Ensorcelled Hibernation vs Confuse

[drag0n]

Is Confuse more likely to succeed than Ensorcelled Hibernation?
Do you get any benefit from stabbing a confused target?

The differences (did I miss any?):
- EH does not work on the undead.
- EH cannot be re-cast immediately after it wears off.
- EH may end when a stealth check fails.
- Confusion doesn't end after you hit the target.

[Kate]

Confuse has a higher power cap (but isn't any more likely to succeed at equal power). Confusion stabs do less damage than sleeping stabs.

[some12fat2move]

The differences (did I miss any?):
- EH does not work on the undead.
- EH cannot be re-cast immediately after it wears off.
- EH may end when a stealth check fails.
- Confusion doesn't end after you hit the target.

EH also does not affect anything cold resistant.

Do you get any benefit from stabbing a confused target?

Yes there is a stabbing bonus against confused targets, but as marvinPA pointed out it's less than the sleep stab bonus.

Is Confuse more likely to succeed than Ensorcelled Hibernation?

Confuse has a higher power cap (but isn't any more likely to succeed at equal power).

Yes, but you're probably not going to have equal power - confuse is pure hexes while ensorcell is hexes/ice. If your hexes level is greater than your ice magic level (extremely likely for a stabber) then confuse will have more power and therefore better success chance (unless you're using an ice enhancer).

[drag0n]

Confuse has a higher power cap (but isn't any more likely to succeed at equal power). Confusion stabs do less damage than sleeping stabs.

Is that true generally? That spells with equal power have equal chance of success?

I've been relying on EH, but I imagine hitting a confused target four times is better than stabbing a sleeping target once.

[CommanderC]

Is Confuse more likely to succeed than Ensorcelled Hibernation?

EH has an additional stepdown. If you are playing an Enchanter, Confuse will be more likely to succeed.

Most of the time, I do learn Confuse before EH.

[Magipi]

Most of the time, I do learn Confuse before EH.

How? You can learn EH on XL2, and Confuse only on XL3.

[crate]

(EH stabbing is also much better than confuse-stabbing)

[some12fat2move]

Most of the time, I do learn Confuse before EH.

How? You can learn EH on XL2, and Confuse only on XL3.

Normally if you learn EH then by the time you hit XL3 you won't have enough spell slots to learn Confuse. This is why you might save those spell slots for confuse, learn confuse at XL3, and later learn EH when you have enough spell slots for both.

[Magipi]

Normally if you learn EH then by the time you hit XL3 you won't have enough spell slots to learn Confuse.

I always found that I _do_ have enough spell slots. This is probably because I train Spellcasting in the beginning, while you do not. I have not thought of that.

[BlackSheep]

EH also does not affect demons or anything cold resistant.

Ensorcelled Hibernation works just fine on demons that aren't cold resistant. (Crimson imps are a very important example.)

[Psieye]

I imagine hitting a confused target four times is better than stabbing a sleeping target once.

With appropriate Stabbing skill training as the game progresses, sleep-stabs ought to one-shot anything. May not be true for high HP uniques, which you'd just avoid as a stabber until your Stabbing skill was good enough.

Mind, confuse is very useful for shutting up would-be alarm bots. Many squads often have exactly one mob that can Sense/See Invis. Confuse it and the rest of the squad can't be alerted to your invisible presence.

[BountyHunterSAx]

Since you're asking, I'm going to mention 'confusing touch'. It is not resisted in the same manner that confuse is (ie: by MR). Instead it's based purely on a monster's hit dice rendering several enemies immune to it, but some rather dangerous monsters quite susceptible.

In one of my more awesome runs, i unwielded my weapon (bare-hands is the only way to work it), smacked a quicksilver dragon in the face, re-wielded and stabbed him dead in one shot. The logic? Quicksilver dragons have ~150MR, so they will readily resist EH and Confuse. They can see invisible, so invisi-stabbing is not an option. As a spriggan my dodging was really *really* high, so likely to survive in melee a couple turns (with blink scroll if the unlikely should happen and i get hurt). Quicksilvers are natural and have 16 HD, so confusing touch has a: (30-16)/30 ~= 50% chance to confuse! Three slaps should virtually guarantee it. . . and then the stabs would be mine .


-AHMAD

[BountyHunterSAx]

*double post*

I also relaly want to second and emphasize what Psieye said: a single sleep stab is far more effective than two confuse stabs. And remember, each confuse attack - even if they all hit - will not necessarily result in a stab. There are seperate "tiers" of stabbing, and sleep-stabs (also paralyze) are considered tier-1. Tier-2 include confuse/invis stabs, and are about 40% less damaging on average. Tier-3 is barely a stab, it's primarily proc'd when you hit an enemy that's running away from you.

The point is, if you're keeping up stabbing training to 'appropriate' levels, you'll generally need 2-3 successful confuse stabs (not attacks) to dispatch appropriate-for-level enemies. You'll only need one to hit a sleeping enemy. And it'll be near silent.

-AHMAD