Unable to proceed past the early game

[crate]

Guardian spirit actually works fine for DD if you can recover MP somehow with it on.

[Sar]

Oh, right. I guess you can channel or use !magic.

[Hopeless]

I mean that is pretty great set of equipment (except for your weapon, which is awful, rings, which do nothing of note, and amulet, which does not work on DD). Well and your Str is kinda bad for that GDA but it's a +12 GDA so it's probably still worth using.

Aren't you glad you aren't me? (Does that make you feel good? It should...)

[Hopeless]

Guardian spirit actually works fine for DD if you can recover MP somehow with it on.

I figured it was working as intended. Guess that's what I get for not reading every single bit of lore.

[Hopeless]

Also, what IS wrong with the sling?? I thought it was pretty nifty.

[Sar]

It's a character that can win. I mean if you are just going to quit any character that can win you will never win, yes.

that's what I get for not reading every single bit of lore

You put it on, your mana is set to zero, it doesn't regenerate. Seems pretty self-explanatory to me.

Also by weapon I mean short sword. That quick blade would be better, especially enchanted, though Short Blades is not what I would choose on this character. Sling though, best sling would be probably a regular sling of velocity, enchanted heavily. Also, acquiring weapons with Trog is kind of a waste.

[Hopeless]

It's a character that can win. I mean if you are just going to quit any character that can win you will never win, yes.

that's what I get for not reading every single bit of lore

You put it on, your mana is set to zero, it doesn't regenerate. Seems pretty self-explanatory to me.

Also by weapon I mean short sword. That quick blade would be better, especially enchanted, though Short Blades is not what I would choose on this character. Sling though, best sling would be probably a regular sling of velocity, enchanted heavily. Also, acquiring weapons with Trog is kind of a waste.

@Sar I was tempted just start ignoring your posts because of your words' tone but I get that you may feel frustrated by my own posts and that despite your sarcasm here and generally snarky remarks you are trying to help, so I will respond here in an attempt to get things straight.

1) I didn't control-Q. I just stopped playing. I have read many places and times that it is recommend to do just that when stymied. Should I just plow on until the character is irrevocably dead? Perhaps but not tonight.
2) I am sure in the hands of a good player that this character could win with 15 runes. Lets just stipulate (from the evidence at hand) that I am NOT such a player. OK?
3) CLEARLY I didn't understand how the amulet worked. I assumed (wrongly) that it was working properly. As I said I didn't read up on how the thing worked which is clearly a big sin in Crawl.
4) Ah, yes the short sword is the fallback. Just happened to have it equipped there because I was using it (strangely enough). The reason I have not been using the quick blade is I found it doing near to 0 damage pretty consistently. (Perhaps I didn't give it enough of a chance) It would be nice if I found a brand scroll. If I recall correctly I chose to raise some SB because I found that short sword on a very low level and it served very nicely as a backup. I do have a sling of Velocity upstairs (somewhere), I figured being able to brand my generic bullets/stones after the specials ran out (often) would be worth. I have only acquired one usable weapon (the sling). And Trog has given me mostly gifts of bullets. (And yet they still run out!).

Overall I am sorry you are so disappointed in my use of this perfectly set up character.

@Sandman, I did try without the big honking shield and it did help a little (too bad I wasted 11 levels of xp on it eh?)

[Sar]

Eh, I can be an asshole. No idea on damage difference between those weapons, sorry, I don't use that kind of weapons usually.

[Psiweapon]

Hopeless:

BRANCH HOPPING.

Go to a branch, do a couple of levels, gets nasty? go to another branch. Gets nasty? get back to main dungeon. Repeat.

Juggling them makes much more sense than plowing straight down once several branches are available.

[Sandman25]

That specific shield is really special and makes extremely loud noise every time when it blocks a hit, that's why I suggested to remove it. The XP in Shields is possibly not wasted, you can be lucky to find a really good shield and a really good 1-handed weapon. I won a DD with a shield and it was very helpful indeed.

[Hopeless]

That specific shield is really special and makes extremely loud noise every time when it blocks a hit, that's why I suggested to remove it. The XP in Shields is possibly not wasted, you can be lucky to find a really good shield and a really good 1-handed weapon. I won a DD with a shield and it was very helpful indeed.

My assumption is that sometimes that shield is insanely good (where it doesn't matter how much noise is made for example)? I hope to continue my streak of good fortune. I had some pretty amazing finds. Had a watcher in my game last night cursing how good the trove was to me lol. Apparently it's much shoddier than 5 decent artifacts and a bunch of usable materials (gdskin, trollskin, etc)

[Hopeless]

Hopeless:

BRANCH HOPPING.

Go to a branch, do a couple of levels, gets nasty? go to another branch. Gets nasty? get back to main dungeon. Repeat.

Juggling them makes much more sense than plowing straight down once several branches are available.

I added a thanks for this because it seems like very sound advice and is what I did with the Lair and Mines and ended up doing between Spider and Elves and Shoals. Though I think Slime may be too awful even with an Amulet of rCor+. Meanwhile I am playing some SRR: Dragonfall as a bit of lightweight Strategy RPG.

[wheals]

3) CLEARLY I didn't understand how the amulet worked. I assumed (wrongly) that it was working properly. As I said I didn't read up on how the thing worked which is clearly a big sin in Crawl.

  Code:

 Now linked to your health, your magic stops regenerating.

There are certainly some things where Crawl can be clearer, but this seems fairly simple.

[Hopeless]

3) CLEARLY I didn't understand how the amulet worked. I assumed (wrongly) that it was working properly. As I said I didn't read up on how the thing worked which is clearly a big sin in Crawl.

  Code:

 Now linked to your health, your magic stops regenerating.

There are certainly some things where Crawl can be clearer, but this seems fairly simple.

Right but doesn't explain that it needs to regenerate in order to be useful??

[crate]

"Should the reserves of magic be depleted, the spirit will fail to provide its protection until more power is available."

(directly from the amulet description)

I understand you might find this confusing if the very first time you put on a spirit amulet is with a DD, but I would pin the problem there on DD and not the amulet :p

[Magipi]

Why are you using short blades? You could have picked any weapon type (and still can), but you choose the weakest, and you are not even stabbing.

Also, the gong shield? Seriously??

[Hopeless]

Why are you using short blades? You could have picked any weapon type (and still can), but you choose the weakest, and you are not even stabbing.

Also, the gong shield? Seriously??

I chose based on what I found. Seriously!! As for the Gong Shield it was quite useful where I didn't worry too much about being rushed.

[mikee]

Crawl has some items that look like they're really good because of numbers they give your character but are essentially newbie traps. Hat of pondering and large shields are a couple of other examples.

[Hopeless]

Crawl has some items that look like they're really good because of numbers they give your character but are essentially newbie traps. Hat of pondering and large shields are a couple of other examples.

Heh so stay away from Large Shields because their base defense is terrible for their encumbrance? (I've never found a hat of pondering sounds ponderous.) Also newbie traps or no there must be SOME purpose for these items aside from leading hapless idiots to their demise...(I mean the characters.)

[mikee]

Heh so stay away from Large Shields because their base defense is terrible for their encumbrance? (I've never found a hat of pondering sounds ponderous.) Also newbie traps or no there must be SOME purpose for these items aside from leading hapless idiots to their demise...(I mean the characters.)

There are a lot of aspects to shields that I won't go into, but yes, one important part is that large shields severely weaken melee, casting, and ranged. This penalty goes down with shield skill, but for most characters, reducing it enough to be worthwhile requires SO MUCH xp that you've still severely weakened your character spending for it. This is even aside from the fact that you can't use a two-handed weapon with one.

Hat of pondering is an unrandart that can appear randomly or on gastronok; it gives some bonuses in exchange for slowing your movement.

There are some unusual cases in which these items are useful, but for the most part they're just not balanced very well against the power and usefulness of other items.

[Lasty]

Hopeless is clearly a relatively-new, unspoiled player looking for advice and encouragement, so I'm not sure why people are bothering to post snarky comments to him.

Hopeless: you were right to wield a +4 flaming short sword over the +2 unbranded quick blade. Quick blades are strong weapons if and only if you can stack enough +damage. Getting the weapon itself up to +7 or better is a good start, but having other items that boost damage (randarts with +Damage or rings of slaying) offer a big assistance as well. That said, the whole short blades class of weapons is, even when effective, the most tedious weapon class when used for non-stabbing melee, because they hit fast rather than hard, meaning you have to enter attack commands much more often to get the same as you would with fewer commands and a bigger weapon. Because they rely on fast attacks rather than powerful ones, they're also much more heavily penalized by being used in combination with a shield and insufficient Shields skill, since that adds a delay to each attack.

