Ranged combat damage vs skill level and stats

[tasonir]

I know, I know, nobody understands ranged combat. I guess I'm just stubborn, and figured I'd try to figure it out one more time. I just ascended a sling/crossbow user, and I had very high stats due to following Chei. It seems that strength doesn't increase crossbow damage, but it does increase slings? Would a character with 30+ strength be better off using slings? How much damage can a sling do with 45 strength? How much does a crossbow do? Assume they're both roughly +6/+6 velocity?

How does skill factor into it? I'm not sure if I should keep training my launcher skill after it's at min delay; it doesn't seem to make much of an impact to me. Maybe it's just hard to notice. Someone who spectated said that someone had created a spreadsheet for ranged combat damage, does anyone have a link to it?

My current guesses, which may be wildly wrong: Probably should go with slings when you have >35 str, assuming you have the ammo for them (you won't), and raising the skill past min delay probably helps slightly but isn't terribly important.

[crate]

fsim can help you

[duvessa]

http://crawl.develz.org/info/index.php?q=launcher+damage
http://crawl.develz.org/info/index.php?q=launcher+delay
Probably the most important things to know about ranged combat are:
- velocity is by far the best launcher brand
- stats affect delay
- each point of damage slaying is +0.25 average damage, but each point of damage enchantment is +buttload average damage
- but for bows and slings you need a certain amount of str to take full advantage of enchantment
- use a longbow, not a plain bow

Also it is likely those entries are leaving some things out, so yeah, fsim.

[tasonir]

Edit: Updated to fix a couple of math errors and boneheaded calculations. Still no promises this is right, it isn't agreeing with fsim.

Yeah, I've been looking over the launcher damage formula quite a bit while playing my last hunter. Some parts just don't make sense though, like A: A is min(3, skill/3). So A maxes out at 9 skill, and can never go above 3? It then adds 3/16 to your average damage, but also 3/2 afterwards (Why isn't that just one term?).

Going to work through the formula for my 45 strength +9 damage crossbow:

The first part of the formula is where it picks the lower of (str - 10)*(2B+A)*C vs (L+1)/4. For crossbows/longbows, B is 9.5, A we'll assume is 3 because your skill is > 9, so with enough strength, the first part, (str-10)*(2B+A) will usually be higher for slings/bows. Crossbows first term is always 0, so they never get to use L+1/4. For Slings/bows with a +9 weapon, add is 2.5 damage. Then add 4.75(fixed) + 1/8 enchantment(1.125 here) + 3/16(for anyone with >9 skill) and you get 6.0625. Now's probably a good time to mention I have no idea how crawl does rounding, I'll assume it isn't rounding intermediate values and only rounds to an integer at the end.

This 6.0625 then gets multiplied by (1+skill)/44, so with 21 skill it's cut in half to ~3, or with 27 skill it comes out to 3.85 average damage. I was using an elec crossbow, so that's final, but let's assume I had stuck with the velocity crossbow for 20% bonus damage: 4.62 damage at skill 27. Add slaying/4, for most of the end game I had around +5, so 5.87, and 1.5 for any skill > 9, and you're at 7.37, and then for crossbow only, add half the enchantment again, so 11.87 with the +9.



Used a troll since my local doesn't have formicids, but in any case: with 45 str (and 30 dex/int if that matters) and using fsim against a yak:

+0/+0 crossbow of velocity
level 5 skill: 5.7 average damage, 21 max
level 9 skill: 6.9, 24
level 13: 7.7, 27
level 27: 9.5, 39

+9/+9 crossbow of velocity
level 5 skill: 11.7 average, 38 max.
level 9: 13.2, 42
level13: 13.8, 42
level 27: 16.2, 48

So it seems like my calculation is quite a bit off, 11.8 vs 16.2, but both ways demonstrate how small of an impact skill has on damage. There really isn't that much incentive to train a ranged weapon past level 9 if you are able to reach min delay. With high stats, you can, anyone with lower stats, once you reach min delay, just stop.

This works out to about half the average damage from a 2h weapon like bardiche, although apparently the max damage on the bardiche is about 4 times higher.

- but for bows and slings you need a certain amount of str to take full advantage of enchantment

Edit: I missed the C in the formula, this is right Interestingly, you don't need any strength to get the full effect from crossbow enchantment, and crossbows get roughly double the effect (see below).

each point of damage enchantment is +buttload average damage

Actually it seems like each enchantment is +.375 damage, which is pretty close to the .25 slaying bonus. The exception to this is crossbows only, where enchantment is .625. I'm not sure I'd call that a buttload, but it is a bit more than double what slaying gives.

[and into]

What bolts were you using? The major advantage of velocity is that it stacks with branded ammo. I believe the only other launcher brand to do this is speed, but that can only appear (rarely) on artefacts. (I guess also evasion, but that doesn't help out with damage.) Try it again with launchers of velocity shooting steel foos or foos of frost, flaming.

[duvessa]

The first part of the formula is where it picks the lower of (str - 10)*(2B+A)*C vs (L+1)/4. For crossbows, B is 9.5, A we'll assume is 3 because your skill is > 9, so even with 11 strength, the first part, (str-10)*(2B+A) will always be much higher. Seriously we're talking about comparing 770 vs 2.5, in the case of my character. With less strength the difference won't be 700, but it'll still be 300 higher.

You used a value of 1 for C. The actual value of C for crossbows is 0.

[crate]

just fyi you won't actually reach min delay with xbows with many characters without chei even at skill 27

seriously just use fsim it's ridiculously easier than what you are doing and is additionally much more accurate, for both ranged and melee

[tasonir]

Seems I did overestimate melee being 70ish, according to fsim it's 37 with a max of 162. Max is roughly x4, but the average is only a bit over x2.

Also you are completely right I missed C. so the 770 vs 2.5 makes a bit more sense, let's assume I was using a sling, it would be 770/72, or roughly 10 vs 2.5. Makes the comparison a bit more logical, although the result is exactly the same - the lower 2.5 wins. For crossbows, it'll always be 0 and then the 0 will win. This means your the values I gave above are wrong for xbows: instead of .875 per enchantment, it would only be .625. I'll remove some of the wrong calculations.

[tasonir]

just fyi you won't actually reach min delay with xbows with many characters without chei even at skill 27

seriously just use fsim it's ridiculously easier than what you are doing and is additionally much more accurate, for both ranged and melee

What I'm trying to do is understand the combat formula, crazy, I know, but fsim won't help me with that aside from checking my answers

What bolts were you using? The major advantage of velocity is that it stacks with branded ammo. I believe the only other launcher brand to do this is speed, but that can only appear (rarely) on artefacts. (I guess also evasion, but that doesn't help out with damage.) Try it again with launchers of velocity shooting steel foos or foos of frost, flaming.

True, but I'm mostly concerned with the base case of regular ammo, since that's what I use most of the time. But if I'm comparing it to the bardiche you're right it's not fair to forget branded ammo does exist

[BlackSheep]

Also, when using fsim, you usually just want the number in the AvEffDam column which factors speed into the average damage calculation.

[tasonir]

I'm personally more interested in damage per attack, and nearly all weapons I use are .7 min delay anyways. Oddly bows are .6, which is probably why they are the strongest in general. I have to wonder why slings start at 1.1 but still cap at .7 when a longbow starts at 1.2 and reaches .6, but then no one said ranged combat makes sense.

[tasonir]

I'm thinking the strength requirement to get the full benefit from your enchantment is something of a red herring; having 14 strength is enough to get the full benefit from a +9 longbow. Archers would benefit more from dex, aside from being able to actually carry ammo/wear heavy armor.

As an example, I started a high elf who's using bows, and having put my level up points into strength I have 20 strength after lair/orc, with +1 from equipment. That's (10 * 22)/32 vs 2.5 to get the full power from a +9 longbow. That works out to 6.875 vs 2.5 and means I'm almost tripling the strength requirement for a +9 longbow and I don't even have a rune yet.

Edit: disclaimer: slings and short bows do require a bit more, but even so, short bows are 15 strength, and slings take 22, for bullets. Stones take more, but you don't use stones when you're looking for high damage, so. And this is only if you have a +9 weapon; it doesn't do you any good to have 22 strength and +3 sling. It will just use the lower bonus of +3 and ignore that you have the extra strength.

