skipping 0.5 turn

[Amnesiac]

Is it possible to wait for 0.5 turn instead of unequipping jewellery? I don't think there are a lot of situations where you would want to skip a whole turn with monsters in sight.

[Hopeless]

Is it possible to wait for 0.5 turn instead of unequipping jewellery? I don't think there are a lot of situations where you would want to skip a whole turn with monsters in sight.

Isn't that a function of your speed and equip speed? Also why would you want to unequip Jewelry to get half a turn? *confused*

[Amnesiac]

I unequip jewellery to skip half of a turn. Why? That's because in a whole turn anything can happen

I don't unequip anything else because it takes much longer and I don't unequip my weapon, because I don't want to be without a weapon for the next half of a turn.

[Tedronai]

I think you are micro-optimizing too much... It will not result in a lower turn count for your score either. If your attack speed is lower than a turn you can swing at the air I guess (ctrl + direction).

[Amnesiac]

In a whole turn monsters will often get double actions, I don't want that. I would actually want to be able to wait for 1aut to be in complete controll over the situation. If you have a quickblade it's a bit better, but what if you don't have empty space to swing at

[Tedronai]

How would you not have empty space to swing at AND want to wait for the monster to do something? Even in this cheesy setup the monster is right in front of you or you can swing:

  Code:

###.#
##.##
###@#
#####


I'd propose to do something to actually dispatch the monster instead of waiting for the perfect moment to do so.

[daggaz]

You might find counting tempo in chess more rewarding..

[Amnesiac]

Wouldn't it me more comfortable to be able to see what's actually happening, while you wait?

[moocowmoocow]

Curious what situation you use this in. You mean like you're afraid if you wait one turn a monster will move two squares instead of one?

[Amnesiac]

I would use this for most of fast enemies to avoid double actions against me. Half a turn is somewhat to long, now that I think about it. I would prefer qb mindelay at least.

[moocowmoocow]

I don't understand why it's worth losing half action of your own? Sorry I'm dumb.

[duvessa]

Generally it is optimal to move away from the monster until it closes to you (thanks to randomized energy, this is true even for speed 10 monsters). But if you need to stay where you are, the fastest action is unwielding a weapon at 3 aut, unfortunately wielding it again is 5 aut.

[1010011010]

I believe there was talk of a "wait until something happens or 1 turn" which acts like a mini 5 key to be used in battle.

[Amnesiac]

Generally it is optimal to move away from the monster until it closes to you (thanks to randomized energy, this is true even for speed 10 monsters). But if you need to stay where you are, the fastest action is unwielding a weapon at 3 aut, unfortunately wielding it again is 5 aut.

I'm not that meticulous to do that for speed 10 monsters, though. Unless waiting for 1 aut becomes possible. I do usually swing with a qb at an empty space, though.

[duvessa]

I believe there was talk of a "wait until something happens or 1 turn" which acts like a mini 5 key to be used in battle.

This was actually implemented, but was reverted shortly after being committed.

[Rast]

I believe there was talk of a "wait until something happens or 1 turn" which acts like a mini 5 key to be used in battle.

This was actually implemented, but was reverted shortly after being committed.

Why?

[Amnesiac]

Yes, why? Imo it would be one the most awesome features.

[cbkazl]

I believe there was talk of a "wait until something happens or 1 turn" which acts like a mini 5 key to be used in battle.

This was actually implemented, but was reverted shortly after being committed.

Why?

Searched through the git repository, I believe this is the commit message for the change:

  Code:

Finer interrupt granularity for wait command (#4893).

The wait command now operates by performing up to ten interruptible 1
aut wait delays (still counted as one game turn). They are normally
interrupted by most of the same things as a travel command, with the
major exceptions being seeing or sensing a monster - instead, it is
interrupted by seeing a monster move.

This allows the wait command to be much more useful tactically, as it
will stop waiting at the instant the position of a monster changes
(impacting the tactical situation).

A side effect of this is that the move_nowhere command ('.') waits 1 aut
instead of 10 aut. If this becomes a problem, . could be rebound to the
normal wait command, or a new lower level command could be introduced to
take the place of the current use of the move_nowhere command.