Overall, your character probably would be better off with a strong two-handed weapon rather than a shield and one-handed weapon, but if you would like to continue w/ shields, you'll want to look around for a stronger one-handed weapon. One way to do this would be to use all your Enchant Weapon II and III scrolls on that quick blade and look for a scroll of brand weapon and/or a ring of slaying; another would be to find a one-handed weapon with good base damage (demon anything, evening star, scimitar) and enchant/brand that; another would be to find anything one-handed with the {elec} brand.

I'm not sure if this came up before, but weapon base damage is multiplied by a value based on weapon and Fighting skill, but added damage (weapon enchantment or slaying/+dam items) is not, which means that weapons with high base damage can profit significantly from training weapon skill/Fighting, but weapons with low base damage rely on added damage and fast attack speed.

As for shields, it's probably best to pretend that large shields don't exist until you get more experience playing with lighter shields, and it's probably worth pretending that regular shields that don't have protection or resistance {rF+, rC+} don't exist until you get more experienced with a range of two-handed and one-handed weapons.

[Hopeless]

Hopeless is clearly a relatively-new, unspoiled player looking for advice and encouragement, so I'm not sure why people are bothering to post snarky comments to him.

Hopeless: you were right to wield a +4 flaming short sword over the +2 unbranded quick blade. Quick blades are strong weapons if and only if you can stack enough +damage. Getting the weapon itself up to +7 or better is a good start, but having other items that boost damage (randarts with +Damage or rings of slaying) offer a big assistance as well. That said, the whole short blades class of weapons is, even when effective, the most tedious weapon class when used for non-stabbing melee, because they hit fast rather than hard, meaning you have to enter attack commands much more often to get the same as you would with fewer commands and a bigger weapon. Because they rely on fast attacks rather than powerful ones, they're also much more heavily penalized by being used in combination with a shield and insufficient Shields skill, since that adds a delay to each attack.

Overall, your character probably would be better off with a strong two-handed weapon rather than a shield and one-handed weapon, but if you would like to continue w/ shields, you'll want to look around for a stronger one-handed weapon. One way to do this would be to use all your Enchant Weapon II and III scrolls on that quick blade and look for a scroll of brand weapon and/or a ring of slaying; another would be to find a one-handed weapon with good base damage (demon anything, evening star, scimitar) and enchant/brand that; another would be to find anything one-handed with the {elec} brand.

I'm not sure if this came up before, but weapon base damage is multiplied by a value based on weapon and Fighting skill, but added damage (weapon enchantment or slaying/+dam items) is not, which means that weapons with high base damage can profit significantly from training weapon skill/Fighting, but weapons with low base damage rely on added damage and fast attack speed.

As for shields, it's probably best to pretend that large shields don't exist until you get more experience playing with lighter shields, and it's probably worth pretending that regular shields that don't have protection or resistance {rF+, rC+} don't exist until you get more experienced with a range of two-handed and one-handed weapons.

Thanks for the understanding and kind words Lasty and Thanks very much for the advice. The learning curve in this game has a lot of bumps. Painful, sharp pointy bumps.

Currently the Quickblade is +6/+7 and "of Stabbing" (?of branding arrived in the Shoals) but since Notacluei came in and made such a fuss (he was downright nasty about it) in my game I went and fetched my +2/+10 randart Exec Axe (of Freezing) that earlier I ditched and raised up axes to about 18 so far. [Speaking of that incident and others I would really love to find that a "block user" function has been added to the Trunk/Webtiles interface. Having someone troll you while you play is pretty annoying even if you are determined to not respond to their jackery.]

Thanks very much for the advice, it seems pretty sound. Unfortunately for this character he may be near the end as he is down to 0 MP from restoring his Wand of Healing (and that is empty) otoh most of the branch levels have been cleared and well he is still alive. E3 is still too hard but I did get a bit more explored before I had to flee upstairs again. I cleared V1 and V2 but at high cost. Slime 1-2 were painful (but not to my equipment thanks to the Amulet of rCor+.) I got the Spider rune and expect I can get the Shoals rune soon. I think it is probably time to investigates the Depths (1) to see just how terrible it is.

[Hopeless]

  Code:

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.14-a0-3348-g998ff18 (webtiles) character file.

328268 Hopeless2 the Executioner (level 21, -4/195 HPs)
             Began as a Deep Dwarf Hunter on Mar 15, 2014.
             Was a Believer of Trog.
             Killed from afar by a golden dragon (41 damage)
             ... with a bolt of fire
             ... on Level 2 of the Depths on Mar 18, 2014.
             The game lasted 14:59:55 (63464 turns).

Hopeless2 the Executioner (Deep Dwarf Hunter)      Turns: 63464, Time: 14:59:55

HP  -4/195       AC 46     Str 23      XL: 21   Next:  9%
MP   0/0         EV  8     Int 20      God: Trog [**....]
Gold 1577        SH  0     Dex 18      Spells:  0 memorised, 20 levels left

rFire  . . .     SeeInvis +     a - +2,+10 executioner's axe of Wrongful Imprisonment {freeze, Int+3}
rCold  + + .     Clarity  .     L - +12 gold dragon armour "Schuruiti" {rPois rF+ rC+ Str+3}
rNeg   + . .     Conserve .     (no shield)
rPois  +         rCorr    +     H - +2 helmet {SInv}
rElec  +         rRot     .     z - +2 cloak
SustAb . .       Spirit   .     y - +1 pair of gloves of the Sailor {Int+4}
rMut   .         Warding  .     F - +2 pair of boots {run}
Saprov . . .     Stasis   .     c - amulet of resist corrosion
MR     +++++                    K - ring "Xuep" {Ice +Blink +Rage rElec}
                                k - ring of protection from magic

@: non-regenerating, quick, almost entirely resistant to hostile enchantments,
extremely unstealthy
A: damage resistance, recharge devices, low mp 1, mutation resistance 1, life
protection 1, sense surroundings 3, slow healing 3
a: Device Recharging, Burn Spellbooks, Berserk, Trog's Hand, Renounce Religion,
Evoke Blink, Evoke Berserk Rage
}: 1/15 runes: gossamer


You were on level 2 of the Depths.
You worshipped Trog.
Trog was pleased with you.
You were not hungry.

You visited 10 branches of the dungeon, and saw 48 of its levels.
You visited 1 bazaar.
You also visited: Trove and Bailey.

You collected 5391 gold pieces.
You spent 3814 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 a - the +2,+10 executioner's axe of Wrongful Imprisonment (weapon) {freeze, Int+3}
   (You acquired it on level 4 of the Orcish Mines)   
   
   It has been specially enchanted to freeze those struck by it, causing extra
   injury to most foes and up to double damage against particularly susceptible
   opponents. It can also slow down cold-blooded creatures.
   
   It affects your intelligence (+3).
 b - the +9,+4 sling of the Magi {flame, MR++}
   (You acquired it on level 8 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   It turns projectiles fired from it into bolts of flame.
   
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
 l - the +0,+0 Staff of Olgreb {rPois}
   (You found it in a treasure trove)   
   
   It protects you from poison.
 C - a +7,+7 quick blade of stabbing
Missiles
 D - 7 silver sling bullets
 P - 3 tomahawks of returning (quivered)
 Q - 80 stones
 S - 21 sling bullets of frost
Armour
 y - the +1 pair of gloves of the Sailor (worn) {Int+4}
   (You bought it in a shop in a bazaar)   
   
   It affects your intelligence (+4).
 z - a +2 cloak (worn)
 F - a +2 pair of boots of running (worn)
 H - a +2 helmet of see invisible (worn)
 L - the +12 gold dragon armour "Schuruiti" (worn) {rPois rF+ rC+ Str+3}
   (You found it in a treasure trove)   
   
   It affects your strength (+3).
   It protects you from fire.
   It protects you from cold.
   It protects you from poison.
Magical devices
 e - a wand of heal wounds (0)
 f - a wand of flame (18)
 m - a wand of slowing (12)
 p - a wand of digging (8)
 q - a wand of teleportation (0)
 s - a wand of enslavement (0)
 w - a wand of digging (6)
 x - a wand of paralysis (2)
 A - a wand of draining (1)
 E - a wand of frost (3)
 G - a wand of fireball (5)
 M - a wand of draining (2)
 N - a wand of frost (15)
 U - a wand of digging (17)
 V - a wand of disintegration (12)
 W - a wand of flame (17)
 X - a wand of frost (15)
Comestibles
 n - a bread ration
 o - 6 meat rations
 O - 25 strawberries
Scrolls
 j - 4 scrolls of remove curse
 r - 4 scrolls of teleportation
 Y - 2 scrolls of enchant armour
Jewellery
 c - an amulet of resist corrosion (around neck)
 d - the ring of Midsummer {Dex+2 Int+2 Stlth+}
   (You took it off a deep elf annihilator on level 2 of the Depths)   
   