[crate]

having 14 strength is enough to get the full benefit from a +9 longbow

And, for normal (i.e. not-chei-worshipping) characters, 14 str is a lot!

[tasonir]

The high elf gladiator I brought into the dungeon starts out with 14 strength on turn 0. I wouldn't say it's a lot. Maybe if you start out as a caster, then ranged weapons are harder to move into, but for melee it's generally available from turn 0. Calling it a lot is a bit of a stretch High elves are a low strength race...

Centaur hunters, the classic ranged combo, also start with 14 strength...

14 strength might be a lot if you're a wizard, but otherwise, I can't see it.

[duvessa]

14 str is easy to get if you start as one of the highest strength backgrounds or races, yes. Similar to how wands of heal wounds are easy to get if you start as a deep dwarf.

What do you think of getting 22 str to use a +9 sling?

[tasonir]

22 is certainly a lot higher. For that you're going to either need high starting strength, be a race that either gets only strength or strength or something else on level up, and/or put some of your selectable points into strength. But if you're going slings as a primary damage source rather than backup to melee/magic, putting points into strength will definitely get you there. The only race that would be a good slinger and have trouble would be halflings. 22 requires effort to get to, 14 will probably just sort of happen for you on a race that can get strength from levels that isn't a mage background.

[tasonir]

Well don't ever accuse me of being unwilling to test my theories!

http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/tasonir/mor ... 010233.txt

  Code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.14-a0-1969-g2c76abe (webtiles) character file.

1567899 tasonir the Intangible (level 27, 216/216 HPs)
             Began as a Halfling Berserker on Jan 15, 2014.
             Was a High Priest of Trog.
             Escaped with the Orb
             ... and 3 runes on Jan 17, 2014!
             
             The game lasted 10:56:00 (86432 turns).

tasonir the Intangible (Halfling Berserker)        Turns: 86432, Time: 10:56:00

HP 216/216       AC 40     Str 22      XL: 27
MP  28/28        EV 38     Int  9 (10) God: Trog [*****.]
Gold 2958        SH 20     Dex 24 (25) Spells:  0 memorised, 26 levels left

rFire  + + .     SeeInvis .     b - +8,+5 demon blade (flame)
rCold  + . .     Clarity  .     N - +2 pearl dragon armour of Urass {rF+ rN+ Acc+3}
rNeg   + . .     Conserve +     k - +3 buckler {AC+3}
rPois  +         rCorr    +     z - +2 helmet {Int+3}
rElec  .         rRot     .     X - +2 dwarf cloak {rCorr, Cons}
SustAb . .       Spirit   .     d - +2 pair of dwarf gloves {archer}
rMut   .         Warding  .     c - +3 pair of boots of the spider {+Jump, Stlth+}
Saprov . . .     Stasis   .     L - amulet "Yclucix" {Cons Hunger rF+ rC+ MR++}
MR     ++++.                    Q - ring of poison resistance
                                w - ring of regeneration

@: very slightly contaminated, hasted, very quick, incredibly resistant to
hostile enchantments, fairly stealthy
A: talons 1, agile 1, blurry vision 1, deterioration 1, herbivore 1, mutation
resistance 1, slow metabolism 1, strong 1
a: Burn Spellbooks, Berserk, Trog's Hand, Brothers in Arms, Renounce Religion,
Evoke Jump Attack
0: Orb of Zot
}: 3/15 runes: decaying, serpentine, silver


You escaped.
You worshipped Trog.
Trog was extremely pleased with you.
You were not hungry.

You visited 9 branches of the dungeon, and saw 59 of its levels.
You visited 1 bazaar.
You also visited: Labyrinth, Trove and Wizlab.

You collected 6517 gold pieces.
You spent 3559 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 a - the +12,+7 sling "Demonslayer" {velocity, +Inv rN+ MR++}
   (You found it on level 4 of the Depths)   
   
   Any stone fired from it inflicts extra damage.
   
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
   It lets you turn invisible.
 b - a +8,+5 demon blade of flaming (weapon)
 I - a +1,+3 blessed scimitar of holy wrath
Missiles
 j - 45 sling bullets of frost
 s - 50 stones (quivered)
 C - 19 sling bullets
 E - 34 steel sling bullets
 S - 12 sling bullets of flame
 W - 57 poisoned sling bullets
Armour
 c - the +3 pair of boots of the spider (worn) {+Jump, Stlth+}
   (You found it on level 5 of the Vaults)   
   
   It makes you much more stealthy.
 d - a +2 pair of dwarven gloves of archery (worn)
 k - a +3 buckler of protection (worn)
 z - a +2 helmet of intelligence (worn)
 G - a +1 buckler of reflection
 N - the +2 pearl dragon armour of Urass (worn) {rF+ rN+ Acc+3}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Snake Pit)   
   
   It affects your accuracy (+3).
   It protects you from fire.
   It protects you from negative energy.
 X - a +2 dwarven cloak of preservation (worn)
Magical devices
 f - a wand of hasting (9)
 y - a wand of disintegration (13)
 P - a wand of teleportation (6)
 Z - a wand of teleportation (0)
Comestibles
 i - 4 apples
 B - a meat ration
 O - a royal jelly
 Y - 5 bread rations
Scrolls
 e - 4 scrolls of remove curse
 t - a scroll of magic mapping
 u - 2 scrolls of identify
 v - a scroll of holy word
 H - a scroll of blinking
 M - 2 scrolls of teleportation
Jewellery
 g - an uncursed ring of protection from fire
 h - an uncursed ring of protection from cold
 n - an uncursed ring of protection from cold
 o - the amulet of Eppuxiuf {+Rage rElec rPois}
   (You found it on level 1 of the Realm of Zot)   
   
   [amulet of rage]
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It protects you from poison.
 q - an uncursed ring of protection from fire
 r - a +0,+6 ring of slaying
 w - a ring of regeneration (left hand)
 A - an uncursed ring of teleport control
 D - an uncursed ring of see invisible
 F - an uncursed ring of protection from magic
 K - an uncursed ring of positive energy
 L - the amulet "Yclucix" (around neck) {Cons Hunger rF+ rC+ MR++}
   (You found it on level 5 of the Vaults)   
   
   [amulet of conservation]
   It protects you from fire.
   It protects you from cold.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
   It speeds your metabolism.
 Q - a ring of poison resistance (right hand)
 R - an uncursed amulet of clarity
Potions
 l - 2 potions of flight
 m - 2 potions of might
 x - 6 potions of resistance
 J - 8 potions of curing
 T - a potion of agility
 U - 2 potions of cure mutation
 V - 3 potions of speed


   Skills:
 + Level 24.8 Fighting
   Level 4.2 Short Blades
 - Level 18.5 Long Blades
 - Level 23.3 Slings
 - Level 4.2 Throwing
 - Level 19.0 Armour
 O Level 27 Dodging
 - Level 8.1 Stealth
 - Level 8.0 Shields
 - Level 3.1 Evocations


You had 26 spell levels left.
You didn't know any spells.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (16/16)            Temple (0/1) D:4             Orc (4/4) D:10
   Lair (8/8) D:8           Swamp (5/5) Lair:6        Snake (5/5) Lair:3
  Slime (0/6) Lair:6       Vaults (5/5) D:15          Blade (0/1) Vaults:3
   Tomb (0/3) Forest:2        Zot (5/5) Depths:6     Forest (5/5) Vaults:2
 Depths (6/6) D:16       
   Elf: Orc:3-4     

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmengos
Fedhas
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Trog
Vehumet
Yredelemnul
Zin
the Shining One
Beogh

Shops:
D:10 *   D:13 %   D:16 :   Orc:4 [*([   Depths:5 (   Depths:6 =

Portals:
Hell: Depths:1 Depths:2 Depths:3 Depths:4 Depths:5 Depths:6
Abyss: Depths:2 Depths:4
Pandemonium: Depths:2 Depths:3
Ziggurat: Depths:3

Annotations:
Lair:1 exclusion: oklob plant
Zot:5 1 exclusion
Forest:3 exclusion: 2 oklob plants
Forest:5 exclusion: oklob plant


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You are small and have problems with some larger weapons.
You are somewhat resistant to further mutation.
You have a slow metabolism.
You have sharp toenails.
You are agile. (Dex +2)
Your vision is a little blurry.
Your body is slowly deteriorating.
You digest meat inefficiently.
Your muscles are strong. (Str +2)


Message History

Lyrch sneers, "Give up, thou mewling ill-breeding urchin!"
You block the small abomination's attack.
You are very lightly contaminated with residual magic.
The small abomination completely misses you.
The lich gestures at you while chanting.
The bolt of cold hits Lyrch. Lyrch resists. The bolt of cold misses you.
Lyrch gestures.
Lyrch gestures.
Lyrch gestures.
The hellwing disappears in a puff of smoke!
The lich casts a spell.
The lich flickers and vanishes!
Deactivating autopickup; reactivate with Ctrl-A.
There is an open door here.
There is an open door here.
There is an open door here.
There is a staircase leading out of the dungeon here.
Drink which item? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
Okay, then.
You have escaped!

