Lignification


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Tomb Titivator

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Post Friday, 18th April 2014, 20:59

Lignification

1) How do I make the game autopickup Potions of Lignification?
2) Am I the only one who enjoys being an invincible tree when an ogre comes into LOS?

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Post Friday, 18th April 2014, 21:10

Re: Lignification

2. I didn't know what exactly it can do, what battle potential it contains, so I didn't use it, it's risky. ))
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Blades Runner

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Post Friday, 18th April 2014, 21:46

Re: Lignification

Klown wrote:1) How do I make the game autopickup Potions of Lignification?
2) Am I the only one who enjoys being an invincible tree when an ogre comes into LOS?


This information is in the ?? menu

hit \ then hit the letter of the (known) potion you want to toggle to Auto-pick up. I am certain you can also write a config into the init/rc file but I don't know precisely what that is.

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Dungeon Master

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Post Friday, 18th April 2014, 23:22

Re: Lignification

Hopeless wrote:I am certain you can also write a config into the init/rc file but I don't know precisely what that is.

I believe this line:
  Code:
autopickup_exceptions += lignification

will work.
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Dis Charger

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Post Saturday, 19th April 2014, 02:31

Re: Lignification

Hopeless wrote:Then hit the letter of the (known) potion you want to toggle to Auto-pick up.
For a second there...I thought you wrote Klown Potion and was all...there are Klown potions now? I so would quaff a potion for temporary Klowness.
Klown wrote:2) Am I the only one who enjoys being an invincible tree when an ogre comes into LOS?
Actually Lignification is -best- against undead. It gives you all the undead resistances (rTorm, rRot, etc.) without the undead weaknesses (rHoly--, Dispel Undead vuln). So things that invoke torment or use miasma against you (the Crypt, the Hells, Gloorx Pan) are good things to use Lignify against.
I'm beginning to feel like a Cat God! Felid streaks: {FeVM^Sif Muna, FeWn^Dithmenos, FeAr^Pakellas}, {FeEE^Ashenzari, FeEn^Gozag, FeNe^Sif Muna, FeAE^Vehumet...(ongoing)}
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Post Saturday, 19th April 2014, 08:11

Re: Lignification

bcadren wrote:
Hopeless wrote:Then hit the letter of the (known) potion you want to toggle to Auto-pick up.
For a second there...I thought you wrote Klown Potion and was all...there are Klown potions now? I so would quaff a potion for temporary Klowness.
Klown wrote:2) Am I the only one who enjoys being an invincible tree when an ogre comes into LOS?
Actually Lignification is -best- against undead. It gives you all the undead resistances (rTorm, rRot, etc.) without the undead weaknesses (rHoly--, Dispel Undead vuln). So things that invoke torment or use miasma against you (the Crypt, the Hells, Gloorx Pan) are good things to use Lignify against.


Becoming an immobile tree for a long time in a dangerous place like Pan or Hell is probably a really horrible idea. I've found that using lignification in the early game where the AC boost makes you near invincible against the likes of orc warriors, ogres and such works well. It's also great for surviving a Menkaure or Grinder ambush, but I have to say the most it's helped me is against early bee packs that I have no chance of outrunning.
take it easy
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Post Saturday, 19th April 2014, 09:34

Re: Lignification

Cheibrodos wrote:Becoming an immobile tree for a long time in a dangerous place like Pan or Hell is probably a really horrible idea. I've found that using lignification in the early game where the AC boost makes you near invincible against the likes of orc warriors, ogres and such works well. It's also great for surviving a Menkaure or Grinder ambush, but I have to say the most it's helped me is against early bee packs that I have no chance of outrunning.


Disagree completely I mean; Lignification makes Gloorx Vloq as dangerous as an executioner, makes everything except his melee completely harmless to you.
  Code:
Gloorx Vloq (&) | Spd: 20 | HD: 16 | HP: 350 | AC/EV: 10/10 | Dam: 45 | demonic, doors, fighter, evil, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: magic(immune), cold, elec++, poison, rot, neg+++, torm | Vul: holy++ | XP: 12453 | Sp: poison arrow (3d23), miasma breath (3d13), s.torment, b.draining (3d23), dispel undead (3d25) | Sz: Large | Int: high.
Did I just call Executioners harmless? ...well compared to pan lords, they are. It's also the best available defense against Shadow Fiends:

  Code:
Shadow Fiend (1) | Spd: 10 | HD: 18 | HP: 78-121 | AC/EV: 15/6 | Dam: 25(pain), 15(drain), 15(drain) | demonic, doors, evil, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: magic(immune), cold++, elec, poison, rot, neg+++, torm | Vul: holy++ | XP: 2498 | Sp: b.cold (3d27), b.draining (3d25), s.torment, dispel undead (3d27) | Sz: Large | Int: high.

