Mutation Evolution


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Post Friday, 14th March 2014, 19:01

Mutation Evolution

I like various mutations (good ones preferably), so I have few questions.

Will Evolution mutation trigger when I quaff potion of mutation? And if it does would I have more chances to get good mutation?

Same question about Mutation Resistance: if I have rank 1 (or rank 2) and quaff potion of mutation, would I have more chances to get good mutation?
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Friday, 14th March 2014, 19:04

Re: Mutation Evolution

>Will Evolution mutation trigger when I quaff potion of mutation?

Yes, it is possible to get Evolution mutation as far as I know.

>And if it does would I have more chances to get good mutation?

Yes, Evolution usually gives good mutations but it does not affect mutations which are obtained by other means.

>Same question about Mutation Resistance: if I have rank 1 (or rank 2) and quaff potion of mutation, would I have more chances to get good mutation?

No, you will have 66% chance to get mutations from quaffing blocked.

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Post Friday, 14th March 2014, 19:06

Re: Mutation Evolution

Eyesburn wrote:Will Evolution mutation trigger when I quaff potion of mutation? And if it does would I have more chances to get good mutation?

There is a chance that evolution will trigger from quaffing a potion of mutation, but it is quite unlikely. If it does happen, then yes, the mutations you get from evolution are more likely to be good than bad.

Eyesburn wrote:Same question about Mutation Resistance: if I have rank 1 (or rank 2) and quaff potion of mutation, would I have more chances to get good mutation?

Mutation resistance will reduce the number of mutations you get from potions of mutation, and won't affect the probability of good or bad.

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Post Friday, 14th March 2014, 19:23

Re: Mutation Evolution

some12fat2move wrote:There is a chance that evolution will trigger from quaffing a potion of mutation, but it is quite unlikely.


I feel like this needs to be said again. You're very, very unlikely to get evolution from one potion of mutation, and even if you tried a few times you still are very unlikely to get it, and probably have enough bad mutations to get killed soon.

I used to like mutation roulette back when you could still bottle potions of mutation from every skybeast and ugly thing corpse, save up 30 potions, and really roll for a long time. Not so much anymore. I think that went away in either .9 or .10.

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Post Friday, 14th March 2014, 19:43

Re: Mutation Evolution

@ tasonir: oh wow, you wrote the Naga guide that I like very much! :D 8-)

Thanks for the answers, that made some things clearer. Guess I' ll stick to the potions of beneficial mutation for now.
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Post Friday, 14th March 2014, 20:17

Re: Mutation Evolution

Evolution can give you stuff like teleportitis, at least that's what happened to me. So I don't think it's a very good mutation.

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Post Friday, 14th March 2014, 20:27

Re: Mutation Evolution

evolution can give you Fun, so it is good.
my posts are to be read in a mildly playful tone, with a deep, sexy voice.
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Post Friday, 14th March 2014, 20:35

Re: Mutation Evolution

Hirsch I wrote:evolution can give you Fun, so it is good.


It gives you the fun without being terrible, too. Most of the bad mutations are not really bad at level 1, and some of those that are can't be gotten randomly. Evolution will also often take them away anyway.
I'm always happy to get evolution from a potion of beneficial mutation.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Friday, 14th March 2014, 20:36

Re: Mutation Evolution

Yep, teleportitis is lots of fun. Join Xom for double fun also.

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Post Friday, 14th March 2014, 20:37

Re: Mutation Evolution

rchandra wrote:Most of the bad mutations are not really bad at level 1, and some of those that are can't be gotten randomly.


Could you please elaborate on that? Which mutations cannot be given?

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Post Friday, 14th March 2014, 21:46

Re: Mutation Evolution

Slow can only be given from bad mutation, and fast from good one, neither from random.

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Sandman25

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Post Friday, 14th March 2014, 22:29

Re: Mutation Evolution

Actually, slow/fast can't be given at all any more (but nagas/felids/centaurs/spriggans start with it of course). Teleportitis at level 1 is not nearly as bad as a cursed ring of teleport, for example, since it has a limited range.

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Post Saturday, 15th March 2014, 02:56

Re: Mutation Evolution

Until now (started to play DCSS about a month ago) the worst bad mutation I got was Low MP (rank 1, max MP -10% ),
and, with some imagination, this one made me laugh: You occasionally shout uncontrollably. :D
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Post Saturday, 15th March 2014, 03:44

Re: Mutation Evolution

Eyesburn wrote:Until now (started to play DCSS about a month ago) the worst bad mutation I got was Low MP (rank 1, max MP -10% ),
and, with some imagination, this one made me laugh: You occasionally shout uncontrollably. :D


Mutations can get really nasty, though. Frail, Deteriorating(especially back when stat death was still a thing), Blurry Vision, Deformed Body, the list goes on.

