Merfolk and armour

[Greyr]

Is it worth it? I've had success with merfolk in the past, however I've found their aptitudes to always leave me a tad uncertain about what to do next. IE is this enough dodging? I've found some decent armour, will it be worth diverting all my xp for the next century to make it viable (viable=spells online, negation of most melee penalty)? In the context of a three runer, is my xp better used somewhere else? Anyway, I'd like to know what better players than I have to say about this. Thanks!

[mopl]

All depends on the kind of armour you're talking about. Btw, a dump could help giving advice...
Switching to plate armour is probably a bad idea if you want to cast spells (I mean mid-high level damaging spells... Repel missile is OK...)
But a dragon armour or a (elf) ring mail is doable.

Again, post a dump if you want precise advice

[TheDefiniteArticle]

I've found some decent armour, will it be worth diverting all my xp for the next century to make it viable (viable=spells online, negation of most melee penalty)?

This is not at all the way to think about armour training. Armour skill reduces armour penalties to (45-Armour skill/45). So having 15 Armour skill will reduce the penalty to 2/3's of what it would be with 0 Armour skill. Even 27 skill only reduces the penalty by a bit over half. And if you want to cast while wearing armour, training the actual spell schools involved will get your spells online much faster than the small penalty reductions from Armour skill (and will additionally give you higher spellpower).

In short, if you're not comfortable wearing a piece of armour with 0 Armour skill, don't wear it. The primary reason to train Armour skill is that it multiplies the base AC of your armour. Penalty reduction is a fringe benefit.

Merfolk have outrageous apts. You can wear heavy armour on merfolk, but you are almost always better off sticking to ring mail or lighter and getting as much dodging skill as you need/want.

[Greyr]

I've found some decent armour, will it be worth diverting all my xp for the next century to make it viable (viable=spells online, negation of most melee penalty)?

Merfolk have outrageous apts. You can wear heavy armour on merfolk, but you are almost always better off sticking to ring mail or lighter and getting as much dodging skill as you need/want.

This was my train of thought as well. But I suppose I was looking for verification that this was the smart move.

[Lasty]

My rule of thumb is that armor is a very good skill worth getting to a decent level if you're wearing armor with base AC > 4, no matter how bad your aptitudes are. More AC is good, and a small investment of XP in Armour will get you more of it. For example, if you're wearing steam dragon armour and at least three other armour slots (not including hats), 11 levels of Armour skill will get you +4 AC. Given how good having +4 AC is and how little XP it takes to get a skill to 11, that's a decent investment. If you're wearing anything heavier than that or more peripherals, you'll get more AC even faster.

[and into]

The only qualification I'd add to Lasty's post is one of prioritization. With +3 aptitude in dodging, you want to get that up first when it comes to training for defense. 11 skill levels in armor skill with -3 aptitude is a non-trivial investment in early game, but by the time you are done with Lair and maybe Orc, you should already have a lot invested in dodging and, even with aptitude differences, the cost of getting one or two more EV could net you three or four points of AC if invested in armor skill; at that point armor skill obviously becomes worthwhile (assuming you aren't wearing an animal skin and cap and nothing else, or something).

I'll usually train some armor skill eventually, even with just leather armor, assuming I have most of my other armor slots filled.

If you are worried about spell casting down the line, toss a few extra points in strength; you'll still have to train the relevant spell schools a bit higher than you otherwise would but it shouldn't be too bad so long as you don't wear very heavy armor. Elven armor gives less spell casting penalty; I'd say an elven scale with a good ego like MR is generally better than mottled for anyone with good strength who is not doing Unarmed Combat, especially when you aren't swimming in scrolls of enchant armor. (Scale will pretty commonly generate with +1 to +3 enchantment on it already.) But those aren't common. Otherwise mottled or swamp dragon armor is very good for casting spells and not having crappy AC, though the latter will hurt spell casting more if you have a very low strength. Until then using a +2 or +3 leather armor is good, and those are really quite common finds amongst the hordes of orc packs you fight. Even better if you get one with MR or something.

[Klown]

After offense and dodging, I personally prefer stealth for lightly armored merfolk.

[Tedronai]

Apparently minmay thinks that Merfolk and Gold Dragon Armour are a great combination

[duvessa]

only with trog

[tompliss]

With +3 aptitude in dodging, you want to get that up first when it comes to training for defense. 11 skill levels in armor skill with -3 aptitude is a non-trivial investment in early game

Just for perspective, 11 levels of -3 armor is the same amount of XP as 17.3 levels of +3 dodging.
If you're already at 18 dodging, getting 11 takes the same XP as getting dodging to 23. It is twice the levels.
I won't say you should stop training dodging at a specific number, but, even with the apt bonuses/maluses, the increasing XP required for each skill level means that at one point, putting XP in armor is better.

[and into]

With +3 aptitude in dodging, you want to get that up first when it comes to training for defense. 11 skill levels in armor skill with -3 aptitude is a non-trivial investment in early game

Just for perspective, 11 levels of -3 armor is the same amount of XP as 17.3 levels of +3 dodging.
If you're already at 18 dodging, getting 11 takes the same XP as getting dodging to 23. It is twice the levels.
I won't say you should stop training dodging at a specific number, but, even with the apt bonuses/maluses, the increasing XP required for each skill level means that at one point, putting XP in armor is better.

Yes, of course. But that's why when you do have very unequal skill aptitudes (like Merfolk) it is better to put your best foot forward, *first*, and then fill in other areas when the experience-per-enemy average is a bit higher. I wasn't saying it is an either-or; I was making a, "which first?" point. That's assuming all is equal, of course. If you find some awesome heavy armour early on with a non-casting background, that will be a strong factor in one's choice and could easily overrule other considerations.