Sif or Veh for a OpCj?

[Hirsch I]

so, I'm playing some Op casters recently, and they are very fun. but I'm stuck with a problem: this is pretty much the first time I play a non draconian "caster', that can melee most things, and I'm not sure wich god I should follow. I dont exactly love necromancy, so no kIku.
so my choices are the shy librarian sif muna or her crazy metalhead sister Vehumet.
I dont actually want to know wich one is more powerful, but rather wich challenges I should expect from taking one or the other. for example: can I survive with the starting book until sif starts gifting? Veh only gives me damaging spells, can I count on the support spells I find on the floor? things like that. so, what do you guys think?

[diviton]

I'd go Vehumet.

[Hirsch I]

yeah, I imagine most people would. but why?

[savageorange]

can I survive with the starting book until sif starts gifting?

Easy question, the answer is 'yes'.. Cj starting book is pretty good IME, I've never felt underpowered until ~DL14, regardless of god choice. But I must add that I'm not very experienced with Sif.

WRT Veh, in later game the MP restoration from kills is really helpful, it allows you to do things like spamming Tornado to wipe out entire rooms. In early game the range and power boosts help, too. (maybe particularly relevant for an Op, since mediocre Conj apt.)

Veh spell gifting is less reliable than you'd like. You'll be offered powerful conjuration spells, but it's only likely, not certain, that they'll match your existing skilling. Also I'd say there's about a 30% chance that you don't obtain some source of Blink before your 3rd rune, which is kind of important, so Sif is better on that front.

[Amnesiac]

some source of Blink

That's what I like about Wz. Veh will give conjurations anyway.

[Magipi]

Veh spell gifting is less reliable than you'd like. You'll be offered powerful conjuration spells, but it's only likely, not certain, that they'll match your existing skilling.

Well, multiply this by 100 and you'll get Sif. With Sif, be prepared for endless frustration: you will get useless spellbooks again and again. Furthermore, her abilities are worse than Vehumet's.

Also I'd say there's about a 30% chance that you don't obtain some source of Blink before your 3rd rune, which is kind of important, so Sif is better on that front.

I don't get this, what is the connection between the 3rd rune and blink?

[crate]

Personally I'd much rather worship Sif, but the only time I ever like Veh is for heavy armour casting (obviously not a thing with op).

Actually I'd probably choose a different god altogether; Fedhas, Kiku, Jiyva, Nemelex, or Zin (well less so on the last two since they have huge annoyance to go with the fun things) all sound more fun than Sif or Veh for opcj most of the time. But if I don't want to deal with a god then Sif. Maybe Ash is better also but dealing with curses bothers me enough that I haven't played an Ash game in more than a year (of course the same is true for Veh, but that's for a different reason).

[cerebovssquire]

WRT Veh, in later game the MP restoration from kills is really helpful, it allows you to do things like spamming Tornado to wipe out entire rooms. In early game the range and power boosts help, too. (maybe particularly relevant for an Op, since mediocre Conj apt.)

I think Sif channeling is better for MP restoration. You get to cast buffs and still start the fight with full HP, and if you are using careful tactics and fighting as few monsters at a time as possible, then Veh won't restore as much MP while Sif is just as good. He's better in zigs but in a normal game I would prefer Sif under most circumstances.

[Amnesiac]

In trunk I like to try the new god - dith on both spellcasters and stabbers. For casters it's just some damage boost, easier hydridising with stabbing and even some minor evasion boost from umbra. maxed piety+magic dart is pretty good with the new shadow shards and if you couple that with battlesphere, I think it should get pretty insane.

You didn't ask, but since crate mentioned taking a different god as an option...

[savageorange]

Also I'd say there's about a 30% chance that you don't obtain some source of Blink before your 3rd rune, which is kind of important, so Sif is better on that front.

I don't get this, what is the connection between the 3rd rune and blink?

That's because there is no inherent connection. after you get your 3rd rune, if you continue you're going into postgame, things get increasingly hairy, so Blink becomes less of a 'nice' thing and more a 'necessary' thing. This is part of why Formicids having Stasis is such a big deal ( have fun trying to get Cerebov's rune with stasis

Dith is fairly strong for Conj currently (I'm running a DeCj of Dith), but it seems like shadow mimic is heading for a rebalance so it may not stay that way.

[Hirsch I]

well, thank y'all! I'll go sif for the moment, later I'll post the dump, if it survives through lair :3
much love guys.

[Amnesiac]

Just played a MuWz of Sif and now playing Dith - the second is much more interesting.
Unlimited mp is just... meeh, seriously... I'm not trolling.

[Hirsch I]

yeah, I gess one could see it this way. but I would like to play a little more on the magical gods side for a while. and as I see here, siff will add the versatility I'll need to win with a squishy octopus, and I like that.

[Hirsch I]

awn, Hill giant and killer bee pack before I reach temple? thats evil...

[Hopeless]

awn, Hill giant and killer bee pack before I reach temple? thats evil...

I feel that pain. I keep running into stuff that is just a tad more powerful than I can handle just at the moment when I can't find an effective exit strategy.

[Hirsch I]

oh, I wish that was what happened. fleeing from hill giant, the killer bees wandered into my escape route. it was my fault, because I burned my tp scrolls needlessy. still not nice

[Viashino_wizard]

One thing about Vehumet is that the wizardry bonus lets you cast powerful spells way sooner than you'd normally be able to. You can get Fire Storm online before you have your third rune if things go your way. The extra range is nothing to be sneezed at either, especially on spells like Iron Shot and Fireball.

[and into]

Well late to the party here, but another thing to keep in mind is that the conjurer book is really strong and can carry you very far on its own, so it isn't a big deal if Sif doesn't give you damage spells in the first book gift or two. Also octopodes can be hard to make non-fragile (you can get stuck at 1 AC for a ridiculously long time with bad luck) so having some help from defensive-oriented spells is huge, and Sif helps with that while Vehumet just gives you bigger ray guns. So, between the two, I'd probably prefer Sif on Op except maybe for Ice Elementalist.

Abuse the hell out of channeling it is really strong, even if it can be a bit annoying since you have to eat more chunks and that gets a bit tedious (still worth it though).

[Hirsch I]

Op of sif is pretty good.it is hard, but surprisingly powerful. is really teaching me a lot about not playing like an idiot.
and I need to remember to erase my ghosts.

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Hirsch OpCj-11 slain by Hirsch's ghost
Hirsch OpCj-8 slain by Hirsch's ghost
Hirsch OpCj-14 slain by Hirsch's ghost
Hirsch OpCj-6 slain by Hirsch's ghost