Consumables are meant to be used!

[Laraso]

Consumable conservation is a trap, and it's a trap that I struggled with for a very long time before I even realized what I was doing. It's for that reason I'd like to share my experience to hopefully help anyone else who's having the same problem. This post will probably sound stupid to those who already understand how to use their consumables.

Very often I would often end up in a risky situation early in the game, and opt to not quaff heal wounds because "I might need it later". Then, when "later" finally came, I once again found myself saying "nope, I'm not going to read this blink scroll. I might need it later...". That would continue until I inevitably got myself killed while hoarding 5 potions of heal wounds, 4 scrolls of teleport, 2 potions of speed, etc. etc., all because I figured "I'll need these later". Eventually, this became my 'default', and I'd avoid using consumables without even thinking about it.

This continued on for many years (I've been playing since 2009), and I'd rarely get a character into the Lair. I went four years without ever managing to grab a single rune, let alone survive long enough to make it to the final floor of a branch. "What am I doing wrong? Am I doomed to suck this badly forever?", I'd often think to myself. Eventually, I finally had an epiphany and realized what I had been doing wrong all this time. I was playing a character and I had just arrived in the lair. "OK, I somehow managed to make it to the lair, the first thing I should do is set up a stash, because I'm barely able to hold all the crap in my inventory." After I made the stash, I took a trip to the temporary stash I was forced to make in the temple so I could haul it to my main stash in the lair. It took two trips to move it all, and that's when I realized something. "Wait a second, I'm in the lair right now and yet I haven't quaffed a single potion or read any scroll besides identify. I've come frighteningly close to death at least five times already in this game, and yet I'm walking around barely able to keep all of these scrolls/potions/wands from spilling out of my pocket. I carry them around all the time but I never use them, and I'm getting myself killed in stupid ways that could be easily avoided."

I had been placing the value of my own life below the value of consumables. I had been more willing to die than I was to quaff a potion / read a scroll / zap a wand and continue to live. I realized that when I say to myself "I'll need these later", 'later' is actually 'now'.

I believe a good way to comprehend this is to compare consumables to gold and shops. You should not spend all of your gold buying four leather armors and three pairs of boots in the first shop you come across. Using gold like that is wasteful, because you're spending it on things that you don't need. However, it is also just as wasteful to not use your gold to buy that ring of rPois before heading into Spider. You might think, "I'd rather save this gold in case I find something else I want in a different shop", but what good does that hypothetical future item do for you if you end up dying to the poison of a redback spider? Gold is meant to be spent, it has absolutely no other purpose and does not benefit you by sitting in your inventory, and the value of gold does not increase by collecting more gold. Gold is a resource, and if you don't use it, the resource is wasted.

In the same way that gold shouldn't be needlessly spent on things you don't need, you shouldn't quaff a potion of berserk rage to kill a rat that you could have otherwise dealt with safely without using any consumables. However, if you choose not to read that scroll of blinking because you "might need it later", what good does that blink scroll do for you if you die before that hypothetical future situation even happens? Consumables are meant to be used, they have absolutely no other purpose and they do not benefit you by sitting in your inventory, and the effectiveness of consumables does not increase by collecting more consumables. If you have ten scrolls of teleport the teleportation is not going to kick in any faster than it would if you only had one, and if you have ten potions of speed they wont make you any faster than they would if you only had one. Consumables are a resource, and if you don't use them, they're wasted. In addition, consumables should not be quantified. You should not allow the amount of a particular potion or scroll you have to alter your decision making progress. If you need it, you need it, and it's better to run out of a consumable than it is to die without using it.

Since I've actually started using my consumables, I've noticed a significant increase in my skill. I still suck pretty bad, but now I'm able to get characters into the lair consistently, and I've managed to win a three-rune game -- twice. I hope this helps anyone else who might be having this problem.

[and into]

Yes.

I think dying with consumables that could have helped (because you were saving them) is much more common than people wasting a potion of berserk rage to kill a rat, though, so in general I'd just say to players who are still struggling with surviving early on: Use whatever it takes to survive. That's key; the other big thing is learning to identify danger early and being willing to use consumables *before* the situation is desperate. In other words, moving from purely reflexive and reactive use of consumables to proactive use is a big step.

[zrn]

the other big thing is learning to identify danger early and being willing to use consumables *before* the situation is desperate. In other words, moving from purely reflexive and reactive use of consumables to proactive use is a big step.

