The Tavern

Does it exist at all?
It turned out, that curing and heal wounds doesn't work.
So?.................

GlassGo wrote:Does it exist at all?
It turned out, that curing and heal wounds doesn't work.
So?.................

I assume resting eventually works. :/ Or maybe a wand of Heal Wounds?? Wish I had a more definitive answer because that is a darned good question.

I wonder how did you get rot considering VS are supposed to be immune to it.

Simple case - lichform and bloody Shining Eye, no rMut.
If there are no means to restore HP pool, then VS is 3rune runner, nothing more.

Drink !cur while confused.

I'll fix that later.

Just to be completely clear (though prob obvious): Drink !curing while confused at max HP.

If you have removed all sources of clarity, zapping yourself with /enslavement gives guaranteed confusion by the way.

Thanks! I suspected something like this, and remembered, what is condition, that do no dmg to HP, but opens the possibility to use curing. )

and into wrote:Just to be completely clear (though prob obvious): Drink !curing while confused at max HP.
If you have removed all sources of clarity, zapping yourself with /enslavement gives guaranteed confusion by the way.

I know

I'm not that green. So, usual Confusion may not work? Anyway, I have a pile of Conf-wands, that I didn't use (almost didn't use wands at all as Tm, except P-morph vs Oklob and usual Didding\Desint).

out of curiousity - will wand of healing work on you in lichform?

arcanist wrote:out of curiousity - will wand of healing work on you in lichform?

I'll try and then give you the answer. But I'm sure, it will not.

Also, I'm curious - !heal wounds does not work either? And is it same bug as well or intentional (if it is so)?

Yes, /of heal wounds doesn't work.

GlassGo wrote:Simple case - lichform and bloody Shining Eye, no rMut.
If there are no means to restore HP pool, then VS is 3rune runner, nothing more.

VS is definitely not 3-rune only. In fact, VS has a very strong 15 rune game. They have antimagic-branded powerful aux melee and they recover from all damage (including torment) very, very fast. The trick is to not use lichform, but I would generally advise that anyway. My recent VSAs 15 rune win went through all of extended and killed every hell/pan lord w/o an amulet of resist mutation or lichform, and barely got mutated at all. I bring this up because it illustrates the most important point about extended: mutations (and torment and hellfire) are very manageable through good tactics, and you don't need to do something expensive and risky like Necromutation to deal with them. Using Necromutation to avoid having to use good tactics to manage risk will just train lazy risk-management.

Maybe, but I feel much more confident, when I have rMut - it help much not to rot to 50% of HP pool in Hell, for example.

rMut doesn't prevent rot, but being a VS that isn't in lichform does!

Edit: Also, if you hate mutations and Rot, try worshipping Zin. He can block both and he has amazing escape abilities.

@Lasty

Was your VSAs a sneaky character in light armour? Being uncannily stealthy surely helps to avoid mutations.

Lasty wrote:rMut doesn't prevent rot, but being a VS that isn't in lichform does!

Yes, but that doesn't prevent mutations! Rotting is better than bad mutations.

Lasty wrote:Also, if you hate mutations and Rot, try worshipping Zin. He can block both and he has amazing escape abilities.

There are no amulets, that grant +15 to all stats, and miraculous way to escape danger.
But there is rMut amulet.
So no, thanks, I'm stick with Chei. )

Sandman25 wrote:Was your VSAs a sneaky character in light armour? Being uncannily stealthy surely helps to avoid mutations.

When I went into Slime Pit, I was "uncunnily stealthy" even before I equip this

Code:: Inventory: Hand weapons e - the +4,+8 broad axe of Tiuxe {holy, rPois MR++ Stlth++} (You took it off an ogre mage on level 5 of the Vaults) It has been blessed by the Shining One to cause great damage to the undead and demons. It protects you from poison. It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments. It makes you much more stealthy.

And after that all, even if I had equiped ring of Shadows {Umbra +Inv rN+ SInv}, it doesn't help at all to sneak - most of Slime Pit's inhabitants awake when I come close.
So, I think stealth doesn't help.

That's what it looked like.

Code:: Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.14.0 (tiles) character file. ZeroXYZ the Slayer (Vine Stalker Transmuter) Turns: 379758, Time: 1, 22:44:05 HP 176/176 AC 12 Str 32 XL: 27 MP 46/46 EV 29 Int 38 God: Cheibriados [******] Gold 5198 SH 40 Dex 33 Spells: 17 memorised, 1 level left rFire + + + SeeInvis + e - +4,+8 broad axe of Tiuxe {holy, rPois MR++ Stlth++} rCold + . . Clarity . b - +0 robe "Tiucliu" {Int+3 Stlth++} rNeg + . . Conserve . D - +5 shield of Resistance {rF+ rC+ MR+} rPois + rCorr . E - +0 mask of the Dragon {MR+ Acc+3 Dam+3 SInv} rElec . rRot + a - +2 cloak {rC+} SustAb . . Spirit + W - +1 pair of gloves {Dex+3} rMut . Warding . Y - +1 pair of boots {Fly} Gourm + Stasis . Q - amulet of the gourmand MR +++++ u - ring of Shadows {Umbra +Inv rN+ SInv} v - ring "Divu" {Fire Int-2 Stlth++} @: repel missiles, flying, wreathed by umbra, very slow, almost entirely resistant to hostile enchantments, uncannily stealthy

Too little stealth?

stealth is not reliable in crawl, but it is still very useful if you have a lot of it

chei is awful, and he ruins a lot of minor advantages stealth would otherwise give you (and a lot of minor advantages almost everything would otherwise give you)

good gods include literally any other god, even fucking xom

Some day I will try SpEn of Xom, it should be fun with all those random teleports and noise effects.

