Learning From Morgue Files


Ask fellow adventurers how to stay alive in the deep, dark, dangerous dungeon below, or share your own accumulated wisdom.

Blades Runner

Posts: 552

Joined: Tuesday, 10th April 2012, 21:11

Post Saturday, 11th January 2014, 23:56

Learning From Morgue Files

Preface
This guide is intended for intermediate players, as it deals exclusively with strategy. Players very new to the game will be best served focusing on tactics, which are harder to teach in words. I think the best way to learn tactics is to play a lot and to spectate strong players. Some tactical advice from this forum (from crate I think) that really helped me was: "When you first see a creature, it is often best to move away rather than towards it." That simple advice can teach a lot about monster AI, movement, positioning, and the role of noise, which are the heart of tactics in Crawl.

I. Introduction

a) Instructive power of morgue files
Crawl demands strategic decisions from the player from start to finish. Reviewing morgue files can help strengthen decision making. It does so by giving a window into the thought processes of stronger players. This guide is inspired from chess, where one of the most time tested ways to improve is to play through the games of masters.

b) Where to get morgue files
Latest tournament
Overall game list
Recent wins

c) Choosing games
Any of the players with 50 or more wins are generally a safe bet to learn from. First, decide which species you're interested in. Then, open up five or so player profiles, scroll down the list of wins, and open tabs to any winning games of the species you want in the game version you are playing. Note how many runes they got, because that can affect the end character a lot. Try to collect five or more games that look interesting.

d) Mindset
It's important not to mindlessly ape what the player did. There's no guarantee that the RNG will give you what you want, so always base strategic decisions on the materials you have at hand. The goal of learning from morgue files is to identify key decisions the player made, and ask why they might made those choices. It can be very instructive to mentally walk through the process of building and playing a winning character. There will also be general patterns to notice across games. Again, remember to think critically, because trying to copy a character exactly tends to fail, and you also might be looking at someone's challenge game where they intentionally handicapped themselves.

II. Reviewing The Morgue File

a) The Overview
The first screen of the morgue file has a lot of information packed into a small area. Take a moment to look it over at first, and get a general feel for the character. Is it a caster, fighter, or hybrid? How did the player build around species strengths and limitations? After that, I think the most important areas you want to look at are: god choice, stats, defenses, weapon, and body armor. Try to think why they may have chosen each one, and how it synergizes with the rest. Did they pump one stat or are they fairly even? Are AC\EV even or is one very high? (try to think about minimum defense numbers you want to aim for on your characters) Look up weapon base types and egos if they are unfamiliar to you. Check out armor weight and think how it affects the character's spell casting, stealth and evasion. God choice influences the character immensely, so look up anything you are unfamiliar with and apply that knowledge to the character before you.

b) Skills and Spells
Once you have a clear picture of the overall character in mind, then proceed down to skills and spells. For spells, look at the success rates and think about how the selected spells contribute to the general plan of the character. Note spells that recur often across games. For skills, try to think about what order they were built in, and note their stopping points. What was the character's main offense in early, middle and late game? How do their skills fit in with their equipment, spells, god and stats?

c) Branch order and Actions
Afterwards, you can also look at the milestone section, to get a general view of branch order and skill training. The new Actions section is extremely informative. Through it you can see what spells and weapons the player used, how often, and at what experience levels.

III. Summing up

This needn't be a laborious and time consuming process. Just go through and notice as much general patterns as you can, and ask yourself questions. Personally I think it's really fun to look at the wide variety of characters and items, and see the creative ways that people use to win. Going through the questioning process will yield fruit in your games, by giving you a rational basis to make your decisions from. Asking questions on the forum is good too, but it is satisfying and useful to strengthen your own ability to assess choices as they come up.



Bonus
Spoiler: show
Continuing in the spirit of chess, I'm going to look at a game where I died and see where I could have improved strategically. The immediate cause of death was a series of tactical blunders, but surely there were strategic lessons to take away also:

http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/mooco ... 025113.txt

  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.13-b1-32-g21a608e (webtiles) character file.

