Hierarchy of Brands?


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Spider Stomper

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Post Monday, 27th December 2010, 14:34

Hierarchy of Brands?

I'm playing a KoBe right now and I've been trying to figure out which brands are the best in order. I'm guessing electrocution is near the top, speed is also good, and vorpal is very powerful on speed blades, but what about the others? How is draining, for instance? What about freezing/burning? I've really got no clue and would like some clarification on this.
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Dungeon Master

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Post Monday, 27th December 2010, 15:23

Re: Hierarchy of Brands?

On a quick blade or other fast weapon (like whips, etc), you want an additive brand (like electrocution, pain, distortion) because you get a lot of attacks with it and so the effect will be applied more times.

On a big, heavy weapon like an executioner's axe, you want a multiplicative brand (like flaming, freezing, holy wrath). Vampiric is also probably better on bigger weapons, as you get healed by 1d(damage), and so is antimagic (it increases the enemy's chance to miscast based on damage dealt).

And speed is rare but always great, yeah.

For ranged weapons, silver and steel are awesome and everything else is confusing and I have no idea about.

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Spider Stomper

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Post Monday, 27th December 2010, 16:05

Re: Hierarchy of Brands?

Thanks guys, I'll keep this in mind.
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Lair Larrikin

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Post Monday, 27th December 2010, 16:24

Re: Hierarchy of Brands?

Speaking of ranged weapons, how does having differing brands on the launcher and ammo work?

Halls Hopper

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Post Monday, 27th December 2010, 16:40

Re: Hierarchy of Brands?

MarvintheParanoidAndroid wrote:On a quick blade or other fast weapon (like whips, etc), you want an additive brand (like electrocution, pain, distortion) because you get a lot of attacks with it and so the effect will be applied more times.

On a big, heavy weapon like an executioner's axe, you want a multiplicative brand (like flaming, freezing, holy wrath). Vampiric is also probably better on bigger weapons, as you get healed by 1d(damage), and so is antimagic (it increases the enemy's chance to miscast based on damage dealt).

And speed is rare but always great, yeah.

For ranged weapons, silver and steel are awesome and everything else is confusing and I have no idea about.


For ranged launchers, vorpal is by far the best 'regular' brand because you can use it with branded ammo (steel, poison, etc.) Missles are allowed 1 brand (which you can get from either launcher or ammo) and vorpal doesn't count as a brand. You essentially get two brands with a vorpal launcher and the damage bonus of the brand is applied AFTER the vorpal multiplier - for example if you are shooting steel bullets with a sling of velocity you get the 30% vorpal bonus, and then the 50% steel bonus applied on top of that, so the two put together are a 95% damage increase. You used to be able to stack poison and frost/flame, but now only Nessos gets to do that.

Crossbows of penetration (penetration is on crossbows and javelins only) are better overall than vorpal crossbows because they act like a bolt spell, but you should still keep around a vorpal X-bow for singular enemies. There's also rare launchers like the storm bow (electric arrows!) or holy wrath (you can get TSO to make one for you) that are really strong but not something you can find in a regular game.

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Post Monday, 27th December 2010, 16:57

Re: Hierarchy of Brands?

tromboneandrew wrote:Speaking of ranged weapons, how does having differing brands on the launcher and ammo work?


You get 1 brand, and the brand on the AMMO is used (haven't checked/looked at all cases, though). Vorpal and penetration don't count as brands, so you can shoot flaming vorpal arrows or poison bolts of penetration. Only Nessos is allowed to mix two brands (he gets flaming poison arrows).
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Vestibule Violator

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Post Monday, 27th December 2010, 17:44

Re: Hierarchy of Brands?

I think speed is a bit overrated on fast weapons. You already have fast attack speed, the problem with short blades is that your damage is reduced by monster AC. So I'd take venom, poison, draining, distortion, pain or lightning on short blades.

I don't use draining too much though because I don't understand it very well.
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Spider Stomper

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Post Monday, 27th December 2010, 17:48

Re: Hierarchy of Brands?