Only b.Cold and the Melee (but not the melee brand) works against a tree.

Crypt and Hells are the best places to use Lignification; I think...BUT ONLY in places you'd stay for awhile anyways (battle against hell lord) or as a panic item. (3+ Fiends, if they torment me I can't live! kind of panic).

You also can't be mutated or rotted while a tree; so Tomb:3 vs. the death curses and vs. Mnoleg are also good places.
I'm beginning to feel like a Cat God! Felid streaks: {FeVM^Sif Muna, FeWn^Dithmenos, FeAr^Pakellas}, {FeEE^Ashenzari, FeEn^Gozag, FeNe^Sif Muna, FeAE^Vehumet...(ongoing)}

Swamp Slogger

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Post Saturday, 19th April 2014, 15:08

Re: Lignification

Wasn't marking Lignification potions as dangerous a change shortly before release? I think it was a poor one. Regardless of its situational-ness, it objectively has its uses. Unlike Poison and Confusion which are (almost) universally bad. I understand that it can be changed without much effort, but I don't think it should have to be. Rather the reverse, they should be picked up by default and people who think the tradeoff is too much can opt to leave them on the ground. In much the same way that ambrosia is.

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Post Saturday, 19th April 2014, 15:51

Re: Lignification

NessOnett wrote:Wasn't marking Lignification potions as dangerous a change shortly before release? I think it was a poor one. Regardless of its situational-ness, it objectively has its uses. Unlike Poison and Confusion which are (almost) universally bad. I understand that it can be changed without much effort, but I don't think it should have to be. Rather the reverse, they should be picked up by default and people who think the tradeoff is too much can opt to leave them on the ground. In much the same way that ambrosia is.

Lignification is extremely dangerous past the very early game. The people singing its praises conveniently leave out the fact that it leaves you completely immobile, unable to teleport, and unable to quaff potions (keep in mind, inability to quaff potions is THE reason mummies are the worst race in crawl), and it does all that terrible terrible awful stuff for a very long duration. Even in the best case scenario where it can save your life, it is still a huge risk. If anything goes wrong with your brilliant plan to turn into a tree, you have no backup options and are fucked.

Being dangerous does not necessarily make an item bad. It just means the item is dangerous, and lignification unquestionably is.

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Post Saturday, 19th April 2014, 16:07

Re: Lignification

TheDefiniteArticle wrote:
NessOnett wrote:Wasn't marking Lignification potions as dangerous a change shortly before release? I think it was a poor one. Regardless of its situational-ness, it objectively has its uses. Unlike Poison and Confusion which are (almost) universally bad. I understand that it can be changed without much effort, but I don't think it should have to be. Rather the reverse, they should be picked up by default and people who think the tradeoff is too much can opt to leave them on the ground. In much the same way that ambrosia is.

Lignification is extremely dangerous past the very early game. The people singing its praises conveniently leave out the fact that it leaves you completely immobile, unable to teleport, and unable to quaff potions (keep in mind, inability to quaff potions is THE reason mummies are the worst race in crawl), and it does all that terrible terrible awful stuff for a very long duration. Even in the best case scenario where it can save your life, it is still a huge risk. If anything goes wrong with your brilliant plan to turn into a tree, you have no backup options and are fucked.

Being dangerous does not necessarily make an item bad. It just means the item is dangerous, and lignification unquestionably is.

And this makes it different from Ambrosia how? Makes it different from scrolls of Vulnerability/Torment/Silence how?

Having a risk/reward is generally something that should be automatically picked up(and always has been). And subsequently used when the risk outweighs the reward in the mind of the player. And there are definitely objective rewards that come with the risks of turning into a tree. Compared to things that are not automatically picked up like potions of poison, which have no risk/reward mechanic. Are just bad altogether with no potential upsides.

To that end, how is this different from picking up unidentified scrolls or potions? They carry an equal risk/reward. Sometimes good, sometimes bad. But you acquire them by default so that you as a player can make that assessment concerning if its worth it.

Spider Stomper

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Post Saturday, 19th April 2014, 16:29

Re: Lignification

Lignification is really nice. :3

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Abyss Ambulator

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Post Sunday, 20th April 2014, 02:02

Re: Lignification

It has a few uses past very early D but mostly these are limited to speed runs where risk isn't as much of a consideration (like tomb:3)
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Slime Squisher

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Post Sunday, 20th April 2014, 02:05

Re: Lignification

To that end, how is this different from picking up unidentified scrolls or potions?

Uh okay be totally unreasonable, put all items on autopickup, maybe I need to paralyze myself as protection against being forcibly berserked

Swamp Slogger

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Post Sunday, 20th April 2014, 02:47

Re: Lignification

TheDefiniteArticle wrote:
To that end, how is this different from picking up unidentified scrolls or potions?