   [ring of dexterity]
   It affects your dexterity (+2).
   It affects your intelligence (+2).
   It makes you much more stealthy.
 k - a ring of protection from magic (left hand)
 t - the ring of Eternal Harmony {+cTele Int+3 Acc+5}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Orcish Mines)   
   
   [ring of teleport control]
   It affects your intelligence (+3).
   It affects your accuracy with ranged weapons and melee attacks (+5).
 B - an uncursed amulet of stasis {unknown}
 J - an uncursed ring of flight
 K - the ring "Xuep" (right hand) {Ice +Blink +Rage rElec}
   (You bought it in a shop in a bazaar)   
   
   [ring of ice]
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It lets you blink.
   It lets you go berserk.
Potions
 g - a potion of invisibility
 h - a potion of restore abilities
 i - 3 potions of curing
 Z - a potion of flight


   Skills:
 - Level 13.5 Fighting
 - Level 10.3 Short Blades
 * Level 21.3 Axes
 - Level 15.4 Slings
 - Level 16.1 Armour
 - Level 14.5 Dodging
 - Level 1.4 Stealth
   Level 11.0 Shields
 - Level 12.8 Evocations


You had 20 spell levels left.
You didn't know any spells.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (1/1) D:4             Orc (4/4) D:10
    Elf (3/3) Orc:4          Lair (8/8) D:11         Shoals (5/5) Lair:6
 Spider (5/5) Lair:6        Slime (3/6) Lair:8       Vaults (2/5) D:13
  Crypt (0/5) Vaults:2     Depths (2/5) D:15       

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Sif Muna
Trog
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One
Beogh
Jiyva

Shops:
D:12 [   Orc:3 (!   Orc:4 %**:   Elf:2 (   Shoals:3 !   Depths:1 (

Portals:
Hell: Depths:1 Depths:2
Pandemonium: Depths:2

Annotations:
Shoals:5 Ilsuiw


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You are resistant to damage.
You can recharge devices by infusing magical energy.
You resist negative energy.
You passively map a large area around you.
You do not heal naturally.
Your magical capacity is low (-10% MP).
You are somewhat resistant to further mutation.


Message History

The golden dragon is moderately wounded.
The golden dragon completely misses you.
The golden dragon claws you but does no damage.
The golden dragon tramples you but does no damage.
You hit the golden dragon but do no damage.
The golden dragon is moderately wounded.
The golden dragon bites you but does no damage.
The golden dragon claws you but does no damage.
The golden dragon tramples you but does no damage.
You slice the golden dragon!! You freeze the golden dragon.
The golden dragon is heavily wounded.
The golden dragon bites you but does no damage.
The golden dragon claws you.
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
The golden dragon barely misses you.
You hit the golden dragon but do no damage.
The golden dragon is heavily wounded.
The golden dragon breathes fire at you.
The bolt of fire hits you!
You die...

.###....[##....#.###...####......
..##....##.....#∩####.###########
...#'..##..........##.#.#.#.#.#.#
....####...............♣...♣...♣.
#....##.......§#.#.####.#.#.#.#.#
#'))..########§..#.# #...♣...♣...
.##........§##§#.#.# ##.#.#.#.#.#
..##.......§§§§#.#.# #.♣...♣.[.♣)
...##.......##§#@#.# ##.#.#.#.#%.
....##########.D...# #...♣..)♣[.)
.....##........###.# ##.#.#.#.#.#
#.....##.......# #.# #.♣...♣...♣.
*#.?..,##......###(####.#.#.#.#.#
,*#..,,,##......(........♣...♣...
,***,,,,,##.....#######.#.#.#.#.#
,*,**,,,  ##....#    #.♣...♣...♣.
,*..#*,,,,##....#    ##.#.#.#.#.#


You could see a golden dragon.

