How to get rid of bad mutations?

[Knight9910]

So, my current character has been running with teleportitis since D:7 when I took a potion of mutation. I've found a way of controlling it, but now I've got a fast metabolism too.

I know there's potions of cure mutation, but they seem to be EXTREMELY rare, to the point where I usually get one or two of them a game, if that, and as far as I can tell each potion only removes 3 mutations at most and I have... a lot. Most are good, but CM doesn't discriminate so there's a good chance I'll keep my teleportitis and fast metabolism and get rid of things I want, like Clarity or MR.

Also, I'm at ****** piety with Ashenzari, so switching to Zin just to get my stuff cured really seems like a bad idea.

So, I was wondering... what's the best way to get rid of bad mutations?

[and into]

Well, teleportitis specifically can be suppressed with any item that has the -Tele property, including amulet of stasis. Of course stasis also stops other good things, like haste. But also further bad things like slow. And you can always swap it out fairly quickly if you want to read ?tele or haste up (at some risk of teleportitis triggering while stasis is off) or something.

[Knight9910]

Yeah, I'm using an artifact amulet that has stasis on it now. It also controls my berserkitis.

I've got 4 bad mutations right now, actually. Berserkitis (controlled by amulet and clarity mutation), Teleportitis (controlled by amulet), Rotting (no effect because I'm a gargoyle), and Fast Metabolism. That last one is the one that bugs me and the only one I can't ignore. :\

[GlassGo]

Well, there is Jiyva, and if you have Stasis, you can just stash your stuff on teleport trap, it will be save. Or you should find some lucky Distillery.

[Magipi]

If you have a way to live with teleportitis, then what is the problem? Are you really worried about fast metabolism? Just eat more chunks, your god does not need sacrifices anyway.

[Knight9910]

Actually, it turns out I'm not immune to the Rotting mutation. I can't lose HP from it, but it can statdrain.

Also, I found a ton of CureMut potions in the ziggurat.

Seem like Ziggurat is a good way to get rid of mutations, but you have to wait until late game.

Also also, I mostly wanted to know for future characters....and for the possibility of getting mutated by Orbs of Fire.

[GlassGo]

If you have a way to live with teleportitis, then what is the problem? Are you really worried about fast metabolism? Just eat more chunks, your god does not need sacrifices anyway.

I think, the problem is that his amulet slot as if it lost. He forced to wear that amulet, and what can happen, if he needed rMut?

[Bloax]

Deterioration only causes statrot, not ordinary hp rot. (And is countered by wearing a ring of sustain abilities.)

[Knight9910]

If you have a way to live with teleportitis, then what is the problem? Are you really worried about fast metabolism? Just eat more chunks, your god does not need sacrifices anyway.

I think, the problem is that his amulet slot as if it lost. He forced to wear that amulet, and what can happen, if he needed rMut?

There is that too. The amulet in question wasn't terrible (it was a randart and also game a damage boost) but I had better ones. And if I'd bothered to put on a ring of sustain abilities to counter the statrot mutation then I would have had to give up a ring slot. That's one of the biggest problems with bad mutations - you can counter them, but you lose a jewelry slot.

[DracheReborn]

How did you pick up 4 bad mutations anyway? Mutation roulette? Probably unwise if you're not willing to live with bad muts. As you've found out, there aren't that many ways to get rid of bad muts.

[Bloax]

That's one of the biggest problems with bad mutations - you can counter them, but you lose a jewelry slot.

Which is the entire purpose of the (good) bad mutations, and also why you try to avoid getting mutated at all costs.

[Bart]

Also also, I mostly wanted to know for future characters....and for the possibility of getting mutated by Orbs of Fire.

Just don't drink unidentified potions, seriously. I almost always identify them in the first place, before equipment and scrolls, until I find mutation or until I have at least one cure mut available to counter potential !oMut.

