Mutations -- awesome? Lame?

[njvack]

With my current character (a level 19 SpBe), I quaff-ID'd potions of mutation a long time ago, and got shoutitis and some scales. Since then, I've been drinking every potion of mutation I come across, in the hope that it'll make things better.

Now I have shoutitis 2, deterioration 1, berserkitis 1, and teleportitis 1, in addition to a few layers of scales and strong-but-stuff muscles. This is not really an improvement.

My take is, at this point, screw it -- there are a couple decks of changes laying around I guess I'll hit up, because why not? If I were a spellcaster, I'd learn fulsome distillation and distill all the ugly things I could find, but I think Trog would be angry. And as a spriggan, I can't even eat the chunks.

In general, what's up with the mutation game? I don't have a very good feel for whether mutations are generally neat, or to be avoided.

[TwilightPhoenix]

That set you have sounds pretty bad. Clarity will block beserkitis, stasis will block teleportitis, teleport control will let you abuse teleportitis (and let you cancel the port), and sustain abilities will block deterioration, though the first level of the mutation isn't very bad.

Some mutations rock and some suck. Most mutation sources you can control when you use them only give random mutations, aka good or bad. A lot of the ones you can't control, such as enemies using polymorph other, usually give bad mutations. Legendary Helix cards usually give good mutations and Ornate ones are fairly likely to as well. Potions of Gain Dex/Str/Int are always a good mutation. Jiyva grants random mutations and lets you cure your bad ones. Xom gives you good, bad, or random ones depending on mood. And Zin will get rid of all of them once per game.

In other words, mutations will generally be somewhat random. Pursuing random mutations is all luck and knowing when to stop. Sometimes you'll get a set like yours, other times you'll get something awesome like teleport control, blinking, resist electric, resist poison, and extra health.

[Zicher]

If you want to play it safe, you'd better avoid mutations. Sure, you may gain regeneration or teleport control, but OTOH teleportitis or berserkitis, which can be really really crippling. This doesn't prevent many players from playing the mutation roulettem,mostly with Alter Self.

If you want fun times with mutations, play a demonspawn. Their mutations are helpful in nearly any case.

Edit: Oh TwilightPhoenix was a bit faster

[mrbobbyg]

I <3 mutation roulette.

If you can distill that is.

I've run this experiment a lot, and I find that if you have 40 potions of mutation, you will almost always get a good set before you run through them.

[Eldritch Enquirer]

If you're "clean" early in the game and have access to a few basic sources of random mutation like carrying a couple of Mutation Potions and/or just 4 chunks of mutated flesh from a Sky Beast or a Shapeshifter with a Gourmand Amulet or Carnivore, it is wise to try them if you have a Cure Mutation potion with you just in case you end up with a horrendous combination.

Taking your chances for a few good mutations early with a safety belt on could have you end up with terrifically useful stuff to relieve you in the early-mid parts of your game.

[njvack]

Thanks, all. I've got a ring with cTele and another with sustain, so I'm not teleporting randomly or decaying away, which is nice. I've also got Punk and a nice stash of +8 steel sling bullets, so I can actually deal a lot of damage without putting myself at risk for zerking.

My Helix cards were eager to remove and re-gift my strong/stiff muscles. Sigh.

[galehar]

I <3 mutation roulette.

If you can distill that is.

I've run this experiment a lot, and I find that if you have 40 potions of mutation, you will almost always get a good set before you run through them.

Enjoy it while it lasts. With the removal of alter self, there's plan to remove it too. We'll make distilled mutation potions unstable.

[JeffQyzt]

I <3 mutation roulette.

If you can distill that is.

I've run this experiment a lot, and I find that if you have 40 potions of mutation, you will almost always get a good set before you run through them.

Enjoy it while it lasts. With the removal of alter self, there's plan to remove it too. We'll make distilled mutation potions unstable.

That rather makes the whole mutation mini-game rather pointless, and removes a source of much enjoyment.

[FlyingPants]

mandatory jivya conversion in lategame.

[sigfried von murdock]

- I had a losing streak of 7 bad mutations in a row, 4 sky beast meat, 1 potion, turned my character borderline retarded.

Other times I have gotten a mix set, or even about 4-5 passive good mutations, +AC resistence, extra strength/dex, increased stealth.

Berserkitis can be a game breaker, just go ahead and flush your character right down the toilet. If you are a very hungry race, or restricted in appetite a couple bad placed random berserk will put you sprint to gobble up everything, level one isn't so bad, but even at level one I have had berserk fits every 100-200 turns before and it starves you and slows you at the worst times.