GlassGo wrote:miraculous way to escape danger

That's exactly what Zin does as his ultimate ability, and he doesn't break your legs in exchange for that.

TheDefiniteArticle wrote:good gods include literally any other god, even fucking xom

That's why I love Crawl so much - literally everybody can find what they need.

Sar wrote:That's exactly what Zin does as his ultimate ability, and he doesn't break your legs in exchange for that.

Nope.

And, as a side bonus, he can give you up to +9 to all stats in addition to a status that protects you from sickness, poison, confusion, petrification, rot and stat drain. And he gives a pretty decent AOE offensive disable as well. Also, Step From Time is much more of a gamble than Sanctuary in most cases, and Zin also gives Imprison as a second method of flexible threat management.

GlassGo wrote:
Sar wrote:That's exactly what Zin does as his ultimate ability, and he doesn't break your legs in exchange for that.
Nope.

I'm so confused right now.

GlassGo wrote:Nope.

https://loom.shalott.org/learndb.html#sanctuary

Half the reason Chei is awful is that he makes it almost impossible to escape danger. Because you know, walking is useful.

Also Zin gives +9 stats, and protects you from almost every bad status effect, which is way better the other +6 stats chei gives. Basically Zin is better than Chei in every way that matters.

TheDefiniteArticle wrote:Also Zin gives +9 stats, and protects you from almost every bad status effect, which is way better the other +6 stats chei gives. Basically Zin is better than Chei in every way that matters.

starting game with 27 in invocation is a very nice strategy, i guess... for the wiz mode

Almost every race has +1 invo apt and the worst invo apt is -1.

Also starting game with chei and max chei piety requires wizard mode

Zin is cool, but we are talking about a Tm here (I think) which is a... trickier build with Zin.

Lasty wrote:I'm so confused right now.

Just a joke.

TheDefiniteArticle wrote:Almost every race has +1 invo apt and the worst invo apt is -1.

Also starting game with chei and max chei piety requires wizard mode

Are you claiming it's normal for every zin follower to get 27 invocations? It's way more normal to get max piety than to get max invocations, so the comparison doesn't work.

step from time requires invocations just like sanctuary does, so...

The comment was that zin gives +9 to stats compared to chei's +15 to stats. One requires 27 invo to achieve, one does not.

Both gods require good invo to use their best abilities, but neither requires 27 invo, nor would that be practical.

I should play with zin at some point. One quick question: Sanctuary seems like it only extends 5 tiles? If I have some ranged attacker, say an orc priest, at range 7, and I cast sanctuary because I'm at 5 hp, can the priest just smite me and kill me? It's outside of the range of sanctuary...

Right; practically-speaking, you're probably getting between +5 and +7 from Zin, but you're also getting a bunch of other great stuff including a better life-saving ability and you're also not being slowed.

tasonir wrote:I should play with zin at some point. One quick question: Sanctuary seems like it only extends 5 tiles? If I have some ranged attacker, say an orc priest, at range 7, and I cast sanctuary because I'm at 5 hp, can the priest just smite me and kill me? It's outside of the range of sanctuary...

While you're in the sanctuary, no monsters will take aggressive actions. Pretty much the only way to receive harm under sanctuary is to self-inflict it, have poison/rot in your system and not use Vitalize, or to allow flight to run out over lava/deep water.

I recently played a HoFi of Zin, very powerful. Zin gives you recite for free, which is just great as something to do before the enemies get into range, half the time that decides the entire battle for you.
Vitalize is like heroism, in that it's something to use before any non-trivial fights, but it also prevents a lot of bad statuses, so it covers your weaknesses quite well.
Imprison is awesome as an escape tool.
Sanctuary is awesome for those times where you think "I can't possibly survive this situation". Got some MP? Then you can survive.

The eating conduct was annoying, but not really a big deal. I don't really see the point of it one way or the other, all it really does is lock trolls out of zin, or make ogres and centaurs a little more annoying than usual.

The Tavern

Means to restore rot for VS

Means to restore rot for VS

Re: Means to restore rot for VS

Re: Means to restore rot for VS

Re: Means to restore rot for VS

Re: Means to restore rot for VS

Re: Means to restore rot for VS

Re: Means to restore rot for VS

Re: Means to restore rot for VS

Re: Means to restore rot for VS

Re: Means to restore rot for VS

Re: Means to restore rot for VS

Re: Means to restore rot for VS

Re: Means to restore rot for VS

Re: Means to restore rot for VS

Re: Means to restore rot for VS

Re: Means to restore rot for VS

Re: Means to restore rot for VS

Re: Means to restore rot for VS

Re: Means to restore rot for VS

Re: Means to restore rot for VS

Re: Means to restore rot for VS

Re: Means to restore rot for VS

Re: Means to restore rot for VS

Re: Means to restore rot for VS

Re: Means to restore rot for VS

Re: Means to restore rot for VS

Re: Means to restore rot for VS

Re: Means to restore rot for VS

Re: Means to restore rot for VS

Re: Means to restore rot for VS

Re: Means to restore rot for VS

Re: Means to restore rot for VS