Which weapon should I use?


Ask fellow adventurers how to stay alive in the deep, dark, dangerous dungeon below, or share your own accumulated wisdom.

Vaults Vanquisher

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Post Friday, 7th January 2011, 10:54

Re: Which weapon should I use?

It's odd they both don't have any other special things on them aside from anti-magic and holy wrath.

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Post Friday, 7th January 2011, 11:37

Re: Which weapon should I use?

lollipopman91 wrote:I'm a lvl 17 HaBE of Trog and i'm torn on what of his weapons gift to use i have never had so many strong weapons before so i dont really know what is best.

B - a +4,+8 anti-magic katana (weapon) {god gift}
P - a +4,+4 double sword of holy wrath {god gift}

I have never had a anti-magic weapon before how useful is that brand?

I also have some shields of reflection in my stash how good are they? is it worth it tp try to find a single handed weapon for the extra protection of shields?


That katana is awesome by itself, and a combo with a shield of reflection (they reflect blocked missiles and magic attacks back where they came from) sounds great.

Anti-magic works well against anything that casts spells - hitting these monsters may cause them to fumble their casting, effectively a loss of action.

That double sword may be a good switch against demons and undead, but I'd personally stick with the katana/shield combo.
... and forgive us our YASDs,
As we forgive our developers,
And lead us not into the Abyss,
But deliver us from Sigmund,
For Thine is the Roguelike,
the Orb and the Victory,
now and forever.

Vaults Vanquisher

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Post Friday, 7th January 2011, 12:04

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Isn't the katana a two-hander?

Blades Runner

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Post Friday, 7th January 2011, 12:21

Re: Which weapon should I use?

szanth wrote:Isn't the katana a two-hander?


One and half hander.

But he's a halfling, so the katana can be a twohander for him, not sure about that.
... and forgive us our YASDs,
As we forgive our developers,
And lead us not into the Abyss,
But deliver us from Sigmund,
For Thine is the Roguelike,
the Orb and the Victory,
now and forever.
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Shoals Surfer

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Post Friday, 7th January 2011, 14:21

Re: Which weapon should I use?

lollipopman91 wrote:I'm a lvl 17 HaBE of Trog and i'm torn on what of his weapons gift to use i have never had so many strong weapons before so i dont really know what is best.

B - a +4,+8 anti-magic katana (weapon) {god gift}
P - a +4,+4 double sword of holy wrath {god gift}

I have never had a anti-magic weapon before how useful is that brand?

I also have some shields of reflection in my stash how good are they? is it worth it tp try to find a single handed weapon for the extra protection of shields?


I would probably pick the double sword. I don't like the anti-magic brand. Anti-magic works best on weapons with high base damage iirc. Monsters trying to cast a spell may lose a turn. A shield of reflection is nice, but it isn't necessary.

szanth wrote:Isn't the katana a two-hander?


For a halfling? Yes.

Dungeon Master

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Post Friday, 7th January 2011, 21:01

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Anti-magic is currently broken in that it works on stuff like orbs of fire and electric golems so I would definitely keep it around. The katana's base damage is probably sufficient that it'd be pretty great.
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Spider Stomper

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Post Saturday, 8th January 2011, 15:01

Re: Which weapon should I use?

I THINK that this one is a pretty one sided decision, but...

the +5, +2 short sword "Jyot {god gift, flame, EV +1}

or

+0, +2 dagger of speed

I'm pretty sure the short sword, but should I lug around the dagger too? I'm playing a KoBe.
You see here a dire elephant corpse.
You start butchering the dire elephant corpse with your claws.
You continue butchering the corpse.
You are engulfed in roaring flames. You stop butchering the corpse.
You die...

Vaults Vanquisher

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Post Saturday, 8th January 2011, 19:32

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Yeah the short sword's better.

Halls Hopper

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Post Saturday, 8th January 2011, 19:55

Re: Which weapon should I use?

well if you're zerking, that's +1d10 slaying. So I'd use the dagger of speed :)

I love speed weapons plus slaying though :)
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Spider Stomper

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Post Saturday, 8th January 2011, 20:07

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Ehh, I've taken a liking to the short sword, given that it takes care of hydras wonderfully. Still, I'll remember to consider the dagger (I'm still lugging it around for some reason anyways).
You see here a dire elephant corpse.
You start butchering the dire elephant corpse with your claws.
You continue butchering the corpse.
You are engulfed in roaring flames. You stop butchering the corpse.
You die...

Swamp Slogger

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Post Sunday, 9th January 2011, 06:31

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Okay, this isn't technically a "weapon X or weapon Y" question, but I think it meets the spirit of the thread.