Vanquished Creatures
  Dissolution (Slime:1)
  A golden dragon (Depths:2)
  A titan (Depths:2)
  A deep elf blademaster (Elf:2)
  6 acid blobs
  A deep elf master archer (Elf:3)
  2 sphinxes (Depths:1)
  3 liches (Depths:2)
  Rupert (Shoals:4)
  3 azure jellies
  A shadow dragon (Depths:2)
  A frost giant (Depths:2)
  A fire giant (Depths:2)
  5 vault wardens (Vaults:2)
  Maud (Lair:6)
  5 ghost moths
  5 deep elf sorcerers
  7 emperor scorpions
  Gastronok (Lair:3)
  3 deep elf demonologists
  6 stone giants
  3 dire elephants (Depths:2)
  9 deep elf annihilators
  An ettin (Depths:2)
  6 vampire knights
  4 deep elf death magi
  A green death (Depths:2)
  A merfolk javelineer (Shoals:4)
  3 death oozes
  5 merfolk impalers
  A great orb of eyes (Slime:2)
  4 vault guards (Vaults:2)
  5 yaktaur captains
  4 fire dragons
  3 sirens
  9 ironheart preservers
  3 hydras
  Fannar (Orc:3)
  A rakshasa (Depths:2)
  Harold (Orc:2)
  Josephine (D:11)
  A spriggan air mage (Depths:2)
  2 merfolk aquamancers
  Nessos (D:12)
  Erica (Lair:3)
  A ravenous feature mimic (Vaults:2)
  An ice dragon (Vaults:2)
  An alligator snapping turtle (Shoals:3)
  12 death yaks
  2 deep troll earth magi (Depths:2)
  2 satyrs
  5 ogre magi
  A vampire mage (D:15)
  6 spectral elves
  A deep troll shaman (Depths:2)
  A titan zombie (Depths:1)
  2 orc high priests
  A tengu warrior (D:15)
  5 centaur warriors
  3 spriggan berserkers (Depths:2)
  14 deep elf knights
  2 iron trolls
  A shock serpent (Elf:1)
  Erolcha (D:11)
  3 catoblepae (Lair:8)
  4 unseen horrors
  6 very ugly things
  A fire crab (Elf:1)
  A hell knight (Depths:2)
  A skeletal warrior (D:13)
  A wizard (D:15)
  An orb spider (shapeshifter) (Vaults:1)
  19 orb spiders
  4 deep trolls (Depths:2)
  10 deep elf summoners
  A death drake (Elf:1)
  7 sea snakes
  4 hill giants
  2 giant orange brains (Depths:2)
  A mana viper (Elf:1)
  18 harpies
  6 ironbrand convokers
  A wolf spider zombie (Vaults:2)
  10 red wasps
  8 deep elf conjurers
  A lindwurm (Elf:1)
  9 orc sorcerers
  Joseph (D:8)
  4 water nymphs
  4 necromancers
  41 wolf spiders
  2 sixfirhies (Depths:2)
  A sphinx zombie (Depths:1)
  5 griffons
  6 shining eyes
  5 cyclopes
  7 fauns
  2 small abominations
  5 octopodes
  20 orc knights
  An octopode (shapeshifter) (Vaults:2)
  A mermaid (shapeshifter) (D:15)
  4 mermaids
  26 elephants
  6 manticores
  Maurice (D:11)
  2 orange demons
  5 black mambas
  2 naga magi (D:15)
  A spectral hill giant (D:15)
  5 phantasmal warriors
  19 yaktaurs
  5 vault sentinels
  2 feature mimics
  Psyche (D:8)
  An item mimic (Orc:1)
  13 demonic crawlers
  2 eyes of devastation
  3 vapours (Elf:1)
  2 kobold demonologists (Vaults:2)
  11 spiny frogs
  2 freezing wraiths (Vaults:2)
  A tengu conjurer (D:15)
  3 fire drakes
  A giant firefly (Depths:2)
  8 komodo dragons
  A silent spectre (Vaults:2)
  13 deep elf priests
  An iron devil (Depths:1)
  4 wind drakes
  39 jumping spiders
  23 merfolk
  A polar bear (shapeshifter) (Elf:3)
  8 boggarts
  12 two-headed ogres
  Prince Ribbit (D:5)
  9 trolls
  2 ravens (D:15)
  26 brown oozes
  3 boulder beetles
  9 snapping turtles
  A jumping spider (shapeshifter) (Elf:2)
  47 slime creatures
  3 raiju (Elf:1)
  6 blink frogs
  A grizzly bear (shapeshifter) (Vaults:1)
  A spriggan (shapeshifter) (Vaults:1)
  6 basilisks
  A spriggan (Depths:2)
  14 trapdoor spiders
  24 deep elf magi
  6 flying skulls (D:15)
  A molten gargoyle (Elf:1)
  9 hippogriffs
  58 yaks
  15 tarantellas
  4 wyverns
  10 vampires
  Eustachio (D:7)
  35 redbacks
  2 fire elementals (Elf:1)
  A golden eye (Slime:2)
  11 water elementals
  2 elephant slugs
  18 sharks
  A shadow (Vaults:2)
  3 wraiths
  42 ugly things
  3 hill giant skeletons
  3 hungry ghosts
  24 deep elf fighters
  22 water moccasins
  The ghost of nomadicburrito the Skirmisher, an average GrFi (D:3)
  A mottled dragon (D:15)
  22 vampire mosquitoes
  9 swamp worms (D:10)
  A deep troll zombie (D:15)
  6 wargs
  2 spatial vortices (Elf:1)
  2 gargoyles
  A hydra simulacrum (D:11)
  A necrophage (D:8)
  9 wolves
  2 ogre zombies
  A water moccasin (shapeshifter) (Elf:2)
  A human skeleton (D:13)
  6 ice beasts
  A tengu skeleton (D:11)
  58 orc warriors
  27 spiders
  An ice dragon simulacrum (Depths:1)
  7 giant goldfish
  13 porcupines
  A black bear (D:7)
  2 manticore skeletons
  7 sky beasts
  28 ogres
  A boring beetle (shapeshifter) (Depths:2)
  10 centaurs
  2 vampire mosquito zombies (Vaults:2)
  The ghost of nomadicburrito the Covered, an average GrFi (D:5)
  A hill giant simulacrum (D:14)
  13 giant slugs
  5 big kobolds
  19 crocodiles
  2 brain worms (D:10)
  2 yaktaur zombies (Vaults:2)
  An ogre simulacrum (D:14)
  19 giant frogs
  A gnoll sergeant (D:8)
  An insubstantial wisp (Elf:1)
  9 scorpions
  6 eyes of draining
  A wyvern skeleton (D:8)
  A wight (D:11)
  2 yak skeletons (Orc:4)
  18 crimson imps
  A pulsating lump (Slime:2)
  12 electric eels
  10 goliath beetles
  20 hounds
  8 jellies
  3 centaur zombies
  2 lava snakes (Elf:1)
  35 orc priests
  38 orc wizards
  A quasit (D:12)
  An elf zombie (D:11)
  2 centaur skeletons
  2 iron imps (Depths:1)
  13 big fish
  2 giant frog skeletons
  A cyclops simulacrum (D:14)
  14 human zombies
  8 iguanas
  5 orange rats
  An elf skeleton (D:15)
  11 sheep
  12 worker ants
  A wolf simulacrum (Lair:2)
  2 polar bear simulacra (Lair:2)
  4 yak simulacra (Lair:2)
  An ogre skeleton (D:7)
  3 mummies
  A hound skeleton (D:11)
  A hound zombie (D:8)
  10 gnolls
  A big fish zombie (D:15)
  19 adders
  34 green rats
  6 shadow imps
  2 orc skeletons
  4 white imps
  6 giant mites
  12 worms
  3 ufetubi (Orc:4)
  12 orc zombies
  8 giant eyeballs
  8 giant geckos
  7 oozes
  278 orcs
  4 ball pythons
  2 bat zombies (D:5)
  A green rat skeleton (D:15)
  22 hobgoblins
  28 jackals
  29 kobolds
  An ooze (shapeshifter) (Vaults:1)
  26 bats
  8 giant cockroaches
  7 giant newts
  31 goblins
  A goblin skeleton (D:4)
  4 green rat simulacra (Lair:2)
  A hobgoblin skeleton (D:4)
  12 quokkas
  A quokka zombie (D:7)
  28 rats
  4 rat skeletons
  3 crawling corpses (Elf:3)
  6 fungi
  10 plants
2245 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills)
  An eldritch tentacle (Elf:1)
  A merfolk impaler (Shoals:4)
  2 orc high priests (Orc:4)
  An orc knight (Orc:4)
  A yaktaur (Shoals:3)
  A merfolk (Shoals:3)
  A soldier ant (D:13)
  A black bear (D:15)
  A big fish (D:15)
  An orc priest (Orc:1)
  An orc wizard (Orc:4)
  An orc zombie (Orc:4)
  2 orcs
  A hobgoblin (Orc:1)
  A kobold (D:13)
  7 rat skeletons (Orc:4)
24 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  An ice dragon (D:15)
  A ball lightning (Elf:1)
  A deep elf conjurer (Elf:1)
  A wizard (Vaults:2)
  A drowned soul (Shoals:3)
  A wolf spider (Spider:5)
  A deep elf mage (Elf:1)
  A two-headed ogre (Orc:4)
  A molten gargoyle (Elf:1)
  A yak (Lair:8)
  A deep elf fighter (Vaults:2)
  A neqoxec (Depths:2)
  4 ogres
  A human zombie (Vaults:2)
  A chimera (D:11)
  An ooze (Slime:1)
  A kobold (Vaults:2)
  326 eldritch tentacle segments (Elf:1)
  A fungus (Lair:8)
  4 plants
351 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 2620 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | Hopeless2, the Deep Dwarf Hunter, began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 16/16 MP: 1/1
     3 | D:1      | Noticed a giant goldfish
     3 | D:1      | Noticed a shark
   207 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 24/24 MP: 2/2
   322 | D:1      | Reached skill level 5 in Slings
  1009 | D:1      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 30/30 MP: 3/3
  1861 | D:3      | Noticed nomadicburrito's ghost (average GrFi)
  1946 | D:3      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 35/37 MP: 4/4
  1952 | D:3      | Reached skill level 6 in Slings
  1952 | D:3      | Reached skill level 1 in Armour
  2001 | D:3      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 34/43 MP: 5/5
  2218 | D:3      | Found an ancient bone altar of Kikubaaqudgha.
  2282 | D:3      | Reached skill level 1 in Fighting
  2569 | D:3      | Found a deep blue altar of Sif Muna.
  2885 | D:4      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  2890 | Temple   | Entered the Ecumenical Temple
  2987 | Temple   | Became a worshipper of Trog the Wrathful
  3284 | D:4      | Reached skill level 1 in Short Blades
  3291 | D:4      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 51/51 MP: 6/6
  3377 | D:4      | Found a sparkling altar of Nemelex Xobeh.
  3719 | D:4      | Got a polished short sword
  3720 | D:4      | Identified the +8,+4 short sword of the Volcano {flame, rC+} (You found it on level 4 of the Dungeon)
  3863 | D:3      | Killed nomadicburrito's ghost
  3863 | D:3      | Reached skill level 7 in Slings
  3936 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  3940 | D:5      | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 3 turns
  3974 | D:5      | HP: 2/55 [goliath beetle (15)]
  4007 | D:5      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 45/61 MP: 6/6
  4050 | D:5      | Noticed Prince Ribbit
  4097 | D:5      | Noticed nomadicburrito's ghost (average GrFi)
  4145 | D:5      | Killed nomadicburrito's ghost
  4248 | D:5      | Acquired Trog's first power
  4339 | D:5      | Killed Prince Ribbit
  4721 | D:5      | Found a shadowy altar of Dithmenos.
  5147 | D:6      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 68/72 MP: 6/6
  5323 | D:6      | Found an iron altar of Okawaru.
  5410 | D:6      | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
  5731 | D:6      | Acquired Trog's second power
  6084 | D:6      | Reached skill level 8 in Slings
  6189 | D:7      | Found a snail-covered altar of Cheibriados.
  6197 | D:7      | Noticed Eustachio
  6207 | D:7      | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
  6380 | D:7      | Killed Eustachio
  7009 | D:8      | Gained mutation: You passively map the area around you. [level up]
  7009 | D:8      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 77/82 MP: 7/7
  7162 | D:8      | Noticed Psyche
  7172 | D:8      | Killed Psyche
  7178 | D:8      | Reached skill level 9 in Slings
  7269 | D:8      | Noticed Joseph
  7280 | D:8      | Killed Joseph
  7280 | D:8      | Reached skill level 5 in Short Blades
  7297 | D:8      | HP: 2/86 [orc warrior/flail (11)]
  7306 | D:8      | Received a gift from Trog
  7373 | D:8      | Identified a +2 pair of boots of running (You found it on level 8 of the Dungeon)
  7579 | D:8      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 75/96 MP: 8/8
  8464 | D:9      | Received a gift from Trog
  8745 | D:10     | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
  9145 | D:10     | Reached skill level 10 in Slings
  9474 | D:10     | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
 10038 | D:11     | Reached XP level 11. HP: 52/106 MP: 7/7
 10186 | D:11     | Noticed Maurice
 10446 | D:11     | Noticed an octopode
 10488 | D:11     | Killed an octopode
 10545 | D:11     | Noticed an octopode
 10558 | D:11     | Killed an octopode
 10647 | D:11     | Killed Maurice
 10806 | D:11     | Found a staircase to the Lair.
 11012 | D:11     | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting
 11321 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts
 11835 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 11 in Slings
 12829 | Lair:2   | Acquired Trog's third power
 12932 | Lair:2   | Noticed a necromancer
 12941 | Lair:2   | Killed a necromancer
 12941 | Lair:2   | Reached XP level 12. HP: 69/118 MP: 0/5
 13549 | Lair:2   | Noticed a seven-headed hydra
 13583 | Lair:2   | Killed a five-headed hydra
 13993 | Lair:3   | Noticed Gastronok
 14049 | Lair:3   | Killed Gastronok
 14326 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 1 in Evocations
 14466 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 10 in Dodging
 14667 | Lair:3   | Noticed Erica
 14724 | Lair:3   | Killed Erica
 15426 | Lair:4   | Reached skill level 12 in Slings
 16433 | Lair:5   | Received a gift from Trog
 16805 | Lair:5   | Reached XP level 13. HP: 75/127 MP: 0/12
 17279 | Lair:5   | Received a gift from Trog
 17302 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 5 in Evocations
 17502 | Lair:5   | Upgraded the game from 0.14-a0-3300-g2e50dd5 to 0.14-a0-3318-gc75ed29
 17954 | Lair:6   | Found a staircase to the Shoals.
 17954 | Lair:6   | Noticed Maud
 17998 | Lair:6   | Killed Maud
 18505 | Lair:6   | Found a hole to the Spider Nest.
 18601 | Lair:6   | Received a gift from Trog
