character?

Blades Runner

Posts: 578

Joined: Thursday, 12th January 2012, 21:03

Post Wednesday, 23rd April 2014, 17:01

Re: A quick question about armour for monks

Caution and consumables should be enough for now. I'd start training Dodging once you feel like you have enough attack power. Later on, grab something light, MDA if you can get it.
Wins: DsWz(6), DDNe(4), HuIE(5), HuFE(4), MiBe(3)

Slime Squisher

Posts: 374

Joined: Saturday, 29th March 2014, 20:53

Post Wednesday, 23rd April 2014, 17:57

Re: A quick question about armour for monks

Alrighty. 8 skill levels with careful play and consumable use is killing things as powerful as trolls on D:6, so I've started dodging.

Now I am wondering how significant auxiliary attacks are. This is a new character (last one ran into Pikel while fleeing Sigmund; RIP), and it has not obtained any, yet it seems stronger if anything. Powered by death and free natural armour are really nice.

How about deities? Mahkleb, Okawaru, Nemelex, Trog, and perhaps Yredelemnul all sound good to me and I don't know which I want to go with.

Dungeon Master

Posts: 3160

Joined: Sunday, 5th August 2012, 14:52

Post Wednesday, 23rd April 2014, 18:00

Re: A quick question about armour for monks

Heavy armour does impact your unarmed attack speed to a randomized degree, but even up to plate armour isn't necessarily crippling, if you have decent Str and train a fair amount of Armour skill. Right now I'm running a TrCK wearing absurdly-heavy GDA; even with kinda bad strength and little Armour skill it wasn't crippling, but it was noticeable. Of course, trolls are a bit of a special case, since their defenses are normally so bad and their offense is normally so good -- wearing extremely heavy armour evens things out so that they're way more tanky but also at a more normal level of offense.

As a demonspawn, you probably don't want to go past Storm or Plate armour, but you can try it out and see for yourself how it's going. Demonspawn generally can get solid defenses even in light armor.

Slime Squisher

Posts: 374

Joined: Saturday, 29th March 2014, 20:53

Post Wednesday, 23rd April 2014, 18:08

Re: A quick question about armour for monks

Free natural armour is seriously great stuff. It's like I get another robe. Yellow, too, so eventually it will be a free slotless amulet of resist corrosion as well. O, may my idiocy not get this one killed.

Found a nice book of summoning spells up to hydras, so I've branched out into spellcasting a bit and now wonder if I could go for Sif or Vehumet. It would mix perfectly with my build, but I am terrible with casters. Hm...

Is it just me, or does Crawl really like to tease? All the time, when I'm not a centaur I get bardings everywhere. I'll find a runed battleaxe right when I've gone too far into long blades. The game's now dumped an eveningstar and several artefact maces on me, as if to say "are you SURE you want to go unarmed? Are you surrrre?" Alas, it's just too late.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 5382

Joined: Friday, 25th November 2011, 07:36

Post Wednesday, 23rd April 2014, 18:25

Re: A quick question about armour for monks

In short, the heavy armor penalty to unarmed attack speed is very harsh at 0 armor skill and very lenient at 27 armor skill. What's more important is that your armor skill is matched to your armor heaviness, than that you don't use heavy armor. You can wear CPA if you have 20+ armor skill and that's fine (you also need 24+ str). So it's generally a good idea to start out light and get progressively heavier as you train armor skill and find better armors. I mostly stop around fire/ice dragon armor because that's heavy enough to pack serious AC and only commits you to around 15 armor skill. Most games you probably won't want 25 armor skill, but if you do have 25 armor skill, then by all means you can wear CPA.

As for crawl teasing you - it's a mixture of confirmation bias (you tend to remember painful "wrong" items more than correct ones, combined with the fact there's ~8 or so weapon skills and if you were using one of them, you'd expect to eventually find something good in that skill. So if you're unarmed, you'll be passing up 8 good, end game quality weapons at some point during your game. Some might hurt more than others. Stick with unarmed :)

Slime Squisher

Posts: 374

Joined: Saturday, 29th March 2014, 20:53

Post Wednesday, 23rd April 2014, 18:51

Re: A quick question about armour for monks

I never knew the ability to summon bats and rats was this good. They don't hurt anything but I can summon so many that they just get in *everything's* way and sometimes I even see little ?s on the sprites of nasty things as they are drowned in small rodents. It's extremely satisfying. I don't suppose there's any reason to go past 5 summoning skill for it, though? I learned summon hydra as well, but that's level 7 and I've no clue what's involved in getting that online. Right now I need to go back to basics so I can continue to punch things to death.

I know to stick with unarmed. If it was D:2 and I'd only trained up to 3 unarmed or something, I'd definitely consider switching for an eveningstar of protection, with or without the small negative enchantment that was on it. As it stands, I had 8, it was around D:5, and I knew I'd invested too much in other things by that time. It was still funny to see an eveningstar of all things just lying around so early. I very, very rarely find them at all. They seem to be one of the rarest weapons in the game.

Well, I know this isn't CiP, but in case anyone is curious...

  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.14.0-24-gfb45beb (webtiles) character file.

Blomdor the Martial Artist (Demonspawn Monk)        Turns: 9096, Time: 00:41:30

HP  62/69        AC 13     Str 12      XL: 9   Next: 95%
MP  15/15        EV 17     Int 12      God: Nemelex Xobeh [****..]
Gold 371         SH  0     Dex 18      Spells:  2 memorised,  4 levels left

rFire  . . .     SeeInvis .       - Unarmed
rCold  + + .     Clarity  +     q - +1 robe {rC+} (curse)
rNeg   . . .     Conserve .     (no shield)
rPois  .         rCorr    .     g - +2 helmet of Grarph {Dam+3}
rElec  .         rRot     .     c - +2 cloak
SustAb . .       Spirit   .     h - +0 pair of gloves
rMut   .         Warding  .     u - +0 pair of boots (curse)
Saprov + . .     Stasis   .     (no amulet)
MR     ++...                    v - cursed ring of protection from magic
                                r - ring of protection from magic

@: flying, very resistant to hostile enchantments, fairly stealthy
A: yellow scales 1, clarity, cold resistance 1, fast metabolism 1, powered by
death 1, saprovore 1
a: Draw One, Peek at Two, Triple Draw, Deal Four, Renounce Religion


You are on level 8 of the Dungeon.
You worship Nemelex Xobeh.
Nemelex Xobeh is greatly pleased with you.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 2 branches of the dungeon, and seen 9 of its levels.
You have also visited: Ossuary.

You have collected 371 gold pieces.

Inventory:

Armour
 a - a +0 robe
 c - a +2 cloak (worn)
 f - a +0 pair of boots
 g - the +2 helmet of Grarph (worn) {Dam+3}
   (You acquired it on level 6 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It affects your damage with ranged weapons and melee attacks (+3).
 h - a +0 pair of gloves (worn)
 p - a +0 pair of boots
 q - a cursed +1 robe of cold resistance (worn)
 u - a cursed +0 pair of boots (worn)
 y - a troll hide
Magical devices
 s - a wand of digging {zapped: 1}
 D - a wand of random effects (7)
 E - a wand of confusion {zapped: 6}
Comestibles
 b - 10 bread rations
 n - 5 meat rations
Scrolls
 l - 4 scrolls of teleportation
 o - 4 scrolls of remove curse
 t - a scroll of enchant weapon II
 w - 3 scrolls of fog
 I - a scroll of blinking
Jewellery
 k - an uncursed amulet of conservation
 m - an uncursed amulet of resist corrosion
 r - a ring of protection from magic (left hand)
 v - a cursed ring of protection from magic (right hand)
 x - an uncursed amulet of faith
Potions
 d - a potion of heal wounds
 e - 4 potions of curing
 z - 6 potions of might
 A - a potion of berserk rage
 B - 3 potions of agility
 F - a potion of flight
Books
 C - the Volume of Creation
   (You found it on level 6 of the Dungeon)   
   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   *Summon Small Mammal               Summoning                    1
   Abjuration                         Summoning                    3
   Summon Elemental                   Summoning                    4
   *Summon Hydra                      Summoning                    7
Miscellaneous
 i - an ornate deck of destruction {drawn: 1}
 j - an ornate deck of summonings {drawn: 1}


   Skills:
 - Level 6.2 Fighting
 - Level 7.0 Dodging
 - Level 1.7 Stealth
 + Level 9.3 Unarmed Combat
 - Level 2.2 Spellcasting
 - Level 5.2 Summonings


You have 4 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Summon Small Mammal   Summ           ##..         3%          1    ##.....
b - Summon Hydra          Summ           ##........   100%        7    #######


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (8/15)             Temple (1/1) D:6         
  Lair: D:8-11     

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Sif Muna
Trog
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One

Shops:
D:4 *   D:6 (


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You are partially covered in yellow scales (AC +2).
You can steal the life force of nearby defeated enemies.
You can tolerate rotten meat.
You possess an exceptional clarity of mind.
Your flesh is cold resistant.
You have a fast metabolism.


Message History

You barely miss the adder.
The adder is moderately wounded.
The adder closely misses you.
You hit the adder.
The adder is heavily wounded.
The adder closely misses you.
You punch the adder!
You kill the adder!
No target in view!
No target in view!
No target in view!
No target in view!
No target in view!
No target in view!
No target in view!
There is an open door here.
You see here 18 stones.
You offer a prayer to Nemelex Xobeh.
The 18 stones glow slightly and disappear.
Nemelex Xobeh is greatly pleased with you.

.$......                    .....
#.......                     ....
#......                     .....
#...$..                     .....
 #....###                   ###..
 #......###               ###....
#####.##..###           ###..##..
.......###..#############..###...
.........###..#.@.....#..###.....
......#...###.'..8⌠8..'.## ##....
........####..#.......#..#  #....
.......###..#############..###...
#.....##..###..#.#    #.###..##..
#.###...#  #...#.#    #.#.###....
#.# ..###  #...#.#    #.#...###..
#.# ###    #...#'######.#........
#.#        #............'........


There are no monsters in sight!

Vanquished Creatures
  A gargoyle (D:8)
  The ghost of prinygod the Transmogrifier, an experienced NaTm of Sif Muna (D:8)
  A troll (D:6)
  Prince Ribbit (D:6)
  Eustachio (D:4)
  Edmund (D:8)
  An orc warrior (D:6)
  3 black bears (D:8)
  2 sky beasts
  2 ogres
  2 centaurs
  A giant frog (D:8)
  7 scorpions
  4 killer bees (D:7)
  A goliath beetle (D:7)
  A crimson imp (D:5)
  A gnoll shaman (D:7)
  A giant frog skeleton (D:7)
  2 iguanas (D:5)
  A human zombie (Ossuary)
  2 orc wizards
  4 orc priests
  6 worker ants
  An ogre zombie (D:6)
  3 big kobold zombies (Ossuary)
  3 mummies
  12 adders
  6 gnolls (D:7)
  A worm zombie (D:7)
  5 giant mites
  4 worms
  An iguana zombie (D:7)
  3 orc skeletons
  2 adder skeletons
  2 adder zombies (Ossuary)
  A giant eyeball (D:7)
  8 giant geckos
  33 orcs
  A ball python (D:2)
  6 giant cockroaches
  3 goblins
  8 hobgoblins
  17 jackals
  An ooze (D:3)
  6 quokkas
  13 bats
  3 giant newts
  2 goblin zombies (Ossuary)
  8 hobgoblin zombies (Ossuary)
  10 kobolds
  12 kobold zombies (Ossuary)
  6 orc zombies
  14 rats
  2 rat zombies (Ossuary)
244 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills)
  A centaur skeleton (D:7)
  An orc skeleton (D:7)
  A bat skeleton (D:7)
  A kobold skeleton (D:7)
  A kobold zombie (Ossuary)
  An orc zombie (Ossuary)
6 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  A hog (D:7)
  A bat (Ossuary)
  A quokka (Ossuary)
  6 rats
9 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 259 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | Blomdor, the Demonspawn Monk, began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 18/18 MP: 1/1
   359 | D:1      | Reached skill level 4 in Unarmed Combat
   398 | D:1      | Gained mutation: You can steal the life force of nearby defeated enemies. [demonic ancestry]
   398 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 20/24 MP: 2/2
   705 | D:2      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 15/29 MP: 3/3
  1026 | D:2      | Found a burning altar of Makhleb.
  1106 | D:2      | Reached skill level 5 in Unarmed Combat
  1396 | D:3      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 35/35 MP: 4/4
  1943 | D:4      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 41/41 MP: 5/5
  1981 | D:4      | Noticed Eustachio
  2031 | D:4      | Killed Eustachio
  2031 | D:4      | Reached skill level 6 in Unarmed Combat
  2031 | D:4      | Gained mutation: You can tolerate rotten meat. [demonic ancestry]
  2031 | D:4      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 16/47 MP: 6/6
  2245 | D:4      | Found Khuy's Elemental Accessories.
  2427 | D:4      | Reached skill level 7 in Unarmed Combat
  2473 | D:4      | Gained mutation: You are partially covered in yellow scales (AC +2). [demonic ancestry]
  2473 | D:4      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 46/52 MP: 7/7
  2546 | D:4      | Reached skill level 8 in Unarmed Combat
  2890 | D:4      | Gained mutation: Your flesh is cold resistant. [potion of mutation]
  2890 | D:4      | Gained mutation: You possess an exceptional clarity of mind. [potion of mutation]
  2890 | D:4      | Gained mutation: You have a fast metabolism. [potion of mutation]
  3086 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  3861 | D:6      | Paralysed by a potion of paralysis for 3 turns
  3874 | D:6      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 16/58 MP: 8/8
  4118 | D:6      | Noticed a troll
  4239 | D:6      | Found a glowing silver altar of Zin.
  4249 | D:6      | Killed a troll
  4249 | D:6      | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
  4263 | D:6      | Identified a scroll of acquirement
  4264 | D:6      | Got a bloodstained helmet
  4267 | D:6      | Identified the +2 helmet of Grarph {Dam+3} (You acquired it on level 6 of the Dungeon)
  4276 | D:6      | Noticed Prince Ribbit
  4285 | D:6      | Killed Prince Ribbit
  4301 | D:6      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  4316 | Temple   | Entered the Ecumenical Temple
  4563 | D:6      | Found Qefoutun's Antique Weapon Boutique.
  4651 | D:6      | Identified the Volume of Creation
  4781 | D:6      | Learned a level 1 spell: Summon Small Mammal
  5080 | D:7      | Found a deep blue altar of Sif Muna.
  5358 | D:7      | Reached skill level 1 in Spellcasting
  5358 | D:7      | Reached skill level 1 in Summonings
  5596 | D:7      | Found a sparkling altar of Nemelex Xobeh.
  5607 | D:7      | Learned a level 7 spell: Summon Hydra
  5607 | D:7      | Became a worshipper of Nemelex Xobeh the Trickster
  5607 | D:7      | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
  5607 | D:7      | Acquired Nemelex Xobeh's first power
  5682 | D:7      | Acquired Nemelex Xobeh's second power
  5782 | D:7      | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
  5893 | D:7      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 55/63 MP: 13/15
  5895 | D:7      | Acquired Nemelex Xobeh's third power
  6422 | D:2      | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
  7146 | D:5      | Acquired Nemelex Xobeh's fourth power
  7655 | D:7      | Reached skill level 5 in Summonings
  7730 | D:7      | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog.
  8022 | D:8      | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
  8042 | D:8      | Noticed Edmund
  8055 | D:8      | Killed Edmund
  8292 | D:8      | Noticed a gargoyle
  8336 | D:8      | Killed a gargoyle
  8336 | D:8      | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
  8538 | D:8      | Found a sand-covered staircase.
  8565 | Ossuary  | Entered an ossuary
  8855 | D:8      | Noticed prinygod's ghost (experienced NaTm)
  8886 | D:8      | Killed prinygod's ghost
  8886 | D:8      | Reached skill level 9 in Unarmed Combat
  8965 | D:8      | Found an iron altar of Okawaru.
  8973 | D:8      | Found a snail-covered altar of Cheibriados.


Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Unarmed           |   179 |   241 |   739 ||  1159
 Cast: Summon Small Mamm |       |       |    13 ||    13
Invok: Draw One          |       |       |    18 ||    18
Evoke: Wand              |       |       |     1 ||     1
  Use: Potion            |     4 |       |    10 ||    14
       Scroll            |     3 |       |    16 ||    19
 Stab: Sleeping          |     2 |     4 |     8 ||    14
       Distracted        |       |       |     4 ||     4


I'm actually worried I spent a bit too long on summonings just for spammals, but perhaps I did the right thing. Hopefully.

EDIT: Time to grow horns. Too bad, that helmet is great. Oh well. Goodbye, sweet helmet of Gwar.

Debating weather the troll hide is worth the first scroll of enchant armour I find.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 5382

Joined: Friday, 25th November 2011, 07:36

Post Wednesday, 23rd April 2014, 18:58

Re: A quick question about armour for monks

Investing 5 into a skill is almost never going to ruin a character. If you're enjoying the help, it's probably quite worth it. I wouldn't go about casting summon hydra anytime soon, but you might want to pick up abjuration, it's useful if you're facing summoners. You probably don't need any more summonings to cast it decently, although a bit more much later in the game would help.

For now, get a bit more unarmed, probably up to around 15 or so, and then keep working on fighting/dodging somewhat. If you find a buckler getting 5 shields is very fast, and if you have a high enough quality shield (something with a resist you need, or a randart with a few good things), 15 is doable also. I'd avoid large shields.

Getting some evocations at some point will help a lot with decks, and all of your god abilities. That should cover most of the core skills you'll need all game; learn magic skills if you find a good spell that you want (haste, regeneration, etc). As mentioned above, armor skill to match the armor you're using, as you find better armor.

Dungeon Master

Posts: 3160

Joined: Sunday, 5th August 2012, 14:52

Post Wednesday, 23rd April 2014, 20:08

Re: A quick question about armour for monks

tasonir wrote:In short, the heavy armor penalty to unarmed attack speed is very harsh at 0 armor skill and very lenient at 27 armor skill. What's more important is that your armor skill is matched to your armor heaviness, than that you don't use heavy armor. You can wear CPA if you have 20+ armor skill and that's fine (you also need 24+ str). So it's generally a good idea to start out light and get progressively heavier as you train armor skill and find better armors.


This is a little misleading. Armour skill reduces the penalty from your armour, but by a percent rather than a fixed amount, so at any given level of Armour skill, you'll be reducing the penalty from leather armour by the same proportion as you would reduce the penalty from CPA, but in real numbers the CPA would still be significantly heavier than the leather.

What matters for unarmed combat (and other things affected by encumbrance) is AEVP, and the amount that armour contributes to AEVP is a reduced smoothly by Armour skill such that by the time you have 22.5 Armour skill to penalty is reduced by 50%.

Overall, the you need to know unlike other weapon skills, UC with heavy armour is a tradeoff between AC and damage. If you can get good AC/EV without using heavy armour, you should do it, because it preserves your damage output. If you can't, you may want to accept reduced damage in exchange for improved defense.

For this message the author Lasty has received thanks:
duvessa

Slime Squisher

Posts: 374

Joined: Saturday, 29th March 2014, 20:53

Post Wednesday, 23rd April 2014, 20:30

Re: A quick question about armour for monks

Making this into an even broader advice thread (but I suck and I need it...)

I just killed Rupert with much help from my ornate deck of destruction. Prrrobably I should have just run. He had a glowing great mace and I saw him as soon as I went down the stairs. If this had not worked out I'd be typing up a *very* stupid YASD right now. However it did and I guess that's what counts now.

How conservative should I be with decks? Nemelex seems to resupply them quite reliably even with generous usage. Rupert with a glowing great mace that could have been distortion or anything certainly seemed like a good justification to pull the decks out.

As an aside...I got banished to the Abyss by my deck of escape, once. That is *not* what I had in mind, Nemmy. Oh well. I lived. Still scary running from liches at XL 13. Yeesh.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 5382

Joined: Friday, 25th November 2011, 07:36

Post Wednesday, 23rd April 2014, 20:36

Re: A quick question about armour for monks

Lasty wrote:
tasonir wrote:In short, the heavy armor penalty to unarmed attack speed is very harsh at 0 armor skill and very lenient at 27 armor skill. What's more important is that your armor skill is matched to your armor heaviness, than that you don't use heavy armor. You can wear CPA if you have 20+ armor skill and that's fine (you also need 24+ str). So it's generally a good idea to start out light and get progressively heavier as you train armor skill and find better armors.


This is a little misleading. Armour skill reduces the penalty from your armour, but by a percent rather than a fixed amount, so at any given level of Armour skill, you'll be reducing the penalty from leather armour by the same proportion as you would reduce the penalty from CPA, but in real numbers the CPA would still be significantly heavier than the leather.

What matters for unarmed combat (and other things affected by encumbrance) is AEVP, and the amount that armour contributes to AEVP is a reduced smoothly by Armour skill such that by the time you have 22.5 Armour skill to penalty is reduced by 50%.

Overall, the you need to know unlike other weapon skills, UC with heavy armour is a tradeoff between AC and damage. If you can get good AC/EV without using heavy armour, you should do it, because it preserves your damage output. If you can't, you may want to accept reduced damage in exchange for improved defense.

Let's assume there's an acceptable level of additional delay to add to unarmed. Let's arbitrarily set this at +1 aut. Wearing leather with 0 armor skill will probably still be under this limit, and so you're set even at 0 skill. Then you move up to fire dragon armor, and you're adding about +2 aut, which is too high. You train some armor skill to bring it down and you're again meeting your goal of 1 aut or less penalty. You upgrade to CPA, and while you're getting the same percent off as with fire dragon armor, it's now 2 aut again, and you need higher skill to bring it back down to 1 aut. I never claimed armor skill takes a flat amount off the delay, just that you'll need to have more skill to compensate for heavier armor. It is usually not the goal to have 0 additional delay while wearing armor; if you want that, you need robes or steam dragon armor.

For the record I believe even GDA only adds around 1.5 aut on average with 27 armor skill; so really any armor can be used with unarmed combat if you're willing to really, really invest in armor. I'd still not recommend GDA, of course.
Last edited by tasonir on Wednesday, 23rd April 2014, 20:39, edited 1 time in total.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 11111

Joined: Friday, 8th February 2013, 12:00

Post Wednesday, 23rd April 2014, 20:39

Re: A quick question about armour for monks

Chance to be banished by the deck is 1/(N + 1) where N is number of monsters (both friendly and hostile) in LoS, it's better used to escape from a crowd, not from a single enemy (50% chance to banish self if only a single monster is in LoS)

Slime Squisher

Posts: 374

Joined: Saturday, 29th March 2014, 20:53

Post Wednesday, 23rd April 2014, 21:30

Re: A quick question about armour for monks

  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.14.0-24-gfb45beb (webtiles) character file.

Blomdor the Black Belt (Demonspawn Monk)           Turns: 22791, Time: 02:15:56

HP 124/127       AC 10     Str 13      XL: 16   Next:  1%
MP  24/24        EV 27     Int 12      God: Nemelex Xobeh [******]
Gold 1110        SH  0     Dex 21      Spells:  4 memorised,  9 levels left

rFire  . . .     SeeInvis .       - Unarmed
rCold  + + .     Clarity  .     q - +1 robe {rC+}
rNeg   . . .     Conserve +     (no shield)
rPois  .         rCorr    .     (helmet restricted)
rElec  .         rRot     .     c - +1 cloak
SustAb . .       Spirit   .     h - -1 pair of gloves
rMut   .         Warding  .     u - +0 pair of boots
Saprov + . .     Stasis   .     k - amulet of conservation
MR     +....                    p - +2 ring of evasion
                                G - +1 ring of evasion

@: somewhat resistant to hostile enchantments, stealthy
A: horns 2, yellow scales 1, cold resistance 1, fast metabolism 1, powered by
death 2, saprovore 1
a: Draw One, Peek at Two, Triple Draw, Deal Four, Stack Five, Renounce Religion


You are on level 8 of the Lair of Beasts.
You worship Nemelex Xobeh.
Nemelex Xobeh is exalted by your worship.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 3 branches of the dungeon, and seen 20 of its levels.
You have visited the Abyss 1 time.
You have also visited: Ossuary.

You have collected 1267 gold pieces.
You have spent 157 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Armour
 c - a +1 cloak (worn)
 h - a -1 pair of gloves (worn)
 q - a +1 robe of cold resistance (worn)
 u - a +0 pair of boots (worn)
 A - the -2 leather armour of Hedge Wizardry {rElec}
   (You found it on level 7 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   It insulates you from electricity.
 P - the +3 scale mail of Ploph {rF+ rN+}
   (You took it off a red devil on level 8 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   It protects you from fire.
   It protects you from negative energy.
Magical devices
 s - a wand of digging (18)
 K - a wand of teleportation {zapped: 1}
 O - a wand of cold {empty}
 R - a wand of hasting {empty}
Comestibles
 b - 14 bread rations
 n - 4 meat rations
Scrolls
 a - a scroll of enchant weapon I
 l - 10 scrolls of teleportation
 o - 6 scrolls of remove curse
 w - 4 scrolls of fog
 x - 3 scrolls of magic mapping
 H - 4 scrolls of amnesia
 I - 2 scrolls of blinking
 J - a scroll of fear
Jewellery
 k - an amulet of conservation (around neck)
 m - an uncursed amulet of resist corrosion
 p - a +2 ring of evasion (right hand)
 r - an uncursed ring of protection from magic
 v - an uncursed ring of protection from magic
 G - a +1 ring of evasion (left hand)
 L - a ring of protection from magic
 M - an uncursed ring of positive energy
 N - an uncursed amulet of clarity
 Q - an uncursed ring of protection from cold
Potions
 e - 4 potions of curing
 g - a potion of restore abilities
 j - 2 potions of brilliance
 z - 7 potions of might
 B - 4 potions of agility
 F - a potion of flight
Books
 f - a book of Conjurations   
   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   Magic Dart                         Conjuration                  1
   Searing Ray                        Conjuration                  2
   Dazzling Spray                     Conjuration/Hexes            3
   Fulminant Prism                    Conjuration/Hexes            4
   Iskenderun's Mystic Blast          Conjuration                  4
   Iskenderun's Battlesphere          Conjuration/Charms           5
Miscellaneous
 d - a legendary deck of destruction {drawn: 1}
 i - an ornate deck of destruction {drawn: 9}
 y - a legendary deck of summonings {drawn: 1}
 C - an ornate deck of escape {Flight, drawn: 1}
 E - a plain deck of destruction {drawn: 1}


   Skills:
 - Level 12.0 Fighting
 - Level 9.4 Armour
 + Level 12.3 Dodging
 - Level 1.7 Stealth
 - Level 16.5 Unarmed Combat
 - Level 3.3 Spellcasting
 - Level 7.5 Summonings


You have 9 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Summon Small Mammal   Summ           ###.         1%          1    #......
b - Summon Hydra          Summ           ###.......   100%        7    #######
c - Blink                 Tloc           N/A          38%         2    ##.....
d - Repel Missiles        Chrm/Air       #.....       38%         2    ##.....


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (11/15)            Temple (1/1) D:6             Orc (0/4) D:10
   Lair (8/8) D:10          Swamp (0/5) Lair:6       Spider (0/5) Lair:3
  Slime (0/6) Lair:8     

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Sif Muna
Trog
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One
Jiyva

Shops:
D:4 *   D:6 (   D:9 *

Portals:
Hell: Lair:8

Annotations:
Lair:6 exclusion: ice statue


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You have a pair of horns on your head.
You are partially covered in yellow scales (AC +2).
You can steal the life force of defeated enemies.
You can tolerate rotten meat.
Your flesh is cold resistant.
You have a fast metabolism.


Message History

There is a burning altar of Makhleb here.
There is an open door here.
There is an open door here.
You hit the crocodile.
The crocodile is lightly wounded.
The crocodile barely misses you.
You hit the crocodile. You headbutt the crocodile!
The crocodile is heavily wounded.
You hit the crocodile but do no damage. Your headbutt misses the crocodile.
The crocodile is heavily wounded.
You pummel the crocodile!!
You kill the crocodile!
No target in view!
No target in view!
No target in view!
No target in view!
No target in view!
No target in view!
There is a stone staircase leading up here.
Partly explored, can't reach some places.

##........#####....f<......####..
##.......#..##.#.#.........# ##..
#..............##.##.f#....###...
..............f#..P...#.P...##...
##...........ff..........P.f.....
 ##....#####............P......f.
  ##..##   ##....................
 ##...#######....P#..#...........
 #....'._..##...@##..###..#......
 #.#..##.>.##....f#####.####.....
 ##...##...##.....#   ### #...#..
  ##..#######..##f#      ##....#.
   ##..#####...####    ###....f..
    ##.......###      ##..#.....f
    #P....####       ##..##.....f
    #######          #........P..
                    ###..........


There are no monsters in sight!