   #.#                   #.#   #
   #.#                   #.#   #
   #>#                   #.#   #
   #.#                   #.# ###
   #.#                   #.###..
####.#       ########### #.##...
#....#       #...'....♣# #......
#.####       #..x####'####.##...
#.#          #.@.#♣♣♣.♣#...###.#
#.###        #...#♣..♣♣##### #.#
#...#        #...#.♣♣♣♣#     #.#
###.#        #####'#####     #.#
  #.#        #.........#     #.#
  #.#        #.........####  #.#
  #.#        #......§..#..#  #..
  #.#        #≈..§4...§##.#  ###
  #.#        #≈.....§§≈##.#


You could see a small abomination.

Vanquished Creatures
  4 orbs of fire
  An ancient lich (Zot:5)
  the Lernaean hydra (Swamp:5)
  Margery (Vaults:3)
  3 Killer Klowns
  15 golden dragons
  2 curse toes
  Xtahua (Depths:6)
  5 bone dragons
  2 electric golems
  19 tentacled monstrosities
  A hellephant (Depths:6)
  A deep elf blademaster (Depths:3)
  25 Orb Guardians
  3 quicksilver dragons
  A titan (Depths:3)
  3 thorn hunters
  2 liches
  13 storm dragons
  4 tengu reavers
  A sphinx (Vaults:5)
  4 shadow dragons
  Frances (Swamp:4)
  Kirke (Swamp:4)
  Roxanne (Snake:3)
  5 fire giants
  3 draconian monks
  4 frost giants
  The ghost of thetao the Fencer, a powerful MiFi of the Shining One (Snake:4)
  Donald (Lair:3)
  Wiglaf (Depths:2)
  4 draconian knights
  6 draconian scorchers
  Aizul (Snake:5)
  Louise (D:15)
  5 ghost moths
  9 vault wardens
  5 deep elf sorcerers
  An orc warlord (Vaults:4)
  Gastronok (Lair:3)
  4 draconian zealots
  A balrug (Depths:3)
  7 draconian shifters
  Jorgrun (Snake:2)
  2 draconian annihilators
  10 ancient bears
  9 spriggan defenders
  30 stone giants
  11 treants
  7 greater nagas
  3 apis
  2 deep elf demonologists
  5 draconian callers
  A deep elf annihilator (Depths:3)
  12 grey draconians
  18 green draconians
  11 white draconians
  2 elemental wellsprings
  4 mottled draconians
  8 black draconians
  4 satyrs
  7 pale draconians
  2 purple draconians
  5 dire elephants
  11 yellow draconians
  18 ettins
  12 red draconians
  16 spriggan air magi
  Snorg (Swamp:1)
  A deep elf death mage (Depths:3)
  6 deep elf high priests
  6 ironheart preservers
  3 minotaurs
  29 vault guards
  17 fire dragons
  23 yaktaur captains
  11 death cobs
  2 great orbs of eyes
  Fannar (Lair:5)
  30 hydras
  Harold (Orc:2)
  Josephine (D:13)
  6 salamanders (Snake:5)
  12 anacondas
  20 ice dragons
  Nessos (D:11)
  69 spriggans
  3 ravenous feature mimics
  16 deep troll earth magi
  8 ogre magi
  Erica (D:15)
  6 death yaks
  6 alligators
  4 spriggan assassins
  5 spriggan druids
  A vampire mage (D:16)
  20 spriggan berserkers
  3 spriggan enchanters
  18 deep troll shamans
  6 orc high priests (Orc:4)
  The ghost of Bruce the Conjurer, a powerful HECj of Vehumet (D:11)
  41 naga warriors
  12 dryads
  A storm dragon zombie (Trove)
  4 tengu warriors
  6 soul eaters
  Urug (D:13)
  A thrashing horror (WizLab)
  2 fire crabs (shapeshifter) (Vaults:2)
  13 very ugly things
  3 sun demons (Depths:3)
  2 hell hogs (Depths:6)
  18 hell knights
  A fire crab (Vaults:1)
  Nergalle (Lair:2)
  6 deep elf knights
  A titan skeleton (Depths:3)
  22 centaur warriors
  A shadow wraith (WizLab)
  13 iron trolls
  7 water nymphs
  6 skeletal warriors
  39 fauns
  3 ice devils
  8 unseen horrors
  A flayed ghost (Vaults:2)
  2 golden dragon zombies
  A death drake (Depths:6)
  38 deep trolls
  16 swamp dragons
  2 ice statues
  5 lindwurms
  Pikel (D:4)
  2 deathcaps
  7 ironbrand convokers
  A harpy (shapeshifter) (Depths:4)
  3 giant amoebae
  7 necromancers
  A flaming corpse (Depths:3)
  Joseph (D:8)
  14 hill giants
  2 deep elf conjurers
  4 harpies (Vaults:1)
  2 wolf spiders (shapeshifter)
  22 orc knights
  A wolf spider (Forest:3)
  3 oklob plants
  A frost giant zombie (Depths:3)
  4 cyclopes
  A fire giant zombie (Depths:3)
  3 phantasmal warriors
  2 small abominations
  3 sixfirhies
  2 draconian zombies
  A spiny worm (Vaults:4)
  A draconian (shapeshifter) (Depths:6)
  2 orc sorcerers
  6 griffons
  A cyclops (shapeshifter) (Depths:4)
  2 stone giant zombies
  9 red wasps
  3 wizards
  A guardian serpent (shapeshifter) (Vaults:5)
  A tormentor (Depths:3)
  17 spiny frogs
  9 elephants
  2 octopodes (D:12)
  16 vault sentinels
  A spiny frog (shapeshifter) (Depths:4)
  A frost giant skeleton (Depths:3)
  14 guardian serpents
  61 black mambas
  A feature mimic (Snake:2)
  4 deep elf summoners
  2 item mimics
  A smoke demon (WizLab)
  Psyche (D:11)
  19 moths of wrath
  A vapour (Swamp:5)
  The ghost of tasonir the Vandal, an experienced HaBe of Trog (D:4)
  11 iron devils
  A mermaid (shapeshifter) (Vaults:5)
  3 wandering mushrooms (Zot:2)
  An efreet (WizLab)
  A komodo dragon (shapeshifter) (Depths:3)
  3 deep elf priests
  4 hellwings
  61 yaktaurs
  34 naga magi
  6 red devils (Depths:3)
  7 fire drakes
  7 komodo dragons
  14 two-headed ogres
  31 giant fireflies
  2 trolls (shapeshifter)
  A blink frog (shapeshifter) (Vaults:1)
  2 hydra zombies (D:13)
  A jumping spider (Vaults:2)
  9 thorn lotuses
  55 slime creatures
  4 baby alligators (Swamp:2)
  4 blue devils
  10 giant leeches
  14 bog bodies
  A griffon zombie (D:16)
  4 wind drakes
  A hydra skeleton (D:14)
  5 trolls
  2 boulder beetles
  A stone giant simulacrum (Depths:3)
  7 blink frogs
  4 grizzly bears
  A raven (Swamp:5)
  A red wasp zombie (D:15)
  A fire giant simulacrum (Vaults:2)
  5 basilisks
  A redback (shapeshifter) (Vaults:4)
  13 flying skulls (Depths:3)
  A shadow (D:14)
  2 baby alligators (shapeshifter)
  6 deep elf magi
  15 redbacks
  16 sharks
  A trapdoor spider (D:12)
  3 formicids (Lair:4)
  A griffon skeleton (D:12)
  An ettin skeleton (Depths:3)
  6 tarantellas
  13 air elementals
  5 wraiths
  A ynoxinul (Zot:2)
  A golden eye (shapeshifter) (Depths:3)
  3 wyverns
  117 ugly things
  4 vampires
  A fire dragon skeleton (Trove)
  A human (shapeshifter) (Vaults:1)
  A merfolk (shapeshifter) (Vaults:5)
  A steam dragon (D:12)
  2 hill giant zombies (D:13)
  A wyvern (shapeshifter) (Depths:1)
  60 yaks
  A chaos spawn (Zot:1)
  26 water elementals
  2 fire bats (shapeshifter)
  2 hippogriffs (shapeshifter)
  4 fire elementals
  A hungry ghost (Lab)
  An ugly thing skeleton (D:16)
  52 vampire mosquitoes
  13 manticores
  A neqoxec (Depths:5)
  22 deep elf fighters
  A soldier ant (D:12)
  5 hippogriffs
  40 wolves
  6 human zombies
  47 swamp worms
  2 necrophages (D:10)
  A soldier ant (shapeshifter) (Depths:1)
  6 porcupines
  5 ice beasts
  11 freezing wraiths
  A black bear (Vaults:2)
  13 hell hounds
  3 mottled dragons
  51 orc warriors
  16 swamp drakes
  3 sky beasts
  3 yellow wasps
  89 nagas
  28 giant goldfish
  7 phantoms
  42 ogres
  A boring beetle (shapeshifter) (Vaults:5)
  4 tengu (Depths:6)
  12 lava worms
  33 centaurs
  2 boring beetles
  7 wargs
  14 crocodiles
  Sigmund (D:4)
  Duvessa (D:9)
  9 giant slugs
  4 gnoll sergeants (D:4)
  A yaktaur zombie (D:16)
  A giant slug (shapeshifter) (Depths:6)
  23 insubstantial wisps
  7 big kobolds
  30 water moccasins
  37 giant frogs
  8 agate snails
  An agate snail (shapeshifter) (Depths:5)
  A glowing shapeshifter simulacrum (Depths:3)
  2 cyclops zombies (D:15)
  An eye of draining (D:10)
  A cyclops skeleton (D:12)
  12 wights
  A troll zombie (D:14)
  14 jellyfish
  6 killer bees
  12 lava fish
  9 lava snakes
  A shapeshifter (D:16)
  4 goliath beetles
  18 electric eels
  Dowan (D:9)
  12 crimson imps
  3 jellies
  41 orc priests
  19 big fish
  3 giant frog skeletons
  7 scorpions
  4 hounds
  A warg zombie (Vaults:3)
  2 basilisk skeletons
  17 orc wizards
  A quasit (D:9)
  3 gnoll shamans
  5 orange rats (Lair:4)
  2 troll simulacra (D:13)
  6 iguanas
  5 worker ants
  8 sheep
  A mottled dragon zombie (D:12)
  13 boggarts
  A hound skeleton (D:10)
  22 gnolls
  2 worm zombies
  35 adders
  4 giant centipedes
  42 green rats
  2 giant mites (Lair:3)
  A lemure (Zot:3)
  A big kobold simulacrum (D:13)
  An inept feature mimic (D:10)
  5 worms
  An ufetubus (WizLab)
  9 giant eyeballs
  13 giant geckos
  An ooze (D:3)
  199 orcs
  5 ball pythons
  A bat zombie (D:6)
  8 giant cockroaches
  27 hobgoblins
  30 jackals
  54 kobolds
  24 bats
  4 giant newts
  A giant spore (D:9)
  17 goblins
  A goblin skeleton (D:5)
  A kobold skeleton (D:6)
  A kobold zombie (D:7)
  2 orc skeletons
  2 orc zombies
  14 quokkas
  A quokka skeleton (D:4)
  22 rats
  2 rat skeletons
  A rat zombie (D:5)
  A spectral orc (D:3)
  15 ballistomycetes
  A butterfly (Forest:4)
  4 crawling corpses (Depths:3)
  A fungus (Lair:5)
  16 plants
  15 snaplasher vines
3409 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills)
  the Enchantress (Forest:5)
  Mennas (Vaults:5)
  A golden dragon (Depths:3)
  A deep elf master archer (Depths:3)