 18740 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 13 in Slings
 18776 | Lair:6   | Received a gift from Trog
 18934 | Lair:6   | Got a thick robe
 19011 | Lair:6   | Identified the cursed +1 robe "Odghioff" {Dex+1 Dam+6} (You found it on level 6 of the Lair of Beasts)
 19798 | Lair:7   | Reached skill level 5 in Armour
 20698 | Lair:7   | Received a gift from Trog
 21434 | Orc:1    | Entered Level 1 of the Orcish Mines
 21436 | Orc:1    | Gained mutation: You resist negative energy. [level up]
 21436 | Orc:1    | Reached XP level 14. HP: 138/138 MP: 0/17
 21474 | Orc:1    | Received a gift from Trog
 21698 | Orc:1    | Received a gift from Trog
 21811 | Orc:2    | Noticed Harold
 21833 | Orc:2    | Killed Harold
 21936 | Orc:2    | Found a flagged portal.
 21969 | Bailey   | Entered a bailey
 22121 | Bailey   | Received a gift from Trog
 22281 | Bailey   | Reached skill level 14 in Slings
 22556 | Orc:2    | Found Strudom's Jewellery Boutique.
 22562 | Orc:2    | Strudom's Jewellery Boutique was a mimic.
 22662 | Orc:2    | Received a gift from Trog
 23372 | Orc:3    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 23445 | Orc:3    | Found Omirghut's Antique Weapon Shop.
 23461 | Orc:3    | Noticed Fannar
 23490 | Orc:3    | Killed Fannar
 23558 | Orc:3    | Received a gift from Trog
 23695 | Orc:3    | Received a gift from Trog
 23876 | Orc:3    | Found Sma Turph's Distillery.
 23936 | Orc:3    | Bought 2 potions of confusion for 30 gold pieces
 23936 | Orc:3    | Bought a potion of brilliance for 37 gold pieces
 23936 | Orc:3    | Bought a potion of lignification for 30 gold pieces
 24212 | Orc:3    | Received a gift from Trog
 24601 | Orc:4    | Entered Level 4 of the Orcish Mines
 24617 | Orc:4    | Received a gift from Trog
 24731 | Orc:4    | Received a gift from Trog
 24732 | Orc:4    | Got a warped halberd {god gift}
 24843 | Orc:4    | Found a staircase to the Elven Halls.
 24959 | Orc:4    | Found a labyrinth entrance.
 24987 | Orc:4    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 25269 | Orc:4    | Received a gift from Trog
 25393 | Orc:4    | Identified the -1,+11 halberd "Skesus" {flame, rF-} (Trog gifted it to you on level 4 of the Orcish Mines)
 25596 | Orc:4    | Found Kheineid's Assorted Antiques.
 25686 | Orc:4    | Received a gift from Trog
 25799 | Orc:4    | Found Hootivvaca's Book Shop.
 25800 | Orc:4    | Found Awkeatt's Food Emporium.
 25801 | Orc:4    | Found Weje's General Store.
 25807 | Orc:4    | Bought a scroll of identify for 74 gold pieces
 25807 | Orc:4    | Bought a sedimented cyan potion for 33 gold pieces
 25812 | Orc:4    | Bought a scroll of identify for 26 gold pieces
 25843 | Orc:4    | Identified a scroll of acquirement
 25844 | Orc:4    | Got a warped executioner's axe
 25845 | Orc:4    | Identified the +2,+10 executioner's axe of Wrongful Imprisonment {freeze, Int+3} (You acquired it on level 4 of the Orcish Mines)
 25865 | Orc:4    | Bought the ring of Eternal Harmony {+cTele Int+3 Acc+5} for 959 gold pieces
 25942 | Orc:4    | Bought a scroll of enchant weapon II for 203 gold pieces
 26465 | Lair:8   | Entered Level 8 of the Lair of Beasts
 26656 | Lair:8   | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits.
 27515 | Lair:8   | Reached skill level 10 in Evocations
 27549 | Lair:8   | Received a gift from Trog
 27687 | Lair:8   | Received a gift from Trog
 27837 | Lair:8   | Got a warped sling
 27838 | Lair:8   | Identified the +9,+4 sling of the Magi {flame, MR++} (You acquired it on level 8 of the Lair of Beasts)
 28377 | D:11     | Reached XP level 15. HP: 124/146 MP: 0/20
 28731 | D:11     | Noticed Erolcha
 28737 | D:11     | Killed Erolcha
 28794 | D:11     | Noticed Josephine
 28804 | D:11     | Killed Josephine
 29375 | D:12     | Noticed Nessos
 29388 | D:12     | Killed Nessos
 29750 | D:12     | Found Kloepe Team's Antique Armour Emporium.
 29951 | D:13     | Reached skill level 10 in Armour
 30295 | D:13     | Found a gate to the Vaults.
 30488 | D:13     | Got a sparkling iron ring
 30489 | D:13     | Identified the ring of Dogma {Hunger rN+ SInv Stlth+} (You found it on level 13 of the Dungeon)
 31380 | D:14     | Received a gift from Trog
 32230 | D:14     | Received a gift from Trog
 32249 | D:14     | Reached skill level 15 in Slings
 32401 | D:15     | Entered Level 15 of the Dungeon
 32422 | D:15     | Found a flickering gateway to a bazaar.
 32476 | Bazaar   | Entered a bazaar
 32480 | Bazaar   | Found Ymisos' Armour Shoppe.
 32487 | Bazaar   | Bought the +1 pair of gloves of the Sailor {Int+4} for 224 gold pieces
 32503 | Bazaar   | Found Mnuopnum's Armour Emporium.
 32512 | Bazaar   | Found Wericso's Book Shoppe.
 32520 | Bazaar   | Found Riq Ostru's Jewellery Shop.
 32526 | Bazaar   | Bought an uncursed ring of see invisible for 120 gold pieces
 32526 | Bazaar   | Bought the ring "Xuep" {Ice +Blink +Rage rElec} for 396 gold pieces
 32526 | Bazaar   | Bought an uncursed ring of flight for 140 gold pieces
 32526 | Bazaar   | Bought an uncursed amulet of resist corrosion for 160 gold pieces
 33456 | D:15     | Found a basalt altar of Yredelemnul.
 33599 | D:15     | Got a jewelled halberd
 33600 | D:15     | Identified the +5,+4 halberd "Ewnigg" {flame, rN+ Int+2} (You took it off a vampire on level 15 of the Dungeon)
 34069 | D:15     | Found a staircase to the Depths.
 34300 | D:15     | Received a gift from Trog
 34662 | D:15     | Found a portal to a secret trove of treasure.
 34695 | Trove    | Entered a treasure trove
 34704 | Trove    | Got a blackened gold dragon armour
 34723 | Trove    | Got a pitted crossbow
 34754 | Trove    | Identified the +12 gold dragon armour "Schuruiti" {rPois rF+ rC+ Str+3} (You found it in a treasure trove)
 35268 | D:12     | Reached skill level 1 in Shields
 35498 | Elf:1    | Entered Level 1 of the Elven Halls
 35579 | Elf:1    | Received a gift from Trog
 35687 | Elf:1    | Reached XP level 16. HP: 144/157 MP: 0/20
 35958 | Elf:1    | Reached skill level 5 in Shields
 36107 | Elf:1    | Noticed an eldritch tentacle
 36318 | Elf:1    | Killed an eldritch tentacle
 36641 | Elf:1    | Received a gift from Trog
 36966 | Elf:1    | Received a gift from Trog
 37442 | Elf:2    | Received a gift from Trog
 37515 | Elf:2    | Found Zokoofoi's Antique Weapon Emporium.
 37539 | Elf:2    | Received a gift from Trog
 37632 | Elf:2    | Received a gift from Trog
 37656 | Elf:2    | Reached skill level 10 in Shields
 37712 | Elf:2    | Bought a quick blade for 435 gold pieces
 37712 | Elf:2    | Bought an ancient short sword for 232 gold pieces
 37713 | Elf:2    | Identified the cursed +3,+2 short sword "Phunaogg" {slice, +Blink rElec} (You bought it in a shop on level 2 of the Elven Halls)
 37756 | Orc:4    | Bought a scroll of remove curse for 39 gold pieces
 38394 | Elf:2    | Received a gift from Trog
 38805 | Elf:3    | Entered Level 3 of the Elven Halls
 38979 | Elf:3    | Received a gift from Trog
 39030 | Elf:3    | Noticed a deep elf blademaster
 39032 | Elf:3    | Noticed a deep elf blademaster
 39352 | Elf:3    | Reached skill level 10 in Short Blades
 39353 | Elf:3    | Noticed a deep elf master archer
 39406 | Elf:3    | Killed a deep elf master archer
 39430 | Elf:3    | Noticed a Shadow Fiend
 40122 | Spider:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Spider Nest
 40273 | Lair:6   | Reached XP level 17. HP: 121/163 MP: 0/18
 40365 | Lair:6   | Gained mutation: You are weak. (Str -2) [potion of mutation]
 40365 | Lair:6   | Gained mutation: You are partially covered in thin metallic scales (AC +2). [potion of mutation]
 40365 | Lair:6   | Gained mutation: Your magical capacity is low (-10% MP). [potion of mutation]
 40366 | Lair:6   | Lost mutation: You are weak. (Str -2) [potion of cure mutation]
 40366 | Lair:6   | Lost mutation: Your magical capacity is low (-10% MP). [potion of cure mutation]
 40366 | Lair:6   | Lost mutation: You are partially covered in thin metallic scales (AC +2). [potion of cure mutation]
 40470 | Shoals:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Shoals
 40500 | Shoals:1 | Found a frozen archway.
 40506 | Shoals:1 | the frozen archway was a mimic.
 40772 | Shoals:1 | Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon.
 42163 | Spider:1 | Upgraded the game from 0.14-a0-3318-gc75ed29 to 0.14-a0-3337-gf4615ed
 42986 | Spider:2 | Received a gift from Trog
 44712 | Spider:4 | Received a gift from Trog
 44742 | Spider:4 | Got a brightly glowing scale mail
 44762 | Spider:4 | Identified the cursed -4 scale mail of the Iron City of Dis {Dam+6} (You found it on level 4 of the Spider Nest)
 45231 | Spider:4 | Got a fine bone amulet
 45491 | Spider:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Spider Nest
 46112 | Spider:5 | Reached skill level 15 in Armour
 46676 | Spider:5 | Gained mutation: You passively map a large area around you. [level up]
 46676 | Spider:5 | Reached XP level 18. HP: 133/171 MP: 1/16
 46758 | Spider:4 | Reached skill level 16 in Armour
 47679 | Spider:5 | Reached skill level 1 in Axes
 47762 | Spider:5 | Got a gossamer rune of Zot
 48008 | Spider:5 | Received a gift from Trog
 48427 | Shoals:2 | Reached skill level 5 in Axes
 48925 | Shoals:3 | Found Qeme's Distillery.
 48927 | Shoals:3 | Bought a potion of curing for 26 gold pieces
 48927 | Shoals:3 | Bought a potion of curing for 26 gold pieces
 48927 | Shoals:3 | Bought a potion of curing for 26 gold pieces
 48927 | Shoals:3 | Bought 2 potions of curing for 52 gold pieces
 48927 | Shoals:3 | Bought a potion of curing for 26 gold pieces
 48927 | Shoals:3 | Bought a potion of flight for 39 gold pieces
 48927 | Shoals:3 | Bought a potion of beneficial mutation for 455 gold pieces
 48927 | Shoals:3 | Bought a potion of curing for 26 gold pieces
 48934 | Shoals:3 | Gained mutation: You are somewhat resistant to further mutation. [potion of beneficial mutation]
 48989 | Shoals:3 | Got a crude sling
 49055 | Shoals:3 | Identified the cursed +2,+0 sling "Wuvoawirch" {frost, rF- Str+1} (You found it on level 3 of the Shoals)
 49205 | Shoals:3 | Upgraded the game from 0.14-a0-3337-gf4615ed to 0.14-a0-3348-g998ff18
 49337 | Shoals:3 | Received a gift from Trog
 51054 | Shoals:4 | Reached skill level 10 in Axes
 51071 | Shoals:4 | Noticed Rupert
 51089 | Shoals:4 | Killed Rupert
 51555 | Shoals:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Shoals
 51587 | Shoals:5 | Noticed Ilsuiw
 52230 | Elf:2    | Killed a deep elf blademaster
 52889 | Vaults:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Vaults
 52982 | Vaults:1 | Reached XP level 19. HP: 98/180 MP: 7/7
 54201 | Vaults:1 | Received a gift from Trog
 55553 | Vaults:2 | Got a smoking silver amulet
 55888 | Vaults:2 | Reached skill level 15 in Axes
 55963 | Vaults:2 | Identified the amulet of Shiolam {Inacc Dex+3 Int+3} (You found it on level 2 of the Vaults)
 56785 | Vaults:2 | Found a glowing golden altar of the Shining One.
 56804 | Vaults:2 | Found a staircase to the Crypt.
 58096 | Slime:1  | Entered Level 1 of the Pits of Slime
 58181 | Slime:1  | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 4 turns
 58238 | Slime:1  | Reached skill level 17 in Axes
 58379 | Slime:2  | Noticed Dissolution
 58442 | Slime:1  | Killed Dissolution
 58506 | Slime:2  | Reached XP level 20. HP: 121/188 MP: 3/3
 58508 | Slime:2  | Gained mutation: Your magical capacity is low (-10% MP). [a shining eye]
 58582 | Slime:1  | Reached skill level 18 in Axes
 58810 | Slime:3  | Found a viscous altar of Jiyva.
 59121 | Slime:3  | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 3 turns
 59269 | Slime:3  | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 4 turns
 59972 | Depths:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Depths
 60110 | Depths:1 | Reached skill level 19 in Axes
 60244 | Depths:1 | Received a gift from Trog
 61047 | Depths:1 | Found Bluole's Weapon Emporium.
 61366 | Depths:1 | Found a glowing golden altar of the Shining One.
 61721 | Depths:1 | Found a gateway to Hell.
 62026 | Depths:2 | Reached skill level 20 in Axes
 62254 | Depths:2 | Found a one-way gate leading to the halls of Pandemonium.
 62503 | Depths:2 | Noticed a golden dragon
 62781 | Depths:2 | Noticed a golden dragon
 62798 | Depths:2 | Killed a golden dragon
 62817 | Depths:2 | Got a sparkling tin ring
 62940 | Depths:2 | Reached skill level 21 in Axes
 63169 | Depths:2 | Reached XP level 21. HP: 126/195 MP: 0/0
 63356 | Depths:2 | Identified the ring of Midsummer {Dex+2 Int+2 Stlth+} (You took it off a deep elf annihilator on level 2 of the Depths)
 63464 | Depths:2 | Killed from afar by a golden dragon


Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 | 19-21 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Short sword       |       |   122 |   215 |   972 |  1378 |   855 |       ||  3542
       Sling             |       |       |     3 |       |    10 |       |       ||    13
       Executioner's axe |       |       |       |       |       |   444 |  1189 ||  1633
 Fire: Sling             |    93 |    97 |   292 |   722 |  1929 |  2368 |   322 ||  5823
Throw: Stone             |       |       |       |       |     2 |     5 |       ||     7
       Tomahawk          |       |       |       |       |       |     8 |    18 ||    26
Invok: Trog's Hand       |       |       |    10 |    56 |    83 |   129 |   110 ||   388
       Berserk           |       |       |     2 |     4 |     7 |     8 |     2 ||    23
       Burn Spellbooks   |       |       |     1 |     2 |       |     6 |     2 ||    11
       Brothers in Arms  |       |       |       |       |     6 |     2 |       ||     8
 Abil: Device Recharging |       |     1 |     1 |     6 |     3 |    15 |     7 ||    33
       Evoke Blink       |       |       |       |       |       |    24 |     7 ||    31
       Evoke Teleport Co |       |       |       |       |       |    11 |       ||    11
Evoke: Wand              |     1 |    20 |    16 |    36 |    40 |    89 |    35 ||   237
       Box of beasts     |       |       |       |     2 |       |       |       ||     2
       Disc of storms    |       |       |       |       |       |     1 |       ||     1
  Use: Scroll            |     4 |     1 |    12 |    19 |    40 |    30 |    16 ||   122
       Potion            |       |       |     1 |     5 |     6 |    26 |     9 ||    47
 Stab: Confused          |       |     1 |       |       |       |       |       ||     1
       Distracted        |       |       |       |     1 |     2 |       |       ||     3
       Paralysed         |       |       |       |       |     2 |       |       ||     2
       Invisible         |       |       |       |       |     1 |       |       ||     1



