How often should DD use recharge?

[sir_laser]

I randomed a DDAK, and had to recharge /healwounds 8 times by the time I got to Lair:2. This is actually my first time playing a DD, so just wanted to get some input...thanks!

  Code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.14-a0-3293-g65a9edf (console) character file.

sirlaser the Cleaver (Deep Dwarf Abyssal Knight)    Turns: 8786, Time: 01:17:44

HP  35/71 (72)   AC 13     Str 20      XL: 10   Next: 79%
MP  17/17        EV  5     Int 15      God: Lugonu [****..]
Gold 465         SH  0     Dex  5 (12) Spells:  1 memorised,  7 levels left

rFire  . . .     SeeInvis .     F - +2,+1 hand axe of the Shallot {freeze, Str+3}
rCold  . . .     Clarity  .     E - +0 plate armour
rNeg   . . .     Conserve .     (no shield)
rPois  .         rCorr    .     (no helmet)
rElec  .         rRot     .     (no cloak)
SustAb . .       Spirit   .     e - +0 pair of gloves
rMut   .         Warding  .     g - +0 pair of boots
Saprov . . .     Stasis   .     (no amulet)
MR     +....                    (no ring)
                                (no ring)

@: non-regenerating, somewhat resistant to hostile enchantments, extremely
unstealthy
A: damage resistance, recharge devices, frail 1, sense surroundings 2, slow
healing 3
a: Device Recharging, Depart the Abyss, Bend Space, Banish, Corrupt, Renounce
Religion


You are on level 2 of the Lair of Beasts.
You worship Lugonu.
Lugonu is greatly pleased with you.
You are hungry.

You have visited 3 branches of the dungeon, and seen 11 of its levels.
You have visited the Abyss 1 time.

You have collected 525 gold pieces.
You have spent 60 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 D - a +5 blowgun
 F - the +2,+1 hand axe of the Shallot (weapon) {freeze, Str+3}
   (You found it on level 4 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It has been specially enchanted to freeze those struck by it, causing extra
   injury to most foes and up to double damage against particularly susceptible
   opponents. It can also slow down cold-blooded creatures.
   
   It affects your strength (+3).
 H - a glowing whip
 L - a battleaxe
Missiles
 f - 3 javelins
 l - 66 darts
 r - 5 steel tomahawks (quivered)
 y - 49 poisoned needles
Armour
 e - a +0 pair of gloves (worn)
 g - a +0 pair of boots (worn)
 E - a +0 plate armour (worn)
 K - a +2 leather armour of fire resistance
Magical devices
 c - a wand of heal wounds (1)
 A - a wand of fireball {empty}
 T - a wand of random effects {zapped: 10}
 V - a wand of draining
Comestibles
 d - 7 bread rations
 h - 6 meat rations
 z - an apple
 R - a sausage
Scrolls
 b - 2 scrolls labeled SAISSY NEO
 j - 2 scrolls labeled ABA RUOKUCAPPA
 k - 6 scrolls of remove curse
 o - a scroll labeled CROPAJ XELUW
 p - 12 scrolls of identify
 q - 5 scrolls of teleportation
 s - a scroll labeled ETREIB LAKALER
 u - a scroll labeled ZIETHO FUOP
 v - a scroll labeled KLUH UXARIL
 x - a scroll labeled TYLUNUGGYUJOMN
 C - 2 scrolls labeled SEOX UHAFAOL
 G - 3 scrolls of blinking
Jewellery
 w - an uncursed ring of magical power
 Q - a dented diamond amulet
 U - a bone ring
Potions
 i - a fizzy brown potion
 m - 7 potions of curing
 n - a murky orange potion
 t - a pink potion
 B - 2 smoky blue potions
 I - 2 slimy black potions
 J - 2 bubbling black potions
 M - 2 potions of brilliance
 P - a fuming silvery potion
 S - a slimy white potion
Books
 N - a book of Transfigurations   
   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   *Stoneskin                         Transmutation/Earth          2
   Ice Form                           Ice/Transmutation            4
   Statue Form                        Transmutation/Earth          6
   Dragon Form                        Transmutation                7
 O - a book of the Tempests   
   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   Static Discharge                   Conjuration/Air              3
   Lightning Bolt                     Conjuration/Air              5
   Fireball                           Conjuration/Fire             5
   Tornado                            Air                          9
   Shatter                            Earth                        9