  A storm dragon (Depths:3)
  Rupert (D:14)
  A shadow dragon (Depths:3)
  A spriggan defender (Forest:5)
  A stone giant (Vaults:5)
  A deep elf annihilator (Depths:3)
  Azrael (D:15)
  A spriggan air mage (Forest:5)
  A yaktaur captain (Vaults:5)
  2 hydras (Lair:4)
  An ogre mage (Vaults:5)
  A death yak (D:8)
  2 naga warriors (Snake:4)
  3 deep elf knights (Depths:3)
  A deep troll (Vaults:5)
  An ironbrand convoker (Vaults:5)
  2 cyclopes
  A red wasp (Vaults:5)
  An elephant (Lair:4)
  A guardian serpent (Snake:4)
  A deep elf summoner (Depths:3)
  An iron devil (Depths:3)
  A shadow (D:15)
  3 yaks (D:8)
  2 fire elementals (D:15)
  5 deep elf fighters (Depths:3)
  A soldier ant (shapeshifter) (Depths:3)
  A sky beast (D:15)
  An orc warrior (D:14)
  3 nagas (Snake:4)
  A giant slug (D:8)
  A giant frog (Lair:4)
  An orc priest (D:9)
  4 sheep
  An orc (D:14)
56 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  An Orb Guardian (Zot:5)
  A tengu reaver (Vaults:5)
  A fire giant (Vaults:3)
  A stone giant (Forest:5)
  2 elemental wellsprings
  An ettin (Depths:5)
  A death cob (Zot:5)
  2 iron trolls
  A swamp dragon (Swamp:5)
  A hill giant (Depths:3)
  A red draconian zombie (Zot:2)
  A fire drake (Zot:3)
  A troll (Depths:3)
  2 two-headed ogres
  A water elemental (D:12)
  2 hell hounds
  4 ogres
  3 slaves (D:4)
  A water moccasin (Snake:2)
  An electric eel (D:12)
  A gnoll shaman (D:4)
  A worker ant (D:4)
  An adder (Snake:2)
  8 gnolls (D:4)
  2 orcs (Orc:2)
  A bat (D:9)
  2 giant spores
  A goblin (Orc:2)
  A ballistomycete (D:4)
  3 bushes (Lair:8)
  3 butterflies (D:7)
  651 eldritch tentacle segments (WizLab)
  12 fungi
  31 plants
  889 snaplasher vine segments
  16 toadstools (Lair:1)
1652 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 5117 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | tasonir, the Halfling Berserker, began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 15/15 MP: 1/1
   173 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 9/20 MP: 2/2
   453 | D:1      | Acquired Trog's second power
   786 | D:1      | Reached skill level 4 in Long Blades
   786 | D:1      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 13/25 MP: 3/3
  1298 | D:2      | Found a burning altar of Makhleb.
  1913 | D:2      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 25/30 MP: 4/4
  2480 | D:3      | Found a blossoming altar of Fedhas.
  2480 | D:3      | Found a snail-covered altar of Cheibriados.
  2482 | D:3      | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog.
  2616 | D:3      | Reached skill level 5 in Long Blades
  2771 | D:3      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 33/35 MP: 5/5
  3009 | D:3      | Reached skill level 6 in Long Blades
  3481 | D:3      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 26/41 MP: 6/6
  3493 | D:3      | Reached skill level 1 in Throwing
  3588 | D:3      | Found a basalt altar of Yredelemnul.
  3626 | D:4      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  3904 | D:4      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 38/45 MP: 7/7
  4258 | D:4      | Acquired Trog's third power
  4413 | D:4      | Noticed Pikel
  4413 | D:4      | Noticed a slave
  4413 | D:4      | Noticed a slave
  4413 | D:4      | Noticed a slave
  4463 | D:4      | Noticed a slave
  4470 | D:4      | Killed Pikel
  4470 | D:4      | Reached skill level 7 in Dodging
  4470 | D:4      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 51/51 MP: 8/8
  4483 | D:4      | Reached skill level 8 in Dodging
  4620 | D:4      | Noticed an orc warrior
  4894 | D:4      | Killed an orc warrior
  4894 | D:4      | Reached skill level 9 in Dodging
  5000 | D:4      | Noticed tasonir's ghost (experienced HaBe)
  5016 | D:4      | Killed tasonir's ghost
  5016 | D:4      | Reached skill level 10 in Dodging
  5016 | D:4      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 55/55 MP: 9/9
  5482 | D:4      | Killed a freed slave
  5680 | D:4      | Noticed Sigmund
  5764 | D:4      | Reached skill level 11 in Dodging
  6220 | D:4      | Killed a freed slave
  6329 | D:4      | Killed Sigmund
  6444 | D:4      | Killed a freed slave
  6948 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  7386 | D:5      | Reached skill level 1 in Shields
  7877 | D:5      | Got a brightly glowing dagger {flame}
  7878 | D:5      | Identified the +3,+9 dagger of Bread {flame, rPois rN+} (You took it off a kobold on level 5 of the Dungeon)
  7887 | D:5      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 53/61 MP: 10/10
  7911 | D:5      | Received a gift from Trog
  9511 | D:7      | Found a shattered altar of Ashenzari.
  9972 | D:7      | Reached skill level 10 in Long Blades
 10094 | D:7      | Killed an unseen horror
 10317 | D:8      | Found a staircase to the Lair.
 10344 | D:8      | Noticed a death yak
 10368 | D:8      | Killed a death yak
 10368 | D:8      | Reached XP level 11. HP: 24/66 MP: 11/11
 10582 | D:8      | Noticed Joseph
 10605 | D:8      | Killed Joseph
 10607 | D:8      | Received a gift from Trog
 10675 | D:8      | Found a shadowy altar of Dithmengos.
 10725 | D:8      | Reached skill level 1 in Slings
 11274 | D:9      | Found a glowing golden altar of the Shining One.
 11383 | D:9      | Reached skill level 5 in Slings
 11589 | D:9      | Found a glowing silver altar of Zin.
 12162 | D:9      | Noticed Duvessa
 12162 | D:9      | Noticed Dowan
 12200 | D:9      | Reached skill level 10 in Slings
 12232 | D:9      | Killed Duvessa
 12238 | D:9      | Killed Dowan
 12301 | D:9      | Found a sparkling altar of Nemelex Xobeh.
 12606 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts
 12956 | Lair:1   | Noticed a four-headed hydra
 12964 | Lair:1   | Killed a four-headed hydra
 13196 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 12 in Slings
 13394 | Lair:1   | Reached XP level 12. HP: 45/72 MP: 12/12
 13668 | Lair:1   | Found a blossoming altar of Fedhas.
 13692 | Lair:1   | Noticed an oklob plant
 13788 | Lair:2   | Received a gift from Trog
 13855 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 13 in Slings
 14241 | Lair:2   | Noticed Nergalle
 14259 | Lair:2   | Killed Nergalle
 14533 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 14 in Slings
 14775 | Lair:3   | Noticed Gastronok
 14819 | Lair:2   | Received a gift from Trog
 14841 | Lair:3   | Killed Gastronok
 14841 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 15 in Slings
 15258 | Lair:3   | Received a gift from Trog
 15626 | Lair:3   | Found a staircase to the Snake Pit.
 15776 | Lair:3   | Received a gift from Trog
 16226 | Lair:4   | Reached XP level 13. HP: 72/76 MP: 13/13
 16617 | Lair:4   | Noticed an eight-headed hydra
 16620 | Lair:4   | Noticed an eight-headed hydra
 16627 | Lair:4   | Killed an eight-headed hydra
 16636 | Lair:4   | Killed an eight-headed hydra
 16716 | Lair:4   | Reached skill level 5 in Shields
 16741 | Lair:4   | Noticed a seven-headed hydra
 16757 | Lair:4   | Killed a nine-headed hydra
 16871 | Lair:4   | Received a gift from Trog
 17027 | Lair:4   | Received a gift from Trog
 17910 | Lair:5   | Received a gift from Trog
 18244 | Lair:5   | Noticed Fannar
 18248 | Lair:5   | Killed Fannar
 18648 | Lair:6   | Reached XP level 14. HP: 64/86 MP: 14/14
 18995 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
 19067 | Lair:6   | Received a gift from Trog
 19102 | Lair:6   | Found a staircase to the Swamp.
 19566 | Lair:6   | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits.
 20477 | Lair:8   | Entered Level 8 of the Lair of Beasts
 20844 | Lair:8   | Received a gift from Trog
 21688 | Lair:8   | Received a gift from Trog
 22458 | Lair:5   | Reached XP level 15. HP: 98/100 MP: 15/15
 22753 | D:10     | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
 23007 | D:10     | Received a gift from Trog
 23063 | D:10     | Received a gift from Trog
 23100 | D:10     | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
 23180 | D:10     | Found Chieqa's Assorted Antiques.
 23188 | D:10     | Bought a ring of dexterity for 38 gold pieces
 23806 | D:11     | Noticed Bruce's ghost (powerful HECj)
 23817 | D:11     | Killed Bruce's ghost
 23849 | D:11     | Noticed Nessos
 23859 | D:11     | Killed Nessos
 23985 | D:11     | Noticed Psyche
 23991 | D:11     | Killed Psyche
 24195 | D:11     | Reached skill level 15 in Dodging
 24220 | D:11     | Received a gift from Trog
 25215 | D:12     | Received a gift from Trog
 25392 | Orc:1    | Entered Level 1 of the Orcish Mines
 25868 | Orc:1    | Received a gift from Trog
 25982 | Orc:2    | Noticed Harold
 26016 | Orc:2    | Killed Harold
 26187 | Orc:3    | Received a gift from Trog
 26263 | Orc:4    | Entered Level 4 of the Orcish Mines
 26851 | Orc:4    | Received a gift from Trog