Vanquished Creatures
  Rupert (Lair:6)
  A dire elephant (Lair:8)
  7 hydras
  9 death yaks
  A sun demon (Lair:8)
  A wizard (Lair:8)
  A hill giant (D:10)
  A lindwurm (Lair:8)
  An oklob plant (Lair:5)
  2 griffons
  3 black mambas
  A sixfirhy (Lair:8)
  A gargoyle (D:8)
  5 elephants (Lair:7)
  13 spiny frogs
  The ghost of prinygod the Transmogrifier, an experienced NaTm of Sif Muna (D:8)
  3 orange demons (Lair:8)
  An item mimic (Lair:4)
  A hellwing (Lair:8)
  4 komodo dragons
  A red devil (Lair:8)
  A giant firefly (Lair:4)
  A fire drake (Lair:6)
  A freezing wraith (Lair:6)
  A troll (D:6)
  5 polar bears
  Prince Ribbit (D:6)
  4 blue devils (Lair:8)
  11 blink frogs
  3 trapdoor spiders (Lair:3)
  A wraith (Abyss:1)
  5 ugly things (D:10)
  A deep elf mage (D:10)
  A spriggan (Lair:4)
  4 basilisks
  Eustachio (D:4)
  2 hill giant zombies
  A hungry ghost (D:9)
  6 hippogriffs
  16 water moccasins
  A necrophage (D:10)
  Edmund (D:8)
  8 wolves (Lair:8)
  17 yaks
  2 hell hounds (Lair:8)
  2 small abominations (Abyss:1)
  A yellow wasp (D:10)
  An orc warrior (D:6)
  4 black bears (D:8)
  10 porcupines
  2 sky beasts
  7 ogres
  4 centaurs
  4 ice beasts (Lair:6)
  16 crocodiles
  A boring beetle (Lair:8)
  A big kobold (D:10)
  8 giant slugs
  11 giant frogs
  A komodo dragon skeleton (D:9)
  7 scorpions
  A water moccasin skeleton (D:9)
  7 killer bees
  3 wights (D:9)
  An electric eel (Lair:4)
  A goliath beetle (D:7)
  3 crimson imps
  A gnoll shaman (D:7)
  A giant frog skeleton (D:7)
  9 hounds
  9 iguanas
  A human zombie (Ossuary)
  5 orc wizards
  5 orc priests
  8 worker ants
  2 ogre zombies
  11 sheep (Lair:3)
  3 big kobold zombies (Ossuary)
  A mottled dragon skeleton (D:9)
  3 mummies
  75 green rats
  23 adders
  6 gnolls (D:7)
  A worm zombie (D:7)
  3 white imps (Lair:6)
  7 giant mites
  6 worms
  An iguana zombie (D:7)
  5 orc skeletons
  2 adder skeletons
  2 adder zombies (Ossuary)
  A giant eyeball (D:7)
  9 giant geckos
  34 orcs
  A ball python (D:2)
  6 giant cockroaches
  3 goblins
  10 hobgoblins
  37 jackals
  An ooze (D:3)
  10 quokkas
  17 bats
  3 giant newts
  2 goblin zombies (Ossuary)
  8 hobgoblin zombies (Ossuary)
  14 kobolds
  12 kobold zombies (Ossuary)
  6 orc zombies
  24 rats
  2 rat zombies (Ossuary)
  A ballistomycete (D:10)
  A fungus (Lair:4)
  2 plants
644 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills)
  A centaur skeleton (D:7)
  An orc skeleton (D:7)
  A bat skeleton (D:7)
  A kobold skeleton (D:7)
  A kobold zombie (Ossuary)
  An orc zombie (Ossuary)
6 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  A black mamba (Lair:8)
  A hog (D:7)
  An elephant slug (Lair:8)
  A porcupine (D:10)
  A green rat (D:10)
  A bat (Ossuary)
  A giant spore (D:10)
  A quokka (Ossuary)
  6 rats
  A ballistomycete (D:10)
  4 fungi
  3 plants
  3 starspawn tentacles (Abyss:1)
  144 starspawn tentacle segments (Abyss:1)
169 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 819 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | Blomdor, the Demonspawn Monk, began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 18/18 MP: 1/1
   359 | D:1      | Reached skill level 4 in Unarmed Combat
   398 | D:1      | Gained mutation: You can steal the life force of nearby defeated enemies. [demonic ancestry]
   398 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 20/24 MP: 2/2
   705 | D:2      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 15/29 MP: 3/3
  1026 | D:2      | Found a burning altar of Makhleb.
  1106 | D:2      | Reached skill level 5 in Unarmed Combat
  1396 | D:3      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 35/35 MP: 4/4
  1943 | D:4      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 41/41 MP: 5/5
  1981 | D:4      | Noticed Eustachio
  2031 | D:4      | Killed Eustachio
  2031 | D:4      | Reached skill level 6 in Unarmed Combat
  2031 | D:4      | Gained mutation: You can tolerate rotten meat. [demonic ancestry]
  2031 | D:4      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 16/47 MP: 6/6
  2245 | D:4      | Found Khuy's Elemental Accessories.
  2427 | D:4      | Reached skill level 7 in Unarmed Combat
  2473 | D:4      | Gained mutation: You are partially covered in yellow scales (AC +2). [demonic ancestry]
  2473 | D:4      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 46/52 MP: 7/7
  2546 | D:4      | Reached skill level 8 in Unarmed Combat
  2890 | D:4      | Gained mutation: Your flesh is cold resistant. [potion of mutation]
  2890 | D:4      | Gained mutation: You possess an exceptional clarity of mind. [potion of mutation]
  2890 | D:4      | Gained mutation: You have a fast metabolism. [potion of mutation]
  3086 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  3861 | D:6      | Paralysed by a potion of paralysis for 3 turns
  3874 | D:6      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 16/58 MP: 8/8
  4118 | D:6      | Noticed a troll
  4239 | D:6      | Found a glowing silver altar of Zin.
  4249 | D:6      | Killed a troll
  4249 | D:6      | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
  4263 | D:6      | Identified a scroll of acquirement
  4264 | D:6      | Got a bloodstained helmet
  4267 | D:6      | Identified the +2 helmet of Grarph {Dam+3} (You acquired it on level 6 of the Dungeon)
  4276 | D:6      | Noticed Prince Ribbit
  4285 | D:6      | Killed Prince Ribbit
  4301 | D:6      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  4316 | Temple   | Entered the Ecumenical Temple
  4563 | D:6      | Found Qefoutun's Antique Weapon Boutique.
  4651 | D:6      | Identified the Volume of Creation
  4781 | D:6      | Learned a level 1 spell: Summon Small Mammal
  5080 | D:7      | Found a deep blue altar of Sif Muna.
  5358 | D:7      | Reached skill level 1 in Spellcasting
  5358 | D:7      | Reached skill level 1 in Summonings
  5596 | D:7      | Found a sparkling altar of Nemelex Xobeh.
  5607 | D:7      | Learned a level 7 spell: Summon Hydra
  5607 | D:7      | Became a worshipper of Nemelex Xobeh the Trickster
  5607 | D:7      | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
  5607 | D:7      | Acquired Nemelex Xobeh's first power
  5682 | D:7      | Acquired Nemelex Xobeh's second power
  5782 | D:7      | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
  5893 | D:7      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 55/63 MP: 13/15
  5895 | D:7      | Acquired Nemelex Xobeh's third power
  6422 | D:2      | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
  7146 | D:5      | Acquired Nemelex Xobeh's fourth power
  7655 | D:7      | Reached skill level 5 in Summonings
  7730 | D:7      | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog.
  8022 | D:8      | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
  8042 | D:8      | Noticed Edmund
  8055 | D:8      | Killed Edmund
  8292 | D:8      | Noticed a gargoyle
  8336 | D:8      | Killed a gargoyle
  8336 | D:8      | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
  8538 | D:8      | Found a sand-covered staircase.
  8565 | Ossuary  | Entered an ossuary
  8855 | D:8      | Noticed prinygod's ghost (experienced NaTm)
  8886 | D:8      | Killed prinygod's ghost
  8886 | D:8      | Reached skill level 9 in Unarmed Combat
  8965 | D:8      | Found an iron altar of Okawaru.
  8973 | D:8      | Found a snail-covered altar of Cheibriados.
  9246 | D:8      | Gained mutation: You have a pair of small horns on your head. [demonic ancestry]
  9246 | D:8      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 76/76 MP: 16/16
  9774 | D:9      | Found Brusuu's General Store.
  9777 | D:9      | Bought a potion of heal wounds for 45 gold pieces
  9777 | D:9      | Bought a scroll of enchant armour for 112 gold pieces
  9836 | D:9      | Reached skill level 10 in Unarmed Combat
  9933 | D:9      | Learned a level 2 spell: Blink
  9936 | D:9      | Learned a level 2 spell: Repel Missiles
 10059 | D:9      | Acquired Nemelex Xobeh's fifth power
 10513 | D:10     | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
 10609 | D:10     | Reached skill level 11 in Unarmed Combat
 10725 | D:10     | Reached skill level 12 in Unarmed Combat
 10777 | D:10     | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 10783 | D:10     | Found a staircase to the Lair.
 10838 | D:10     | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
 10896 | D:10     | Noticed a hill giant
 10908 | D:10     | Killed a hill giant
 10908 | D:10     | Reached XP level 11. HP: 62/81 MP: 18/18
 11037 | D:10     | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 11039 | D:10     | Lost mutation: You have a fast metabolism. [helix card]
 11039 | D:10     | Gained mutation: You have a fast metabolism. [helix card]
 11041 | D:10     | Reached skill level 16 in Unarmed Combat
 11041 | D:10     | Gained mutation: You can steal the life force of defeated enemies. [demonic ancestry]
 11041 | D:10     | Reached XP level 12. HP: 88/88 MP: 14/18
 11043 | D:10     | Reached XP level 13. HP: 93/93 MP: 11/20
 11660 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts
 11905 | Lair:1   | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 12886 | Lair:2   | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 12888 | Lair:2   | Cast into the Abyss (drawing a card)
 12888 | Abyss:1  | Found a corrupted altar of Lugonu.
 12981 | Abyss:1  | Noticed a lich
 12990 | Abyss:1  | Noticed a tentacled starspawn
 13056 | Lair:2   | Escaped the Abyss
 13399 | Lair:3   | Found a hole to the Spider Nest.
 13501 | Lair:3   | Found a shadowy altar of Dithmenos.
 14588 | Lair:4   | Found a snail-covered altar of Cheibriados.
 14777 | Lair:4   | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 14910 | Lair:4   | Shuffle card: Str 13[13], Int 12[12], Dex 19[19]
 14912 | Lair:4   | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting
 14912 | Lair:4   | Reached XP level 14. HP: 102/110 MP: 16/23
 16626 | Lair:5   | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 16820 | Lair:6   | Noticed Rupert
 16841 | Lair:6   | Killed Rupert
 17534 | Lair:6   | Got a heavy robe
 17540 | Lair:6   | Identified the cursed -3 robe of Unambiguity {rF++ Int-3} (You found it on level 6 of the Lair of Beasts)
 17722 | Lair:6   | Found a staircase to the Swamp.
 18010 | Lair:7   | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 18122 | Lair:7   | Gained mutation: You have a pair of horns on your head. [demonic ancestry]
 18122 | Lair:7   | Reached XP level 15. HP: 89/120 MP: 23/23
 18124 | Lair:7   | Lost mutation: You possess an exceptional clarity of mind. [helix card]
 18270 | Lair:7   | Reached skill level 10 in Dodging
 18981 | Lair:7   | Got a heavily runed leather armour
 18993 | Lair:7   | Identified the cursed -2 leather armour of Hedge Wizardry {rElec} (You found it on level 7 of the Lair of Beasts)
 19755 | Lair:8   | Entered Level 8 of the Lair of Beasts
 20650 | Lair:8   | Found a viscous altar of Jiyva.
 20651 | Lair:8   | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits.
 20664 | Lair:8   | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 21683 | Lair:8   | Found a burning altar of Makhleb.
 22072 | Lair:8   | Got a steaming scale mail
 22081 | Lair:8   | Identified the +3 scale mail of Ploph {rF+ rN+} (You took it off a red devil on level 8 of the Lair of Beasts)
 22698 | Lair:8   | Reached XP level 16. HP: 94/127 MP: 24/24
 22712 | Lair:8   | Found a gateway to Hell.


Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Unarmed           |   179 |   241 |   748 |   408 |  1316 |     4 ||  2896
 Cast: Summon Small Mamm |       |       |    13 |       |       |       ||    13
Invok: Draw One          |       |       |    18 |     2 |    16 |       ||    36
       Triple Draw       |       |       |       |     3 |     6 |       ||     9
Evoke: Wand              |       |       |     1 |       |    19 |       ||    20
       Deck              |       |       |       |     5 |     8 |       ||    13
  Use: Potion            |     4 |       |    10 |     3 |    12 |       ||    29
       Scroll            |     3 |       |    16 |     4 |    15 |       ||    38
 Stab: Sleeping          |     2 |     4 |     8 |     2 |     9 |       ||    25
       Distracted        |       |       |     4 |       |     4 |       ||     8


How am I doing? I feel like I need attack power and dodging and/or AC roughly equally.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 5382

Joined: Friday, 25th November 2011, 07:36

Post Wednesday, 23rd April 2014, 21:54

Re: A quick question about armour for monks

You should use that scale mail immediately. You even already have 9 armor skill to use it with, and it'll give you a lot more AC for only a minor hit to EV. You also gain rF and rN, which you have none of, and you will still have rC+ (You don't need rC++). Your strength is a bit low so check the encumbrance on it, but I believe scale mail is 11? You have enough in that case. In scale mail you can continue to train both armor and dodging for good returns from both.

+1 and +2 ev rings are almost worthless, you should be using at least one protection from magic for sure; possibly even the second if you want. But don't use the +1 ev ring.

Your balance of UC/defenses/fighting looks pretty good, you can basically just keep raising all of them a bit at a time as you go forward. Learn abjuration already, and use it when summons are around and you can't reach/quickly kill the summoner. It is -not- the most critical spell in the world, but you already have the book and the summoning skill, so there's no reason not to. And when it is useful, it's quite useful.

Edit: Side note: There is very little point in training armor while you're wearing a robe. Once you switch to the scale mail it will become useful, so it isn't a waste. Still, it's generally best to wait until you find the armor and then wear it and train armor, than to train armor for a while when you're still wearing a robe. Maybe you were training armor because you intended to switch to the scale mail and I just don't know - I am not sure what your thought process was. I'd have put on the scale mail as soon as I found it on your character though, the enchantment is fairly high and two resists are nice. The encumbrance isn't so high that you couldn't wear it with 0 armor skill.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 8786

Joined: Sunday, 5th May 2013, 08:25

Post Wednesday, 23rd April 2014, 22:12

Re: A quick question about armour for monks

tasonir wrote:Let's assume there's an acceptable level of additional delay to add to unarmed.
"Let's assume something that's completely ridiculous."
Attack delay's effect on damage is a continuous function. So is armour skill's effect on AEVP and AEVP's effect on delay. It makes no sense whatsoever to assign breakpoints to it.