   Skills:
 - Level 2.6 Fighting
 - Level 14.0 Axes
 - Level 2.1 Armour
 - Level 1.1 Dodging
 + Level 12.8 Invocations


You have 7 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Stoneskin             Trmt/Erth      #.........   100%        2    ###....


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (8/15)             Temple (1/1) D:6            Lair (2/8) D:8

Altars:
Okawaru
Zin

Shops:
D:5 (

Annotations:
D:7 exclusion: door
Abyss:1 Erolcha, Harold, Sigmund


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You are resistant to damage.
You can recharge devices by infusing magical energy.
You passively map the area around you.
You do not heal naturally.
You are frail (-10% HP).


Message History

You are feeling hungry.
Eat which item? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
Okay, then.
Unknown command.
You see here a robe.
You see here a sack of spiders.
A green rat comes into view.
You see here a sack of spiders.
Press: ? - help, v - describe, . - travel, g - get item
A sack of spiders.
The floor.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
Saving game... please wait.
Welcome back, sirlaser the Deep Dwarf Abyssal Knight.
Lugonu says: Spread carnage and corruption!
Press ? for a list of commands and other information.
Drop what? (_ for help) (? for menu, Esc to quit)
You drop a wand of draining {empty}.
A green rat comes into view.

▒·▒·(P▒▒▒▒     ▒▒· r··◦  ▒   ▒···
▒▒▒▒·▒▒        ▒·▒▒··P▒░▒    ▒▒··
   ▒··▒▒     ▒▒▒·····▒▒▒·    ▒▒··
  ▒▒·▒·▒     ▒fPr····▒▒·▒    ▒·▒▒
 ▒▒···▒▒     ▒····)·····▒   ▒▒▒··
 ▒····▒      ▒▒·········▒▒  ▒·▒··
 ▒·)▒▒▒       ▒··········▒  ▒▒···
 ▒··▒         ▒·/·······P▒▒▒▒▒▒··
 ▒·▒▒        ▒▒·@···········▒·▒··
▒▒·▒         ▒··········▒▒▒··▒▒··
▒··▒         ▒f····[····▒ ▒······
▒··▒         ▒▒·········▒▒▒▒·····
▒▒·▒          ▒··········▒ ▒▒▒▒··
 ▒·▒          ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒·▒▒▒   ▒···
 ▒·▒ ░               ▒·▒     ▒▒▒▒
▒▒·▒·▒              ▒▒·▒▒ ▒▒▒
▒··▒·▒        ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒···▒ ▒·▒▒▒▒▒


You can see a green rat.