And it ended on Depths 2 vs a Gold Dragon.

[Sandman25]

Ignore Dodging until your Armour/Fighting/Axes are 20+. Also note that DDBe is not easy, I would not recommend it to new players. You can take a look at my DDBe if you like.

[Hopeless]

Ignore Dodging until your Armour/Fighting/Axes are 20+. Also note that DDBe is not easy, I would not recommend it to new players. You can take a look at my DDBe if you like.

Yeah this was a DDHu probably even harder . I think I raised dodging because I had such a low EV I was trying to compensate for it a bit. And it did help slightly.

[Sandman25]

DD have damage shaving which has great synergy with high AC so as spell-less character you want to wear the heaviest armour you find and ignore EV. If you are lucky to find CPA or GDA, wear it immediately even if it means EV is negative

[Hopeless]

Gave a SpEn a whirl. Not a huge fan of spells in Crawl. They seem too finite and risky a resource and perhaps a bit too diverse since you need your main school + charms or transmutations etc (not singling those out just saying) and then spellcasting on top of that and in addition you need fighting/weapon of choice to some degree. And lets not forget dodging. Overall it seems rather a fun spell caster though since the Hibernation spell lets you stab victims instead of having to slog it out with them and the high speed of the spriggan lends itself nicely to blowpipe tactics. But I found myself being hungry with 1 potion of porridge and no food. And by hungry I mean Starving. Found a single choko which took the hunger to merely Very Hungry. So on top of being difficult, and finite it seems spell casting brings you nearer to death by starvation even with a race that "hardly needs to eat".

I did something dumb which entailed YASD so of course I'll be starting over yet again but I am not sure I want to even bother with spell casters anymore. Invariably I have had almost no success with them and those few characters that lived past level 10 were aided mostly by nonspell elements in the game. IE: All the spell caster and hybrid spell caster backgrounds seem to be another newbie trap.

[Mattchew]

Gave a SpEn a whirl. [...] Overall it seems rather a fun spell caster though since the Hibernation spell lets you stab victims instead of having to slog it out with them and the high speed of the spriggan lends itself nicely to blowpipe tactics.

My $0.02, play SpEns for fun and a change of pace. Don't expect to get your first win on a SpEn. You do have to pay attention to hunger on Sp spellcasters, more than on any other build. Very good players say SpEns are an easy win. I don't find them so--getting into late game I hit a wall. But they are fun.

If you want to try to win with a spellcaster I found GrEE easiest. For your first win I think some kind of melee build will still be easier.

[Hopeless]

Gave a SpEn a whirl. [...] Overall it seems rather a fun spell caster though since the Hibernation spell lets you stab victims instead of having to slog it out with them and the high speed of the spriggan lends itself nicely to blowpipe tactics.

My $0.02, play SpEns for fun and a change of pace. Don't expect to get your first win on a SpEn. You do have to pay attention to hunger on Sp spellcasters, more than on any other build. Very good players say SpEns are an easy win. I don't find them so--getting into late game I hit a wall. But they are fun.

If you want to try to win with a spellcaster I found GrEE easiest. For your first win I think some kind of melee build will still be easier.

I did find it fun. Nothing says "Weeee!" like stabbing an asleep ogre to death. It was just difficult when the going got rough.

[tedric]

All the spell caster and hybrid spell caster backgrounds seem to be another newbie trap.

I wouldn't go so far as to call them a newbie trap, but it is definitely true that the best way to learn Crawl, for most players, is to play melee-centered builds. It took me a very long time to even come around to a place where I was willing to put effort into understanding how magic worked -- time during which I was learning about all of the other basic elements of the game. When I finally did discover magic, melee characters suddenly seemed boring.

On the other hand, experimenting with a bunch of fragile spellcasters has taught me all sorts of ways to be more resourceful that have nothing to do with magic, and that has made melee builds start to feel more fun again. Lately I've been feeling the itch to finally figure out the necromantic spellset and gods, and I'm sure that will change my affinity for other kinds of characters yet again.

Thus swings the pendulum of Crawl...

[Hopeless]

All the spell caster and hybrid spell caster backgrounds seem to be another newbie trap.

I wouldn't go so far as to call them a newbie trap, but it is definitely true that the best way to learn Crawl, for most players, is to play melee-centered builds. It took me a very long time to even come around to a place where I was willing to put effort into understanding how magic worked -- time during which I was learning about all of the other basic elements of the game. When I finally did discover magic, melee characters suddenly seemed boring.

On the other hand, experimenting with a bunch of fragile spellcasters has taught me all sorts of ways to be more resourceful that have nothing to do with magic, and that has made melee builds start to feel more fun again. Lately I've been feeling the itch to finally figure out the necromantic spellset and gods, and I'm sure that will change my affinity for other kinds of characters yet again.

Thus swings the pendulum of Crawl...

Well I am in the odd position of having lots of pre knowledge that is dead wrong (or just wrong enough to cause headaches). (having experienced many other roguelikes and a somewhat faulty memory contribute here) and then also I have deliberately avoided immersing myself in the spoiler-rich (and sometimes questionable) side sources, mainly because I learn best by doing (though looking up something new in the wiki does help if only for the concepts). And apparently there is so much to do wrong in crawl that I have done it wrong not just dozens but hundreds of times.

And I get to the point with the game that I feel like I need to change things up without even coming close to winning so I try other things. (SpEn) being one that was totally new since I never tried either the race or background (not a huge fan of the idea behind it but it plays far better than I expected.) But it seems that spell/magic management is very advanced in terms of learning/skills.

It also seems that if you MUST have spells to help you then you can't rely on them because of the factors I mentioned. You must rely mostly on the physical side of the game. (And this is not new to roguelikes but a flaw/virtue in common with them I think, depending on how you view the harshness factor in roguelike gaming. Purists probably feel it is far too easy once you have the power-gamer techniques down. Aficionados probably like it just as it is.)

Anyway, the pre-knowledge, I am getting rid of because I recognize bad intel when I encounter it (eventually after doing the same stupid thing lots of times.) Which in some ways makes me worse than a total newb to roguelikes because of preconceptions, and misunderstandings over terms. The terms are a language in and of themselves and more involved than any other similar game I have come across. Just knowing what SpEn means is an inside thing (though admittedly not very )

I like that there are tons of options for how to approach the beginning choices. Even if the nuances escape me often enough.

I should reiterate I really appreciate the time answering and suggesting players have spent on this thread. I hope others come along with similar problems to mine and find some (or most even) helpful. Even the snark is informative in a way. (Though perhaps not so much whilst playing, on the webtiles.)

[crate]

Calling book backgrounds (the "mage" backgrounds specifically) "a newbie trap" is about as far as you can get from the truth. Most of them are straightforwardly powerful early on, and in fact are generally significantly stronger than the "warrior" backgrounds on d:1.

The "warrior-mage" backgrounds are less friendly to new players either by being a bit unclear how to play (tm, AM, possibly En) or by just being not very good (Sk, Wr) though.

[Hopeless]

Calling book backgrounds (the "mage" backgrounds specifically) "a newbie trap" is about as far as you can get from the truth. Most of them are straightforwardly powerful early on, and in fact are generally significantly stronger than the "warrior" backgrounds on d:1.

The "warrior-mage" backgrounds are less friendly to new players either by being a bit unclear how to play (tm, AM, possibly En) or by just being not very good (Sk, Wr) though.

I think we have different definitions of the truth. As a newbish player I find book backgrounds as you call them to be infinitely more difficult than those that start with better hp and armor and skills in physical combat. I am not saying that you can't play them as a new player and do great but I found them much much harder. Between the % to fail, the hunger cost, the noise opportunity cost and the relative useful/uselessness of varying spells in each book they are a tougher background start than Melee and I for one found them too difficult to bother with despite loving spell casters more than other types in RPGs.