For this message the author duvessa has received thanks:
zardo

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 5382

Joined: Friday, 25th November 2011, 07:36

Post Thursday, 24th April 2014, 00:11

Re: A quick question about armour for monks

Think of it as a goal. You don't want to completely nerf your damage ability in order to get defenses, so you try to keep it at a reasonable level. You can decide what that level is for your character, I didn't intend to say that 1 is a law that must be followed. Be aware of how much delay you're adding, and if you're happy with that good, otherwise train armor skill. If you can't get to a reasonable delay by training armor skill, then don't use that armor.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4055

Joined: Tuesday, 10th January 2012, 19:49

Post Thursday, 24th April 2014, 01:10

Re: A quick question about armour for monks

what I do for UC characters is I select armour without ever caring about the UC-specific penalties, because the UC-specific penalties are complicated and rarely actually change your armour decision

Slime Squisher

Posts: 374

Joined: Saturday, 29th March 2014, 20:53

Post Thursday, 24th April 2014, 01:18

Re: A quick question about armour for monks

Bought fire dragon armour and enchanted it to +5. I'm thinking this will be my endgame suit.

  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.14.0-24-gfb45beb (webtiles) character file.

Blomdor the Black Belt (Demonspawn Monk)           Turns: 50682, Time: 05:04:11

HP 151/151       AC 33     Str 11      XL: 19   Next: 12%
MP  26/26        EV 18     Int  8      God: Nemelex Xobeh [******]
Gold 36          SH 15     Dex 23      Spells:  5 memorised,  8 levels left

rFire  + + .     SeeInvis .       - Unarmed
rCold  . . .     Clarity  .     p - +5 fire dragon armour
rNeg   . . .     Conserve +     f - +2 buckler {AC+3}
rPois  +         rCorr    +     q - +2 hat {MR+}
rElec  .         rRot     +     D - +2 cloak {rCorr, Cons} (curse)
SustAb . .       Spirit   .     C - +0 pair of gloves
rMut   .         Warding  .     R - +2 pair of boots {Fly}
Saprov + . .     Stasis   .     k - amulet of conservation
MR     +++..                    x - ring of Stieg {rPois Str-4 Dex+1 Int-4}
                                r - ring of protection from magic

@: flying, extremely resistant to hostile enchantments, very unstealthy
A: horns 2, yellow scales 2, cold resistance 1, foul stench 1, powered by death
3, saprovore 1, spit poison 1, strong 1
a: Spit Poison, Draw One, Peek at Two, Triple Draw, Deal Four, Stack Five,
Renounce Religion, Stop Flying
}: 1/15 runes: decaying


You are on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts.
You worship Nemelex Xobeh.
Nemelex Xobeh is exalted by your worship.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 7 branches of the dungeon, and seen 37 of its levels.
You have visited the Abyss 1 time.
You have visited 1 bazaar.
You have also visited: Ossuary and Bailey.

You have collected 3343 gold pieces.
You have spent 3255 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Armour
 f - a +2 buckler of protection (worn)
 p - a +5 fire dragon armour (worn)
 q - a +2 hat of magic resistance (worn)
 C - a +0 pair of gloves (worn)
 D - a cursed +2 cloak of preservation (worn)
 R - a +2 pair of boots of flying (worn)
Magical devices
 a - a wand of hasting {recharged}
 m - a wand of magic darts {zapped: 1}
 s - a wand of digging (15)
 y - a wand of magic darts
 K - a wand of teleportation {zapped: 1}
 X - a wand of teleportation
Comestibles
 b - 3 bread rations
Scrolls
 i - a scroll of magic mapping
 l - 7 scrolls of teleportation
 n - a scroll of blinking
 o - 6 scrolls of remove curse
 t - a scroll of enchant weapon I
 w - 3 scrolls of fog
 E - a scroll of amnesia
 U - 7 scrolls of identify
Jewellery
 h - an uncursed ring of see invisible
 k - an amulet of conservation (around neck)
 r - a ring of protection from magic (left hand)
 v - an uncursed ring of protection from magic
 x - the ring of Stieg (right hand) {rPois Str-4 Dex+1 Int-4}
   (You found it in a bailey)   
   
   [ring of poison resistance]
   It affects your strength (-4).
   It affects your intelligence (-4).
   It affects your dexterity (+1).
 M - an uncursed ring of positive energy
 N - an uncursed amulet of clarity
 Q - an uncursed ring of protection from cold
Potions
 c - a potion of invisibility
 g - a potion of restore abilities
 z - 5 potions of might
 B - 4 potions of agility
Books
 d - a book of Frost   
   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   Freeze                             Ice                          1
   Throw Frost                        Conjuration/Ice              2
   Ozocubu's Armour                   Charms/Ice                   3
   Throw Icicle                       Conjuration/Ice              4
   *Summon Ice Beast                  Ice/Summoning                4
   Condensation Shield                Ice                          4
Miscellaneous
 e - an ornate deck of summonings {drawn: 1}
 j - a legendary deck of destruction {drawn: 6}
 u - a legendary deck of escape {drawn: 1}
 A - a legendary deck of destruction {drawn: 1}
 J - a legendary deck of summonings {drawn: 1}
 V - a lamp of fire


   Skills:
 + Level 13.9 Fighting
   Level 3.5 Slings
 - Level 10.1 Armour
 + Level 14.6 Dodging
 - Level 1.7 Stealth
 - Level 5.1 Shields
 - Level 20.0 Unarmed Combat
 - Level 3.3 Spellcasting
 - Level 7.5 Summonings


You have 8 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Summon Small Mammal   Summ           ##..         10%         1    ##.....
b - Summon Hydra          Summ           ##........   100%        7    #######
c - Blink                 Tloc           N/A          100%        2    ###....
d - Repel Missiles        Chrm/Air       #.....       100%        2    ###....
e - Summon Ice Beast      Ice/Summ       #.......     100%        4    #####..


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (1/1) D:6             Orc (4/4) D:10
    Elf (3/3) Orc:4          Lair (8/8) D:10          Swamp (5/5) Lair:6
 Spider (0/5) Lair:3        Slime (0/6) Lair:8       Vaults (0/5) D:14
 Depths (1/5) D:15       

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Sif Muna
Trog
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One
Beogh
Jiyva

Shops:
D:4 *   D:6 (   D:9 *   D:15 =   Orc:1 (   Orc:3 ?!   Orc:4 =[(([
Elf:1 =

Portals:
Hell: Lair:8

Annotations:
Lair:6 exclusion: ice statue
Depths:1 the Enchantress


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You have a pair of horns on your head.
You are mostly covered in yellow scales (AC +3).
You emit a foul stench, and are resistant to rotting and decay.
You can steal the life force of all defeated enemies in sight.
You can tolerate rotten meat.
Your flesh is cold resistant.
You can spit poison.
Your muscles are strong. (Str +2)


Message History

Okay, then.
Cast which spell? (? or * to list)
Okay, then.
There is a staircase back to the Dungeon here.
Items here: !!! " %%%% / ::::: == ??? [[[[[[ || }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
There is a staircase back to the Dungeon here.
Drop what? (_ for help) (? for menu, Esc to quit)
You drop the +3 scale mail of Ploph {rF+ rN+}.
You offer a prayer to Nemelex Xobeh.
The +3 scale mail of Ploph {rF+ rN+} glows with a rainbow of weird colours and disappears.
Nemelex Xobeh is exalted by your worship.
There is a staircase back to the Dungeon here.
There is a staircase back to the Dungeon here.
Wear which item? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
Okay, then.
(D) Dungeon        (T) Temple         (O) Orcish Mines   (E) Elven Halls   
(L) Lair           (S) Swamp          (N) Spider Nest    (M) Slime Pits     
(V) Vaults         (H) Hell           (U) Depths         
Where to? (Enter - Lair:1, ? - help)
Okay, then.

                 ################
 ######          #...............
##f##.##      ####..#####f#P##...
.......########....###########...
................@................
......##########}P...#.##.####...
......##...######................
.................................
......##...##.##.....##.#.##.#...
......##...##.###....##.######...
......##......# ##...f#.##.###...
##.#####...##.####...............
 #.## #.....>....................


There are no monsters in sight!