Vanquished Creatures
  3 blink frogs (Lair:2)
  A wyvern (D:8)
  Eustachio (D:7)
  A hungry ghost (D:7)
  A hippogriff (Lair:2)
  Edmund (D:8)
  Menkaure (D:7)
  2 water moccasins (Lair:2)
  A necrophage (D:6)
  8 yaks
  A black bear (D:7)
  A phantom (D:8)
  2 ogres (D:8)
  2 sky beasts
  A crocodile (Lair:2)
  3 giant slugs
  Blork the orc (D:8)
  5 giant frogs
  2 jellies (D:5)
  3 wights (D:7)
  A crimson imp (D:5)
  4 hounds
  A quasit (D:8)
  A giant frog skeleton (D:8)
  2 orc priests
  2 orc wizards
  2 iguanas (D:7)
  3 worker ants
  A killer bee zombie (D:8)
  20 gnolls
  18 adders
  16 green rats
  A shadow imp (D:6)
  An inept feature mimic (D:4)
  An inept item mimic (D:5)
  5 worms
  An orc skeleton (D:8)
  A giant eyeball (D:8)
  2 oozes
  21 orcs
  4 giant cockroaches
  9 goblins
  9 hobgoblins
  14 jackals
  3 quokkas
  A ball python (D:1)
  17 bats
  3 giant geckos
  5 giant newts
  A giant spore (D:6)
  2 hobgoblin skeletons
  6 kobolds
  A kobold skeleton (D:5)
  12 rats
  2 rat zombies
  A ballistomycete (D:6)
235 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  The ghost of squid the Basher, an experienced FoHe of Elyvilon (D:8)
  5 blink frogs (Lair:2)
  An ogre (D:5)
  An orc warrior (D:8)
  A centaur (D:7)
  A gnoll sergeant (D:8)
  A troll skeleton (D:6)
  A ballistomycete (D:6)
12 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 247 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | Abyss:1  | sirlaser, the Deep Dwarf Abyssal Knight, began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | Abyss:1  | Reached XP level 1. HP: 20/20 MP: 1/1
    54 | D:1      | Escaped the Abyss
    67 | D:1      | Noticed a giant goldfish
    67 | D:1      | Noticed a shark
   274 | D:1      | Reached skill level 3 in Invocations
   334 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 27/27 MP: 3/3
   834 | D:2      | Acquired Lugonu's second power
   888 | D:2      | Reached skill level 4 in Invocations
   888 | D:2      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 30/33 MP: 5/5
  1637 | D:2      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 33/40 MP: 7/7
  2019 | D:3      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 21/46 MP: 9/9
  2198 | D:3      | Acquired Lugonu's third power
  2324 | D:3      | Noticed Sigmund
  2326 | D:3      | Banished Sigmund
  2326 | D:3      | Reached skill level 5 in Axes
  2738 | D:4      | Reached skill level 5 in Invocations
  2873 | D:4      | Found a glowing silver altar of Zin.
  2874 | D:4      | Found Zin's Purification Station.
  2902 | D:4      | Bought a potion of curing for 60 gold pieces
  3257 | D:4      | Got a polished hand axe
  3290 | D:4      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 29/55 MP: 11/11
  3304 | D:4      | Identified the cursed +2,+1 hand axe of the Shallot {freeze, Str+3} (You found it on level 4 of the Dungeon)
  3649 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  3729 | D:5      | Reached skill level 6 in Axes
  4023 | D:5      | Reached skill level 7 in Axes
  4150 | D:5      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 31/61 MP: 14/14
  4283 | D:5      | Got a heavily runed leather armour
  4301 | D:5      | Acquired Lugonu's fourth power
  4325 | D:5      | Identified the cursed -1 leather armour of the Game of Kings {rN+ Acc+4} (You found it on level 5 of the Dungeon)
  4419 | D:5      | Found Prontof's Antique Weapon Shoppe.
  4749 | D:6      | Reached skill level 8 in Axes
  4920 | D:6      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  5304 | Temple   | Entered the Ecumenical Temple
  5366 | D:7      | Reached skill level 9 in Axes
  5366 | D:7      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 39/67 MP: 17/17
  5409 | D:7      | Noticed Menkaure
  5428 | D:7      | Killed Menkaure
  5544 | D:7      | Learned a level 2 spell: Stoneskin
  5611 | D:7      | Reached skill level 10 in Axes
  5756 | D:7      | Acquired Lugonu's fifth power
  6006 | D:7      | Reached skill level 11 in Axes
  6158 | D:8      | Noticed squid's ghost (experienced FoHe)
  6159 | D:8      | Banished squid's ghost
  6159 | D:8      | Gained mutation: You passively map the area around you. [level up]
  6159 | D:8      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 47/73 MP: 13/18
  6163 | D:8      | Noticed Blork the orc
  6180 | D:8      | Killed Blork the orc
  6214 | D:8      | Gained mutation: You are frail (-10% HP). [mutagenic meat]
  6436 | D:8      | Found a staircase to the Lair.
  6450 | D:8      | Noticed Edmund
  6468 | D:8      | Killed Edmund
  6468 | D:8      | Reached skill level 12 in Axes
  6502 | D:8      | Noticed Erolcha
  6506 | D:8      | Banished Erolcha
  6640 | D:8      | Found an iron altar of Okawaru.
  6698 | D:8      | Noticed Eustachio
  6789 | D:7      | Killed Eustachio
  7029 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts
  7072 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 10 in Invocations
  7083 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 13 in Axes
  7175 | Lair:1   | Reached XP level 10. HP: 62/71 MP: 17/17
  8115 | Lair:2   | Noticed Harold
  8125 | Lair:2   | Banished Harold
  8372 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 14 in Axes


Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Hand axe          |    78 |   226 |   423 |   248 ||   975
 Fire: Blowgun           |       |       |     6 |       ||     6
Throw: Tomahawk          |    35 |    48 |    57 |    48 ||   188
       Dart              |    34 |    58 |    18 |       ||   110
       Javelin           |       |       |    64 |    11 ||    75
 Cast: Stoneskin         |       |       |     1 |       ||     1
Invok: Bend Space        |       |     1 |     4 |       ||     5
       Banish            |       |     1 |    10 |    10 ||    21
 Abil: Device Recharging |       |       |     6 |     2 ||     8
Evoke: Wand              |       |     4 |    35 |    21 ||    60
  Use: Potion            |       |       |     1 |     1 ||     2
       Scroll            |       |       |     2 |     4 ||     6



[duvessa]

when the wand runs out of charges

[godzilla]

Playing a DD with no Vampiric Draining or Makhleb/Trog is much harder than otherwise. Honestly, 8 times seems about right under those conditions. Also, I would consider fighting and armour to be a much higher priority than invocations for your character right now.

[and into]

Use the battleax, and train up your defenses.

For Lugonu, 12.8 invocations is plenty for **** and more than enough for where you are in the game, actually. That gives strong banish and good corrupt. At some point after you max piety and brand a weapon with distortion I'd get 14 invocations or so for enter the abyss (just in case), but yeah for now bulk up on defenses.

[some12fat2move]

Scrolls
b - 2 scrolls labeled SAISSY NEO
j - 2 scrolls labeled ABA RUOKUCAPPA
k - 6 scrolls of remove curse
o - a scroll labeled CROPAJ XELUW
p - 12 scrolls of identify
q - 5 scrolls of teleportation
s - a scroll labeled ETREIB LAKALER
u - a scroll labeled ZIETHO FUOP
v - a scroll labeled KLUH UXARIL
x - a scroll labeled TYLUNUGGYUJOMN
C - 2 scrolls labeled SEOX UHAFAOL
G - 3 scrolls of blinking

Potions
i - a fizzy brown potion
m - 7 potions of curing
n - a murky orange potion
t - a pink potion
B - 2 smoky blue potions
I - 2 slimy black potions
J - 2 bubbling black potions
M - 2 potions of brilliance
P - a fuming silvery potion
S - a slimy white potion

This is not good

[WalkerBoh]

As often as it takes to not die.

[sir_laser]

Thanks for the feedback! How well does Corruption kill things (Vaults, Uniques, i.e. monsters that are too powerful to Banish)?

[dck]

Very very well. It basically destroys any vault, pack of monsters or unique.

[mopl]

Scrolls
...
p - 12 scrolls of identify
...

Potions
i - a fizzy brown potion
m - 7 potions of curing
n - a murky orange potion
t - a pink potion
B - 2 smoky blue potions
I - 2 slimy black potions
J - 2 bubbling black potions
M - 2 potions of brilliance
P - a fuming silvery potion
S - a slimy white potion

This is not good

Neither is :

  Code:

Gained mutation: You are frail (-10% HP). [mutagenic meat]

[Magipi]

Very very well. It basically destroys any vault, pack of monsters or unique.

How does it work in the Zot:5 orb chamber? It can't destroy unnaturally hard walls, no?