I've got a level 15 Merfolk Ice Elementalist of Yredelemnul. I just cleared the Lair and the Swamp (getting my first-ever rune in the process, though a previous MFIE made it to level 22), and I'm currently using a +1/+2 Trident of Piercing (which started out as an ordinary +0/+1 trident before I test-ID's scrolls on it). However, I've had unusual luck with scrolls, and I'm currently sitting on an impressive 4 Enchant Weapon Is and no less than nine Enchant Weapon IIs, plus another spare Vorpalize Weapon. I've yet to find any interesting weapons (apart from a mediocre randart Spear of Piercing that's barely better than the trident in its current state).

Is it worth it to just enchant the hell out of my generic trident right now, or is there something more impressive I should hold out for?

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Post Sunday, 9th January 2011, 08:32

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Sjohara wrote:Is it worth it to just enchant the hell out of my generic trident right now, or is there something more impressive I should hold out for?


Ehh… That depends. Is this trident your main source of damage, or is it for poking rats to train fighting while your Throw Icicle and Bold of Cold spells do most of the real work? A regular trident isn't a very good late-midgame or endgame weapon, but you do have to GET to that part of the game first.

Eventually, you want to find a demon trident. It's probably the best normally-generated polearm, since it does respectable damage and allows a shield. Demon tridents are pretty easy to find once you start seeing demons, and once find one with a brand you like you're set for the game. Or if you are planning to convert to TSO anyway, you can just pick up whatever crappy demon trident you find first, because she'll overwrite the brand anyway.

Swamp Slogger

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Post Sunday, 9th January 2011, 17:52

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Whether melee or magic is my main focus depends entirely on what I find. Currently I'd just as soon cast Freeze as attack in melee most of the time because I don't have a very impressive weapon yet, but long-term I generally expect my MFIEs to play like crusaders moreso than conjurers. My most successful one to date learned Haste and mostly hacked stuff up with a randart electric glaive.

I have no plans of switching to The Shining One (or anyone else, for that matter; I'm not comfortable dealing with wrath). I'd definitely be holding out for a demon spear if I was getting a god-brand. Demon spears seem to be really rare, though, and nothing between tridents and demon spears allows a shield (I'm operating under the assumption that a two-hander won't be worth using unless it's an artifact, in which case it won't be enchantable anyway). Do the kinds of demons that carry demon spears generate regularly outside of the hells? This is not going to be an all-rune game, in case that wasn't clear (it'd be a miracle if it turned out to be a two-rune game).
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Shoals Surfer

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Post Sunday, 9th January 2011, 18:03

Re: Which weapon should I use?

No. Only red devils, balrugs and hell knights generate will demon tridents iirc.

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Post Sunday, 9th January 2011, 18:40

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Gehenna is probably the best place to try to force generation of a demon trident. The first six floors are relatively safe as long as you can handle the occasional Executioner. It's actually probably safer than the main dungeon below the point the Vestibule becomes accessible, although you cannot simply kill all the monsters because they keep spawning. Make sure you max out your fire resistance and leave your scrolls outside.

Yred is probably a pretty safe goddess to abandon if you want to test the wrath mechanics. She doesn't really do much that's very threatening (oh, no! zombie orcs and I'm only at L27! now I'm rotting! better quaff a single potion of healing!) and is best in the early game anyway. There's probably no point in switching specifically to TSO, though, if you're only going for three Runes, because her conducts are particularly obnoxious in Zot.

Dungeon Master

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Post Sunday, 9th January 2011, 19:00

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Balrugs have demon whips, not tridents. Red devils and hell knights are where it's at. It's not that uncommon at all in my experience to find a demon trident before you go to Hells, though. Margery's band, and other hell knight bands give you a good chance of getting one. They're also one of the few weapons I have pretty good success in getting with weapon acquirement (you probably want to be using a buckler/shield to stop it giving you a two-hander though).
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Halls Hopper

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Post Monday, 10th January 2011, 01:17

Re: Which weapon should I use?

danr wrote:Okay:

HaBe,
Short blades 9,
Long blades 8,
Shields 8.

Trog just gifted me the -1, +4 Katana "Jyocyepn" {holy, rF+, rN+, +Rage} (Question - why would Trog gift a +Rage weapon? Is he encouraging me to make it on my own?)