There is a bit of a hack in place to consider 'wait' 1 game turn and
'rest' the same up-to-100 game turns that it currently is (instead of up
to 10 and 1000 respectively). If this becomes problematic, it can easily
be removed.

and the revert:

  Code:

Revert wait command interrupt changes.

This is causing slowdowns on long waits and other issues such as much
faster constriction damage.


[Amnesiac]

Still, it would be AWESOME if this would be implemented with fixing those problems

[XuaXua]

Curious what situation you use this in. You mean like you're afraid if you wait one turn a monster will move two squares instead of one?

Monster approaches you.
You don't have reach or ranged. or are less effective with them.
If you move towards the monster, you get hit.
If you wait 1 full turn, he may move next to you AND hit you due to his speed.
If you wait "unequip jewlery"-sized turn, he may move next to you, but you can get a hit in on him before he can hit you.

This does not apply to all monsters.

The request makes complete sense in this context.

Appropriate posts in this thread have been thanked.

[moocowmoocow]

Curious what situation you use this in. You mean like you're afraid if you wait one turn a monster will move two squares instead of one?

Monster approaches you.
You don't have reach or ranged. or are less effective with them.
If you move towards the monster, you get hit.
If you wait 1 full turn, he may move next to you AND hit you due to his speed.
If you wait "unequip jewlery"-sized turn, he may move next to you, but you can get a hit in on him before he can hit you.

This does not apply to all monsters.

The request makes complete sense in this context.

Appropriate posts in this thread have been thanked.

Interesting. Never did micromanage that much.

[XuaXua]

Appropriate posts in this thread have been thanked.

Interesting. Never did micromanage that much.

I always considered it in theory, but never considered trying it (or how to) till this thread.

I have recognized that monsters do occasionally perform a "cheap" hit when they shouldn't be able to, but I was never sure how to mediate that and chalked it up to intentional variance.

[popsofctown]

Is it better to add a .1 wait command to the game, or let people figure out quirky ways of waiting? Open question.

I'm glad I learned about attacking the air, I didn't know about that.

[XuaXua]

I'm glad I learned about attacking the air, I didn't know about that.

Oblig. video

[daggaz]

In all honesty though, if a monster is approaching you where the difference between avoiding or taking the first hit actually makes a real difference regarding the final outcome of the fight, you should be executing one of your various escape options. Not juggling jewelry.

[Amnesiac]

You don't understand. It's all about the perfection.

[popsofctown]

Every little bit of efficiency helps. Maybe being the one to get the first hit will let you win the fight without resorting to a piety cost skill, and that could help further down the road. There are gray areas like that between "burn all your escape resources" and "hold down tab"

[some12fat2move]

In all honesty though, if a monster is approaching you where the difference between avoiding or taking the first hit actually makes a real difference regarding the final outcome of the fight, you should be executing one of your various escape options. Not juggling jewelry.

There are situations where it won't really affect the outcome of the fight, but may reduce the damage you take so you spend less time resting (burning piety) afterwards.

[and into]

The issue isn't so much about whether skipping 0.5 turns (5 auts) is an extremely useful or necessary ability. The problem is that currently in game there are ways to take up fractions of a turn and thus skip ahead less than 1 turn, but these involve somewhat spoilery and, at any rate, silly actions. Swapping jewelry should be done because switching to the jewelry you chose is worth the cost in time, whatever that cost may be. Having the time cost be useful for arranging your position is dumb and should either be removed (ring swap takes 1 turn, weapon swap either takes 1 turn or is instantaneous, as quivering is currently) or else a non-buggy "wait until next monster action, or else 10 aut" command to replace "." and/or "s" should be implemented.

EDIT: On second thought, so long as Chei and nagas are things that exists probably a "wait until next monster action, or else 10 aut" command is warranted, whatever else happens with ring or weapon swapping.

[Amnesiac]

A very minor thing that I've come across is that when you want to stab a wandering monster you want to see where he moves, to avoid bumping into each other, especially when it's speed is not normal. I love stabbing wandering monsters with my dex based stabbers. For example, take HaAs, he ends up with something like 33 Dex(+items,) and has +3 and +4 aptitudes in the related skills, which makes focusing on this something to consider, for me (As you ca see, I like these focused characters, that might seem not optimal to you ).