Scroll of Vulnerability and Invisiblilty

[Laraso]

The scroll of invulnerability costs 127 coins, more than the cost of 2 blink scrolls. What's up with that? Is there some use to it that I don't know about?

Also, is there some secret way to use invisibility and... well, be invisible? Every time I quaff a potion of invisibility or cast an invisibility spell, monsters still behave normally, the only difference is that they have an ! on their tile. It's like I'm still visible.

[Curio]

Also, is there some secret way to use invisibility and... well, be invisible? Every time I quaff a potion of invisibility or cast an invisibility spell, monsters still behave normally, the only difference is that they have an ! on their tile. It's like I'm still visible.

Do you wear heavy armour and/or bad at stealth?
Because if monsters saw you became invisible and you clanging with that plate of yours - they still can spot your whereabouts.
First time I used invis in Crawl I was also startled - monsters still was following me.
I wish invis was more potent but I think it is fine right now - at least not overpowered as much as in many other games.

[Laraso]

I was a Deep Elf Fire Elementalist... According to the mourge I was stealthy.

  Code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.7.1-1-g7ce9b19 character file.

9107 Laraso the Arsonist (level 11, -2/50 HPs)
             Began as a Deep Elf Fire Elementalist on Mar 20, 2011.
             Was a Priest of Sif Muna.
             Slain by a killer bee (4 damage)
             ... on Level 13 of the Dungeon.
             The game lasted 00:53:58 (12417 turns).

Laraso the Arsonist (Deep Elf Fire Elementalist)                                                       Turns: 12417, Time: 00:53:58

HP  -2/50        AC  7     Str  8      Exp: 11/12521 (1), need: 9108
MP   7/30        EV 20     Int 21      God: Sif Muna [***...]
Gold 343         SH  0     Dex 16      Spells:  6 memorised,  8 levels left

Res.Fire  : . . .   See Invis. : .   F - staff of air
Res.Cold  : . . .   Warding    : .   D - +2 robe
Life Prot.: . . .   Conserve   : .   (no shield)
Res.Poison: .       Res.Corr.  : .   (no helmet)
Res.Elec. : +       Clarity    : .   (no cloak)
Spirit.Shd: .       Stasis     : .   s - +1 pair of gauntlets
Sust.Abil.: . .     Rnd.Telep. : .   t - +0 pair of boots
Res.Mut.  : .       Ctrl.Telep.: .   (no amulet)
Res.Rott. : .       Levitation : .   a - +3 ring of evasion
Saprovore : . . .   Ctrl.Flight: .   u - +4 ring of evasion

@: mildly poisoned, somewhat resistant to hostile enchantments, stealthy
A: Dex +1
a: Channel Energy, Forget Spell, Renounce Religion


You were on level 13 of the Dungeon.
You worshipped Sif Muna.
Sif Muna was greatly pleased with you.
You were hungry.

You visited 3 branches of the dungeon, and saw 15 of its levels.

You collected 354 gold pieces.
You spent 31 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 h - a +0,+0 dagger (quivered)
 w - a +0 blowgun
Missiles
 j - 8 poisoned +0 elven needles
 y - 37 poisoned +0 needles
Armour
 s - a +1 pair of gauntlets (worn)
 t - a +0 pair of boots (worn)
 D - a +2 robe (worn)
Magical devices
 k - a wand of cold (1)
 m - a wand of frost (0)
 r - a wand of random effects (18)
 E - a wand of polymorph other (5)
 G - a wand of magic darts (10)
 H - a wand of cold (9)
 I - a wand of digging (8)
 N - a wand of cold (0)
Comestibles
 c - 3 bread rations
 n - 2 chokos
 p - 11 honeycombs
 x - 4 pears
 z - a lychee
 J - a slice of pizza
Scrolls
 e - a scroll of enchant weapon II
 f - 7 scrolls of remove curse
 i - 4 scrolls of teleportation
 l - 5 scrolls of detect curse
 q - 3 scrolls of enchant weapon I
 C - 3 scrolls of identify
 P - a scroll of fog
Jewellery
 a - a +3 ring of evasion (right hand)
 d - an uncursed ring of life protection {unknown}
 g - an uncursed ring of see invisible
 u - a +4 ring of evasion (left hand)
 A - an uncursed ring of regeneration
Potions
 o - 5 potions of brilliance
 v - a potion of magic
 B - a potion of speed
 M - a potion of levitation
Books
 b - a book of Flames   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   *Flame Tongue                      Conjuration/Fire             1
   *Throw Flame                       Conjuration/Fire             2
   *Conjure Flame                     Conjuration/Fire             3
   *Sticky Flame                      Conjuration/Fire             4
   *Bolt of Fire                      Conjuration/Fire             6
   *Fireball                          Conjuration/Fire             6
   
Magical staves
 F - a staff of air (weapon)


 You had 1 experience left.