I appreciate the sentiment that they have great power but that power is in their potential not in the actual easiness of play. Hence "newbie trap."

[crate]

And there are other players who are new to crawl and think the exact opposite, that the book backgrounds are much easier.

I was being careful to avoid using the word "easy" in my post above.

[Lasty]

I think Hopeless is right that book backgrounds have a lot more information associated with them, and crawl is right that overall the book backgrounds are more powerful, though leveraging that power may not be easy without some spoilers/experience.

Regarding spriggans specifically, they have a very different food game that can be challenging for newer players to manage. For most purposes, they hunger very, very little, and they get a large amount of nutrition from most of the food they can eat. However, certain activities burn a lot of nutrition:
* Spellcasting can burn a lot of nutrition, increasing with the level of the spell and decreasing with your intelligence stat and Spellcasting skill. You can check the hunger cost for your spells by pressing z and then pressing !. Spriggans have good intelligence and a great Spellcasting aptitude, so it's not hard to get your level 2 and 3 spells hungerless, meaning that you can freely cast them without inducing any hunger. For most races, spell hunger is a minor issue because chunks are plentiful, but for spriggans it can be worth keeping an eye on.
* Abilities accessed from the (a) menu often burn nutrition; these abilities list "food" as a cost.
* Being hasted or invisible or regenerating increases the amount of nutrition you burn per turn, so if you spend a lot of time in these states, you may notice that increased hunger cost. On the other hand, most of these states offset other hunger costs such as resting off damage, so usually this isn't a big factor.

It's true that backgrounds that start with books often want to learn some of the skills you learn as a non-book background as well as some magic skills, but that's not as bad as it sounds. The experience you put into magic skills takes a lot of pressure off of weapon skills, and often for a fairly modest investment. For example, as an ice elementalist, you usually need no more than about 8 Ice skill to get Freeze up to max spellpower, at which point it becomes a reasonable replacement for melee until about the end of Lair. Book backgrounds tend to have their XP spread out more, but in exchange get significantly more options for how to handle any given situation.

Of course there are those who will advocate for only pumping your magical skills and perhaps some Dodging, but that tends to be a little more of a glass cannon, which, in crawl, means likely to die when things inevitably go bad.

[moocowmoocow]

Ironically I think pure fighter is more proper to call "newbie trap" than caster. The sooner you start learning the relative power of all the spells, the better. Both so you can use them yourself, but also to gauge how dangerous they are when a monster possesses them. For example, venom bolt and poison arrow may appear little different at first glance. Only by using them a lot yourself will you get a feel for the differences in damage. Familiarizing yourself with all the spells level 6 and below is pretty important I think.

[zardo]

And there are other players who are new to crawl and think the exact opposite, that the book backgrounds are much easier.

I was being careful to avoid using the word "easy" in my post above.

This right here. I'm long accustomed to playing fragile magic-based characters in RPGs so I first won with DEFE and found SpEn the first thing I could consistently get to the late game/get multiple runes with. All depends on you. Some starts are *actually* not good but they don't really get recommended.

[KoboldLord]

Ironically I think pure fighter is more proper to call "newbie trap" than caster. The sooner you start learning the relative power of all the spells, the better. Both so you can use them yourself, but also to gauge how dangerous they are when a monster possesses them. For example, venom bolt and poison arrow may appear little different at first glance. Only by using them a lot yourself will you get a feel for the differences in damage. Familiarizing yourself with all the spells level 6 and below is pretty important I think.

Monster spells are only tangentially related to player spells. For one thing, monsters don't care about silly things like damage caps; Throw Flame from a monster with high hit dice will do a lot more damage than you can do with that spell, ever. Players also care a whole lot more about dealing with multiple targets than monsters usually do. Monsters frequently have to fight completely unfair opponents that have sick amounts of AC and EV, whereas the player's foes are almost always carefully designed.

[Hopeless]

I'm not claiming I haven't been playing awfully tonight but this is an example of my luck:

" Mangled by an orc
... wielding a +1,+2 short sword of electrocution
(20 damage)
... on Level 3 of the Dungeon."

Last character, 48 hp, in one hit somehow went to -7.

Just an example of how its gone all night long. Before that ran from 4! uniques on D4 only to die to an Ogre I couldn't run from.

At least this one it wasn't one of my non-orcs dying to a priest's smiting on D3.

[Sprucery]

On the other hand, you were extremely lucky to find a short sword of elec on D:3 :) Just the method of finding was unfortunate...

[Lasty]

In the early dungeon, it's best to assume that all glowing weapons in a monster's hands are elec/distortion, e.g. instant death, and play accordingly. If you can't kill them without getting into melee range, just run.

[tedric]

In the early dungeon, it's best to assume that all glowing weapons in a monster's hands are elec/distortion, e.g. instant death, and play accordingly. If you can't kill them without getting into melee range, just run.

This sounds a wee bit paranoid since those weapons are pretty rare (outside of uniques like Yiuf, Psyche, etc. who are guaranteed to have dangerous brands); it's far more likely those early glowing weapons are plain enchanted (often negatively), cursed, protection, even flame/freeze which are not terribly dangerous on daggers, short swords, maces and the like.

I do agree it's better to kill an enemy with a glowing weapon from range when you can, though, just in case. In fact, weapons aside, in the early dungeon it is better to kill most enemies from range.

[Lasty]

Paranoid, yes. Most of the time the weapon will not be one of the supremely dangerous brands. However, if it is, you will most likely find out by dying to it. As such, the only way to avoid risking instant death from each glowing weapon is to avoid getting into melee range with those monsters during the part of the game where your health is low enough that you're likely to be killed by a single attack from those weapons.

Arguably you should always do this because any glowing weapon could one-hit banish you through distortion, but the odds of any given weapon both being distortion and banishing you on your first hit are significantly lower than the odds of the weapon being {venom or elec or distortion} and inflicting lethal damage if your health pool is small.

[Hopeless]

To be clear I had 0 turns to back away or run. Rounded a corner and there they were. I do agree with Lasty that better paranoid than dead. However I didn't really have an effective ranged answer to this guy anyway. And I often don't. Darts/Stones which are the commonly found ranged item don't do much, or randomly do great damage but then don't also randomly. And honestly who expects the inquisition?? Especially when I expected to mow through these guys. Orcs vs a Lava Orc at 48 hp are typically not dangerous. (Unless they have a rare weapon.) But the complaint was about my run of RNG hate, not about how stupid I was playing. Clearly this situation came about mainly because I rounded a corner instead being super cautious and taking +400 turns to uncover the fog of war. Because I think I had about 10 LOs and Grs last night all die to similarly bad luck (or it seemed like 10).

In fact since my DDHu died a few nights ago I haven't been able to get a character off the ground. Maybe I am just degenerating into a worse player over time.

[tedric]

Slings are pretty common and are often carried by goblins from the very start of the game. I think they give a slight boost to accuracy (maybe damage too?) for stones compared to throwing. And they do even better damage when you find some bullets.

Darts are pretty useless in my experience. Javelins of course are rare, heavy, and amazing.

[Hopeless]

Slings are pretty common and are often carried by goblins from the very start of the game. I think they give a slight boost to accuracy (maybe damage too?) for stones compared to throwing. And they do even better damage when you find some bullets.

Darts are pretty useless in my experience. Javelins of course are rare, heavy, and amazing.

That was in fact the premise behind my DDHu run. Easy to use/find missiles (sling + bullets or stones) Even so I found sling stones to be a fairly bad ammo even with a fire branding sling. And special branded bullets disappeared more often than not. The good thing is there are plenty of stone piles around. The bad is: After the early game they aren't sufficient. But I agree, if I can find a sling early on, the early game becomes a little easier.

[mikee]

I say newbie trap one time and now everyone wants to say it. =P

[Hopeless]

I say newbie trap one time and now everyone wants to say it. =P

Heh, trendsetter. It's tough job. Glad you volunteered. Seriously though, the term seems apt for lots of things in this kind of game. Perhaps it's a bit too vague but I think it is mainly correctly applied here. Of course being a newb may be coloring my opinion on the subject.

[Lasty]

I'm surprised that you found sling bullets in a flaming sling to be ineffective. In my experience, even an unbranded +0/+0 sling w/ bullets does a good job of softening up dangerous targets (adders, worker ants, ogres, phantoms) and pretty much wipe out goblins/hobgoblins with glowing weapons. It won't necessarily kill the tougher targets outright, but it'll often get their health down to a manageable range before you go toe to toe.

Edit: I mean w/o getting any levels of Slings. If you improve Slings skill, see Tedronai's post below mine.

[Tedronai]

You can take out every enemy in a typical 3-rune game by just using slings. It's actually ridiculous how powerful they are once you have a steady supply of ammunition.