"Nemelex’s deck gifts are now independent of sacrifice type"

[Moanerette]

Thread title is a quote from the 6 March trunk update notes. Does this mean that Nem's deck gifts are now random?

[vulsuck]

Yes, it was changed to the following:
40% Destruction
30% Summoning
20% Escape
10% Wonders

It no longer depends on the types of items you sacrifice. It sounds like a good change, but I haven't tried it yet.

[Moanerette]

Ooh, no chance of Dungeons. Nice.

[Lyrick]

No more insta bigstack permafood sacrifice Wonder decks...

[some12fat2move]

Does this mean your first deck has a 10% chance to be Wonders regardless of your actions? To me that sounds like a really concerning change; getting Wonders as your first deck is extremely bad since you have a useless deck in the part of the game where you really need a useful deck, and not only that, it creates a circumstance where it is tempting and perhaps even optimal to do Wonders roulette in order to get a useful deck faster. I hope we can remove Wonders or at least have some special case so that your first deck is never Wonders.

[dck]

Have wonders only be gifted after piety *, getting wonders as your first deck does sound pretty bad.

[crate]

I still think a god that has such a wide range of powerful tactical effects as Nemelex does should simply not offer beneficial strategic effects like decks of wonders.

[XuaXua]

Wonders has always been a possibility as a first deck.

[and into]

Wonders has always been a possibility as a first deck.

If you only sacrificed corpses immediately after joining Nemelex, I am pretty sure the chance for Wonders for first deck was a lot lower than 10%.

Wonders should probably be reworked quite a bit or removed. Or perhaps remove Wild Magic and have Nemelex give one deck of legendary wonders (IDed as such) as a one-time, special, guaranteed gift when you hit six stars of piety for the first time?

[Sprucery]

So Dungeons are only randomly generated? I want my legendary Trowels!

[mopl]

So Dungeons are only randomly generated? I want my legendary Trowels!

So do I
Too bad

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[Hirsch I]

I want mercenaries

[stickyfingers]

So Dungeons are only randomly generated? I want my legendary Trowels!

Trowel is now in Wonders.

[Sprucery]

Trowel is now in Wonders.

Great! Water and Dowsing have their uses too, but getting rid of Vitrification and Minefield makes up for them. I won't miss Dungeons now in 0.14.

[banei]

Since we're on the subject of Nemelex...
Am I the only one who stock piles *everything* until I get to his alter if I'm planning on going with Nem?

[and into]

Certainly not, Nemelex encourages lots of annoying stuff unfortunately. On the bright side, it seems that Nemelex is being worked on actively at the moment. Hopefully the change to randomized deck type for gifts is just the first of several improvements.

[Igxfl]

I will now actually play Nemelex. He was always a fun god, but the sacrifice management was previously too annoying. Thanks, devs!

[damiac]

Yes, this makes nemelex sound much less painful to play with. I'll have to try it again sometime.

I guess I don't mind having to go hoover mode, at least it's easy piety...

[and into]

I'd still push for further Nemelex reform (auto-sacrifice conduct rather than manual choice sacrifice, starting piety determined by total value of all items seen up to point of joining, but suffering major stepdowns that effectively cap max starting piety at like *** or something). That would fix 90% of Nemelex's problems, and some really minor tweaks to card effects would solve the rest. It is kind of frustrating because Nemelex has really good stuff going for him, and really annoying stuff, however for the most part the two are completely separate and can be easily distinguished (unlike e.g. Beogh which would require more major changes to ally behavior to fully streamline), so you can just remove the bad stuff and Nem would be great. But this isn't GDD so I won't derail further.

[asdu]

Does anyone happen to have a post-March 6th compiled build they're willing to put on a file sharing site? The most recent archived trunk build is from February 26th.

[Hirsch I]

it is not hard to compile it yourself.
it can be scary at first, but after you get the hang of it is pretty rewarding. like crawl.

[Siegurt]

Does anyone happen to have a post-March 6th compiled build they're willing to put on a file sharing site? The most recent archived trunk build is from February 26th.

Since I compile windows console frequently, and have a public online crawl share, I decided to go ahead and throw this up there:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9gS_GOJ_xARTVc0UzN4VnQ2d2M/edit?usp=sharing

It's from last night some time, console only, don't blame me if you don't like the contents therein

(There's also random other crawl related stuff in that share, if you've got some hankering for that crap)

[asdu]

@ Siegurt: Much obliged

it is not hard to compile it yourself.
it can be scary at first, but after you get the hang of it is pretty rewarding. like crawl.

Yeah, I've done it in the past (other stuff, not DCSS) and, from what I remember, setting up the whole operation, learning the basics and figuring out by myself the parts that aren't covered by guides/readme files/intruction manuals is a long, headache-ridden process. In all honesty, I don't consider it worth it just to compile Crawl once. The thought did come up in my mind but was discarded almost immediately

[Hirsch I]

I put it to work in 10 minutes, no problems, and update it daily in a matter of seconds... and I'm a caveman when trying to use a computer. maybe I just got lucky.

[arcanist]

is the compiled tiles version available somewhere? I would really like to try this one.

I actually think that this change will create an option of scumming. if the deck chances are fixed, I will just rotate my decks as fast as I can - basically i will not use anithing else then decks to fight mosters to get wonders.

[dck]

but wonders is a terrible deck.

[and into]

Well tabling the fact that wonders is a terrible deck (not disputing it but putting it aside for a moment), how is this change more scummy than the status quo ante? Before this change you could just burn up permafood and avoid sacrificing anything else and get mostly wonders. Spamming cards is what you want to do with Nem anyway, so this change basically just forces you to play at least somewhat not super-scummy in the way you could before. Using lots of the good decks lets you win so it is nice that now you are actually encouraged, even if you want to be a Wonder-scummer, to play Nemelex somewhat reasonably by throwing summonings and destruction at stuff in order to get Wonders. So win-win I think, honestly.

[Sandman25]

Maybe wonders is a terrible deck but it is still my favorite one. In my last game I stopped caring about all summoning/destruction/escape/dungeon decks because I had many of them and didn't need more. But every deck of wonders was still useful, Experience/Helix/Sage is good.