 27071 | Orc:4    | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting
 27468 | Orc:4    | Reached skill level 16 in Dodging
 27515 | Orc:4    | Received a gift from Trog
 27542 | Orc:4    | Found Qolarph's Armour Shop.
 27542 | Orc:4    | Found Quum Loud's Weapon Shop.
 27542 | Orc:4    | Found Grelap's General Store.
 27546 | Orc:4    | Found Koelaj's Antique Armour Shop.
 27622 | Orc:4    | Bought a potion of beneficial mutation for 385 gold pieces
 27622 | Orc:4    | Bought a scroll of identify for 22 gold pieces
 27623 | Orc:4    | Gained mutation: Your muscles are strong. (Str +2) [potion of beneficial mutation]
 27626 | Orc:4    | Bought 21 stones for 31 gold pieces
 27628 | Orc:4    | Bought a runed robe for 16 gold pieces
 27628 | Orc:4    | Bought a pair of embroidered boots for 36 gold pieces
 27628 | Orc:4    | Bought an embroidered robe for 16 gold pieces
 27791 | Orc:4    | Received a gift from Trog
 27871 | Orc:4    | Received a gift from Trog
 27901 | Orc:4    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 28296 | D:13     | Paralysed by a red wasp for 2 turns
 28343 | D:13     | Received a gift from Trog
 28384 | D:13     | Noticed Josephine
 28396 | D:13     | Killed Josephine
 28675 | D:13     | Reached XP level 16. HP: 111/111 MP: 16/16
 28950 | D:13     | Found Twuerchau's Food Boutique.
 29205 | D:13     | Noticed Urug
 29215 | D:13     | Killed Urug
 29409 | D:14     | Noticed Rupert
 29440 | D:14     | Killed Rupert
 29564 | D:14     | Reached skill level 17 in Dodging
 29575 | D:14     | Received a gift from Trog
 31216 | D:12     | Received a gift from Trog
 31569 | D:15     | Entered Level 15 of the Dungeon
 31620 | D:15     | Noticed Azrael
 31636 | D:15     | Killed Azrael
 31722 | D:15     | Noticed Erica
 31736 | D:15     | Killed Erica
 31824 | D:15     | Received a gift from Trog
 32029 | D:15     | Noticed Louise
 32067 | D:15     | Killed Louise
 32115 | D:15     | Reached skill level 18 in Dodging
 32486 | D:15     | Found a gate to the Vaults.
 32703 | D:15     | Received a gift from Trog
 32718 | D:15     | Got an ichor-stained falchion {god gift}
 32728 | D:15     | Identified the +7,+8 falchion of the Ass {slice, rElec rN+ MR+} (Trog gifted it to you on level 15 of the Dungeon)
 32818 | D:16     | Entered Level 16 of the Dungeon
 32818 | D:16     | Found Yriah's Book Boutique.
 32874 | D:16     | Got a wavering silver ring
 32875 | D:16     | Identified the ring "Ymeseat" {Str-2 Int+4 Acc+4} (You found it on level 16 of the Dungeon)
 32944 | D:16     | Reached XP level 17. HP: 121/121 MP: 17/17
 32976 | D:16     | Found a staircase to the Depths.
 33144 | D:16     | Found a labyrinth entrance.
 33160 | Lab      | Entered a labyrinth
 33862 | D:16     | Received a gift from Trog
 34299 | Snake:1  | Entered Level 1 of the Snake Pit
 34299 | Snake:1  | Noticed Donald
 34309 | Lair:3   | Killed Donald
 34415 | Snake:1  | Reached skill level 5 in Armour
 34509 | Snake:1  | Reached skill level 19 in Dodging
 34938 | Snake:1  | Received a gift from Trog
 34960 | Snake:1  | Received a gift from Trog
 35536 | Snake:2  | Noticed Jorgrun
 35544 | Snake:2  | Killed Jorgrun
 35588 | Snake:2  | Received a gift from Trog
 35927 | Snake:3  | Noticed Roxanne
 35952 | Snake:3  | Killed Roxanne
 35990 | Snake:3  | Got a brightly glowing pearl dragon armour
 36009 | Snake:3  | Identified the +2 pearl dragon armour of Urass {rF+ rN+ Acc+3} (You found it on level 3 of the Snake Pit)
 36079 | Snake:3  | Got an ancient turquoise ring
 36245 | Snake:3  | Received a gift from Trog
 36955 | Snake:3  | Received a gift from Trog
 37416 | Snake:4  | Reached XP level 18. HP: 107/126 MP: 18/18
 37489 | Snake:4  | Noticed thetao's ghost (powerful MiFi)
 37512 | Snake:4  | Killed thetao's ghost
 37600 | Snake:4  | Received a gift from Trog
 38363 | Snake:4  | Received a gift from Trog
 38432 | Snake:5  | Entered Level 5 of the Snake Pit
 38512 | Snake:5  | Received a gift from Trog
 38719 | Snake:5  | Noticed Aizul
 38735 | Snake:5  | Killed Aizul
 38757 | Snake:5  | Received a gift from Trog
 38758 | Snake:5  | Got a smoking demon blade {god gift}
 38759 | Snake:5  | Identified the +4,+7 demon blade of the Mosquito {drain, Str+4} (Trog gifted it to you on level 5 of the Snake Pit)
 38808 | Snake:5  | Reached skill level 10 in Armour
 38985 | Snake:5  | Identified the ring of Pnasunis {rF+ Str-2} (You found it on level 3 of the Snake Pit)
 39202 | Snake:5  | Received a gift from Trog
 39294 | Snake:5  | Received a gift from Trog
 39394 | Snake:5  | Found a glowing golden altar of the Shining One.
 39546 | Snake:5  | Reached skill level 20 in Dodging
 39564 | Snake:5  | Received a gift from Trog
 39728 | Snake:5  | Received a gift from Trog
 39961 | Snake:5  | Reached XP level 19. HP: 132/132 MP: 18/18
 40171 | Snake:5  | Reached skill level 21 in Dodging
 40186 | Snake:5  | Received a gift from Trog
 40220 | Snake:5  | Received a gift from Trog
 40255 | Snake:5  | Got a serpentine rune of Zot
 40760 | Swamp:1  | Entered Level 1 of the Swamp
 40811 | Swamp:1  | Noticed Snorg
 40827 | Swamp:1  | Killed Snorg
 40884 | Swamp:1  | Received a gift from Trog
 41232 | Swamp:1  | Received a gift from Trog
 42167 | Swamp:2  | Received a gift from Trog
 43454 | Swamp:4  | Received a gift from Trog
 43562 | Swamp:4  | Noticed Frances
 43590 | Swamp:4  | Noticed Kirke
 43602 | Swamp:4  | Killed Kirke
 43611 | Swamp:4  | Killed Frances
 43753 | Swamp:5  | Entered Level 5 of the Swamp
 44151 | Swamp:5  | Reached XP level 20. HP: 106/144 MP: 19/19
 44164 | Swamp:5  | Noticed the 27-headed Lernaean hydra
 44198 | Swamp:5  | Killed the 27-headed Lernaean hydra
 44198 | Swamp:5  | Received a gift from Trog
 44214 | Swamp:5  | Reached skill level 15 in Fighting
 44361 | Swamp:5  | Got a decaying rune of Zot
 44589 | Swamp:5  | Received a gift from Trog
 45700 | Vaults:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Vaults
 45928 | Vaults:1 | Received a gift from Trog
 46112 | Vaults:1 | Received a gift from Trog
 46281 | Vaults:1 | Received a gift from Trog
 46382 | Vaults:1 | Received a gift from Trog
 47479 | Vaults:1 | Received a gift from Trog
 48259 | Vaults:2 | Found a staircase to the Enchanted Forest.
 48334 | Vaults:2 | Received a gift from Trog
 48352 | Vaults:2 | Reached skill level 22 in Dodging
 48394 | Vaults:2 | Reached XP level 21. HP: 66/153 MP: 20/20
 48734 | Vaults:2 | Received a gift from Trog
 48902 | Vaults:2 | Received a gift from Trog
 49213 | Vaults:2 | Received a gift from Trog
 49870 | Vaults:3 | Found a staircase to the Hall of Blades.
 50086 | Vaults:3 | Received a gift from Trog
 50189 | Vaults:3 | Received a gift from Trog
 50422 | Vaults:3 | Received a gift from Trog
 51015 | Vaults:3 | Noticed Margery
 51032 | Vaults:3 | Killed Margery
 51194 | Vaults:3 | Received a gift from Trog
 51356 | Vaults:4 | Reached skill level 23 in Dodging
 51791 | Vaults:4 | Received a gift from Trog
 51792 | Vaults:4 | Got a bloodstained quarterstaff {god gift}
 51934 | Vaults:4 | Reached XP level 22. HP: 112/159 MP: 20/20
 52564 | Vaults:4 | Received a gift from Trog
 53202 | Vaults:4 | Received a gift from Trog
 53316 | Vaults:4 | Found a portal to a secret trove of treasure.
 53318 | Vaults:4 | the portal to a secret trove of treasure was a mimic.
 53392 | Vaults:4 | Received a gift from Trog
 53665 | Depths:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Depths
 54113 | Depths:1 | Identified a scroll of acquirement
 54118 | Depths:1 | Identified a +1 dwarven cloak of preservation (You acquired it on level 1 of the Depths)
 54119 | Depths:1 | Got a jewelled fire dragon armour
 54140 | Depths:1 | Identified the +0 fire dragon armour of Renicepa {+Blink +Inv rF++ rC-} (You found it on level 1 of the Depths)
 54310 | Depths:1 | Received a gift from Trog
 54410 | Depths:1 | Received a gift from Trog
 54570 | Depths:1 | Reached skill level 24 in Dodging
 54823 | Depths:1 | Found a gateway to Hell.
 54863 | Depths:1 | Found a portal to a secret trove of treasure.
 54934 | Depths:2 | Found a one-way gate leading to the halls of Pandemonium.
 55071 | Depths:2 | Noticed Wiglaf
 55084 | Depths:2 | Killed Wiglaf
 55331 | Depths:2 | Gained mutation: You have sharp toenails. [potion of beneficial mutation]
 55398 | Depths:2 | Found a one-way gate to the infinite horrors of the Abyss.
 56192 | Depths:3 | Received a gift from Trog
 56240 | Depths:3 | HP: 6/159 [stone giant simulacrum (22)]
 56500 | Depths:3 | Found a burning altar of Makhleb.
 56538 | Depths:3 | HP: 4/159 [titan (32)]
 56791 | Depths:3 | Got a smoking scimitar
 56792 | Depths:3 | Identified the +5,+7 scimitar "Worm's Wrath" {slice, +Fly} (You found it on level 3 of the Depths)
 56849 | Depths:3 | Reached XP level 23. HP: 100/164 MP: 21/21
 56867 | Depths:3 | Noticed a golden dragon
 56880 | Depths:3 | Killed a golden dragon