220035 moocowmoocow the Imperceptible (level 20, -3/131 HPs)
             Began as a Halfling Abyssal Knight on Sept 29, 2013.
             Was the Champion of Lugonu.
             Slain by a deep troll shaman (24 damage)
             ... on Level 22 of the Dungeon on Oct 7, 2013.
             The game lasted 06:17:03 (53306 turns).

moocowmoocow the Imperceptible (HaAK)              Turns: 53306, Time: 06:17:03

HP  -3/131       AC 19     Str 12      XL: 20   Next: 25%
MP   6/11        EV 30     Int 17      God: Lugonu [******]
Gold 2825        SH 17     Dex 22      Spells:  7 memorised, 13 levels left

Res.Fire  : x . .   See Invis. : +   p - +8,+7 sabre of Vetz {antimagic, Str+2 Dex+
Res.Cold  : + + .   Warding    : .   u - +4 ring mail "Shuzxiw" {rElec SInv}
Life Prot.: . . .   Conserve   : .   b - +0 elf buckler
Res.Poison: .       Res.Corr.  : .   y - +4 helmet "Pryfakkoics" {rC+ MR+}
Res.Elec. : +       Clarity    : .   W - +0 cloak (curse)
Sust.Abil.: . .     Spirit.Shd : .   r - +2 pair of gauntlets
Res.Mut.  : .       Stasis     : .   R - +1 pair of boots
Res.Rott. : .       Flight     : .   (no amulet)
Saprovore : . . .                    d - +5,+4 ring of slaying
                                     f - ring of ice

@: repel missiles, very slightly contaminated, hasted, very quick, very
resistant to hostile enchantments, incredibly stealthy
A: deformed body, mutation resistance 1, slow metabolism 1
a: Depart the Abyss, Bend Space, Banish, Corrupt, Enter the Abyss, Renounce
Religion


In the first section, it looks like my character is an EV reliant fighter, supplemented with some spells and Loguno's Banishment and Corrupt abilities. He is using one handed weapon and shield. AC and EV are almost the same. I don't know if +4 ringmail was good at that point over robes or MDA. Could look at other people's games won with Halfling and see what encumberance armor most people use. Hopefully I wasn't running around permamently with -rF. It looks like I pumped int. Let's move on to spells to see if it paid off.

  Code:
   Skills:
 - Level 10.0 Fighting
 - Level 12.0 Short Blades
 - Level 5.0 Armour
 + Level 18.5 Dodging
 + Level 22.4 Stealth
 - Level 9.1 Shields
 + Level 8.0 Spellcasting
 - Level 5.1 Hexes
 - Level 14.2 Charms
 - Level 1.4 Ice Magic
 - Level 9.0 Invocations


You had 13 spell levels left.
You knew the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Control Teleport      Chrm/Tloc      ####......   10%         4    ###....
b - Blink                 Tloc           N/A          21%         2    None
c - Ensorcelled Hibernat  Hex/Ice        ####..       8%          2    None
d - Ozocubu's Armour      Chrm/Ice       ######....   1%          3    ##.....
e - Regeneration          Chrm/Necr      ####......   2%          3    ##.....
h - Haste                 Chrm           ######..     10%         6    ######.
m - Repel Missiles        Chrm/Air       ####......   1%          2    None

Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 | 19-21 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Short sword       |   101 |   185 |   334 |   954 |    59 |       |       ||  1633
       Unarmed           |       |       |     1 |       |       |       |       ||     1
       Knife             |       |       |       |       |  2479 |  2838 |  1484 ||  6801
       Dagger            |       |       |       |       |    48 |       |       ||    48
       Sabre             |       |       |       |       |    24 |   277 |   116 ||   417
 Fire: Sling             |       |    16 |    29 |     8 |     8 |     9 |       ||    70
       Blowgun           |       |       |    22 |    14 |     2 |       |       ||    38
Throw: Dart              |       |     3 |    14 |    18 |    36 |    19 |    20 ||   110
 Cast: Ensorcelled Hiber |       |       |       |       |   129 |    17 |     5 ||   151
       Repel Missiles    |       |       |       |       |    17 |    48 |    22 ||    87
       Regeneration      |       |       |       |       |    25 |   101 |    82 ||   208
       Haste             |       |       |       |       |     1 |    29 |    18 ||    48
Invok: Depart the Abyss  |     1 |       |       |       |       |       |       ||     1
       Banish            |       |     2 |    11 |    38 |    37 |     3 |    10 ||   101
       Corrupt           |       |       |       |       |     1 |     3 |       ||     4
       Enter the Abyss   |       |       |       |       |     1 |       |       ||     1
Evoke: Wand              |       |       |     1 |    16 |     6 |     6 |     4 ||    33
       Miscellaneous     |       |       |       |       |     3 |     6 |       ||     9
  Use: Scroll            |     1 |     9 |    12 |    16 |    19 |    16 |     3 ||    76
       Potion            |       |     1 |     2 |     6 |     4 |     7 |     6 ||    26
 Stab: Sleeping          |     2 |     5 |     7 |    59 |   123 |    92 |    19 ||   307
       Distracted        |       |       |     1 |     3 |     9 |     6 |       ||    19
       Confused          |       |       |       |     1 |       |       |       ||     1
       Invisible         |       |       |       |    14 |     3 |       |    10 ||    27
       Fleeing           |       |       |       |       |       |     1 |       ||     1

Haste and controlled teleport are at 10%. Regeneration and Repel missiles are ever helpful. My stealth and dodging are very high... probably would have been better to raise fighting more, and perhaps transolcations to get ctele and blink reliable. Looks like I did a fair amount of stabbing with EH, but it became much less useful as I reached vaults depth.