The point is, carry rMut.
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Post Saturday, 15th March 2014, 05:06

Re: Mutation Evolution

Eyesburn wrote:Until now (started to play DCSS about a month ago) the worst bad mutation I got was Low MP (rank 1, max MP -10% ),
and, with some imagination, this one made me laugh: You occasionally shout uncontrollably. :D

Shouting is actually a delayed death sentence unless you can tank everything on your current level. Because you will never be able to consistently hide or duck out of sight and then sneak away. The shouts are random so you may duck and sneak a few times successfully then Bam! Surrounded.

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Post Saturday, 15th March 2014, 05:29

Re: Mutation Evolution

Hopeless wrote:
Eyesburn wrote:Until now (started to play DCSS about a month ago) the worst bad mutation I got was Low MP (rank 1, max MP -10% ),
and, with some imagination, this one made me laugh: You occasionally shout uncontrollably. :D

Shouting is actually a delayed death sentence unless you can tank everything on your current level. Because you will never be able to consistently hide or duck out of sight and then sneak away. The shouts are random so you may duck and sneak a few times successfully then Bam! Surrounded.


Unless your build relies on remaining unseen, like a stabber, shouting isn't that bad - just head back up a level and take a breather when necessary.

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Post Saturday, 15th March 2014, 05:41

Re: Mutation Evolution

Hopeless wrote:
Eyesburn wrote:Until now (started to play DCSS about a month ago) the worst bad mutation I got was Low MP (rank 1, max MP -10% ),
and, with some imagination, this one made me laugh: You occasionally shout uncontrollably. :D

Shouting is actually a delayed death sentence unless you can tank everything on your current level. Because you will never be able to consistently hide or duck out of sight and then sneak away. The shouts are random so you may duck and sneak a few times successfully then Bam! Surrounded.
This is the worst advice I have seen on this forum so far in 2014. Shouting is probably the single least harmful "bad mutation" in the game. Shouting is only loud enough to wake things up a few squares out of LOS - hell, sometimes it doesn't manage to wake things up that are IN LOS. So it will do absolutely nothing unless the monster is already in LOS (in which case guess what, it's going to wake up anyway, because it's in LOS!), or you are resting right next to unexplored territory for some reason (for much more important reasons, you shouldn't be doing that in the first place!), or you are on Tomb:3 (which normal games never visit!).
Here are some things that are as loud as shouting or louder: casting mephitic cloud, getting hit by a merfolk aquamancer wave, doing 39 damage with a melee attack using a mace.
The shouting mutation should be completely ignored in almost all contexts.

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Post Saturday, 15th March 2014, 09:09

Re: Mutation Evolution

Besides teleportitis it can probably give berserkitis, horns/antennae that will restrict helmets, fraility, etc. I probably wouldn't want any of those even if they come with something good. There is a very high probablity of acquiring one of those, because the chance is about 1/4.
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Post Saturday, 15th March 2014, 09:40

Re: Mutation Evolution

I consider *rage a good mutation (or artefact property) on almost all characters (not-stabbers of not-chei), until the very late game, though it causes me to have to think more about my attacks.
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Post Saturday, 15th March 2014, 15:53

Re: Mutation Evolution

Hopeless wrote:Shouting is actually a delayed death sentence unless you can tank everything on your current level. Because you will never be able to consistently hide or duck out of sight and then sneak away. The shouts are random so you may duck and sneak a few times successfully then Bam! Surrounded.

Aye, I am aware of the fact that shouting can attract monsters,
but it was funny to me to imagine deep elf wizard screaming uncontrollably and occasionally in those dark hallways of the dungeon. ^_^
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Post Saturday, 15th March 2014, 16:16

Re: Mutation Evolution

Amnesiac wrote:Besides teleportitis it can probably give berserkitis, horns/antennae that will restrict helmets, fraility, etc.


Well I agree that teleportitis is something that's generally always bad, berserkitis isn't too big of a deal if you're a spellcaster (you just need to remember not to melee anything until you can get it cured) and antennae lets you detect monsters through walls and you can still wear hats so losing your helmet isn't a complete downside (unless you find/found a randart helmet, but that's not always the case). Losing 10% of your max HP (or even 10% of your MP if you cast spells) sucks really bad though, and I've never really found level 1 horns to be more useful than the AC you get from helmets.

rchandra wrote:I consider *rage a good mutation (or artefact property) on almost all characters (not-stabbers of not-chei), until the very late game, though it causes me to have to think more about my attacks.


+Rage is good, *Rage is generally very bad if you hit things a lot. Really, unless you're always fighting 1v1 in every single situation and never taking on more than one enemy, having berserk kick in could potentially kill you if don't manage to kill everything before it wears off. (Well, actually, even if you're fighting 1v1 it could still get you killed.) You don't get *Rage from amulets of rage or Trog, so you if you have *Rage that means you're not going to be able to extend your berserk time, which makes it that much more risky.