Vanquished Creatures
  the Lernaean hydra (Swamp:5)
  3 thorn hunters
  Rupert (Lair:6)
  Donald (Elf:1)
  An orc warlord (Orc:3)
  Jorgrun (Swamp:2)
  A spriggan defender (D:14)
  A deep elf demonologist (Orc:4)
  3 dire elephants
  A fire dragon (D:15)
  4 vault guards (D:14)
  A yaktaur captain (Depths:1)
  A great orb of eyes (Depths:1)
  Harold (Orc:2)
  23 hydras
  3 shambling mangroves
  8 alligators
  9 death yaks
  2 orc high priests (Orc:4)
  A catoblepas (Lair:8)
  2 centaur warriors
  Nergalle (D:11)
  7 deep elf knights
  A sun demon (Lair:8)
  Erolcha (Orc:3)
  2 very ugly things (D:15)
  The ghost of ThePrintersDevil the Archer, an experienced CeHu of Okawaru (Bailey)
  3 skeletal warriors
  A wizard (Lair:8)
  4 unseen horrors
  4 spriggan druids
  15 swamp dragons
  10 deep elf conjurers
  6 hill giants
  2 orc knights
  A lindwurm (Lair:8)
  6 deep elf summoners
  An oklob plant (Lair:5)
  A wolf spider (D:15)
  4 cyclopes
  2 griffons
  3 red wasps
  5 orc sorcerers
  5 salamanders
  3 black mambas
  A sixfirhy (Lair:8)
  Maurice (D:12)
  A gargoyle (D:8)
  5 elephants (Lair:7)
  3 vapours
  A feature mimic (Swamp:3)
  23 spiny frogs
  The ghost of prinygod the Transmogrifier, an experienced NaTm of Sif Muna (D:8)
  3 orange demons (Lair:8)
  An item mimic (Lair:4)
  A centaur zombie (D:13)
  A demonic crawler (Elf:1)
  9 deep elf priests
  A centaur skeleton (D:15)
  A guardian mummy (D:13)
  A hellwing (Lair:8)
  4 komodo dragons
  A red devil (Lair:8)
  A tengu conjurer (D:12)
  8 giant fireflies
  A fire drake (Lair:6)
  A freezing wraith (Lair:6)
  3 trolls
  6 giant leeches
  A merfolk (D:15)
  37 slime creatures
  5 polar bears
  Prince Ribbit (D:6)
  4 blue devils (Lair:8)
  6 bog bodies
  3 baby alligators
  A raven (shapeshifter) (Elf:2)
  14 blink frogs
  12 ravens
  4 trapdoor spiders
  2 griffon zombies
  2 wyverns
  A wraith (Abyss:1)
  A grizzly bear (shapeshifter) (D:14)
  35 ugly things
  14 deep elf magi
  A griffon skeleton (D:15)
  9 spriggans
  4 basilisks
  3 thorn lotuses
  Eustachio (D:4)
  3 hill giant zombies
  28 deep elf fighters
  A yak (shapeshifter) (Orc:4)
  A hungry ghost (D:9)
  7 hippogriffs
  3 shadows
  A hill giant skeleton (D:12)
  A tengu zombie (D:13)
  26 water moccasins
  A soldier ant (shapeshifter) (Elf:1)
  A necrophage (D:10)
  Edmund (D:8)
  8 wolves (Lair:8)
  33 yaks
  27 swamp worms
  4 wargs
  2 hell hounds (Lair:8)
  A soldier ant (D:12)
  A tengu skeleton (D:14)
  2 small abominations (Abyss:1)
  2 yellow wasps
  35 vampire mosquitoes
  12 swamp drakes
  34 orc warriors
  3 giant goldfish
  5 black bears
  10 porcupines
  4 sky beasts
  17 ogres
  17 centaurs
  4 ice beasts (Lair:6)
  2 phantoms
  19 crocodiles
  A boring beetle (Lair:8)
  A big kobold (D:10)
  8 giant slugs
  A komodo dragon zombie (D:11)
  A giant slug zombie (D:13)
  16 giant frogs
  A komodo dragon skeleton (D:9)
  10 scorpions
  30 insubstantial wisps
  An eye of draining (D:12)
  A water moccasin skeleton (D:9)
  17 killer bees
  6 wights
  2 electric eels
  3 goliath beetles
  2 jellies
  4 crimson imps
  A gnoll shaman (D:7)
  A giant frog skeleton (D:7)
  9 hounds
  13 iguanas
  A human zombie (Ossuary)
  31 orc wizards
  27 orc priests
  12 worker ants
  3 big fish
  6 orange rats
  A cyclops simulacrum (D:15)
  2 spectral orcs (D:11)
  2 ogre zombies
  13 sheep
  3 big kobold zombies (Ossuary)
  An ogre skeleton (D:11)
  A mottled dragon skeleton (D:9)
  5 mummies
  80 green rats
  23 adders
  7 gnolls
  A worker ant zombie (D:11)
  A worm zombie (D:7)
  4 shadow imps
  3 white imps (Lair:6)
  7 giant mites
  6 worms
  An iguana zombie (D:7)
  5 orc skeletons
  2 adder skeletons
  2 adder zombies (Ossuary)
  3 giant eyeballs
  9 giant geckos
  193 orcs
  A ball python (D:2)
  6 giant cockroaches
  23 goblins
  21 hobgoblins
  37 jackals
  An ooze (D:3)
  11 quokkas
  17 bats
  3 giant newts
  2 goblin zombies (Ossuary)
  8 hobgoblin zombies (Ossuary)
  30 kobolds
  12 kobold zombies (Ossuary)
  8 orc zombies
  31 rats
  2 rat zombies (Ossuary)
  14 ballistomycetes
  2 fungi
  2 plants
1529 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills)
  A black bear (Orc:3)
  A hound (D:11)
  A centaur skeleton (D:7)
  An orc skeleton (D:7)
  A bat skeleton (D:7)
  A kobold skeleton (D:7)
  A kobold zombie (Ossuary)
  An orc zombie (Ossuary)
  3 spectral orcs (D:11)
11 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  A dancing weapon (Elf:3)
  A black mamba (Lair:8)
  4 komodo dragons (Elf:3)
  A baby alligator (Swamp:5)
  A spriggan (Swamp:5)
  A hog (D:7)
  An elephant slug (Lair:8)
  A deep elf fighter (Elf:2)
  A wolf (Orc:3)
  A porcupine (D:10)
  2 sheep
  A green rat (D:10)
  A bat (Ossuary)
  4 giant spores
  An orc (Orc:2)
  A quokka (Ossuary)
  6 rats
  A ballistomycete (D:10)
  A briar patch (Swamp:4)
  6 fungi
  4 plants
  3 starspawn tentacles (Abyss:1)
  144 starspawn tentacle segments (Abyss:1)
188 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 1728 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | Blomdor, the Demonspawn Monk, began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 18/18 MP: 1/1
   359 | D:1      | Reached skill level 4 in Unarmed Combat
   398 | D:1      | Gained mutation: You can steal the life force of nearby defeated enemies. [demonic ancestry]
   398 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 20/24 MP: 2/2
   705 | D:2      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 15/29 MP: 3/3
  1026 | D:2      | Found a burning altar of Makhleb.
  1106 | D:2      | Reached skill level 5 in Unarmed Combat
  1396 | D:3      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 35/35 MP: 4/4
  1943 | D:4      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 41/41 MP: 5/5
  1981 | D:4      | Noticed Eustachio
  2031 | D:4      | Killed Eustachio
  2031 | D:4      | Reached skill level 6 in Unarmed Combat
  2031 | D:4      | Gained mutation: You can tolerate rotten meat. [demonic ancestry]
  2031 | D:4      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 16/47 MP: 6/6
  2245 | D:4      | Found Khuy's Elemental Accessories.
  2427 | D:4      | Reached skill level 7 in Unarmed Combat
  2473 | D:4      | Gained mutation: You are partially covered in yellow scales (AC +2). [demonic ancestry]
  2473 | D:4      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 46/52 MP: 7/7
  2546 | D:4      | Reached skill level 8 in Unarmed Combat
  2890 | D:4      | Gained mutation: Your flesh is cold resistant. [potion of mutation]
  2890 | D:4      | Gained mutation: You possess an exceptional clarity of mind. [potion of mutation]
  2890 | D:4      | Gained mutation: You have a fast metabolism. [potion of mutation]
  3086 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  3861 | D:6      | Paralysed by a potion of paralysis for 3 turns
  3874 | D:6      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 16/58 MP: 8/8
  4118 | D:6      | Noticed a troll
  4239 | D:6      | Found a glowing silver altar of Zin.
  4249 | D:6      | Killed a troll
  4249 | D:6      | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
  4263 | D:6      | Identified a scroll of acquirement
  4264 | D:6      | Got a bloodstained helmet
  4267 | D:6      | Identified the +2 helmet of Grarph {Dam+3} (You acquired it on level 6 of the Dungeon)
  4276 | D:6      | Noticed Prince Ribbit
  4285 | D:6      | Killed Prince Ribbit
  4301 | D:6      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  4316 | Temple   | Entered the Ecumenical Temple
  4563 | D:6      | Found Qefoutun's Antique Weapon Boutique.
  4651 | D:6      | Identified the Volume of Creation
  4781 | D:6      | Learned a level 1 spell: Summon Small Mammal
  5080 | D:7      | Found a deep blue altar of Sif Muna.
  5358 | D:7      | Reached skill level 1 in Spellcasting
  5358 | D:7      | Reached skill level 1 in Summonings
  5596 | D:7      | Found a sparkling altar of Nemelex Xobeh.
  5607 | D:7      | Learned a level 7 spell: Summon Hydra
  5607 | D:7      | Became a worshipper of Nemelex Xobeh the Trickster
  5607 | D:7      | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
  5607 | D:7      | Acquired Nemelex Xobeh's first power
  5682 | D:7      | Acquired Nemelex Xobeh's second power
  5782 | D:7      | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
  5893 | D:7      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 55/63 MP: 13/15
  5895 | D:7      | Acquired Nemelex Xobeh's third power
  6422 | D:2      | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
  7146 | D:5      | Acquired Nemelex Xobeh's fourth power
  7655 | D:7      | Reached skill level 5 in Summonings
  7730 | D:7      | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog.
  8022 | D:8      | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
  8042 | D:8      | Noticed Edmund
  8055 | D:8      | Killed Edmund
  8292 | D:8      | Noticed a gargoyle
  8336 | D:8      | Killed a gargoyle
  8336 | D:8      | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
  8538 | D:8      | Found a sand-covered staircase.
  8565 | Ossuary  | Entered an ossuary
  8855 | D:8      | Noticed prinygod's ghost (experienced NaTm)
  8886 | D:8      | Killed prinygod's ghost
  8886 | D:8      | Reached skill level 9 in Unarmed Combat
  8965 | D:8      | Found an iron altar of Okawaru.
  8973 | D:8      | Found a snail-covered altar of Cheibriados.
  9246 | D:8      | Gained mutation: You have a pair of small horns on your head. [demonic ancestry]
  9246 | D:8      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 76/76 MP: 16/16
  9774 | D:9      | Found Brusuu's General Store.
  9777 | D:9      | Bought a potion of heal wounds for 45 gold pieces
  9777 | D:9      | Bought a scroll of enchant armour for 112 gold pieces
  9836 | D:9      | Reached skill level 10 in Unarmed Combat
  9933 | D:9      | Learned a level 2 spell: Blink
  9936 | D:9      | Learned a level 2 spell: Repel Missiles
 10059 | D:9      | Acquired Nemelex Xobeh's fifth power
 10513 | D:10     | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
 10609 | D:10     | Reached skill level 11 in Unarmed Combat
 10725 | D:10     | Reached skill level 12 in Unarmed Combat
 10777 | D:10     | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 10783 | D:10     | Found a staircase to the Lair.
 10838 | D:10     | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
 10896 | D:10     | Noticed a hill giant
 10908 | D:10     | Killed a hill giant
 10908 | D:10     | Reached XP level 11. HP: 62/81 MP: 18/18
 11037 | D:10     | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 11039 | D:10     | Lost mutation: You have a fast metabolism. [helix card]
 11039 | D:10     | Gained mutation: You have a fast metabolism. [helix card]
 11041 | D:10     | Reached skill level 16 in Unarmed Combat
 11041 | D:10     | Gained mutation: You can steal the life force of defeated enemies. [demonic ancestry]
 11041 | D:10     | Reached XP level 12. HP: 88/88 MP: 14/18
 11043 | D:10     | Reached XP level 13. HP: 93/93 MP: 11/20
 11660 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts
 11905 | Lair:1   | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 12886 | Lair:2   | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 12888 | Lair:2   | Cast into the Abyss (drawing a card)
 12888 | Abyss:1  | Found a corrupted altar of Lugonu.
 12981 | Abyss:1  | Noticed a lich
 12990 | Abyss:1  | Noticed a tentacled starspawn
 13056 | Lair:2   | Escaped the Abyss
 13399 | Lair:3   | Found a hole to the Spider Nest.
 13501 | Lair:3   | Found a shadowy altar of Dithmenos.
 14588 | Lair:4   | Found a snail-covered altar of Cheibriados.
 14777 | Lair:4   | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 14910 | Lair:4   | Shuffle card: Str 13[13], Int 12[12], Dex 19[19]
 14912 | Lair:4   | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting
 14912 | Lair:4   | Reached XP level 14. HP: 102/110 MP: 16/23
 16626 | Lair:5   | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 16820 | Lair:6   | Noticed Rupert
 16841 | Lair:6   | Killed Rupert
 17534 | Lair:6   | Got a heavy robe
 17540 | Lair:6   | Identified the cursed -3 robe of Unambiguity {rF++ Int-3} (You found it on level 6 of the Lair of Beasts)
 17722 | Lair:6   | Found a staircase to the Swamp.
 18010 | Lair:7   | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 18122 | Lair:7   | Gained mutation: You have a pair of horns on your head. [demonic ancestry]
 18122 | Lair:7   | Reached XP level 15. HP: 89/120 MP: 23/23
 18124 | Lair:7   | Lost mutation: You possess an exceptional clarity of mind. [helix card]
 18270 | Lair:7   | Reached skill level 10 in Dodging
 18981 | Lair:7   | Got a heavily runed leather armour
 18993 | Lair:7   | Identified the cursed -2 leather armour of Hedge Wizardry {rElec} (You found it on level 7 of the Lair of Beasts)
 19755 | Lair:8   | Entered Level 8 of the Lair of Beasts
 20650 | Lair:8   | Found a viscous altar of Jiyva.
 20651 | Lair:8   | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits.
 20664 | Lair:8   | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 21683 | Lair:8   | Found a burning altar of Makhleb.
 22072 | Lair:8   | Got a steaming scale mail
 22081 | Lair:8   | Identified the +3 scale mail of Ploph {rF+ rN+} (You took it off a red devil on level 8 of the Lair of Beasts)
 22698 | Lair:8   | Reached XP level 16. HP: 94/127 MP: 24/24
 22712 | Lair:8   | Found a gateway to Hell.
 23059 | Orc:1    | Entered Level 1 of the Orcish Mines
 23096 | Lair:1   | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 23156 | Orc:1    | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 23170 | Orc:1    | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 23361 | Orc:1    | Found Grobb's Antique Weapon Shop.
 23525 | Orc:2    | Noticed Harold
 23534 | Orc:2    | Killed Harold
 23534 | Orc:2    | Reached skill level 1 in Shields
 24023 | Orc:3    | Found Twaej's Magic Scroll Boutique.
 24053 | Orc:3    | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 24069 | Orc:3    | Found Inolexy's Distillery.
 24115 | Orc:3    | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 24135 | Orc:3    | Noticed Erolcha
 24142 | Orc:3    | Paralysed by Erolcha for 5 turns
 24154 | Orc:3    | Killed Erolcha
 24304 | Orc:4    | Entered Level 4 of the Orcish Mines
 24305 | Orc:4    | Found Duph's Jewellery Boutique.
 24576 | Orc:4    | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 24642 | Orc:4    | Found a staircase to the Elven Halls.
 24810 | Orc:4    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 24840 | Orc:4    | Found Iliz's Weapon Shop.
 24867 | Orc:4    | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 25055 | Orc:4    | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 25753 | Orc:3    | Bought a scroll of acquirement for 728 gold pieces
 25907 | Orc:4    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 26069 | Orc:4    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 26079 | Orc:4    | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 26182 | Orc:4    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 26214 | Orc:4    | Found Mexzokas' Armour Shop.
 26231 | Orc:4    | Bought a +1 cloak of preservation for 547 gold pieces
 26371 | Orc:4    | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 26433 | Orc:4    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 26435 | Orc:4    | Found Dogada Liet's Antique Armour Boutique.
 26438 | Orc:4    | Found Wapletwo's Antique Weapon Shop.
 26451 | Orc:4    | Bought a pair of warped boots for 218 gold pieces
 26455 | Orc:4    | Identified the +2 pair of boots of Sif Muna's Envy {Str-2 Int+2} (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Orcish Mines)
 26455 | Orc:4    | Bought a pair of glowing boots for 103 gold pieces
 26514 | Orc:4    | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 26518 | Orc:4    | Lost mutation: You have a fast metabolism. [helix card]
 26518 | Orc:4    | Gained mutation: You are somewhat resistant to further mutation. [helix card]
 26520 | Orc:4    | Lost mutation: You are somewhat resistant to further mutation. [helix card]
 26550 | Elf:1    | Entered Level 1 of the Elven Halls
 26581 | Elf:1    | Reached skill level 5 in Shields
 26645 | Elf:1    | Noticed an Ice Fiend
 26655 | Elf:1    | Noticed an Ice Fiend
 27330 | Elf:1    | Found Shreadag's Jewellery Emporium.
 27332 | Elf:1    | Noticed Donald
 27371 | Elf:1    | Killed Donald
 28066 | Elf:2    | Reached skill level 10 in Armour
 29470 | Elf:1    | Reached skill level 17 in Unarmed Combat
 30046 | Elf:2    | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 30549 | Elf:2    | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 31041 | Elf:3    | Entered Level 3 of the Elven Halls
 31115 | Elf:3    | Found a flickering gateway to a bazaar.
 31121 | Bazaar   | Entered a bazaar
 31121 | Bazaar   | Found Wesuagiosa's Weapon Boutique.
 31121 | Bazaar   | Found Kyopoatu's Jewellery Boutique.
 31137 | Bazaar   | Found Zuattuth's General Store.
 31145 | Bazaar   | Bought a scroll of enchant armour for 82 gold pieces
 31201 | Bazaar   | Found Dizogog's Armour Emporium.
 31210 | Bazaar   | Bought a +0 pair of gloves for 40 gold pieces
 31284 | Elf:3    | Reached skill level 1 in Slings
 31535 | Elf:3    | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 31862 | Elf:3    | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 31865 | Elf:3    | Noticed an Executioner
 32602 | Orc:1    | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 33114 | D:11     | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 33150 | D:11     | Noticed Nergalle
 33281 | D:11     | Killed Nergalle
 33532 | D:12     | Noticed Maurice
 33561 | D:12     | Killed Maurice
 33850 | D:12     | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 34549 | D:13     | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 3 turns
 34572 | D:13     | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 3 turns
 35215 | D:13     | Gained mutation: You emit a foul stench, and are resistant to rotting and decay. [demonic ancestry]
 35215 | D:13     | Reached XP level 17. HP: 76/133 MP: 25/25
 35694 | D:13     | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 35854 | D:14     | Found a flagged portal.
 35880 | Bailey   | Entered a bailey
 35883 | Bailey   | Noticed ThePrintersDevil's ghost (experienced CeHu)
 35905 | Bailey   | Killed ThePrintersDevil's ghost
 36201 | Bailey   | Got a wavering bone ring
 36202 | Bailey   | Identified the ring of Stieg {rPois Str-4 Dex+1 Int-4} (You found it in a bailey)
 36279 | D:14     | Reached skill level 18 in Unarmed Combat
 36321 | D:14     | Found a gate to the Vaults.
 36440 | D:14     | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 36631 | D:14     | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 36644 | D:14     | Gained mutation: Your muscles are strong. (Str +2) [potion of beneficial mutation]
 37344 | D:13     | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 3 turns
 37665 | D:15     | Entered Level 15 of the Dungeon
 37715 | D:15     | Found Cribbuac's Jewellery Emporium.
 37845 | D:15     | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 37847 | D:15     | Gained mutation: You can spit poison. [helix card]
 38199 | D:15     | Found a staircase to the Depths.
 38245 | D:15     | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 38606 | Depths:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Depths
 38943 | Depths:1 | Noticed the Enchantress
 39636 | D:14     | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 39984 | Swamp:1  | Entered Level 1 of the Swamp
 40027 | Swamp:1  | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 40035 | Swamp:1  | Gained mutation: You can steal the life force of all defeated enemies in sight. [demonic ancestry]
 40035 | Swamp:1  | Reached XP level 18. HP: 140/140 MP: 24/25
 40264 | Swamp:1  | Reached skill level 19 in Unarmed Combat
 41598 | Swamp:2  | Noticed Jorgrun
 41626 | Swamp:2  | Killed Jorgrun
 41638 | Swamp:2  | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 41650 | Swamp:2  | Paralysed by a red wasp for 1 turns
 41662 | Swamp:2  | Paralysed by a red wasp for 1 turns
 43344 | Swamp:3  | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 44679 | Swamp:4  | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 44851 | Swamp:4  | Reached skill level 20 in Unarmed Combat
 45822 | Swamp:4  | Learned a level 4 spell: Summon Ice Beast
 46383 | Swamp:5  | Entered Level 5 of the Swamp
 46440 | Swamp:5  | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 48372 | Swamp:5  | Noticed the 27-headed Lernaean hydra
 48389 | Swamp:5  | Killed the 27-headed Lernaean hydra
 48698 | Swamp:5  | Gained mutation: You are mostly covered in yellow scales (AC +3). [demonic ancestry]
 48698 | Swamp:5  | Reached XP level 19. HP: 31/150 MP: 26/26
 49821 | Swamp:5  | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 50034 | Swamp:5  | Got a decaying rune of Zot
 50546 | Orc:4    | Bought a fire dragon armour for 1380 gold pieces


Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 | 19-21 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Unarmed           |   179 |   241 |   748 |   408 |  1316 |  3394 |   132 ||  6418
 Cast: Summon Small Mamm |       |       |    13 |       |       |       |       ||    13
Invok: Draw One          |       |       |    18 |     2 |    16 |    62 |     1 ||    99
       Triple Draw       |       |       |       |     3 |     6 |    11 |       ||    20
Evoke: Wand              |       |       |     1 |       |    19 |     5 |       ||    25
       Deck              |       |       |       |     5 |     8 |    11 |       ||    24
  Use: Potion            |     4 |       |    10 |     3 |    12 |    24 |     1 ||    54
       Scroll            |     3 |       |    16 |     4 |    15 |    29 |     4 ||    71
 Stab: Sleeping          |     2 |     4 |     8 |     2 |     9 |     1 |       ||    26
       Distracted        |       |       |     4 |       |     4 |     1 |       ||     9
       Invisible         |       |       |       |       |       |     2 |       ||     2
       Confused          |       |       |       |       |       |     3 |       ||     3


The ring's one lousy piece of crap, but it's my only source of poison resistance and I got stuck with Swamp and Spider. I probably blew too many consumables in Swamp before I broke down and put it on. Not sure if it will be as necessary in Spider, or even more so. After that, I'll put on something better over it.

Anything I'm doing wrong, here?

I keep forgetting to memorize abjuration. Doing that right now.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 8786

Joined: Sunday, 5th May 2013, 08:25

Post Thursday, 24th April 2014, 01:37

Re: A quick question about armour for monks

Blomdor wrote:Anything I'm doing wrong, here?
Wearing that ring

Slime Squisher

Posts: 374

Joined: Saturday, 29th March 2014, 20:53

Post Thursday, 24th April 2014, 01:40

Re: A quick question about armour for monks

Well, if ye say it will not be necessary in Spider, I shall take it off. I really needed the thing for surviving swamp dragon breath, though. The vault had about a dozen of them, I think.

Thankee!

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 11111

Joined: Friday, 8th February 2013, 12:00

Post Thursday, 24th April 2014, 01:44

Re: A quick question about armour for monks

Train Evocations, I hope you have some decks at max piety with Nemelex. Also use Stack Five on decks of escape

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 5382

Joined: Friday, 25th November 2011, 07:36

Post Thursday, 24th April 2014, 02:41

Re: A quick question about armour for monks

crate wrote:what I do for UC characters is I select armour without ever caring about the UC-specific penalties, because the UC-specific penalties are complicated and rarely actually change your armour decision

Agreed - I'd pick armor based on what armor is best. But let's say you get some amazing yet heavy plate randart, are you saying you wouldn't train more armor skill than if you ended up in mottled dragon armor?

My point is that you can make pretty much any armor work, so pick the one you like the best/got a good drop from the RNG god, and then train your armor skill based on how heavy that armor is.

Slime Squisher

Posts: 374

Joined: Saturday, 29th March 2014, 20:53

Post Thursday, 24th April 2014, 02:44

Re: A quick question about armour for monks

Spider was a cakewalk compared to Swamp, and Duvessa's advice to take off the cruddy ring was invaluable as it was indeed completely unnecessary there. Without ranged poison damage outside of Arachne, it was much safer to go rPois-less. While there, I picked up 10 levels of evocations to make my card use more powerful and much more reliable.

  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.14.0-24-gfb45beb (webtiles) character file.

Blomdor the Black Belt (Demonspawn Monk)           Turns: 61019, Time: 05:56:56

HP 163/163       AC 31     Str 15      XL: 20   Next: 21%
MP  32/32        EV 21     Int 12      God: Nemelex Xobeh [******]
Gold 512         SH 15     Dex 23      Spells:  6 memorised,  6 levels left

rFire  + + .     SeeInvis +       - Unarmed
rCold  . . .     Clarity  .     p - +5 fire dragon armour
rNeg   . . .     Conserve +     f - +2 buckler {AC+3}
rPois  .         rCorr    +     (helmet unavailable)
rElec  .         rRot     +     D - +2 cloak {rCorr, Cons} (curse)
SustAb . .       Spirit   .     C - +0 pair of gloves
rMut   .         Warding  .     R - +2 pair of boots {Fly}
Saprov + . .     Stasis   .     k - amulet of conservation
MR     ++...                    h - ring of see invisible
                                r - ring of protection from magic

@: flying, very resistant to hostile enchantments, very unstealthy
A: horns 3, yellow scales 2, cold resistance 1, foul stench 1, powered by death
3, saprovore 1, spit poison 1, strong 1
a: Spit Poison, Draw One, Peek at Two, Triple Draw, Deal Four, Stack Five,
Renounce Religion, Stop Flying
}: 2/15 runes: decaying, gossamer


You are on level 1 of the Elven Halls.
You worship Nemelex Xobeh.
Nemelex Xobeh is exalted by your worship.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 8 branches of the dungeon, and seen 42 of its levels.
You have visited the Abyss 1 time.
You have visited 1 bazaar.
You have also visited: Ossuary and Bailey.

You have collected 3819 gold pieces.
You have spent 3255 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Armour
 f - a +2 buckler of protection (worn)
 p - a +5 fire dragon armour (worn)
 C - a +0 pair of gloves (worn)
 D - a cursed +2 cloak of preservation (worn)
 R - a +2 pair of boots of flying (worn)
Magical devices
 a - a wand of hasting (5)
 s - a wand of digging (15)
 X - a wand of teleportation
Comestibles
 b - 2 bread rations
 W - 3 pieces of ambrosia
 Y - a meat ration
Scrolls
 i - a scroll of magic mapping
 l - 11 scrolls of teleportation
 n - 2 scrolls of blinking
 o - 9 scrolls of remove curse
 t - a scroll of enchant weapon I
 w - 6 scrolls of fog
 E - 2 scrolls of amnesia
 I - a scroll of vulnerability
 U - 9 scrolls of identify
Jewellery
 h - a ring of see invisible (right hand)
 k - an amulet of conservation (around neck)
 r - a ring of protection from magic (left hand)
 v - an uncursed ring of protection from magic
 x - the ring of Stieg {rPois Str-4 Dex+1 Int-4}
   (You found it in a bailey)   
   
   [ring of poison resistance]
   It affects your strength (-4).
   It affects your intelligence (-4).
   It affects your dexterity (+1).
 L - a ring of positive energy
 M - an uncursed ring of positive energy
 N - an uncursed amulet of clarity
 Q - an uncursed ring of protection from cold
Potions
 c - 2 potions of invisibility
 g - 3 potions of restore abilities
 z - 5 potions of might
 B - 3 potions of agility
 F - 4 potions of heal wounds
 G - a potion of haste
 H - a potion of curing
 S - 2 potions of berserk rage
 T - 2 potions of brilliance
Miscellaneous
 d - an ornate deck of summonings {drawn: 1}
 e - an ornate deck of summonings {drawn: 1}
 j - a legendary deck of destruction {drawn: 6}
 m - an ornate deck of escape {drawn: 1}
 q - an ornate deck of escape {drawn: 1}
 u - a legendary deck of escape {drawn: 1}
 y - a legendary deck of summonings {drawn: 1}
 A - a legendary deck of destruction {drawn: 1}
 J - a legendary deck of summonings {drawn: 1}
 K - a legendary deck of destruction {drawn: 1}
 O - a legendary deck of escape {drawn: 1}
 P - a legendary deck of summonings {drawn: 1}
 V - a lamp of fire


   Skills:
 + Level 15.5 Fighting
   Level 3.5 Slings
 - Level 10.1 Armour
 - Level 15.2 Dodging
 - Level 1.7 Stealth
 - Level 5.1 Shields
 + Level 20.1 Unarmed Combat
 - Level 3.3 Spellcasting
 - Level 7.5 Summonings
 - Level 10.0 Evocations


You have 6 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Summon Small Mammal   Summ           ###.         3%          1    #......
b - Summon Hydra          Summ           ###.......   100%        7    #######
c - Blink                 Tloc           N/A          94%         2    ##.....
d - Repel Missiles        Chrm/Air       #.....       94%         2    ##.....
e - Summon Ice Beast      Ice/Summ       ##......     98%         4    #####..
f - Abjuration            Summ           ###.......   12%         3    ###....


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (1/1) D:6             Orc (4/4) D:10
    Elf (3/3) Orc:4          Lair (8/8) D:10          Swamp (5/5) Lair:6
 Spider (5/5) Lair:3        Slime (0/6) Lair:8       Vaults (0/5) D:14
 Depths (1/5) D:15       

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Sif Muna
Trog
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One
Beogh
Jiyva

Shops:
D:4 *   D:6 (   D:9 *   D:15 =   Orc:1 (   Orc:3 ?!   Orc:4 =[(([
Elf:1 =

Portals:
Hell: Lair:8

Annotations:
Lair:6 exclusion: ice statue
Depths:1 the Enchantress


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You have a pair of large horns on your head.
You are mostly covered in yellow scales (AC +3).
You emit a foul stench, and are resistant to rotting and decay.
You can steal the life force of all defeated enemies in sight.
You can tolerate rotten meat.
Your flesh is cold resistant.
You can spit poison.
Your muscles are strong. (Str +2)


Message History

Items here: !!! " %%%% / ::::: == ??? [[[[[[ || }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
There is a staircase back to the Dungeon here.
You fly upwards. Welcome back to the Dungeon!
There is a staircase to the Lair here.
There is a staircase to the Orcish Mines here.
You fly downwards. Welcome to the Orcish Mines!
There is a staircase back to the Dungeon here.
There is a stone staircase leading down here.
You fly downwards.
There is a stone staircase leading up here.
There is a stone staircase leading down here.
You fly downwards.
There is a stone staircase leading up here.
There is a stone staircase leading down here.
You fly downwards.
There is a stone staircase leading up here.
There is a stone staircase leading up, spattered with blood here.
There is a staircase to the Elven Halls here.
You fly downwards. Welcome to the Elven Halls!
There is a staircase back to the Mines here.

    ########..#...#
           #..#.###
           #..#....
  ##########..#.###
 ##...≈≈≈..#.......
##....≈≈≈..#....###
#....≈≈≈≈≈.#.......
#....≈≈≈≈≈.#....###
#.@..≈≈≈≈≈.#....#
#....≈≈≈≈≈.#....#
#....≈≈≈≈≈...##.#
##....≈≈≈..#.##.#
 ##...≈≈≈....##.#
  #############.#
              #.#
              #.#
              #.#


There are no monsters in sight!