Uh okay be totally unreasonable, put all items on autopickup, maybe I need to paralyze myself as protection against being forcibly berserked


How is that unreasonable, and how are those two things anything alike? Lignification has clear, measurable, and significant boosts to very relevant stats.

Yes it has downsides, as do Scrolls of Torment, Silence, and Vulnerability. So why are these on autopickup when Lignification is not? The comparison should be made to things that are similar, not things that share nothing in common. There is no reason to ever use a scroll of Paralyze, as Paralyze is always worse than Berserk, but suddenly having over double the survivability, a slew of resistances, and both combat and stealth bonuses can very often be an extremely worthwhile option.

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Post Sunday, 20th April 2014, 19:46

Re: Lignification

Split the design discussion to CYC: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=11920

Advice related to lignification can keep happening in this thread.

Temple Termagant

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Post Friday, 20th March 2015, 19:44

Re: Lignification

I finally registered here with only one purpose:
To say that the tree form, with its 27 stealth modifier, resistances and HP, AC & GDR bonuses does not block Dithmenos's "Shadow Step" ability!
This is a godsend for stabbers! Sorry for bad English.

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Blades Runner

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Post Friday, 20th March 2015, 20:38

Re: Lignification

My formicid abyssal knight totally loves it! He already can-t teleport, so it's sometimes useful to quaff it in secure kill-hole against hard-hitting melee characters (I'm looking at you Wiglaf). At least in early-mid game.

Also:
Spoiler: show
Image

Swamp Slogger

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Post Tuesday, 31st March 2015, 01:03

Re: Lignification

I have to agree and say being able to turn into a monster tree saves me a lot, i use at least a couple of those potions per game lol. it does have its downsides of course and i have died as a tree of course, but id say it saves me 10 times to every time it has killed me and id like it to be on auto pick up also :). but changing your pick up list isnt that hard, took me forever to figure it out but just press "\" and scroll down the list and pick what you want on auto pick up, i turn some stuff off im sure others use and pick up stuff others wouldnt :P, im a hoarder too (i know its not the best thing but i cant help it lol)

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Post Tuesday, 31st March 2015, 01:42

Re: Lignification

Curio wrote:My formicid abyssal knight totally loves it! He already can-t teleport, so it's sometimes useful to quaff it in secure kill-hole against hard-hitting melee characters (I'm looking at you Wiglaf). At least in early-mid game.

Also:
Spoiler: show
Image


Q: Does Lugonu blink/self-banish work in tree form?
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Slime Squisher

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Post Tuesday, 31st March 2015, 01:51

Re: Lignification

You guys don't understand. The potion of lignification is an arcane portal to becoming the avatar of Me. I am the First tree and the Last tree. I am the only tree that ever exists, or will exist. So open that bottled portal, and harness My arcane power, and crush all in your way.

Also drink berserk+might+haste if you want before !lignif, it makes you even more powerful.
Lord of Lignification, we bow down to you.

...why aren't you bowing? Stop reading this and bow.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Tuesday, 31st March 2015, 07:10

Re: Lignification

treerex5 wrote:Also drink berserk+might+haste if you want before !lignif, it makes you even more powerful.

I guess you haven't actually tried that.
DCSS: 97:...MfCj}SpNeBaEEGrFE{HaAKTrCK}DsFESpHu{FoArNaBe}
FeEE{HOIEMiAE}GrGlHuWrGnWrNaAKBaFi{MiDeMfDe}{DrAKTrAMGhEnGnWz}
{PaBeDjFi}OgAKPaCAGnCjOgCKMfAEAtCKSpCjDEEE{HOSu
Bloat: 17: RaRoPrPh{GuStGnCa}{ArEtZoNb}KiPaAnDrBXDBQOApDaMeAGBiOCNKAsFnFlUs{RoBoNeWi

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Post Tuesday, 31st March 2015, 12:39

Re: Lignification

I'll keep a potion handy in the early game if I happen to ID one, in case of the off chance that an adder gets abnormally lucky and loads me up on poison. Once I'm past the stage where death by poison is a real threat, I toss that lignification potion and never look at another one again.

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Post Tuesday, 31st March 2015, 13:09

Re: Lignification

I use them to melee hydras before I have good AC.

Dungeon Master

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Post Friday, 3rd April 2015, 20:00

Re: Lignification

Treeform AC makes a lot of monsters harmless in early D through Lair, and the extra HP is huge. I generally holding onto them as a potential usable item around the time I have high AC in my standard form.

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Blades Runner

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Post Sunday, 5th April 2015, 13:19

Re: Lignification

mps wrote:Q: Does Lugonu blink/self-banish work in tree form?

Yes for both.
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Post Sunday, 5th April 2015, 16:29

Re: Lignification

e: removed some bad advice
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