 56910 | Depths:3 | Received a gift from Trog
 57026 | Depths:3 | Identified a +3 rod of destruction (10/10) (You took it off a deep elf knight on level 3 of the Depths)
 57183 | Depths:3 | Noticed a golden dragon
 57217 | Depths:3 | Killed a golden dragon
 57448 | Depths:3 | Found a radiant altar of Vehumet.
 57520 | Depths:3 | Found a basalt altar of Yredelemnul.
 57570 | Depths:3 | Reached skill level 15 in Armour
 57583 | Depths:3 | Received a gift from Trog
 57977 | Depths:3 | Reached skill level 25 in Dodging
 58296 | Depths:3 | Noticed a golden dragon
 58324 | Depths:3 | Received a gift from Trog
 58334 | Depths:3 | Killed a golden dragon
 58555 | Depths:3 | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog.
 58997 | Depths:3 | Found a gateway to a ziggurat.
 59449 | Depths:3 | Noticed a golden dragon
 59472 | Depths:3 | Killed a golden dragon
 59704 | Depths:4 | Received a gift from Trog
 59866 | Depths:4 | Found a magical portal.
 59877 | WizLab   | Entered a wizard's laboratory
 59881 | WizLab   | Found a corrupted altar of Lugonu.
 60158 | WizLab   | Reached XP level 24. HP: 171/171 MP: 21/21
 60268 | WizLab   | Found a corrupted altar of Lugonu.
 60603 | Depths:4 | Got a crude sling
 60604 | Depths:4 | Identified the +12,+7 sling "Demonslayer" {velocity, +Inv rN+ MR++} (You found it on level 4 of the Depths)
 60706 | Depths:4 | Received a gift from Trog
 60921 | Depths:4 | Received a gift from Trog
 61487 | Depths:3 | Received a gift from Trog
 61487 | Depths:3 | Reached skill level 26 in Dodging
 61612 | Depths:5 | Identified a +4 rod of striking (9/9) (You found it on level 4 of the Depths)
 61920 | Depths:5 | Found a flickering gateway to a bazaar.
 61954 | Bazaar   | Entered a bazaar
 61954 | Bazaar   | Found Ossaqal's Distillery.
 61962 | Bazaar   | Bought a potion of heal wounds for 45 gold pieces
 61962 | Bazaar   | Bought a potion of cure mutation for 525 gold pieces
 61962 | Bazaar   | Bought 2 potions of curing for 60 gold pieces
 61964 | Bazaar   | Found Coucwusm's Weapon Shoppe.
 61971 | Bazaar   | Bought 26 stones for 20 gold pieces
 61972 | Bazaar   | Found Wulexzy's General Store.
 61980 | Bazaar   | Bought a bread ration for 48 gold pieces
 61980 | Bazaar   | Bought a scroll of enchant armour for 66 gold pieces
 61980 | Bazaar   | Bought 23 stones for 27 gold pieces
 62002 | Bazaar   | Found Chi Doma's Distillery.
 62006 | Bazaar   | Found Qinamaypt's Distillery.
 62009 | Bazaar   | Bought a potion of curing for 32 gold pieces
 62009 | Bazaar   | Bought a potion of heal wounds for 48 gold pieces
 62009 | Bazaar   | Bought a potion of speed for 88 gold pieces
 62009 | Bazaar   | Bought a potion of curing for 32 gold pieces
 62019 | Bazaar   | Bought a potion of curing for 30 gold pieces
 62019 | Bazaar   | Bought a potion of heal wounds for 45 gold pieces
 62019 | Bazaar   | Bought a potion of curing for 30 gold pieces
 62019 | Bazaar   | Bought a potion of curing for 30 gold pieces
 62019 | Bazaar   | Bought 2 potions of resistance for 210 gold pieces
 62019 | Bazaar   | Bought a potion of resistance for 105 gold pieces
 62019 | Bazaar   | Bought a potion of berserk rage for 45 gold pieces
 62019 | Bazaar   | Bought a potion of resistance for 105 gold pieces
 62019 | Bazaar   | Bought a potion of speed for 82 gold pieces
 62019 | Bazaar   | Bought a potion of heal wounds for 45 gold pieces
 62019 | Bazaar   | Bought a potion of curing for 30 gold pieces
 62181 | Depths:5 | Received a gift from Trog
 62289 | Depths:5 | Found an iron altar of Okawaru.
 62316 | Depths:5 | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 3 turns
 63120 | Depths:5 | Found Eloniul's Antique Weapon Emporium.
 63352 | Depths:5 | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 2 turns
 64201 | Trove    | Entered a treasure trove
 64450 | Forest:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Enchanted Forest
 64516 | Forest:1 | Received a gift from Trog
 64535 | Forest:1 | Got a jewelled falchion {god gift}
 64536 | Forest:1 | Identified the +1,-2 falchion of Animal Spirits {flame, rPois Dex+1 SInv} (Trog gifted it to you on level 1 of the Enchanted Forest)
 64627 | Forest:1 | Reached XP level 25. HP: 129/177 MP: 22/22
 64992 | Forest:1 | Received a gift from Trog
 65162 | Forest:1 | Reached skill level 27 in Dodging
 66000 | Forest:2 | Received a gift from Trog
 66221 | Forest:2 | Received a gift from Trog
 66708 | Forest:2 | Found a staircase to the Tomb.
 68172 | Forest:3 | Received a gift from Trog
 68952 | Forest:4 | Upgraded the game from 0.14-a0-1946-g4d23bc5 to 0.14-a0-1969-g2c76abe
 68962 | Forest:4 | Received a gift from Trog
 69206 | Forest:4 | Received a gift from Trog
 69877 | Forest:4 | Reached XP level 26. HP: 89/187 MP: 22/22
 70182 | Forest:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Enchanted Forest
 70659 | Forest:5 | Received a gift from Trog
 70695 | Forest:5 | Reached skill level 15 in Long Blades
 71051 | Forest:5 | Received a gift from Trog
 71122 | Forest:5 | Received a gift from Trog
 71210 | Forest:5 | Got a jewelled long sword {god gift}
 71211 | Forest:5 | Identified the +6,+5 long sword "Zaret" {flame, +Blink +Inv rElec Str-1} (Trog gifted it to you on level 5 of the Enchanted Forest)
 71244 | Forest:5 | Noticed the Enchantress
 71262 | Forest:5 | Killed the Enchantress
 71326 | Forest:5 | Got a slimy whip {freeze}
 71327 | Forest:5 | Identified the cursed +6,+8 whip of the Girdle {freeze, Str+2 Stlth++} (You took it off a spriggan on level 5 of the Enchanted Forest)
 71346 | Forest:5 | Got a faerie dragon armour
 71365 | Forest:5 | Identified the +6 faerie dragon armour {rN+ Stlth Clar} (You took it off the Enchantress on level 5 of the Enchanted Forest)
 71776 | Forest:5 | Received a gift from Trog
 72113 | Forest:5 | Received a gift from Trog
 72150 | Forest:5 | Received a gift from Trog
 73082 | Vaults:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Vaults
 73180 | Vaults:4 | Received a gift from Trog
 73434 | Vaults:4 | Reached XP level 27. HP: 156/197 MP: 23/23
 73729 | Vaults:5 | Received a gift from Trog
 74112 | Vaults:5 | Noticed Mennas
 74134 | Vaults:5 | Killed Mennas
 74291 | Vaults:5 | Received a gift from Trog
 74506 | Vaults:5 | Got a silver rune of Zot
 74619 | Vaults:5 | Received a gift from Trog
 74912 | Vaults:5 | Got a scintillating brass amulet
 74914 | Vaults:5 | Identified the amulet "Yclucix" {Cons Hunger rF+ rC+ MR++} (You found it on level 5 of the Vaults)
 75072 | Vaults:5 | Got a fine plate armour
 75095 | Vaults:5 | Identified the +2 plate armour of Beogh's Approval {+Rage rElec Stlth--} (You found it on level 5 of the Vaults)
 75324 | Vaults:5 | Reached skill level 1 in Evocations
 75450 | Vaults:5 | Received a gift from Trog
 76462 | Depths:6 | Entered Level 6 of the Depths
 76676 | Depths:6 | Noticed Xtahua
 76688 | Depths:6 | Killed Xtahua
 77112 | Depths:6 | Received a gift from Trog
 77243 | Depths:6 | Found a gate to the Realm of Zot.
 78080 | Depths:6 | Found Kackur's Jewellery Shoppe.
 78180 | Depths:6 | Bought a +0,+6 ring of slaying for 1267 gold pieces
 78235 | Zot:1    | Entered Level 1 of the Realm of Zot
 78332 | Zot:1    | Received a gift from Trog
 78518 | Zot:1    | Got a pitted brass amulet
 78521 | Zot:1    | Identified the amulet of Eppuxiuf {+Rage rElec rPois} (You found it on level 1 of the Realm of Zot)
 79501 | Zot:2    | Noticed an orb of fire
 79514 | Zot:2    | Gained mutation: You are agile. (Dex +2) [an orb of fire]
 79515 | Zot:2    | Gained mutation: Your body is slowly deteriorating. [an orb of fire]
 79520 | Zot:2    | Killed an orb of fire
 80053 | Zot:2    | Received a gift from Trog
 80526 | Zot:2    | Received a gift from Trog
 82537 | Zot:4    | Received a gift from Trog
 82782 | Zot:4    | Received a gift from Trog
 83943 | Zot:5    | Entered Level 5 of the Realm of Zot
 84317 | Zot:5    | Received a gift from Trog
 84320 | Zot:5    | Noticed an orb of fire
 84333 | Zot:5    | Killed an orb of fire
 84672 | Zot:5    | Noticed an ancient lich
 84681 | Zot:5    | Killed an ancient lich
 84690 | Zot:5    | Reached skill level 5 in Stealth
 84921 | Zot:5    | Noticed an orb of fire
 84940 | Zot:5    | Noticed an orb of fire
 84945 | Zot:5    | Killed an orb of fire
 84958 | Zot:5    | Killed an orb of fire
 85552 | Zot:5    | Got the Orb of Zot
 85589 | Zot:5    | Noticed an orb of fire
 85589 | Zot:5    | Gained mutation: You digest meat inefficiently. [an orb of fire]
 85592 | Zot:5    | Gained mutation: Your vision is a little blurry. [an orb of fire]
 85593 | Zot:5    | Noticed an orb of fire
 85682 | Zot:3    | Received a gift from Trog
 86182 | D:7      | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 2 turns
 86407 | D:1      | Noticed Lyrch the pandemonium lord
 86432 | D:$      | Escaped with the Orb!
             


Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 | 19-21 | 22-24 | 25-27 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Falchion          |   137 |   218 |   756 |       |       |       |       |       |       ||  1111
       Dagger            |       |       |     3 |   163 |       |       |       |       |       ||   166
       Long sword        |       |       |       |   175 |       |       |       |       |       ||   175
       Scimitar          |       |       |       |   613 |  1048 |   558 |  1539 |       |       ||  3758
       Bastard sword     |       |       |       |    47 |    11 |       |       |       |       ||    58
       Sling             |       |       |       |       |     1 |     3 |       |     1 |     1 ||     6
       Demon blade       |       |       |       |       |       |       |   129 |  1440 |  1187 ||  2756
 Fire: Blowgun           |       |       |     2 |    11 |    13 |       |       |       |       ||    26
       Sling             |       |       |       |   405 |  1500 |  1936 |  1253 |  1500 |  4569 || 11163
Throw: Tomahawk          |       |     3 |    17 |       |       |       |       |       |       ||    20
Invok: Berserk           |     1 |     3 |     8 |    10 |     4 |       |       |     3 |     1 ||    30
       Burn Spellbooks   |       |       |     1 |     1 |     1 |     3 |     1 |     3 |     6 ||    16
       Trog's Hand       |       |       |     1 |     6 |     2 |     5 |     8 |     6 |    15 ||    43
       Brothers in Arms  |       |       |       |     2 |     2 |     3 |       |     6 |     6 ||    19
 Abil: Evoke Flight      |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     2 ||     2
       Evoke Jump Attack |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     2 ||     2
Evoke: Wand              |       |     6 |     1 |     4 |     5 |     8 |     2 |     9 |     2 ||    37
       Deck              |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     1 |       ||     1
  Use: Potion            |       |     3 |     1 |     2 |     5 |     4 |     4 |    10 |    21 ||    50
       Scroll            |       |       |     2 |    17 |    20 |    14 |    13 |    21 |    27 ||   114
 Stab: Sleeping          |     1 |       |     1 |     2 |     1 |       |       |       |     1 ||     6
       Confused          |       |       |       |     2 |       |       |     1 |       |       ||     3
       Distracted        |       |       |       |       |       |       |     1 |       |       ||     1