[sir_laser]

Neither is :

  Code:

Gained mutation: You are frail (-10% HP). [mutagenic meat]

Shit happens? Lost that gamble.

v Yeah, but I randomed this char (DDAK no less); just wanted to see what would happen.

[savageorange]

^ mutation roulette being bad is something that basically every veteran manages to agree on. This might have something to do with the fact that 50/50 chance of good/bad mutation can not be classed as favorable (especially considering that some mutations classed as 'good' have downsides that may cause you to consider them bad for that character), only as mediocre.
(It may also be worth mentioning that the chance of bad mutations (or losing good mutations?) appears to rise in proportion to the number of mutations you already have.)

[sir_laser]

What's a good Axe to corrupt? Should it even be done?

[TheArcanist]

^ mutation roulette being bad is something that basically every veteran manages to agree on. This might have something to do with the fact that 50/50 chance of good/bad mutation can not be classed as favorable (especially considering that some mutations classed as 'good' have downsides that may cause you to consider them bad for that character), only as mediocre.
(It may also be worth mentioning that the chance of bad mutations (or losing good mutations?) appears to rise in proportion to the number of mutations you already have.)

While in the theoretical situation of playing ultra-optimally and not considering any metagame outside the Dungeon, yes, this is true, I think it doesn't quite capture points where, practically speaking, mutation roulette isn't all that bad an idea.

If you're a XL 3 fighter that finds a potion of mutation early, why not chug it? At worst the mutations kill you quickly, and you lose the five minutes it takes to reroll. At best, it gives you several powerful mutations like Robust or MR - well worth the risk and time investment, imo.

What's a good Axe to corrupt? Should it even be done?

Distortion is a pretty powerful brand if you worship Lucy, imo. Obviously against enemies you always want to keep in melee range you should use something else, so I wouldn't rebrand your 'best' weapon this way, but now that Lucy worshipers can switch weapons freely I can hardly see why you shouldn't have at least have an off-weapon corrupted.

Mechanically, distortion adds a flat amount of damage when the damage proc goes off, so it's best on fast weapons. There aren't many of those in the axes catagory, but if you find a quick blade I'd say it's worth branding it and getting the 8 skill it takes to mindelay it - coupled with slaying bonuses, a quickblade of distortion can do monstrous amounts of damage.

[sir_laser]

While in the theoretical situation of playing ultra-optimally and not considering any metagame outside the Dungeon

So are a bunch of other things, like scumming for Ornate decks of Wonder by sacking all your permafood. But it generally promotes bad behavior/habits/assumptions that'll get people killed later.

[Sandman25]

Different people have different goals when playing crawl. I hate to lose even XL 1 character and I suspect I would hate to win a character who couldn't win without mutation roulette.

[duvessa]

If you're a XL 3 fighter that finds a potion of mutation early, why not chug it?

Because maybe you are interested in actually winning the game sometimes?

[and into]

Also having !mutation already IDed on D:3 is a pretty good position to be in, as far as the consumable ID game is concerned, which is particularly important early on, and particularly important for a fighter. Even if you are low on ?identify, that means you can quaff ID potions (in a pinch) that you have several of in an out-of-the-way place, with absolute, 100% safety. That's an advantage, which you may throw away on a gamble with mutation roulette.

When giving advice generally I try to relate what I think is best play; I can be wrong, of course, but that's the goal I strive for when I'm giving advice. Obviously people should play the game however they want, and sometimes I do silly stuff in Crawl for the hell of it too. But usually people don't have a problem doing silly stuff that they find fun. They sometimes do have a problem understanding what will increase their chances to win with a given species/combo or god or whatever, because that's not a purely subjective question, and isn't always clear.

[tasonir]

when the wand runs out of charges

My understanding is that recharge can at most recharge a wand by max charges - 2, so I recharge wands when they hit 2 charges. Better than going into a fight with only 1 charge when you need 2

[crate]

I personally recharge DD's healing wand at 4 charges or so, since I'd rather "waste" some recharging than have to recharge mid-fight.