The big downside is that I have to give up my buckler to use it :(

I'm wanting to transition to long blades but so far my best LB is a +2,+1 long sword of slicing or a +0,+2 scimitar of flaming. EDIT: I just got a +4 long sword of Abomination {speed, rF+, Str -3}

My go-to short blades are:
+3,+8 elven quick blade (I'm hoping to vorpalize it)
+0,+3 sabre of electrocution

So: is the katana better than the quick blade (for demon fights, is it worth unstrapping my buckler to wield this katana? my only other holy blade is a +1 orc falchion.)


Well, if +Rage works like an amulet of rage (and I think it does), using a weapon with +Rage will decrease the chance of fainting after a berzerk and increase the duration increase you get from killing and chopping stuff.

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Post Monday, 10th January 2011, 09:19

Re: Which weapon should I use?

GermanJoey wrote:
danr wrote:Okay:

HaBe,
Short blades 9,
Long blades 8,
Shields 8.

Trog just gifted me the -1, +4 Katana "Jyocyepn" {holy, rF+, rN+, +Rage} (Question - why would Trog gift a +Rage weapon? Is he encouraging me to make it on my own?)

The big downside is that I have to give up my buckler to use it :(

I'm wanting to transition to long blades but so far my best LB is a +2,+1 long sword of slicing or a +0,+2 scimitar of flaming. EDIT: I just got a +4 long sword of Abomination {speed, rF+, Str -3}

My go-to short blades are:
+3,+8 elven quick blade (I'm hoping to vorpalize it)
+0,+3 sabre of electrocution

So: is the katana better than the quick blade (for demon fights, is it worth unstrapping my buckler to wield this katana? my only other holy blade is a +1 orc falchion.)


Well, if +Rage works like an amulet of rage (and I think it does), using a weapon with +Rage will decrease the chance of fainting after a berzerk and increase the duration increase you get from killing and chopping stuff.


The fainting prevention is a moot point anyway, as Trog prevents you from fainting on a piety-in-150 chance. By the time you receive gifts from Trog, you have enough piety to be fully protected from fainting.
... and forgive us our YASDs,
As we forgive our developers,
And lead us not into the Abyss,
But deliver us from Sigmund,
For Thine is the Roguelike,
the Orb and the Victory,
now and forever.

Spider Stomper

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Post Monday, 10th January 2011, 09:47

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Just recently started MdFi. I have a +1/+2 hand axe of venom and an unenchanted broad axe. I can't decide if I should stick with the venom one or just go for the broad axe since it deals more damage without having to wait for the poison. (Also I found scimitar of holy wrath, gonna keep that just in case)

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Post Monday, 10th January 2011, 10:01

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Jenx wrote:Just recently started MdFi. I have a +1/+2 hand axe of venom and an unenchanted broad axe. I can't decide if I should stick with the venom one or just go for the broad axe since it deals more damage without having to wait for the poison. (Also I found scimitar of holy wrath, gonna keep that just in case)


Note the weapon speed. Until you get some decent skill level in Axes (~10), you may want stick with the hand axe.
... and forgive us our YASDs,
As we forgive our developers,
And lead us not into the Abyss,
But deliver us from Sigmund,
For Thine is the Roguelike,
the Orb and the Victory,
now and forever.
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Vestibule Violator

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Post Monday, 10th January 2011, 15:42

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Yeah, press "@" while wielding each weapon and see how it describes your attack speed.

I like the venom brand in the early game because it deals with that annoying thing where monsters start running away when they are low on HP ("Stand still and let me kill you, dammit!!") because they just succumb to the poison as they are running away.

Vaults Vanquisher

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Post Monday, 10th January 2011, 16:49

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Yeah it seems like enemies run away a lot more often in trunk, but it might just be me...

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Post Tuesday, 11th January 2011, 01:26

Re: Which weapon should I use?

lollipopman91 wrote:I'm a lvl 17 HaBE of Trog and i'm torn on what of his weapons gift to use i have never had so many strong weapons before so i dont really know what is best.

B - a +4,+8 anti-magic katana (weapon) {god gift}
P - a +4,+4 double sword of holy wrath {god gift}

I have never had a anti-magic weapon before how useful is that brand?

I also have some shields of reflection in my stash how good are they? is it worth it tp try to find a single handed weapon for the extra protection of shields?

Katana + Shield of Reflection is beast.
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Vestibule Violator

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Post Tuesday, 11th January 2011, 02:34

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Halflings can't do katanas with shields. I learned this because my HaBe found a +4 katana of holy wrath with +Rage, rF+, rN+ :(

Halls Hopper

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Post Thursday, 13th January 2011, 11:51

Re: Which weapon should I use?

noob Deep Elf Wizard

r - a +4,+6 orcish mace of protection (weapon)
M - the +5,+11 dagger of the Visionary {vamp, -TELE +Lev rF++ Str+4}

I have been using the mace for the +5AC. I have Lev elsewhere. Don't like the -TELE.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Thursday, 13th January 2011, 12:54

Re: Which weapon should I use?