+7 AC iridescent scales = win
So does slow metabolism and regeneration together <3

Carnivore/gourmand spriggans are ridiculous.


Edit: 1:14 PM

Playing right now, my spriggan zerker just id'd a potion of mutation by consumption, I got breath flames 1, clarity, and -10% Mp. Sounds like a sweet deal as far as I care.

[mrbobbyg]

I <3 mutation roulette.

If you can distill that is.

I've run this experiment a lot, and I find that if you have 40 potions of mutation, you will almost always get a good set before you run through them.

Enjoy it while it lasts. With the removal of alter self, there's plan to remove it too. We'll make distilled mutation potions unstable.

That rather makes the whole mutation mini-game rather pointless, and removes a source of much enjoyment.

Agreed. Why take out something that is so much fun?

[Jk]

Here's my latest character's mutation set, so I'm clearly on the side of awesome:

  Code:

A: antennae 3, claws 3, hooves 3, carnivore 1, cold resistance 1, deformed body 1, demonic
guardian 3, deterioration 2, magic resistance 3, +10% hp, slow metabolism 1, spit poison 1, 60%
torment resistance, AC +4, SH +4, Str -3, Int +1, Dex +1


[XuaXua]

Here's my latest character's mutation set, so I'm clearly on the side of awesome:

  Code:

A: antennae 3, claws 3, hooves 3, carnivore 1, cold resistance 1, deformed body 1, demonic
guardian 3, deterioration 2, magic resistance 3, +10% hp, slow metabolism 1, spit poison 1, 60%
torment resistance, AC +4, SH +4, Str -3, Int +1, Dex +1


Depends on how bad deterioration 2 and your strength -3 affect you. I had a low int Spriggan with -4 int super armor and deterioration really messed with me.

[XuaXua]

I wouldn't mind seeing a rare Potion of Strong Mutation, which might allow one to access/acquire Demonspawn and racial mutations.

[TwilightPhoenix]

Carnivore/gourmand spriggans are ridiculous.

Spriggans have racial Herbivore 3 and therefore can never be carnivore, even with an Amulet of Gourmand. If you got around that, it's a bug.

[njvack]

Berserkitis can be a game breaker, just go ahead and flush your character right down the toilet.

I was actually never able to cure it, but went on to win the character. You just can't melee anything... and most(?) species have some way to reskill for pure non-melee. An amulet of stasis or similar will also prevent its effects.

It is kind of a pity how game-changing it is, though -- berserkitis 1 may as well be berserkitis infinity. Really means "melee is super risky until you find a source of stasis or cure this mutation." It'd be neat if there were other ways to mitigate it...

[seth]

You don't have to cure it, but if you manage to get the Clarity mutation (which I tend to get pretty often paired with Berserkitis), you won't Berserk.

[vintermann]

mandatory jivya conversion in lategame.

I don't like Jiyva. Before him (it?), your best chance at good (ordinary) mutations was Xom, and that only through serious patience and skill. It was almosy the only reason someone would play Xom except for fun (the other being gifts, but that was already more accessible through other gods).

Of course, Zin's one-time mutation removal power became even more of a joke with Jivya.

I understand the motivation for the removal of the Fulsome distillation mutation roulette thing... but if that is nerfed, and Alter self removed, I hope the devs compensate by making "bad" mutation attacks less severe (maybe only a 65 or even 60% chance of bad mutation from an enemy polymorph attack, rather than the 80 it is today). It's always awesome to have good mutations, and it's super awesome when that neqoxec accidentally gives you carnivore... It keep the experience of having good mutations open, although not reliably.

[vintermann]

Also, Abyss is problematic since you can farm it for mutation and cure mutation...this is a really annoying but low-risk way to get a good mutation set, so I hope it dies.

What, the entire Abyss?

Has anyone actually done this, by the way? It's rather low on my list of things to try in order to get good mutation sets. The chances of finding a potion of cure mutation in the abyss is probably a lot lower than finding the Abyssal rune...

[vintermann]

Not just because it's a huge pain to do, also because by the time I've run into one cure mutation potion, I've probably run into more than one Ancient Lich/Daeva/Draconian Annihilator/Other nasty abyss denizen. I find that even for a long time when I can survive in the Abyss, it eats consumables faster than I can replace them. I'm not sure it's safer to farm than Pan in the long run.

[XuaXua]

You don't have to cure it, but if you manage to get the Clarity mutation (which I tend to get pretty often paired with Berserkitis), you won't Berserk.

I had this situation for a while, but didn't realize it since I received Clarity first, then berserkitis. Thought it was a bug.

I eventually cured my clarity.