   Skills:
 - Level 3 Dodging
 - Level 3 Stealth
 + Level 10 Spellcasting
 + Level 13 Conjurations
 + Level 13 Fire Magic
 + Level 1 Evocations


You had 8 spell levels left.
You knew the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power          Success   Level
a - Flame Tongue          Fire/Conj      ######         Excellent   1
b - Throw Flame           Fire/Conj      #######        Excellent   2
c - Conjure Flame         Fire/Conj      #######..      Excellent   3
d - Sticky Flame          Fire/Conj      #######..      Excellent   4
e - Bolt of Fire          Fire/Conj      #######...     Great       6
f - Fireball              Fire/Conj      #######...     Great       6


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (13/27)            Temple (1/1) D:5             Orc (0/4) D:7
   Hive (1/2) D:13       
  Lair: D:8-13     

Altars:
Cheibriados
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Sif Muna
The Shining One
Trog
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin

Shops:
D:4: (  D:6: !=*[[  D:8: *  D:10: ?

Annotations
D:3 exclusion: downstairs
D:5 exclusion: downstairs
D:6 Shops


                    Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You are agile (Dex +1).


Message History

Okay, then.
Cast which spell? (? or * to list)
Casting: Bolt of Fire
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f - killer bee
Aim: A killer bee
The bolt of fire misses the killer bee. The killer bee stings you.
You die...

      ...          #.......#.# #
      ....         #.......#.#..
      .....        #.......#.#..
      ......       #.....<......
######....         ####.##.#.#..
........              #.##...#
......#              ##....###..
......################..........
...%.......##..).......##......#
...............kk......###....##
#####..........@k.......###..##
    #....................#####
    #......##.............#
    #########.............#
            #............##
            ##########..##
                     ..##
                      .#


You could see 3 killer bees.

Vanquished Creatures
  Joseph (D:7)
  An oklob plant (D:6)
  A wolf spider (D:10)
  A slime creature (D:11)
  2 trolls
  A queen bee (D:12)
  A two-headed ogre (D:13)
  3 giant toads
  A wyvern (D:12)
  3 yaks (D:12)
  A vampire (D:12)
  A wraith (D:12)
  Edmund (D:6)
  A hungry ghost (D:11)
  4 orc warriors
  4 ice beasts
  Menkaure (D:7)
  5 ogres
  5 centaurs
  A gila monster (D:13)
  A yak skeleton (D:12)
  Sigmund (D:4)
  A water moccasin (D:9)
  A soldier ant zombie (D:10)
  3 giant frogs
  A big kobold (D:11)
  A water moccasin skeleton (D:8)
  36 killer bees
  A killer bee zombie (D:6)
  2 giant beetles
  2 big kobold skeletons
  2 hounds
  2 imps
  3 orc priests
  A hound zombie (D:12)
  A hound skeleton (D:10)
  4 orc wizards
  9 giant ants
  An iguana (D:6)
  4 scorpions
  An orange rat (D:12)
  A jelly (D:12)
  7 gnolls
  3 green rats (D:12)
  A giant centipede (D:12)
  6 snakes
  A giant centipede zombie (D:12)
  3 giant mites
  3 worms
  A grey rat (D:12)
  3 giant eyeballs
  2 giant geckos (D:2)
  20 giant bats
  5 giant cockroaches
  11 hobgoblins
  20 kobolds
  15 orcs
  3 quokkas
  7 giant newts
  A giant spore (D:10)
  13 goblins
  6 killer bee larvae (D:12)
  2 kobold skeletons
  3 orc skeletons
  A quokka skeleton (D:4)
  12 rats
  A rat skeleton (D:4)
  A small snake (D:3)
  A ballistomycete (D:10)
  5 toadstools
275 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  A goblin (D:12)
  A giant spore (D:12)
  A kobold (D:3)
  12 toadstools
15 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 290 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place   | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1     | Laraso, the Deep Elf Fire Elementalist, began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1     | Reached XP level 1. HP: 8/8 MP: 4/4
   394 | D:1     | Reached skill 4 in Fire Magic
   572 | D:1     | Reached XP level 2. HP: 12/12 MP: 5/7
  1324 | D:2     | Learned a level 2 spell: Throw Flame
  1419 | D:2     | Reached XP level 3. HP: 12/16 MP: 5/9
  1910 | D:2     | Reached XP level 4. HP: 20/20 MP: 10/13
  1910 | D:2     | Reached skill 5 in Fire Magic
  2365 | D:3     | Found a glowing silver altar of Zin.
  3217 | D:4     | Learned a level 3 spell: Conjure Flame
  3219 | D:4     | Noticed Sigmund
  3370 | D:3     | Reached skill 6 in Fire Magic
  3495 | D:3     | Reached XP level 5. HP: 21/25 MP: 11/15
  3508 | D:3     | Learned a level 4 spell: Sticky Flame
  3524 | D:3     | Reached skill 5 in Conjurations
  3908 | D:4     | Defeated Sigmund
  3971 | D:4     | Found Ehoib's Weapon Emporium.
  4057 | D:4     | Reached XP level 6. HP: 28/28 MP: 2/19
  4263 | D:4     | Reached skill 7 in Fire Magic
  4358 | D:5     | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  4664 | D:5     | Reached skill 5 in Spellcasting
  4691 | D:6     | Found Shreviemp's Jewellery Emporium.
  4693 | D:6     | Found Puc Uhil's Assorted Antiques.
  4694 | D:6     | Found Houwon's Distillery.
  4700 | D:6     | Bought a cursed -2,-3 ring of slaying for 1 gold piece
  4705 | D:6     | Bought a potion of slowing for 3 gold pieces
  4711 | D:6     | Bought a potion of poison for 1 gold piece
  4967 | D:6     | Found Masianam's Armour Boutique.
  5011 | D:6     | Found an iron altar of Okawaru.
  5012 | D:6     | Noticed an oklob plant
  5080 | D:6     | Defeated an oklob plant
  5080 | D:6     | Reached XP level 7. HP: 33/33 MP: 18/21
  5527 | D:6     | Reached skill 8 in Fire Magic
  5531 | D:6     | Noticed Edmund
  5539 | D:6     | Reached XP level 8. HP: 26/37 MP: 13/24
  5554 | D:6     | Defeated Edmund
  6119 | D:6     | Found Kataf's Antique Armour Boutique.
  6321 | D:7     | Reached skill 9 in Fire Magic
  6409 | D:7     | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
  6415 | D:7     | Noticed Joseph
  6449 | D:7     | Defeated Joseph
  6537 | D:7     | Reached XP level 9. HP: 36/41 MP: 4/26
  6758 | D:7     | Reached skill 10 in Fire Magic
  7292 | D:7     | Noticed Menkaure
  7331 | D:7     | Defeated Menkaure
  7509 | D:5     | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  7547 | Temple  | Entered the Ecumenical Temple
  7609 | Temple  | Became a worshipper of Sif Muna the Loreminder
  7796 | D:8     | Reached skill 10 in Conjurations
  7814 | D:8     | Learned a level 6 spell: Bolt of Fire
  7822 | D:8     | Learned a level 6 spell: Fireball
  7962 | D:7     | Reached skill 11 in Fire Magic
  8084 | D:8     | Found Waplusor's General Store.
  8103 | D:8     | Bought a scroll of identify for 26 gold pieces
  8258 | D:8     | Gained mutation: You are agile (Dex +1).
  8677 | D:9     | Acquired Sif Muna's first power
  8944 | D:10    | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
  9089 | D:10    | Reached XP level 10. HP: 43/45 MP: 23/28
  9314 | D:10    | Found Treur's Magic Scroll Boutique.
  9700 | D:10    | Reached skill 12 in Fire Magic
  9886 | D:11    | Acquired Sif Muna's second power
 10004 | D:11    | You fall through a shaft!
 11052 | D:12    | Noticed a queen bee
 11082 | D:12    | Defeated a queen bee
 11248 | D:12    | Reached skill 10 in Spellcasting
 11297 | D:12    | Reached skill 13 in Fire Magic
 11350 | D:12    | Reached skill 1 in Evocations
 11917 | D:12    | Reached XP level 11. HP: 50/50 MP: 21/30
 12215 | D:13    | Found a staircase to the Hive.
 12255 | Hive:1  | Entered Level 1 of the Hive
 12416 | D:13    | HP: 1/50 [killer bee (6)]
 12417 | D:13    | Slain by a killer bee