What about protection? Should I avoid that one entirely?
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You start butchering the dire elephant corpse with your claws.
You continue butchering the corpse.
You are engulfed in roaring flames. You stop butchering the corpse.
You die...
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Shoals Surfer

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Post Monday, 27th December 2010, 18:18

Re: Hierarchy of Brands?

danr wrote:I don't use draining too much though because I don't understand it very well.


Does damage to negative energy-vulnerable enemies (no demons/undead). Has a chance of reducing Max HP and lowering a monster's HD by 1. Basically, it kills low HD monsters very quickly and weakens tough monsters in exchange for making your kills worth less xp. The loss of xp is trivial, so use it if you want.

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Post Monday, 27th December 2010, 22:48

Re: Hierarchy of Brands?

danr wrote:So I'd take venom, poison, draining, distortion, pain or lightning on short blades.

venom isn't very good at all past early game, so I stay away from it unless there's nothing else.
draining's damage is multiplicative, and therefore kind of bad on short blades; prefer speed.
distortion is great, but too much of a pain for normal games; use on games where you need to get things out of the way more than kill them.
pain is splendid with good necromancy until extended game.
elec is good until late game, too; just about everything gets rElec at some point, though, so don't bother with it as your primary brand then.

Speed itself is also good (on sabres, at least), but really, though, if I don't have pain, distortion, or stabbing skill and a nice way to make things stabbable, short blades are just too much of a bother for me, what with requiring so many keypresses to kill things.

Mines Malingerer

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Post Tuesday, 28th December 2010, 04:44

Re: Hierarchy of Brands?

RangerC wrote:
MarvintheParanoidAndroid wrote:On a quick blade or other fast weapon (like whips, etc), you want an additive brand (like electrocution, pain, distortion) because you get a lot of attacks with it and so the effect will be applied more times.

On a big, heavy weapon like an executioner's axe, you want a multiplicative brand (like flaming, freezing, holy wrath). Vampiric is also probably better on bigger weapons, as you get healed by 1d(damage), and so is antimagic (it increases the enemy's chance to miscast based on damage dealt).

And speed is rare but always great, yeah.

For ranged weapons, silver and steel are awesome and everything else is confusing and I have no idea about.


For ranged launchers, vorpal is by far the best 'regular' brand because you can use it with branded ammo (steel, poison, etc.) Missles are allowed 1 brand (which you can get from either launcher or ammo) and vorpal doesn't count as a brand. You essentially get two brands with a vorpal launcher and the damage bonus of the brand is applied AFTER the vorpal multiplier - for example if you are shooting steel bullets with a sling of velocity you get the 30% vorpal bonus, and then the 50% steel bonus applied on top of that, so the two put together are a 95% damage increase. You used to be able to stack poison and frost/flame, but now only Nessos gets to do that.

Crossbows of penetration (penetration is on crossbows and javelins only) are better overall than vorpal crossbows because they act like a bolt spell, but you should still keep around a vorpal X-bow for singular enemies. There's also rare launchers like the storm bow (electric arrows!) or holy wrath (you can get TSO to make one for you) that are really strong but not something you can find in a regular game.


Here is a stupid question: What about temporary brands? i.e freezing aura, fire brand, excruciating wounds etc. Do they stack with vorpal?

edit: I mean for melee weapons
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Vaults Vanquisher

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Post Tuesday, 28th December 2010, 08:30

Re: Hierarchy of Brands?

no.

Blades Runner

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Post Monday, 21st February 2011, 17:56

Re: Hierarchy of Brands?

Do brands, either on ammo or a launcher, affect the mulch rate?

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Post Monday, 21st February 2011, 17:59

Re: Hierarchy of Brands?

Yeah, I -think- they increase it. At least, that was the answer I saw a few months ago. Could've changed since then.

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Post Monday, 21st February 2011, 18:24

Re: Hierarchy of Brands?

smock wrote:Do brands, either on ammo or a launcher, affect the mulch rate?

Flame and freezing increase mulch rate, but steel greatly reduces it.
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