Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 5832
Joined: Thursday, 10th February 2011, 18:30
PDA +7 or +8 Chain rElec +rF ?
Did I make a lame complaint? Check for Bingo!
Totally gracious CSDC Season 2 Division 4 Champeen!
Ask fellow adventurers how to stay alive in the deep, dark, dangerous dungeon below, or share your own accumulated wisdom.
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 5832
Joined: Thursday, 10th February 2011, 18:30
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 5832
Joined: Thursday, 10th February 2011, 18:30
duvessa wrote:That's because the chain gives you less AC and less EV.
Spider Stomper
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Joined: Thursday, 10th February 2011, 18:30
Ziggurat Zagger
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Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 5832
Joined: Thursday, 10th February 2011, 18:30
Sandman25 wrote:If you are using a bardiche, drop that slaying ring and never pick up again.
Slime Squisher
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Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 11111
Joined: Friday, 8th February 2013, 12:00
XuaXua wrote:Sandman25 wrote:If you are using a bardiche, drop that slaying ring and never pick up again.
How come? Not enough slaying to be worth it?
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 11111
Joined: Friday, 8th February 2013, 12:00
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 11111
Joined: Friday, 8th February 2013, 12:00
Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.14.0 (tiles) character file.
MfFi the Phalangite (Merfolk Fighter) Turns: 131, Time: 00:04:02
HP 106/172 AC 21 Str 19 XL: 20 Next: 0%
MP 19/19 EV 15 Int 8 God: No God 0 (0)
Gold 0 SH 0 Dex 13 Spells: 0 memorised, 19 levels left
rFire . . . SeeInvis . f - +6 bardiche (flame)
rCold . . . Clarity . g - +8 chain mail
rNeg . . . Conserve . (no shield)
rPois . rCorr . (no helmet)
rElec . rRot . (no cloak)
SustAb . . Spirit . (no gloves)
rMut . Warding . (no boots)
Saprov . . . Stasis . (no amulet)
MR +.... (no ring)
i - +3,+4 ring of slaying
Skills:
+ Level 18.7 Fighting
+ Level 22.9 Polearms
+ Level 13.9 Armour
- Level 20.0 Dodging
Level 17.4 Shields
Polearms | AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
0 | 20.2 | 63 | 77% | 15.6 | 200 | 0.50 | 7.8
1 | 20.5 | 62 | 77% | 15.9 | 195 | 0.51 | 8.2
2 | 20.4 | 60 | 76% | 15.6 | 190 | 0.53 | 8.2
3 | 20.8 | 65 | 76% | 16.0 | 185 | 0.54 | 8.6
4 | 21.3 | 65 | 78% | 16.7 | 180 | 0.56 | 9.3
5 | 21.4 | 67 | 77% | 16.7 | 175 | 0.57 | 9.5
6 | 21.3 | 65 | 79% | 16.9 | 170 | 0.59 | 9.9
7 | 21.9 | 69 | 78% | 17.3 | 165 | 0.61 | 10.5
8 | 22.5 | 70 | 80% | 18.1 | 160 | 0.63 | 11.3
9 | 22.8 | 79 | 78% | 18.0 | 155 | 0.65 | 11.6
10 | 22.5 | 70 | 79% | 17.8 | 150 | 0.67 | 11.8
11 | 23.5 | 84 | 78% | 18.5 | 145 | 0.69 | 12.8
12 | 23.4 | 75 | 79% | 18.6 | 140 | 0.71 | 13.3
13 | 23.6 | 74 | 80% | 18.9 | 135 | 0.74 | 14.0
14 | 24.3 | 76 | 79% | 19.3 | 130 | 0.77 | 14.9
15 | 24.5 | 83 | 80% | 19.7 | 125 | 0.80 | 15.7
16 | 25.6 | 87 | 81% | 20.9 | 120 | 0.83 | 17.4
17 | 25.6 | 86 | 80% | 20.7 | 115 | 0.87 | 18.0
18 | 25.6 | 87 | 79% | 20.3 | 110 | 0.91 | 18.4
19 | 26.5 | 84 | 80% | 21.4 | 105 | 0.95 | 20.4
20 | 26.5 | 88 | 81% | 21.6 | 100 | 1.00 | 21.6
21 | 26.7 | 93 | 80% | 21.5 | 95 | 1.05 | 22.7
22 | 27.3 | 95 | 82% | 22.4 | 90 | 1.11 | 24.9
23 | 27.5 | 95 | 81% | 22.4 | 85 | 1.18 | 26.4
24 | 27.1 | 103 | 82% | 22.3 | 80 | 1.25 | 27.8
25 | 27.9 | 98 | 81% | 22.8 | 75 | 1.33 | 30.4
26 | 27.7 | 110 | 82% | 22.9 | 70 | 1.43 | 32.6
27 | 28.5 | 109 | 81% | 23.2 | 70 | 1.43 | 33.2
Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.14.0 (tiles) character file.