Second advice: avoid mutating enemies. If I see something that mutates I:
- wear rMut
- try to hide if that's a summon, possibly abjure
- try to lose the monster from LoS and force it to come closer while out of my LoS to decrease opportunities of being mutated (if I have to fight it)
- block LoS of monster by casting fog / summoning monsters / getting other monster in between of us if possible
- kill it before other enemies.
Orbs of fire spawn in the place which should be your last challenge and even if they mutate you heavily, you should not worry too much about these mutations, being few hundreds of turns from winning.

[Klown]

Why are cure mutation potions so rare in such a mutation-heavy game?

[Lasty]

Klown, the idea of mutations is that you can receive long-term consequences for your actions. The point is to have a type of damage that you don't just rest off when the fight ends, and which is more interesting than straight-up damage.

There's also another approach to mutations in wretched stars, which inflict tons of "temporary" mutations very quickly and with little recourse, but those mutations clear up just as quickly when you gain some XP.

[Knight9910]

Wretched Stars are actually pretty cool...unless you're a mummy. Then they're just painful.

[Sar]

Mutation-heavy? Mutations are pretty much nonexistent in normal game, unless you feel compelled to quaff every mutation potion you find.

[Brannock]

Why are cure mutation potions so rare in such a mutation-heavy game?

Would you care about mutations if you could easily cure them?

[Thalfon]

Also if mutations were easily curable, mutation roulette would probably become viable or even optimal depending on just how common we're talking.

[shizmoo]

Im always tempted so hard when I come across a pot of random mutation/mutagenic corpse and when you can mutate from sparkling fountains. I ruined my last high level char with bad mutations so I put the breaks on my current high level since I have 7 good mutations and 2 bad at the moment.

[Patashu]

If you enjoy the mutation roulette I have a less lethal suggestion for you: https://itunes.apple.com/au/app/slots-p ... 08559?mt=8

[Hopeless]

If you enjoy the mutation roulette I have a less lethal suggestion for you: https://itunes.apple.com/au/app/slots-p ... 08559?mt=8

Ugh no! not the slots!! (Play pinball if you must hear bells and whistles, instead. :p)

[GlassGo]

Solution - go to Abyss to find !curMur. Of course, you need to be tough.

[Quazifuji]

If you don't have rMut then you're likely to gain more mutations than you cure in Abyss, I think, unless maybe you can consistently one shot or block with summons Neqoxecs, Cacodemons, and Shining Eyes.

[Knight9910]

I found potions in the Zig.

[GlassGo]

If you don't have rMut then you're likely to gain more mutations than you cure in Abyss, I think, unless maybe you can consistently one shot or block with summons Neqoxecs, Cacodemons, and Shining Eyes.

I mean, in case you got mutation early in the game, and now you have rMut. I already found 2 !cureMut. But I want !beneficial mutation. )

[cerebovssquire]

If you don't have rMut then you're likely to gain more mutations than you cure in Abyss, I think, unless maybe you can consistently one shot or block with summons Neqoxecs, Cacodemons, and Shining Eyes.

rMut is only 90% protection. This is a bad idea even with rMut.

[GlassGo]

Another method to get rid of bad mutations - let Silver Star to hit you! And your bMut is gone!
Btw, with rMut char was mutated only two times, but even without it, with help of Necromutation, and !curing all is curable.
I have something like ~50 !curing, it's more then enough.

[Knight9910]

This is why Cure Mutation is important. I went into Mnoleg's region of Panda with an amulet of Resist Mutation on. I came out with this:

[nago]

No, actually that means you still have to learn how positioning, during and before combat, break Los, and whatever else.

Sorry the runedess, but there's no way you can get so many muts with rmut if you play smartly and well

[Knight9910]

If I run into a cacodemon in the open with nothing else around there's only so much I can do. The bastard starts spamming malmutate on sight - even if I can kill it in two turns with crystal spear or iron shot that's still two turns worth of malmutates.

And in Mnoleg's world every other enemy has malmutate it seems. Cacodemons, neqoxecs, plus the shining eyes he summons himself...

(Also, if you're interested in knowing, I was able to get rid of them almost immediately. Mnoleg's world has a Zig entrance in it. I grabbed his rune then went in there to find cureMut potions.)