As well you shouldn't. Were it not a vampiric weapon, it would be worth keeping it around to switch to for rF++, but as it is… I'm struggling to think of a good situation to use it. +5 is a big AC boost, so you might as well stick with the mace until something better shows up.
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Vestibule Violator

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Post Thursday, 13th January 2011, 15:01

Re: Which weapon should I use?

A dagger won't deal huge damage anyway, and the healing you get is dependent on damage, so it would not be as good anyway as a bigger vampiric weapon. A vampiric triple sword, then you'd be talking!

Lair Larrikin

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Post Thursday, 13th January 2011, 15:37

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Koblod of Trog, I have been using a +3 +11 Saber {+2 dex -cast flame} and Mara just dropped an electric demon blade. Should I switch?

Blades Runner

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Post Thursday, 13th January 2011, 15:55

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Fnord wrote:Koblod of Trog, I have been using a +3 +11 Saber {+2 dex -cast flame} and Mara just dropped an electric demon blade. Should I switch?


Wow. For me, instant switch.
... and forgive us our YASDs,
As we forgive our developers,
And lead us not into the Abyss,
But deliver us from Sigmund,
For Thine is the Roguelike,
the Orb and the Victory,
now and forever.
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Vestibule Violator

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Post Thursday, 13th January 2011, 16:55

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Oh yeah, fo shizzle. Demon blades do the most base damage that kobolds can wield, and electric does awesome damage that most things can't resist.

Lair Larrikin

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Post Thursday, 13th January 2011, 19:30

Re: Which weapon should I use?

This one is fairly simple:

+x demonwhip of elec
+x demonwhip of flame

This DSNe is dead now (my second guy to successfully plumb Hell for all four runes and then die on Tomb:3) but I got these at literally the same time on a level where Mara, Donald, and Margey all generated and had sufficient scrolls to make them basically the same minus the brand. I went with elec except in Cocytus but it didn't seem to matter much.

Vaults Vanquisher

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Post Thursday, 13th January 2011, 19:32

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Are demon blades 2h for kobolds?

Regardless, remember to spend time training long blades before taking on anything especially horrible.

Spider Stomper

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Post Thursday, 13th January 2011, 20:55

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Trying this weird SpBe combo. I think I have a nice selection of sharp things, but can't choose. (only level 7 by the way)

Dagger of speed, saber of flaming or saber of venom?

I also have a randart dagger which seems to be designed specifically to piss me off. It gives +stab which isn't that important since it's a friggin dagger, it's damage is going to suck anyway, it has resist poison for which found a ring a bit after I found the dagger, it gives See Invisible which I don't need and it makes me more hungry which I also don't need. Only useful thing I guess is that it also allows me to levitate so I might keep it as a source of levitation.
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Post Thursday, 13th January 2011, 21:19

Re: Which weapon should I use?

I'd go with the Sabre of Venom wielded, and for anything squishy. Save one of the others for undead and rPois things.
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Post Thursday, 13th January 2011, 22:17

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Speed is nice on big weapons. For small weapons it is only good against monsters with little to no AC (which there are a lot of in early game though).

Use the flaming sabre on undead stuff (which are rPois but vulnerable to flame), and later, hydras and ice beasts and simulacra (ditto).

Spider Stomper

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Post Thursday, 13th January 2011, 22:46

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Mostly kept with venom as main and flame as secondary. Sadly, yet another promising character got killed by stupidity. Also, Torg's early gifts suck. A short sword of electrocution and a dwarven crossbow of flaming. Uh yeah, thanks a bunch Torg, but did you not notice the fact I don't have any crossbow skill and I'm wearing a freakin' buckler?
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Shoals Surfer

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Post Friday, 14th January 2011, 18:42

Re: Which weapon should I use?

the +9,+7 longbow "Braotef" {god gift, speed, rF+ Str-2}

vs

a +3,+5 longbow of velocity

I already know that the speed brand does less overall damage than the vorpal brand when it comes to ranged weapons, but the fire resistance is tempting.

Edit: dead

Spider Stomper

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Post Friday, 14th January 2011, 20:28

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Ok, again a SpBe, however this time the choice is a bit different. I have a +0 +4 dagger of electrocution and I just found a long sword of freezing. I also 8 levels in my short blades. Should I just forget about them and switch to long or stick and hope Trog gives me something good later on?
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Post Friday, 14th January 2011, 21:16

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Dude, electrocution is a seriously wicked brand on a dagger. One of the best actually.