MfFi the Phalangite (Merfolk Fighter) Turns: 151, Time: 00:04:20
HP 114/172 AC 23 Str 19 XL: 20 Next: 0%
MP 19/19 EV 18 Int 8 God: No God 0 (0)
Gold 0 SH 0 Dex 13 Spells: 0 memorised, 19 levels left
rFire . . . SeeInvis . f - +6 bardiche (flame)
rCold . . . Clarity . h - +7 pearl dragon armour
rNeg + . . Conserve . (no shield)
rPois . rCorr . (no helmet)
rElec . rRot . (no cloak)
SustAb . . Spirit . (no gloves)
rMut . Warding . (no boots)
Saprov . . . Stasis . (no amulet)
MR +.... (no ring)
(no ring)
Skills:
+ Level 18.7 Fighting
+ Level 22.9 Polearms
+ Level 13.9 Armour
- Level 20.0 Dodging
Level 17.4 Shields
Polearms | AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
0 | 18.1 | 55 | 75% | 13.7 | 200 | 0.50 | 6.8
1 | 17.8 | 54 | 75% | 13.4 | 195 | 0.51 | 6.9
2 | 17.9 | 56 | 74% | 13.3 | 190 | 0.53 | 7.0
3 | 18.1 | 63 | 76% | 13.9 | 185 | 0.54 | 7.5
4 | 18.3 | 61 | 77% | 14.2 | 180 | 0.56 | 7.9
5 | 18.6 | 60 | 77% | 14.5 | 175 | 0.57 | 8.3
6 | 19.5 | 65 | 76% | 15.0 | 170 | 0.59 | 8.8
7 | 19.7 | 61 | 76% | 15.0 | 165 | 0.61 | 9.1
8 | 19.6 | 69 | 76% | 15.0 | 160 | 0.63 | 9.4
9 | 19.9 | 71 | 77% | 15.5 | 155 | 0.65 | 10.0
10 | 19.9 | 72 | 78% | 15.7 | 150 | 0.67 | 10.5
11 | 20.9 | 65 | 77% | 16.1 | 145 | 0.69 | 11.1
12 | 21.1 | 76 | 78% | 16.6 | 140 | 0.71 | 11.9
13 | 21.3 | 77 | 77% | 16.5 | 135 | 0.74 | 12.3
14 | 21.9 | 89 | 77% | 17.1 | 130 | 0.77 | 13.1
15 | 22.3 | 84 | 79% | 17.6 | 125 | 0.80 | 14.1
16 | 22.1 | 82 | 79% | 17.5 | 120 | 0.83 | 14.6
17 | 22.5 | 77 | 79% | 18.0 | 115 | 0.87 | 15.6
18 | 22.9 | 86 | 79% | 18.2 | 110 | 0.91 | 16.5
19 | 23.6 | 89 | 80% | 18.9 | 105 | 0.95 | 18.0
20 | 24.1 | 91 | 81% | 19.6 | 100 | 1.00 | 19.6
21 | 24.1 | 91 | 78% | 19.0 | 95 | 1.05 | 20.0
22 | 25.0 | 92 | 79% | 20.0 | 90 | 1.11 | 22.2
23 | 24.7 | 100 | 81% | 20.2 | 85 | 1.17 | 23.8
24 | 25.1 | 88 | 80% | 20.2 | 80 | 1.25 | 25.2
25 | 25.0 | 96 | 81% | 20.4 | 75 | 1.33 | 27.2
26 | 25.5 | 90 | 80% | 20.6 | 70 | 1.43 | 29.5
27 | 26.2 | 104 | 82% | 21.6 | 70 | 1.43 | 30.9
Vaults Vanquisher
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Spider Stomper
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Sandman25 wrote:ignore anyone who ever tells you to wear a positive slaying ring no matter what.