[Sandman25]

No, actually that means you still have to learn how positioning, during and before combat, break Los, and whatever else.

Sorry the runedess, but there's no way you can get so many muts with rmut if you play smartly and well

I have problems with mutating monsters sometimes so I am curious. How to deal with them if I am wearing heavy armour, have no Summon Butterflies and worship a god without allies (Oka, for example)? Am I supposed to retreat if I have 2+ mutating monsters in LoS and then kite a single monster with some ranged weapon? Especially interested in dealing with Cacodemons who often disable typical "retreat behind a corner" tactics.

[Knight9910]

Yeah, try retreating behind a corner for a Cacodemon, he just uses Energy Bolt or Dig, then gets back to spamming Malmutate.

(Also to be fair I already had a few of those. The ones the cacodemons gave me for Teleportitis, Berserkitis, and the last couple stages of Herbivore.)

[Lasty]

I have problems with mutating monsters sometimes so I am curious. How to deal with them if I am wearing heavy armour, have no Summon Butterflies and worship a god without allies (Oka, for example)? Am I supposed to retreat if I have 2+ mutating monsters in LoS and then kite a single monster with some ranged weapon? Especially interested in dealing with Cacodemons who often disable typical "retreat behind a corner" tactics.

Going into pan with no tools for obstructing LOS/line of fire is asking for trouble, but if you do find yourself in that situation do your best to use terrain and other, non-malmutating monsters to block the line of fire of the mutators around. nexoqecs will sometimes do this for you by summoning 5s. Stealth also helps by allowing you more control over where and when to engage malmutators. High-power, full-LOS attacks are also useful because they limit the number of actions the malmutators get.

That said, having summoning spells and/or evocables are good both in general and for these regions, and you should take advantage of them.

[GlassGo]

During all Panda-run, I was mutated only once (3 HP rot instead), and this is with Chei. Summon Butterflies, LCS, jump attack, positioning. I even didn't use Temporal Distortion at all.

[Sandman25]

I have problems with mutating monsters sometimes so I am curious. How to deal with them if I am wearing heavy armour, have no Summon Butterflies and worship a god without allies (Oka, for example)? Am I supposed to retreat if I have 2+ mutating monsters in LoS and then kite a single monster with some ranged weapon? Especially interested in dealing with Cacodemons who often disable typical "retreat behind a corner" tactics.

Going into pan with no tools for obstructing LOS/line of fire is asking for trouble, but if you do find yourself in that situation do your best to use terrain and other, non-malmutating monsters to block the line of fire of the mutators around. nexoqecs will sometimes do this for you by summoning 5s. Stealth also helps by allowing you more control over where and when to engage malmutators. High-power, full-LOS attacks are also useful because they limit the number of actions the malmutators get.

That said, having summoning spells and/or evocables are good both in general and for these regions, and you should take advantage of them.

Thank you. I keep hearing that dealing with mutations is easy but without allies, bolts, portal projectile, smiting spells etc. there is no safe way to kill mutating monsters, usually player cannot use evocable for every such monster and running away is not always possible. Mutations is primary reason why I tend to avoid extended lately, being low at HP after torment/hellfire is not as frustrating/temporary as having multiple bad mutations, especially if some of them are annoying fast metabolism and deteriorating body.

[crate]

with mnoleg's level specifically you are going to get mutated unless you have rmut, even with allies (this is not really the case elsewhere in pan), though you can cut down a bit from what I see in that post above with good play
this is also true of hells (except there you will get mutated even with rmut, since it's contam hell effects that get you, and there is really nothing you can do to prevent that except go faster)
sometimes in abyss you get mutated but permanent mutations aren't really that common in abyss any more
in zot you might get mutated by orbs of fire but you don't care since the game is over right afterward
nowhere else should you get mutated noticeably

you might notice that only one of these places is a place you must go to win

[GlassGo]

except there you will get mutated even with rmut, since it's contam hell effects that get you, and there is really nothing you can do to prevent that except go faster

You can - that's why I collect these precious ?vulnerability.