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Post Friday, 14th January 2011, 21:19

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Things got a bit more complicated. I did get a few levels in Long Swords, just in case. I found a scimitar of electrocution, I also got a saber of venom (finally!) which I'm using right now. I started diving into the Lair and Trog gave me a runed katana (no idea of it's enchantment, no brand) and I manage an avatar attack speed (compared to my "quite fast" with the saber).

Lair Larrikin

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Post Saturday, 15th January 2011, 03:40

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Playing a KoAs here, and have the choice between:

a +3,+1 short sword of speed
the +6,+4 sabre "Hikhar" {slice, Str+2 Int +4}

I'm leaning towards the short sword (I think it does more damage but I've never bothered with the calculations), but the stats on the sabre are rather nice considering I'm only at D:4.

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Post Saturday, 15th January 2011, 16:56

Re: Which weapon should I use?

I have a XL6 TrMo Trog who's off to a good start - 2 rings of evasion +2, good supply of escape and survival items.

But I just found a +4,+5 War Axe of Innocence {Speed, Noisy, rElec, rMagic, EV+5, Stlth++}

The noisy totally cancels out the stealth and then some, but the rest seems amazing for a weapon find this early. The problem of course, is that I'm an unarmed monk - is it valid for this kind of build to just pick up an axe and start chopping, or am I giving up too much to stop using unarmed over the long term?

I just don't know how unarmed progresses through the mid to high levels of the game.
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Mines Malingerer

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Post Saturday, 15th January 2011, 17:08

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Vastin wrote:I have a XL6 TrMo Trog who's off to a good start - 2 rings of evasion +2, good supply of escape and survival items.

But I just found a +4,+5 War Axe of Innocence {Speed, Noisy, rElec, rMagic, EV+5, Stlth++}

The noisy totally cancels out the stealth and then some, but the rest seems amazing for a weapon find this early. The problem of course, is that I'm an unarmed monk - is it valid for this kind of build to just pick up an axe and start chopping, or am I giving up too much to stop using unarmed over the long term?

I just don't know how unarmed progresses through the mid to high levels of the game.


war axe in a one-hander, so your offhand will trigger an extra unarmed attack. that looks like a pretty awesome one, too, so it's win-win!

Temple Termagant

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Post Saturday, 15th January 2011, 17:18

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Sounds good to me. I'm giving it a spin now.

I have already learned that its probably a good idea to un-equip it when I'm first breaching a level - having it start babbling just as I go down the stairs and pull 10+ enemies in the radius makes for more excitement than is probably healthy. ;)

gb

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Halls Hopper

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Post Sunday, 16th January 2011, 00:02

Re: Which weapon should I use?

DemonOfWrath wrote:Playing a KoAs here, and have the choice between:

a +3,+1 short sword of speed
the +6,+4 sabre "Hikhar" {slice, Str+2 Int +4}

I'm leaning towards the short sword (I think it does more damage but I've never bothered with the calculations), but the stats on the sabre are rather nice considering I'm only at D:4.


a sabre will almost always do more damage than a short sword...i would go with sabres as much as possible with a kobold
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Vestibule Violator

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Post Monday, 17th January 2011, 03:12

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Playing another SpBe after my near miss with the first. Went with 2-handed long blades instead of a shield this time due to different finds in the early game (no lucky buckler of reflection, or of any kind, for that matter :p )

the +5,+5 double sword "Pse Phak" (weapon) {god gift, venom, AC+1 Int+3}
a +6,+6 katana {god gift}

What's better? I'd guess the double sword, since it has a higher base damage, and venom, but I seem to remember people talking about katanas as a fairly sought after item. Is there something I'm overlooking?

Currently 12 in long blades.
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Vestibule Violator

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Post Monday, 17th January 2011, 03:47

Re: Which weapon should I use?

Have you checked your attack speed? Press Shift-2 while wielding each weapon and see which one is faster. Speed is the big advantage of a katana I think.
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Vestibule Violator

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Post Monday, 17th January 2011, 04:11

Re: Which weapon should I use?

I get above average with the double sword, and quite fast with the katana.

Double sword is 16+5 = 21, Katana is 14+6 = 20 max damage.

So the double sword gets one more max damage, plus venom, and the katana gets one better rank in speed. I'm guessing, in terms of damage per crawl unit time, that this means the double sword is better against anything fleshy, and the katana is better against anything not.

Of course the katana has the long term advantage of being enchantable and vorpalizable.
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