While admittedly it was a stupid idea (I wasn't ready for it), I entered the Hive and I got swarmed by a mob of killer bees and despite being invisible they saw my every move. I barely made it to staircase before I died.

Why should Sigmund be able to become completely invisible and undetected (summons won't even see him)? I think it should apply to the player too.

[Laraso]

If you turn invisible while in sight of monsters, they'll know where you are, and they'll most likely keep knowing where you are.

So are you supposed to use it before you ever see the monsters at all? Or just quaff it, blink, and hope for the best?

[gb]

So are you supposed to use it before you ever see the monsters at all? Or just quaff it, blink, and hope for the best?

duck around the corner and quaff that potion, then they won't see you. also make sure you read the creature descriptions (using 'x'), some creatures like dogs will sense invisible creatures (they smell you) and have a better chance against you when you're invisible. some creatures can see invisible and being invisible has no effect.

[TwilightPhoenix]

Even if they do know where you're at, you are at least a little bit more evasive, if not much more (not sure what it depends on, stealth? armor weight? noise generated?), while invisible.

[njvack]

If a monster is asleep while you're invisible, you have only a very tiny chance of waking it up, unless you do something that makes a lot of noise like shouting or casting a loud spell. Even if your stealth is terrible.

...

The invisibility mechanics are pretty strange.

That is strange. If they're asleep, how would being invisible stop them from seeing you?

I always imagined stealth was pretty much about noise, because how can my character make itself harder to see?

[Laraso]

Can someone answer my original question about the Scroll of Vulnerability?

[Laraso]

Oh, I didn't know you could use it on enemies. I just use-ID'ed my first one yesterday and it said "You feel less resistant!" So I thought it was a bad scroll along the lines of a potion of confusion.

[gb]

Can someone answer my original question about the Scroll of Vulnerability?

it's worthless. i think it might help with yredelemnul's enslave soul ability, in case you wanted to use it on a unique. but most of the time they have high enough MR that it'll still probably fail.