Yup, brilliance, agility, might, speed are all super powerful potions but don't benefit much unless you use them before you get into a bad situation. A huge thing that increases the life of your scrolls of blinking is using agility + might at the start of the battle rather than risking fighting unbuffed, and then needing to burn a blink to get away.

[n1000]

Our goal is not to win. It is to die with an empty inventory.

[whitmo]

Great discussion, thanks! I just created a character named UseYourConsumables so that every time I load the character I am reminded of this strategy. I am playing a FeBe (a simple combo for testing this strategy; my goal is to win with nothing more than 3 pieces of nice jewelry in my inventory) and just killed Grinder on D:4 with a combo of !heal wounds, trog's hand, berserk.

[Klown]

Worst thing is to die in the very early game and find out you had a potion of experience unidentified.

[Laraso]

Our goal is not to win. It is to die with an empty inventory.

That first part is incorrect. Your goal is to win. However, if you're going to die, then yes you need to make sure you do it with an empty inventory. Don't let yourself die when you still have options to save yourself.

[dck]

While I agree with using your consumables and still think the first thing that keeps players from improving is obsessing over inventory management instead of the actual game (often while not actually drawing any benefit from that management since they don't use a single), I disagree with the part about gold. If I'm in D: 5 and I have 400 g and a shop is offering a bunch of un-ID'd boots and leather armors I'll probably buy all of them one by one since +0 auxiliar armor is a hell of a lot better than no aux armor at all (you can use ?ea on it for starters) and enchanted aux armor or modestly enchanted body armors also helps massively.

Well actually I wouldn't buy them straight away and would check the rest of the level first, since if one shop exists on the level more are likely to have been placed, but after this I would go back and buy whatever could be of use (including chances at better armor) without paying the idea of saving for future possible shops any attention.

[Laraso]

I honestly haven't the slightest clue what you're talking about. What is "auxiliar armor"?

[dck]

boots, gloves etc

[crate]

Related: it's pretty helpful to enchant aux armour right away, for a few reasons.

1) Aux armour in general is much rarer than body armour; it's rare enough that even finding +1 gloves/boots is not guaranteed, much less ones with an ego (this is less true for cloaks/helmets: enchant those after boots/gloves)
2) For boots, the only really gamechanging ego is running, which is so rare that you can just safely assume you will never find it. For gloves/helmets, the possible egos are not very useful. +2 AC is in fact often better than the egos you will actually find.

And of course more AC right now is better than more AC later. You're unlikely to switch from one pair of boots to another, so these AC upgrades carry over even if you change body armours. Ego cloaks are common enough that waiting to enchant a cloak can make sense, but I'll very nearly always enchant gloves/boots right away.

[and into]

crate's heuristic is exactly my way of thinking, too.

re: gold. In much the same way that searching the rest of the level is a good idea unless the thing you want to buy in the first shop is an obvious choice with no gamble, if you find a shop on Orc 2 or 3, it may be worth waiting until you clear orcish mines before making any shopping decisions. Of course, if it is an obvious choice (wand of heal wounds or something) or helpful and really cheap, then don't delay.

[dpeg]

Everyone who's encouraged to stop hoarding is spot on -- that's one of the crucial roguelike lessons to learn, alongside with "you don't have to attack it right now".

However, I think there should be a counterpoint to this: while new players are prone to being too conservative with consumables, one can also be too lax. A better player will be forced to use consumables less often, and will get more out of them. So ideally -- in the interest of depth -- there should be a consumable-saving learning curve after the consumable-using one. Something to this effect exists in Crawl (this thread contains examples), but I am sure it could be better.

[crate]

However, I think there should be a counterpoint to this: while new players are prone to being too conservative with consumables, one can also be too lax. A better player will be forced to use consumables less often, and will get more out of them. So ideally -- in the interest of depth -- there should be a consumable-saving learning curve after the consumable-using one. Something to this effect exists in Crawl (this thread contains examples), but I am sure it could be better.

One of my favourite things I've ever read about crawl is something that I read long ago and is probably lost to the depths of the interwebs now. It went something like this:
"The first thing you learn in crawl is to use consumables. The second thing you learn is to not use them."

[Patashu]

Everyone who's encouraged to stop hoarding is spot on -- that's one of the crucial roguelike lessons to learn, alongside with "you don't have to attack it right now".