Fired up a quick halfling slinger for testing, and really the strength isn't that hard to get. Is it cheating to start as a berserker? I mean, I don't feel like I should have to pick a bad background, and I clearly wanted trog. I put about 5 points into str, 4 into dex, if I remember correctly. I was able to put a bit more into dex because I got a +2 str mutation, but if I didn't have that it would just mean 2 less dex, which wouldn't have hurt my 39 EV much (38 in the morgue is from my deteriorating body). I didn't even need 22 strength for this run because the randart sling I had was +7 damage, which means 20 strength was all that benefited me in terms of damage. Of course it still helps with being able to carry ammo and wearing the pearl dragon armor I had. I wasn't entirely sure I liked the pearl dragon armor I had since it was stuck at +2, but the fire resistance was very helpful. I actually found a plain pearl dragon armor as well, but didn't have many enchant armor scrolls at the time. In any case, they were enough to get me away from the mottled dragon armor I had originally picked, so the strength was useful.

I just feel like I shouldn't have to talk about inventory management or heavy armor in order to justify strength when I'm playing the ranged weapon with the highest strength requirements. Slings should get more damage the more strength you have, and there shouldn't be some magic number, 20 or 22, where it just stops. Imho the ranged combat formulas aren't nearly as refined as melee or magic, and they fail to account for certain situations. High skill is also unrewarding, I left mine at 23.3, but that was mostly because I was running out of things to train. I could have easily stopped around 18 or so and it would have hardly mattered.

[XuaXua]

Pearl Dragon armour of Your Ass.

[tasonir]

You know, I got through the entire game without realizing that said Ur ass. I think I might be a little be focused on stats Had some really bad armor for the first half of the game, but man, by the end I had really found a lot of nice items, looking over that list again. Every slot was good

But staying on the point, the concerns I think that game shows are:
1) I don't have the option to get more strength to increase my damage, any points after 20 don't increase damage at all with my +7 sling. I dumped the rest into dex, fine, but I should have the *option* to do pure damage instead. Also, having to know the breakpoint, which is different depending on your sling's enchantment, is tedious and *very* spoilery. You need to know the formula to play optimally.

2) Additional sling skill is nearly pointless. The rate at which sling skill adds to your effective damage after you've reached minimal delay is too slow and nearly pointless. Maybe I should have left it at the 18ish I used through most of the midgame, but I eventually did dump some more in to bring it to 23.3. Going to 27 would be a waste.