So, decisions I would do differently are: Raise fighting more, especially since stealth was high and becoming less useful. Same with Translocations, since I had immediately useful spells at too high failure rate. I would look at body armor choices for halfling melee fighters, and ask on forum if I couldn't find something clearly favored. Might have made sense to go robes and use Ozucobu's armor, although none of the other ice spells in those spell books look like they'd be of much use.

To finish up, let's bring it full circle back to tactics. Let's see what my last actions were, and what I had in my inventory to escape death (in addition to Lugonu's banishment):
  Code:
Evoke which item? (* to show all) (? for menu, Esc to quit)
Okay, then.
Unknown command.
Press: ? - help, v - describe, . - travel
Here: a deep troll shaman (heavily wounded, moving very quickly, unusually strong)
The floor.
Read which item? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
Okay, then.
Unknown command.
Drink which item? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
You feel better.
The deep troll shaman completely misses you.
The deep troll shaman barely misses you.
The deep troll shaman claws you.
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
Unknown command.
There is an open door, spattered with blood here.
There is an escape hatch in the ceiling here.
The deep troll shaman bites you!
You die...

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 a - the +4,+10 Spriggan's Knife {MR EV+4 Dex+4 Stlth+}
   (You found it in an ice cave)   
   
   It affects your evasion (+4).
   It affects your dexterity (+4).
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
   It makes you much more stealthy.
 l - the +4,+1 sling of Tivipn {velocity, -Cast rElec SInv Stlth+}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Orcish Mines)   
   
   Any stone fired from it inflicts extra damage.
   
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It enhances your eyesight.
   It prevents spellcasting.
   It makes you much more stealthy.
 p - the +8,+7 sabre of Vetz (weapon) {antimagic, Str+2 Dex+3}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Orcish Mines)   
   
   It disrupts the flow of magical energy around spellcasters and certain
   magical creatures (including the wielder).
   
   It affects your strength (+2).
   It affects your dexterity (+3).
 E - a +0 blowgun
 G - a +5,+4 quick blade
Missiles
 e - 18 darts (quivered)
 o - 18 sling bullets
 z - 18 poisoned needles
Armour
 b - a +0 elven buckler (worn)
 r - a +2 pair of gauntlets (worn)
 u - the +4 ring mail "Shuzxiw" (worn) {rElec SInv}
   (You found it on level 1 of the Vaults)   
   
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It enhances your eyesight.
 y - the +4 helmet "Pryfakkoics" (worn) {rC+ MR+}
   (You found it on level 20 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It protects you from cold.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
 R - a +1 pair of boots (worn)
 W - a cursed +0 cloak (worn)
Magical devices
 j - a wand of invisibility (4)
 v - a wand of draining (1)
 C - a wand of cold (2)
 H - a wand of fire (3)
 J - a wand of disintegration (4)
 K - a wand of lightning (1)
Comestibles
 m - a royal jelly
 t - 3 honeycombs
 B - 4 bread rations
 I - 2 chunks of ice dragon flesh
 T - 2 rotting chunks of centaur flesh
Scrolls
 c - 2 scrolls of amnesia
 k - 8 scrolls of identify
 q - 6 scrolls of remove curse
 s - 4 scrolls of fear
 M - 2 scrolls of fog
Jewellery
 d - a +5,+4 ring of slaying (right hand)
 f - a ring of ice (left hand)
 g - an uncursed ring of protection from fire
 x - an uncursed ring of sustain abilities
 D - an uncursed ring of protection from cold {unknown}
 S - an uncursed ring of poison resistance
Potions
 h - a potion of flight
 N - a potion of resistance
 P - a potion of restore abilities
 Q - a potion of agility


Looks like I tried to drink a healing potion and then take a step away. If I remember right I was fighting two hasted deep troll shamans where both were able to hit me. It seems I'd used up my blink scrolls. The most promising escape, besides not fighting stupidly in the first place, seems to be banishing myself, using Lugonu's blink, or maybe the wand of Invisibility. Since the troll was heavily wounded, a blast from one of the wands might have finished it as well. Note to self, don't stand out in the open fighting hasted deep trolls.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 8786

Joined: Sunday, 5th May 2013, 08:25

Post Sunday, 12th January 2014, 00:23

Re: Learning From Morgue Files

Also keep in mind that people often train skills to get a certain title, or wear -1 GDA just to confuse people who look at the morgue, etc.