Vanquished Creatures
  the Lernaean hydra (Swamp:5)
  Arachne (Spider:3)
  3 thorn hunters
  Rupert (Lair:6)
  Donald (Elf:1)
  An orc warlord (Orc:3)
  The ghost of BobtheCannibal the Fighter, a powerful DsWn of Okawaru (Spider:2)
  5 emperor scorpions
  Jorgrun (Swamp:2)
  A spriggan defender (D:14)
  4 ghost moths
  A deep elf demonologist (Orc:4)
  3 dire elephants
  A fire dragon (D:15)
  4 vault guards (D:14)
  A yaktaur captain (Depths:1)
  A great orb of eyes (Depths:1)
  Harold (Orc:2)
  23 hydras
  3 shambling mangroves
  8 alligators
  9 death yaks
  2 orc high priests (Orc:4)
  A catoblepas (Lair:8)
  2 centaur warriors
  Nergalle (D:11)
  7 deep elf knights
  A sun demon (Lair:8)
  Erolcha (Orc:3)
  2 very ugly things (D:15)
  The ghost of ThePrintersDevil the Archer, an experienced CeHu of Okawaru (Bailey)
  3 skeletal warriors
  23 orb spiders
  A wizard (Lair:8)
  4 unseen horrors
  4 spriggan druids
  15 swamp dragons
  10 deep elf conjurers
  6 hill giants
  2 orc knights
  A lindwurm (Lair:8)
  6 deep elf summoners
  An oklob plant (Lair:5)
  44 wolf spiders
  4 cyclopes
  2 griffons
  10 red wasps
  5 orc sorcerers
  5 salamanders
  3 black mambas
  A sixfirhy (Lair:8)
  Maurice (D:12)
  A gargoyle (D:8)
  5 elephants (Lair:7)
  3 vapours
  A feature mimic (Swamp:3)
  23 spiny frogs
  The ghost of prinygod the Transmogrifier, an experienced NaTm of Sif Muna (D:8)
  3 orange demons (Lair:8)
  A queen ant (Spider:5)
  An item mimic (Lair:4)
  A centaur zombie (D:13)
  9 demonic crawlers
  9 deep elf priests
  A centaur skeleton (D:15)
  A guardian mummy (D:13)
  A hellwing (Lair:8)
  4 komodo dragons
  A red devil (Lair:8)
  A tengu conjurer (D:12)
  8 giant fireflies
  A fire drake (Lair:6)
  A freezing wraith (Lair:6)
  3 trolls
  31 jumping spiders
  6 giant leeches
  A merfolk (D:15)
  37 slime creatures
  5 polar bears
  Prince Ribbit (D:6)
  4 blue devils (Lair:8)
  6 bog bodies
  3 baby alligators
  A raven (shapeshifter) (Elf:2)
  14 blink frogs
  12 ravens
  24 trapdoor spiders
  2 griffon zombies
  2 wyverns
  A wraith (Abyss:1)
  A grizzly bear (shapeshifter) (D:14)
  23 tarantellas
  35 ugly things
  14 deep elf magi
  A griffon skeleton (D:15)
  9 spriggans
  4 basilisks
  47 redbacks
  3 thorn lotuses
  Eustachio (D:4)
  3 hill giant zombies
  2 sharks
  28 deep elf fighters
  A yak (shapeshifter) (Orc:4)
  A hungry ghost (D:9)
  7 hippogriffs
  3 shadows
  A hill giant skeleton (D:12)
  A tengu zombie (D:13)
  26 water moccasins
  A soldier ant (shapeshifter) (Elf:1)
  A necrophage (D:10)
  Edmund (D:8)
  8 wolves (Lair:8)
  33 yaks
  27 swamp worms
  4 wargs
  2 hell hounds (Lair:8)
  27 soldier ants
  A tengu skeleton (D:14)
  2 small abominations (Abyss:1)
  3 yellow wasps
  35 vampire mosquitoes
  12 swamp drakes
  36 spiders
  34 orc warriors
  7 giant goldfish
  5 black bears
  10 porcupines
  4 sky beasts
  17 ogres
  17 centaurs
  4 ice beasts (Lair:6)
  2 phantoms
  19 crocodiles
  2 boring beetles
  A big kobold (D:10)
  8 giant slugs
  A komodo dragon zombie (D:11)
  A giant slug zombie (D:13)
  16 giant frogs
  A komodo dragon skeleton (D:9)
  15 scorpions
  30 insubstantial wisps
  An eye of draining (D:12)
  A water moccasin skeleton (D:9)
  17 killer bees
  6 wights
  5 electric eels
  6 goliath beetles
  2 jellies
  4 crimson imps
  A gnoll shaman (D:7)
  A giant frog skeleton (D:7)
  9 hounds
  13 iguanas
  A human zombie (Ossuary)
  31 orc wizards
  27 orc priests
  24 worker ants
  8 big fish
  6 orange rats
  A cyclops simulacrum (D:15)
  2 spectral orcs (D:11)
  2 ogre zombies
  13 sheep
  3 big kobold zombies (Ossuary)
  An ogre skeleton (D:11)
  A mottled dragon skeleton (D:9)
  5 mummies
  80 green rats
  23 adders
  7 gnolls
  A worker ant zombie (D:11)
  A worm zombie (D:7)
  4 shadow imps
  3 white imps (Lair:6)
  7 giant mites
  6 worms
  An iguana zombie (D:7)
  5 orc skeletons
  2 adder skeletons
  2 adder zombies (Ossuary)
  3 giant eyeballs
  9 giant geckos
  193 orcs
  A ball python (D:2)
  6 giant cockroaches
  23 goblins
  21 hobgoblins
  37 jackals
  An ooze (D:3)
  11 quokkas
  17 bats
  3 giant newts
  2 goblin zombies (Ossuary)
  8 hobgoblin zombies (Ossuary)
  30 kobolds
  12 kobold zombies (Ossuary)
  8 orc zombies
  31 rats
  2 rat zombies (Ossuary)
  14 ballistomycetes
  2 fungi
  2 plants
1841 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills)
  A tarantella (Spider:4)
  A black bear (Orc:3)
  A hound (D:11)
  A centaur skeleton (D:7)
  An orc skeleton (D:7)
  A bat skeleton (D:7)
  A kobold skeleton (D:7)
  A kobold zombie (Ossuary)
  An orc zombie (Ossuary)
  3 spectral orcs (D:11)
12 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  A dancing weapon (Elf:3)
  A black mamba (Lair:8)
  2 demonic crawlers (Spider:5)
  A jumping spider (Spider:5)
  4 komodo dragons (Elf:3)
  A baby alligator (Swamp:5)
  A redback (Spider:4)
  A trapdoor spider (Spider:5)
  A spriggan (Swamp:5)
  A hog (D:7)
  An elephant slug (Lair:8)
  A deep elf fighter (Elf:2)
  A wolf (Orc:3)
  A porcupine (D:10)
  A crimson imp (Spider:4)
  2 sheep
  A green rat (D:10)
  A bat (Ossuary)
  4 giant spores
  An orc (Orc:2)
  A quokka (Ossuary)
  6 rats
  A ballistomycete (D:10)
  A briar patch (Swamp:4)
  6 fungi
  4 plants
  3 starspawn tentacles (Abyss:1)
  144 starspawn tentacle segments (Abyss:1)
194 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 2047 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | Blomdor, the Demonspawn Monk, began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 18/18 MP: 1/1
   359 | D:1      | Reached skill level 4 in Unarmed Combat
   398 | D:1      | Gained mutation: You can steal the life force of nearby defeated enemies. [demonic ancestry]
   398 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 20/24 MP: 2/2
   705 | D:2      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 15/29 MP: 3/3
  1026 | D:2      | Found a burning altar of Makhleb.
  1106 | D:2      | Reached skill level 5 in Unarmed Combat
  1396 | D:3      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 35/35 MP: 4/4
  1943 | D:4      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 41/41 MP: 5/5
  1981 | D:4      | Noticed Eustachio
  2031 | D:4      | Killed Eustachio
  2031 | D:4      | Reached skill level 6 in Unarmed Combat
  2031 | D:4      | Gained mutation: You can tolerate rotten meat. [demonic ancestry]
  2031 | D:4      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 16/47 MP: 6/6
  2245 | D:4      | Found Khuy's Elemental Accessories.
  2427 | D:4      | Reached skill level 7 in Unarmed Combat
  2473 | D:4      | Gained mutation: You are partially covered in yellow scales (AC +2). [demonic ancestry]
  2473 | D:4      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 46/52 MP: 7/7
  2546 | D:4      | Reached skill level 8 in Unarmed Combat
  2890 | D:4      | Gained mutation: Your flesh is cold resistant. [potion of mutation]
  2890 | D:4      | Gained mutation: You possess an exceptional clarity of mind. [potion of mutation]
  2890 | D:4      | Gained mutation: You have a fast metabolism. [potion of mutation]
  3086 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  3861 | D:6      | Paralysed by a potion of paralysis for 3 turns
  3874 | D:6      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 16/58 MP: 8/8
  4118 | D:6      | Noticed a troll
  4239 | D:6      | Found a glowing silver altar of Zin.
  4249 | D:6      | Killed a troll
  4249 | D:6      | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
  4263 | D:6      | Identified a scroll of acquirement
  4264 | D:6      | Got a bloodstained helmet
  4267 | D:6      | Identified the +2 helmet of Grarph {Dam+3} (You acquired it on level 6 of the Dungeon)
  4276 | D:6      | Noticed Prince Ribbit
  4285 | D:6      | Killed Prince Ribbit
  4301 | D:6      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  4316 | Temple   | Entered the Ecumenical Temple
  4563 | D:6      | Found Qefoutun's Antique Weapon Boutique.
  4651 | D:6      | Identified the Volume of Creation
  4781 | D:6      | Learned a level 1 spell: Summon Small Mammal
  5080 | D:7      | Found a deep blue altar of Sif Muna.
  5358 | D:7      | Reached skill level 1 in Spellcasting
  5358 | D:7      | Reached skill level 1 in Summonings
  5596 | D:7      | Found a sparkling altar of Nemelex Xobeh.
  5607 | D:7      | Learned a level 7 spell: Summon Hydra
  5607 | D:7      | Became a worshipper of Nemelex Xobeh the Trickster
  5607 | D:7      | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
  5607 | D:7      | Acquired Nemelex Xobeh's first power
  5682 | D:7      | Acquired Nemelex Xobeh's second power
  5782 | D:7      | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
  5893 | D:7      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 55/63 MP: 13/15
  5895 | D:7      | Acquired Nemelex Xobeh's third power
  6422 | D:2      | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
  7146 | D:5      | Acquired Nemelex Xobeh's fourth power
  7655 | D:7      | Reached skill level 5 in Summonings
  7730 | D:7      | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog.
  8022 | D:8      | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
  8042 | D:8      | Noticed Edmund
  8055 | D:8      | Killed Edmund
  8292 | D:8      | Noticed a gargoyle
  8336 | D:8      | Killed a gargoyle
  8336 | D:8      | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
  8538 | D:8      | Found a sand-covered staircase.
  8565 | Ossuary  | Entered an ossuary
  8855 | D:8      | Noticed prinygod's ghost (experienced NaTm)
  8886 | D:8      | Killed prinygod's ghost
  8886 | D:8      | Reached skill level 9 in Unarmed Combat
  8965 | D:8      | Found an iron altar of Okawaru.
  8973 | D:8      | Found a snail-covered altar of Cheibriados.
  9246 | D:8      | Gained mutation: You have a pair of small horns on your head. [demonic ancestry]
  9246 | D:8      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 76/76 MP: 16/16
  9774 | D:9      | Found Brusuu's General Store.
  9777 | D:9      | Bought a potion of heal wounds for 45 gold pieces
  9777 | D:9      | Bought a scroll of enchant armour for 112 gold pieces
  9836 | D:9      | Reached skill level 10 in Unarmed Combat
  9933 | D:9      | Learned a level 2 spell: Blink
  9936 | D:9      | Learned a level 2 spell: Repel Missiles
 10059 | D:9      | Acquired Nemelex Xobeh's fifth power
 10513 | D:10     | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
 10609 | D:10     | Reached skill level 11 in Unarmed Combat
 10725 | D:10     | Reached skill level 12 in Unarmed Combat
 10777 | D:10     | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 10783 | D:10     | Found a staircase to the Lair.
 10838 | D:10     | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
 10896 | D:10     | Noticed a hill giant
 10908 | D:10     | Killed a hill giant
 10908 | D:10     | Reached XP level 11. HP: 62/81 MP: 18/18
 11037 | D:10     | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 11039 | D:10     | Lost mutation: You have a fast metabolism. [helix card]
 11039 | D:10     | Gained mutation: You have a fast metabolism. [helix card]
 11041 | D:10     | Reached skill level 16 in Unarmed Combat
 11041 | D:10     | Gained mutation: You can steal the life force of defeated enemies. [demonic ancestry]
 11041 | D:10     | Reached XP level 12. HP: 88/88 MP: 14/18
 11043 | D:10     | Reached XP level 13. HP: 93/93 MP: 11/20
 11660 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts
 11905 | Lair:1   | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 12886 | Lair:2   | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 12888 | Lair:2   | Cast into the Abyss (drawing a card)
 12888 | Abyss:1  | Found a corrupted altar of Lugonu.
 12981 | Abyss:1  | Noticed a lich
 12990 | Abyss:1  | Noticed a tentacled starspawn
 13056 | Lair:2   | Escaped the Abyss
 13399 | Lair:3   | Found a hole to the Spider Nest.
 13501 | Lair:3   | Found a shadowy altar of Dithmenos.
 14588 | Lair:4   | Found a snail-covered altar of Cheibriados.
 14777 | Lair:4   | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 14910 | Lair:4   | Shuffle card: Str 13[13], Int 12[12], Dex 19[19]
 14912 | Lair:4   | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting
 14912 | Lair:4   | Reached XP level 14. HP: 102/110 MP: 16/23
 16626 | Lair:5   | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 16820 | Lair:6   | Noticed Rupert
 16841 | Lair:6   | Killed Rupert
 17534 | Lair:6   | Got a heavy robe
 17540 | Lair:6   | Identified the cursed -3 robe of Unambiguity {rF++ Int-3} (You found it on level 6 of the Lair of Beasts)
 17722 | Lair:6   | Found a staircase to the Swamp.
 18010 | Lair:7   | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 18122 | Lair:7   | Gained mutation: You have a pair of horns on your head. [demonic ancestry]
 18122 | Lair:7   | Reached XP level 15. HP: 89/120 MP: 23/23
 18124 | Lair:7   | Lost mutation: You possess an exceptional clarity of mind. [helix card]
 18270 | Lair:7   | Reached skill level 10 in Dodging
 18981 | Lair:7   | Got a heavily runed leather armour
 18993 | Lair:7   | Identified the cursed -2 leather armour of Hedge Wizardry {rElec} (You found it on level 7 of the Lair of Beasts)
 19755 | Lair:8   | Entered Level 8 of the Lair of Beasts
 20650 | Lair:8   | Found a viscous altar of Jiyva.
 20651 | Lair:8   | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits.
 20664 | Lair:8   | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 21683 | Lair:8   | Found a burning altar of Makhleb.
 22072 | Lair:8   | Got a steaming scale mail
 22081 | Lair:8   | Identified the +3 scale mail of Ploph {rF+ rN+} (You took it off a red devil on level 8 of the Lair of Beasts)
 22698 | Lair:8   | Reached XP level 16. HP: 94/127 MP: 24/24
 22712 | Lair:8   | Found a gateway to Hell.
 23059 | Orc:1    | Entered Level 1 of the Orcish Mines
 23096 | Lair:1   | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 23156 | Orc:1    | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 23170 | Orc:1    | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 23361 | Orc:1    | Found Grobb's Antique Weapon Shop.
 23525 | Orc:2    | Noticed Harold
 23534 | Orc:2    | Killed Harold
 23534 | Orc:2    | Reached skill level 1 in Shields
 24023 | Orc:3    | Found Twaej's Magic Scroll Boutique.
 24053 | Orc:3    | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 24069 | Orc:3    | Found Inolexy's Distillery.
 24115 | Orc:3    | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 24135 | Orc:3    | Noticed Erolcha
 24142 | Orc:3    | Paralysed by Erolcha for 5 turns
 24154 | Orc:3    | Killed Erolcha
 24304 | Orc:4    | Entered Level 4 of the Orcish Mines
 24305 | Orc:4    | Found Duph's Jewellery Boutique.
 24576 | Orc:4    | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 24642 | Orc:4    | Found a staircase to the Elven Halls.
 24810 | Orc:4    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 24840 | Orc:4    | Found Iliz's Weapon Shop.
 24867 | Orc:4    | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 25055 | Orc:4    | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 25753 | Orc:3    | Bought a scroll of acquirement for 728 gold pieces
 25907 | Orc:4    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 26069 | Orc:4    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 26079 | Orc:4    | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 26182 | Orc:4    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 26214 | Orc:4    | Found Mexzokas' Armour Shop.
 26231 | Orc:4    | Bought a +1 cloak of preservation for 547 gold pieces
 26371 | Orc:4    | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 26433 | Orc:4    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 26435 | Orc:4    | Found Dogada Liet's Antique Armour Boutique.
 26438 | Orc:4    | Found Wapletwo's Antique Weapon Shop.
 26451 | Orc:4    | Bought a pair of warped boots for 218 gold pieces
 26455 | Orc:4    | Identified the +2 pair of boots of Sif Muna's Envy {Str-2 Int+2} (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Orcish Mines)
 26455 | Orc:4    | Bought a pair of glowing boots for 103 gold pieces
 26514 | Orc:4    | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 26518 | Orc:4    | Lost mutation: You have a fast metabolism. [helix card]
 26518 | Orc:4    | Gained mutation: You are somewhat resistant to further mutation. [helix card]
 26520 | Orc:4    | Lost mutation: You are somewhat resistant to further mutation. [helix card]
 26550 | Elf:1    | Entered Level 1 of the Elven Halls
 26581 | Elf:1    | Reached skill level 5 in Shields
 26645 | Elf:1    | Noticed an Ice Fiend
 26655 | Elf:1    | Noticed an Ice Fiend
 27330 | Elf:1    | Found Shreadag's Jewellery Emporium.
 27332 | Elf:1    | Noticed Donald
 27371 | Elf:1    | Killed Donald
 28066 | Elf:2    | Reached skill level 10 in Armour
 29470 | Elf:1    | Reached skill level 17 in Unarmed Combat
 30046 | Elf:2    | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 30549 | Elf:2    | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 31041 | Elf:3    | Entered Level 3 of the Elven Halls
 31115 | Elf:3    | Found a flickering gateway to a bazaar.
 31121 | Bazaar   | Entered a bazaar
 31121 | Bazaar   | Found Wesuagiosa's Weapon Boutique.
 31121 | Bazaar   | Found Kyopoatu's Jewellery Boutique.
 31137 | Bazaar   | Found Zuattuth's General Store.
 31145 | Bazaar   | Bought a scroll of enchant armour for 82 gold pieces
 31201 | Bazaar   | Found Dizogog's Armour Emporium.
 31210 | Bazaar   | Bought a +0 pair of gloves for 40 gold pieces
 31284 | Elf:3    | Reached skill level 1 in Slings
 31535 | Elf:3    | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 31862 | Elf:3    | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 31865 | Elf:3    | Noticed an Executioner
 32602 | Orc:1    | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 33114 | D:11     | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 33150 | D:11     | Noticed Nergalle
 33281 | D:11     | Killed Nergalle
 33532 | D:12     | Noticed Maurice
 33561 | D:12     | Killed Maurice
 33850 | D:12     | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 34549 | D:13     | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 3 turns
 34572 | D:13     | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 3 turns
 35215 | D:13     | Gained mutation: You emit a foul stench, and are resistant to rotting and decay. [demonic ancestry]
 35215 | D:13     | Reached XP level 17. HP: 76/133 MP: 25/25
 35694 | D:13     | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 35854 | D:14     | Found a flagged portal.
 35880 | Bailey   | Entered a bailey
 35883 | Bailey   | Noticed ThePrintersDevil's ghost (experienced CeHu)
 35905 | Bailey   | Killed ThePrintersDevil's ghost
 36201 | Bailey   | Got a wavering bone ring
 36202 | Bailey   | Identified the ring of Stieg {rPois Str-4 Dex+1 Int-4} (You found it in a bailey)
 36279 | D:14     | Reached skill level 18 in Unarmed Combat
 36321 | D:14     | Found a gate to the Vaults.
 36440 | D:14     | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 36631 | D:14     | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 36644 | D:14     | Gained mutation: Your muscles are strong. (Str +2) [potion of beneficial mutation]
 37344 | D:13     | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 3 turns
 37665 | D:15     | Entered Level 15 of the Dungeon
 37715 | D:15     | Found Cribbuac's Jewellery Emporium.
 37845 | D:15     | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 37847 | D:15     | Gained mutation: You can spit poison. [helix card]
 38199 | D:15     | Found a staircase to the Depths.
 38245 | D:15     | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 38606 | Depths:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Depths
 38943 | Depths:1 | Noticed the Enchantress
 39636 | D:14     | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 39984 | Swamp:1  | Entered Level 1 of the Swamp
 40027 | Swamp:1  | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 40035 | Swamp:1  | Gained mutation: You can steal the life force of all defeated enemies in sight. [demonic ancestry]
 40035 | Swamp:1  | Reached XP level 18. HP: 140/140 MP: 24/25
 40264 | Swamp:1  | Reached skill level 19 in Unarmed Combat
 41598 | Swamp:2  | Noticed Jorgrun
 41626 | Swamp:2  | Killed Jorgrun
 41638 | Swamp:2  | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 41650 | Swamp:2  | Paralysed by a red wasp for 1 turns
 41662 | Swamp:2  | Paralysed by a red wasp for 1 turns
 43344 | Swamp:3  | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 44679 | Swamp:4  | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 44851 | Swamp:4  | Reached skill level 20 in Unarmed Combat
 45822 | Swamp:4  | Learned a level 4 spell: Summon Ice Beast
 46383 | Swamp:5  | Entered Level 5 of the Swamp
 46440 | Swamp:5  | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 48372 | Swamp:5  | Noticed the 27-headed Lernaean hydra
 48389 | Swamp:5  | Killed the 27-headed Lernaean hydra
 48698 | Swamp:5  | Gained mutation: You are mostly covered in yellow scales (AC +3). [demonic ancestry]
 48698 | Swamp:5  | Reached XP level 19. HP: 31/150 MP: 26/26
 49821 | Swamp:5  | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 50034 | Swamp:5  | Got a decaying rune of Zot
 50546 | Orc:4    | Bought a fire dragon armour for 1380 gold pieces
 50689 | Lair:1   | Learned a level 3 spell: Abjuration
 50744 | Spider:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Spider Nest
 51747 | Spider:2 | Noticed BobtheCannibal's ghost (powerful DsWn)
 52140 | Spider:2 | Killed BobtheCannibal's ghost
 52140 | Spider:2 | Reached skill level 15 in Dodging
 52657 | Spider:2 | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 53919 | Spider:3 | Noticed Arachne
 53948 | Spider:3 | Killed Arachne
 53955 | Spider:3 | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 54299 | Spider:3 | Reached skill level 15 in Fighting
 54572 | Spider:3 | Reached skill level 1 in Evocations
 54744 | Spider:4 | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 54871 | Spider:4 | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 55485 | Spider:4 | Reached skill level 5 in Evocations
 55797 | Spider:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Spider Nest
 56116 | Spider:5 | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 56181 | Spider:5 | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 57723 | Spider:5 | Paralysed by a red wasp for 1 turns
 58351 | Spider:4 | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 59268 | Spider:5 | Gained mutation: You have a pair of large horns on your head. [demonic ancestry]
 59268 | Spider:5 | Reached XP level 20. HP: 94/162 MP: 2/31
 59533 | Spider:5 | Reached skill level 10 in Evocations
 60198 | Spider:4 | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh
 60716 | Spider:5 | Got a gossamer rune of Zot


Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 | 19-21 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Unarmed           |   179 |   241 |   748 |   408 |  1316 |  3394 |  1546 ||  7832
 Cast: Summon Small Mamm |       |       |    13 |       |       |       |       ||    13
Invok: Draw One          |       |       |    18 |     2 |    16 |    62 |    27 ||   125
       Triple Draw       |       |       |       |     3 |     6 |    11 |       ||    20
Evoke: Wand              |       |       |     1 |       |    19 |     5 |       ||    25
       Deck              |       |       |       |     5 |     8 |    11 |       ||    24
  Use: Potion            |     4 |       |    10 |     3 |    12 |    24 |     3 ||    56
       Scroll            |     3 |       |    16 |     4 |    15 |    29 |     6 ||    73
 Stab: Sleeping          |     2 |     4 |     8 |     2 |     9 |     1 |       ||    26
       Distracted        |       |       |     4 |       |     4 |     1 |       ||     9
       Invisible         |       |       |       |       |       |     2 |       ||     2
       Confused          |       |       |       |       |       |     3 |       ||     3


After my centaur wanderer's disastrous attempt at clearing Vaults, I'm not sure that this character is ready to take them on, either. The Depths are not any easier, however, and I don't see any other, safer options for a third rune. I've cleared out Elf outside of its treasure vault, and may try assaulting that before heading on elsewhere; I have the MR and preservation for it (I think...is three pips going to be enough? My horns decided to fill my helm slot finally, so the hat is no longer boosting it; I hope the increase in damage makes up for it somewhat), though it's still a very scary place to be.

Never mind. Died in the Abyss. Again. How, God, can I go a game without being forced into this place? If you're going to make it voluntary, make it voluntary. It's the only part of Crawl I absolutely hate.

I guess I was asking for it going to Elf with *only* three pips in MR, but it wasn't not the first time the game shoved me there this time.

I don't *want* to have to wander around RNG land. Why is this not optional? Argh.

The way in which it got me this time was especially frustrating. I was once again randomly teleported into a horde I could not handle, this time three raiju and abominations and I-don't-even-remember what else. And, in the Abyss's valiant effort to be as annoying and random as possible, my teleport was delayed to kingdom come and attempting to use a blink scroll simply cost me a turn.

I'm taking at least a temporary hiatus from the game. Possibly permanent. The Abyss and everything to do with it - distortion, the numerous banishers, decks, everything - ruins the game for me.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 11111

Joined: Friday, 8th February 2013, 12:00

Post Thursday, 24th April 2014, 03:40

Re: A quick question about armour for monks

Stack 5 on decks of escape unless you want to draw Flight instead of Tomb at critical point.

Edit. And if you are surrounded and cannot use Tomb, there are Solitude and Warpwright.

Swamp Slogger

Posts: 176

Joined: Wednesday, 11th September 2013, 04:59

Post Thursday, 24th April 2014, 03:44

Re: A quick question about armour for monks

I feel your pain, but why go to Elf at all if you're afraid of getting banished?

For this message the author hannobal has received thanks:
Sandman25
User avatar

Pandemonium Purger

Posts: 1298

Joined: Wednesday, 11th April 2012, 02:42

Location: Sydney, Australia

Post Thursday, 24th April 2014, 03:48

Re: A quick question about armour for monks

If you hate the Abyss so much ascend an AK

Vaults Vanquisher

Posts: 486

Joined: Thursday, 28th June 2012, 17:50

Location: U.S.

Post Thursday, 24th April 2014, 04:01

Re: A quick question about armour for monks

tasonir wrote:
crate wrote:what I do for UC characters is I select armour without ever caring about the UC-specific penalties, because the UC-specific penalties are complicated and rarely actually change your armour decision

Agreed - I'd pick armor based on what armor is best. But let's say you get some amazing yet heavy plate randart, are you saying you wouldn't train more armor skill than if you ended up in mottled dragon armor?

Of course you would, even without UC. Crate's point is that UC doesn't change that you should wear good armor (and presumably train armor skill for it according to its base AC), since you should anyway with or without UC.

Slime Squisher

Posts: 374

Joined: Saturday, 29th March 2014, 20:53

Post Thursday, 24th April 2014, 04:12

Re: A quick question about armour for monks

Patashu wrote:If you hate the Abyss so much ascend an AK


That's an excellent idea. I really like this idea. Yes.

Troll Abyssal Knight is doing alright. All the above advice will be useful for him. Thankee, all, and may the MR be with you.

Dungeon Master

Posts: 3160

Joined: Sunday, 5th August 2012, 14:52

Post Thursday, 24th April 2014, 14:02

Re: A quick question about armour for monks

tasonir wrote:You should use that scale mail immediately.


It might be worth using the scale mail, but if he has a modestly-enchanted leather or ringmail, I'd take that over the scale mail. I say that partly because scale mail is (in my opinion) the worst base armour -- it has a terrible ratio of AC to EV penalty, and partly because +3 isn't actually that big of an enchantment, and by the time the OP cares about the rF+ and rN+, they'll probably have something better to wear.

tasonir wrote:Edit: Side note: There is very little point in training armor while you're wearing a robe.


I disagree. Since armour skill enhances peripheral slots as well, it's often worth training enough Armour skill to get +1 AC even while wearing robes; it's very cheap, so there's no real reason not to.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 11111

Joined: Friday, 8th February 2013, 12:00

Post Thursday, 24th April 2014, 16:30

Re: A quick question about armour for monks

Robe has 2 base armour, with 4 peripheral slots (helmet, not hat) you get 6 base armour. It means you need 3.7 Armour skills to get one extra AC. So yes, for some species it can be trained early.

Barkeep

Posts: 3890

Joined: Wednesday, 14th August 2013, 23:25

Location: USA

Post Thursday, 24th April 2014, 16:34

Re: A quick question about armour for monks

Well yeah, but you shouldn't be training armor while wearing robes unless you already have a good amount of dodging. Eventually it may make sense to pop that extra +1 AC but not until late Lair at the earliest (in my experience). Exception being a naga or centaur wearing a robe that picked up a barding and filled up its other slots, as then you have a solid base AC. And if you are having bad luck with peripheral slots while wearing a robe, you might need to train as much as 7 armor skill or more for a single point of AC, so it does depend.

At some point though you will reach a moment where you already have a good amount of dodging, and you want more defenses, but the amount of experience needed to hit your next EV point is less than the amount to get an AC through armor training, even in robe or leather.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 11111

Joined: Friday, 8th February 2013, 12:00

Post Thursday, 24th April 2014, 17:00

Re: A quick question about armour for monks

Yes, sorry, I used a wrong word. Not "early" as in "before Temple", but "early" as in "when your Dodging is below 10+".

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 5382

Joined: Friday, 25th November 2011, 07:36

Post Thursday, 24th April 2014, 18:34

Re: A quick question about armour for monks

Lasty wrote:
tasonir wrote:You should use that scale mail immediately.


It might be worth using the scale mail, but if he has a modestly-enchanted leather or ringmail, I'd take that over the scale mail. I say that partly because scale mail is (in my opinion) the worst base armour -- it has a terrible ratio of AC to EV penalty, and partly because +3 isn't actually that big of an enchantment, and by the time the OP cares about the rF+ and rN+, they'll probably have something better to wear.

tasonir wrote:Edit: Side note: There is very little point in training armor while you're wearing a robe.


I disagree. Since armour skill enhances peripheral slots as well, it's often worth training enough Armour skill to get +1 AC even while wearing robes; it's very cheap, so there's no real reason not to.

I picked the armor out of his inventory, if he had something else amazing I don't know what it is. I wouldn't wear that ringmail all the way to zot, only until you find something better, but that was the best thing he had and it wasn't worn.

Some armor skill can be used just because it's practically free to get a skill to 5, but my point was mostly just to train other skills more. I guess I should say no point in training armor fairly high, which 10 was fairly high for that point imho.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4055

Joined: Tuesday, 10th January 2012, 19:49

Post Thursday, 24th April 2014, 22:13

Re: A quick question about armour for monks

are you saying you wouldn't train more armor skill than if you ended up in mottled dragon armor?

i train more armour skill for plate than for mda, yes
(turns out so should everyone else, since 10 base ac from your body armour is bigger than 6 so armour skill does more)

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 5382

Joined: Friday, 25th November 2011, 07:36

Post Friday, 25th April 2014, 00:17

Re: A quick question about armour for monks

Nice. I think we're in complete agreement then :)

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