Sar

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Post Saturday, 15th March 2014, 16:30

Re: Mutation Evolution

Laraso wrote:berserkitis isn't too big of a deal if you're a spellcaster

because spellcasters never melee anything right
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Post Saturday, 15th March 2014, 16:38

Re: Mutation Evolution

Sar wrote:because spellcasters never melee anything right


Well no, that's not what I said.

Laraso wrote:(you just need to remember not to melee anything until you can get it cured)


I said it's not "too big of a deal", because if you're a spellcaster then you don't need to melee anything, because you can kill things with spells. I never said it was good to have for spellcasters or even desirable, my point was that it isn't as big of a deal for spellcasters as it is for melee dudes. Melee dudes don't really have any way of avoiding triggering berserkitis, because they need to hit things with their weapon to do damage.

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Post Saturday, 15th March 2014, 18:06

Re: Mutation Evolution

Launchers, throwing, evocations, and casting spells do not trigger berserkeritis (probably some other stuff I'm forgetting too), and you can suppress berserkeritis with clarity or stasis, or simply by staying at very hungry as much as possible (won't go berserk at very hungry or hungrier), in addition to curing it through !cure mutation obviously.

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Post Saturday, 15th March 2014, 18:07

Re: Mutation Evolution

Yes, actually, staying on Very Hungry, while annoying, is a good way to suppress it.

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Post Saturday, 15th March 2014, 18:13

Re: Mutation Evolution

Very interesting topic! So practically teleportitis is the only truly terrible mutation, all other are in the "not really a big deal" category?

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Post Saturday, 15th March 2014, 18:20

Re: Mutation Evolution

worst mutation now is probably frail

teleportitis 1 is not a big deal, it's just excruciatingly annoying

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Post Saturday, 15th March 2014, 18:21

Re: Mutation Evolution

crate wrote:teleportitis 1 is not a big deal, it's just excruciatingly annoying


It can drop you among a lot of enemies, no?

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Post Saturday, 15th March 2014, 18:24

Re: Mutation Evolution

Now that you can't get slow movement, blurry vision is the worst mutation imo. Not only do you lose reliable scroll usage but you autoexplore into more traps. Frail would definitely be next though.

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Post Saturday, 15th March 2014, 18:46

Re: Mutation Evolution

Well according to folks who know, the mutation version of random teleport (unlike ring) has limits to how far it can teleport you, based on the tier of the mutation. It is harder to suppress than berserkeritis but stasis will do the trick. So teleportitis 1 is definitely not good, and probably worse than berserkeritis IMO (and definitely worse than shouting), but still it is usually something you can handle.

Now at tier 2, even stuff like deterioration can begin to actually impact you, and the worst mutations really start hurting. But in general the first level of even the worst mutations are manageable. Don't expose yourself to more mutation than you have to, of course, but they aren't something you need to be deathly afraid of.
Last edited by and into on Saturday, 15th March 2014, 18:48, edited 1 time in total.

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Post Saturday, 15th March 2014, 18:47

Re: Mutation Evolution

I played nearly an entire game with teleportitis 1 recently (thanks Xom) and it mostly just did nothing. The limited range makes it really wimpy.

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Post Saturday, 15th March 2014, 18:49

Re: Mutation Evolution

So should we do mutation roulette in every game now?
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Post Saturday, 15th March 2014, 19:00

Re: Mutation Evolution

Laraso wrote:+Rage is good, *Rage is generally very bad if you hit things a lot.

When I say that berserkitis is arguably good, it's because having haste and might against something I was willing to melee without either makes it hard to lose a fight. Any fight where that's likely to be a problem, you reposition and/or don't melee. Granted this means that when you have a rat in front of Norris (who you wanted to kill with say conjure flame/force lance/sticky flame) you shouldn't melee the rat, which is annoying.
I started noticing this with the amulet of Bloodlust, which is an extreme case of *rage (like berserkitis 3, according to learndb). Now bloodlust also has slaying and a very good extension on kills, so it's much better than berserkitis, (it enables berserking vaults 5 pretty easily) but it taught me that living with it was fine.

Sandman25 wrote:So should we do mutation roulette in every game now?

No. Getting the first level of a bad mutation still makes it easier to get the next levels, and blurry/frail are still unquestionably awful. This thread is about evolution though, and I claim that the drawbacks of evolution (occasional bad mutation, horns) are minimal.
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Post Saturday, 15th March 2014, 19:20

Re: Mutation Evolution

rchandra wrote: This thread is about evolution though


Its ok. I like the reading. :) Some useful info for me; new stuff has come to light. :)
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Barkeep

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Post Saturday, 15th March 2014, 19:24

Re: Mutation Evolution

Sandman25 wrote:So should we do mutation roulette in every game now?


"This thing is bad, but usually not as bad as people often make it out to be." =/= "Expose yourself to this bad thing as much as possible for a small chance at rather dubious minor benefits."

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