However, I think there should be a counterpoint to this: while new players are prone to being too conservative with consumables, one can also be too lax. A better player will be forced to use consumables less often, and will get more out of them. So ideally -- in the interest of depth -- there should be a consumable-saving learning curve after the consumable-using one. Something to this effect exists in Crawl (this thread contains examples), but I am sure it could be better.

Rather than being lax with consumable management, it's more likely you're being lax with danger level management which forces a 'consumable or die' situation. So, you have two orthogonal issues to tackle here.

As an introduction to danger level management, I found these two posts in a previous crawl thread great for getting you to think, so I will just repost their great advice:

Rule 0, crate:

So instead of giving you lots of advice and overwhelming you with information, I will provide instead this single, not-as-simple-as-it-sounds piece of information I use to tell apart good players from not-good players: You should almost never move toward an enemy that is in your line-of-sight. Once you understand this you will improve.

Rule 1, Lasty:

* If you notice your health decreasing, take your hands off the keyboard, look at your current health level, and assess the level of danger. If you aren't 100% certain that continuing to fight is safe, start planning to escape. If your health is below 60% and you aren't about to defeat all monsters in sight in the next action or so, it's probably time to leave.
* Once you realize you are in trouble or will be soon, stop taking any actions. Review your inventory, your spells, and your abilities, and try to come up with a list of your options to resolve the trouble. Don't make another move until you know what you're going to do next.
* A lot of actions make noise: fighting (especially with heavy weapons), spells (especially certain conjurations like Mephitic Cloud, Fireball, and Lightning Bolt), and wands (esp. wand of lightning). If you make a loud noise and are near unexplored territory, retreat ASAP to avoid the monsters that will be drawn to the noise. Noise brings monsters to an area, but they won't follow you unless they notice you specifically. Their odds of noticing you and tracking you are based on your stealth rating. Another way to decrease the impact of noise is to only fight in explored territory.

[Amnesiac]

Since you've mentioned gold, I'll share my experience about it. I don't know if this is the right way, but I always buy all unidentified magic/artifact items like armour pieces and weapons of the category I use. Magical items are by default are more useful than vanilla items and artifacts have a chance to be an uber randart that will change your game. BUT I'm not sure it's a good idead to buy jewellery to clear some branch earlier, if you have some other places to clear first, that's the mistake(I think it is) I used to make, too, but then I'd found out, that very often you end up finding what you needed in the process of clearing other available areas. Those 280 gold you spend on a ring of rPois, you could have spent on an awesome randart/nice branded weapon(electrocution on short blades if you use them) which would really let you kill monsters easier, instead of just making spiders/snakes safer.

As for consumables, scrolls of blinking are awesome, but there is no use for them after you die, I agree about that. Also, don't forget that fog can buy you some time to round a corner/go to stairs too, when I was new, I think I used to completely disregard those.

[Arkhan]

* If you notice your health decreasing, take your hands off the keyboard, look at your current health level, and assess the level of danger. If you aren't 100% certain that continuing to fight is safe, start planning to escape. If your health is below 60% and you aren't about to defeat all monsters in sight in the next action or so, it's probably time to leave.

This is literally the reason I mod my Low HP warning setting to fire at 60%, mp at 50%, and HP is 60 for yellow and 40 for red. Panic when you're losing the battle, not when you're almost dead, and you can usually scramble away up a staircase or around a wall. Almost dead means it's time to drop the hammer and read blink, read teleport, invoke divine protection, cast death's door, or whatever other emergency button you happen to have squirreled away.

[Sandman25]

I modified my settings to automatically save game when I get high damage, it works great so far as I can see my current dump in a separate browser tab and decide what to do before loading the game.

[rchandra]

I modified my settings to automatically save game when I get high damage, it works great so far as I can see my current dump in a separate browser tab and decide what to do before loading the game.

On the one hand this is the most amazing idea, on the other I don't see how you could do extended without Necromutation this way :). D:1-2 sounds a bit rough too.

[Sandman25]

I modified my settings to automatically save game when I get high damage, it works great so far as I can see my current dump in a separate browser tab and decide what to do before loading the game.

On the one hand this is the most amazing idea, on the other I don't see how you could do extended without Necromutation this way . D:1-2 sounds a but rough too.

I think I will edit it before extended (though I am not sure yet, I got tormented thrice from the same fiend during ascension, hoping to run away from it - maybe it wasn't even stupid, I don't understand how he tormented me when I had the same speed and was at the edge of his LoS all this time). I am used to warnings, I have a "more" dialog for "You got your breath back" for example, it greatly helps my Nagas early game.