The Tavern

Hello again, thanks so much for the all the advice that has made my dungeon crawling more pleasant.
I am still trying for my first win as an Ogre Berserker, and was wondering if mutations played a significant role?
Should I only mutate when I have a potion of cure mutation handy?
Right now, I seem to just eat every chunk of mutagenic meat and quaff every mutation potion I find

What is the best way to go about it?

In general: If your goal is to win the game, never intentionally mutate yourself, except for quaffing potions of beneficial mutation.

(The gods Jiyva and Xom always, and Nemelex sometimes, have a mutation component built in to their play style that can work to your advantage, but none of that applies to you.)

Even the best mutations do not guarantee victory, whereas the worst ones can *really* weaken if not outright destroy certain characters. Some people find mutation roulette fun and like to gamble, you can certainly play that way if you want; just be warned that it involves taking unnecessary risks with your character, for (typically) dubious benefits. Bottom line: avoid random mutations.

The fun way: Quaff/Eat your way into some hideous mutated creature.
The normal way(imo): Quaff beneficial mutations, and only risk normal 'potions of mutation' if you have cure mutation handy(and like to gamble). If you already have good mutations, don't quaff normal potions of mutation.

Maybe try Minotaur Berserkers as well. Wearing a bunch of awesome armour that Ogres can't wear can make a larger chunk of enemies into lesser threats.

Thanks! I'll probably mutate myself a tad and if they are good, I'll then quaff only the beneficial mutation ones.

And I am determined to beat dungeon crawl first and foremost as an ogre berserker, because I love ogres in general

Or you can save potions of cure mutation to cure the bad mutations you get from enemies, Zot traps, etc.

Sure if you find six or seven potions of cure mutation and a bunch of potions of mutation, you have a good chance to get at least a couple of good mutations and no crippling bad ones, and still have one or two !cure mutation left over.

Nevertheless, the answer to this question



is, "No—assuming you don't get really crippling bad mutations." So especially for someone who is still trying for first win I'd suggest keeping any potions of cure mutation you find as insurance against any crippling bad mutations that you happen to get.

Just a warning that "fun" in Klown's usage means "capable of screwing up your character."

If you are asking this I'm assuming you are at least a decent way into the game, because it isn't common for mutagenic chunks and potions of mutation to crop up early. Also, potions of cure mutation are among the rarest consumables in the game—I've played through several games to a win in which I didn't see a single one. If you really want to gamble it is your call, but the sort of mutations you can get are "randomly teleports" and "randomly berserks while in combat" and "slow movement." And if you get something like that it will likely be on you for the rest of the game (or at least a very long time) unless you already have a potion of cure mutation on hand.

If you are doing well on this character already I would very, very strongly recommend against intentionally mutating yourself.

I think you can still mutate fast or slow if you have it from your race--not sure on that, though. That said, you should still avoid !mut and similar.

Randomly teleporting? I got that from a Trog GSC gift and died nearly instantly Guess I'll think twice about mutating. Thanks again <3

Did regular mutation pots get made more dangerous now that beneficial mutation pots are in? Or was I just very unlikely the first few times I tried mutation roulette and got a bunch of teleportitis, berserkitis, shouting, blurry vision, and the like? (I dont usually play roulette but it can spice things up if you are bored that day).

Beneficial mutation is awesome sauce, btw. Thanks for putting that in.

regular mutations didn't change, you just got unlucky.

Back when fulsome distillation was a thing I thought it was pretty reasonable to intentionally mutate yourself. When you had 50-60 potions stacked you could quaff until you had a decent set. Now though, there just aren't that many chunks and potions around to play the odds.

And there also used to be a mutate self spell in transmutations school (it was a level 7 spell, I believe).

Scumming fulsome or that spell could give a relatively good chance (it was still not guaranteed) of landing a set of bad mutations that didn't matter or that you could offset, along with some good mutations that made your character somewhat—usually only marginally—stronger. Assuming you didn't get greedy and stopped at a good point, then yes, it was possible to do that, although you were still taking some risk of screwing up your character completely. But even back when that was possible, I don't know that I would describe it as "reasonable."

Some people enjoy gambling/chaos, and those people will always enjoy random mutations. Whether or not you are one of those people, if you want your characters to win more often than <your favorite sports team> wins the <coveted sports object>, you should do everything in your power to avoid random mutations. As and into has already said, the odds of a good mutation significantly helping you win the game are much, much lower than the odds that a bad mutation will directly cause your character's death.

Cure mutations potions are sufficiently rare that you can't guarantee you'll receive enough of them to remove all the crippling mutations you'll receive unintentionally, so it's best to avoid wasting the potions on removing crippling mutations you received intentionally. Further, the more mutations you have, the less likely it is that the cure mutation potion will remove the crippling one(s) you really need to get rid of.

I really tried not to mutate, but when I bashed the skulls of a pack of 4 ugly things, I just had an urge to chop up the corpses and eat the mutation meat.

This is what happened:

You are surround by a mild repulsion field (EV+2.)
Armour fits poorly on your poorly shaped body.
Your body's shape seems more normal.
You are covered in icy blue scales (AC+1.)
Rugged brown scales grow over part of your body. (AC+1, 3% hp)
You can translocate small distances at will.
Your body is slowly detioriorating.
You are robust (+10% hp).
You are resistant to electric shocks.
Your muscles are strong (Str+2).

Super ogre mutant activate But now I'll stick to only good mutation potions if they come by, and hope for a sustain abilities ring soon

If you enjoy getting random mutations, you can always try playing a Demonspawn. That way you're at least guaranteed not to get anything that's strictly bad.

I'd never seriously played a CK before, but am now. Xom has, among other things, given me a generally good mutation set. He'll sometimes take it away or give you something awful (I finally quaffed the game's cmuts over I think three levels of frail and berserkitis) but in general it's been quite positive. Here's my current set:


It's definitely the "eating chunks" feel while being biased much more towards goodness.