Ziggurat Zagger
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Joined: Friday, 8th February 2013, 12:00
Knight9910 wrote:Sandman25 wrote:ignore anyone who ever tells you to wear a positive slaying ring no matter what.
Well, that's not entirely fair. A ring of slaying can be very good item if you get a good one early on. I had one character who found a +4/+7 (or something like that) ring of slaying early on (somewhere around Dungeon:3, IIRC) and instantly went from struggling to survive to obliterating everything.
That said, the ring stopped being quite as important by the time I was into the mid to late game. By the time I was into the lower dungeon I had good enough weapons that the few extra plusses didn't matter as much. Still, early on it was really useful.
Spider Stomper
Posts: 242
Joined: Tuesday, 27th August 2013, 01:36
Sandman25 wrote:I am not sure I was understood properly. I suggest to carefully analyze current situation before using any item, including ring of slaying. There can be situations when wearing such ring is suboptimal. It is true even for some really OP items like ring of robustness, shaolin and slaying 0,+9.
Ziggurat Zagger
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Vaults Vanquisher
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XuaXua wrote:What about the GDR and optimal Armour skill investment?
Crypt Cleanser
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XuaXua wrote:What about the GDR and optimal Armour skill investment?
Barkeep
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Slime Squisher
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Well, that's not entirely fair. A ring of slaying can be very good item if you get a good one early on.
Fair enough. Like the other guy mentioned, a ring of rF+ might be good, but not if you're fighting enemies that don't use fire.
I'd generally prefer to leave on stuff that is most helpful against everything, and (with jewelry) swap in
Ziggurat Zagger
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Joined: Friday, 8th February 2013, 12:00
TheDefiniteArticle wrote:Sandman wants to reduce every aspect of crawl to mathematics and yet doesn't understand the mathematical concept that increasing your fsim numbers by 10% is not equivalent to increasing your damage output by 10%. It's that sort of shortsighted analysis that makes much of his advice questionable.
Shoals Surfer
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Dungeon Master
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Joined: Sunday, 5th August 2012, 14:52
Slime Squisher
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Joined: Tuesday, 14th January 2014, 23:33
Sandman25 wrote:Yes, Sandman wants to reduce everything to mathematics because mathematics tells you that you don't need +4 ring of slaying that much when you get 90 as max damage at Polearm 26.
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 11111
Joined: Friday, 8th February 2013, 12:00
TheDefiniteArticle wrote:Sandman25 wrote:Yes, Sandman wants to reduce everything to mathematics because mathematics tells you that you don't need +4 ring of slaying that much when you get 90 as max damage at Polearm 26.
It only tells you that when you ignore literally dozens of variables.
Dungeon Master
Posts: 634
Joined: Sunday, 22nd September 2013, 14:46
Sandman25 wrote:Maybe my advice is bad but I seriously prefer to have AC+2 and EV+3 instead of +10% damage. Perhaps because defense is more important for me, it really helps when escaping especially when attacked by multiple monsters. I am not talking about extended here of course.
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 11111
Joined: Friday, 8th February 2013, 12:00
wheals wrote:Sandman25 wrote:Maybe my advice is bad but I seriously prefer to have AC+2 and EV+3 instead of +10% damage. Perhaps because defense is more important for me, it really helps when escaping especially when attacked by multiple monsters. I am not talking about extended here of course.
This is a false dichotomy here, since he can have both and just swap to rF when he really needs it (and merfolk are tough enough that that doesn't even happen so often).
Barkeep
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Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 11111
Joined: Friday, 8th February 2013, 12:00
archaeo wrote:Maybe I'm confused, but what does the slaying ring have to do with the choice of armour (and thus the AC/EV bonus) here?
Vaults Vanquisher
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Sandman25 wrote:archaeo wrote:Maybe I'm confused, but what does the slaying ring have to do with the choice of armour (and thus the AC/EV bonus) here?
People suggested to wear chain armour in order to free a slot for slaying.
Sandman25 wrote:archaeo wrote:Maybe I'm confused, but what does the slaying ring have to do with the choice of armour (and thus the AC/EV bonus) here?
People suggested to wear chain armour in order to free a slot for slaying.
Ziggurat Zagger
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Joined: Friday, 8th February 2013, 12:00
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