Zot Zealot

Posts: 1031

Joined: Friday, 26th April 2013, 19:52

Location: AZ, USA

Post Sunday, 12th January 2014, 03:13

Re: Learning From Morgue Files

Or unequip armour and weapons and throw them at pan lords right before ascending. Fun times.

I like your thought process here. I tend to believe that there are many many viable strategies for crawl, and it's a matter of finding something that works for you. I found I improved the most by learning tactical tricks while watching other players. But it is a nice idea trying to learn from experienced players' morgue files.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 6454

Joined: Tuesday, 30th October 2012, 19:06

Post Sunday, 12th January 2014, 03:15

Re: Learning From Morgue Files

Yeah, it's not a bad idea to look at the notes section to see what *order* stuff gets trained in as well as the "ultimate results"
Spoiler: show
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Swamp Slogger

Posts: 147

Joined: Thursday, 29th August 2013, 02:22

Post Sunday, 12th January 2014, 05:19

Re: Learning From Morgue Files

i was thinking one day about how cool it would be to have a 'morgue analyzer and graphing' program for offline crawl like the charts and stuff there is for online. i love the idea of being able to look at charts and graphs and summarized info from the data in my morgue files but dislike playing online because of lag.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 2996

Joined: Tuesday, 28th June 2011, 20:41

Location: Berlin

Post Sunday, 12th January 2014, 14:21

Re: Learning From Morgue Files

Any of the players with 50 or more wins are generally a safe bet to learn from. First, decide which species you're interested in. Then, open up five or so player profiles, scroll down the list of wins, and open tabs to any winning games of the species you want in the game version you are playing. Note how many runes they got, because that can affect the end character a lot. Try to collect five or more games that look interesting.


I would stick to more recent morgues when looking at these players' wins, early wins in particular will be full of strategic mistakes. Also, a lot of these players will do things like speedrunning or whatever, which isn't useful for just winning the game. You would be best off looking at players who are streaking wins (hyperelliptic, elliptic, mikee, theglow and others have impressive examples of this, and these accounts would be the first place to look IMO, though of course some contain speedruns which you shouldn't look at). Maybe add some example names like these to the guide?

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4055

Joined: Tuesday, 10th January 2012, 19:49

Post Sunday, 12th January 2014, 23:13

Re: Learning From Morgue Files

imo you're best not trying to learn anything from jeanjacques, he is ... unique

For this message the author crate has received thanks:
duvessa

Dungeon Master

Posts: 3160

Joined: Sunday, 5th August 2012, 14:52

Post Monday, 13th January 2014, 13:55

Re: Learning From Morgue Files

moocowmoocow, in your bonus morgue you're wielding a sabre with 12 Short Blades. FWIW, sabres (and the thing they recently got renamed to, I can't recall what) are special-cased to go down to 5 AUT delay at 14 skill. Also, unless you're specifically trying to disrupt the magic of your target, you probably would have been better off hitting those monsters with your quickblade, given that you had a decent-sized slaying bonus.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 3163

Joined: Friday, 6th January 2012, 18:45

Post Monday, 13th January 2014, 16:32

Re: Learning From Morgue Files

The word you're groping for is cutlass.

Dungeon Master

Posts: 3160

Joined: Sunday, 5th August 2012, 14:52

Post Monday, 13th January 2014, 16:37

Re: Learning From Morgue Files

Right, that. Thanks.

Blades Runner

Posts: 552

Joined: Tuesday, 10th April 2012, 21:11

Post Tuesday, 14th January 2014, 04:38

Re: Learning From Morgue Files

Lasty wrote:moocowmoocow, in your bonus morgue you're wielding a sabre with 12 Short Blades. FWIW, sabres (and the thing they recently got renamed to, I can't recall what) are special-cased to go down to 5 AUT delay at 14 skill. Also, unless you're specifically trying to disrupt the magic of your target, you probably would have been better off hitting those monsters with your quickblade, given that you had a decent-sized slaying bonus.


Thanks, didn't know that. Thanks to everyone else who had comments and suggestions on the guide as well. It seemed like a good idea in my mind at the time, but looking at it now it seems unhelpful and pretentious. Oh well. Variouselite that morgue analyzer program sounds cool. Kind of like what people did for replays in Starcraft: Broodwar.

Swamp Slogger

Posts: 147

Joined: Thursday, 29th August 2013, 02:22

Post Tuesday, 14th January 2014, 05:20

Re: Learning From Morgue Files

yeah exactly! i wish i had the time and skills to write it, i feel like it would be pretty straightforward, just a lot of code. fwiw i think your idea could be pretty cool if it got fleshed/tested out a bit.

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