Lair Larrikin
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Joined: Tuesday, 6th November 2012, 20:31
Ask fellow adventurers how to stay alive in the deep, dark, dangerous dungeon below, or share your own accumulated wisdom.
Lair Larrikin
Posts: 27
Joined: Tuesday, 6th November 2012, 20:31
Slime Squisher
Posts: 341
Joined: Wednesday, 14th September 2011, 10:10
haagon wrote:I only play human fighter because I like to roleplay a knight. I never seem to be able to get very far though so what am i doing wrong? I normally keep my skill training set to automatic to train maces, fighting, shields, and dodging as I use them and cancel things like stabbing so I dont train them. Should I be training a different way? What skills should I emphasize on and what skills should I completely ignore? My god is also either trog or owataru (or whatever his name is the god of battle) I normally go with maces because there the only rare ones i'm ever really able to find. any help is appreciated.
Vestibule Violator
Posts: 1500
Joined: Monday, 3rd January 2011, 17:47
one_and_a_half_handed wrote: 1.5-handed gets significant penalties if you have a shield (and if you don't, why don't you use 2-handed?) and insufficient shield skill. The penalty with 0 shield skill is 1..1/3/5 to to-hit, damage and speed for bucklers/normal/large shields, respectively.
1.5 handed penalty to accuracy, damage and speed is based on -EV_penalty - (shield_skill / (5 + size_factor)). Source is player.cc line 2285; and fight.cc lines 3763, 3799, 4043, 6292.
crawl-speak for "one-handed but we like to confuse people"
long blades wrote:acc,dam,delay[hands]: falchion 2,8,13; long sword 1,10,14; scimitar -2,12,14; demon blade -1,13,13; double sword -1,15,15[1.5]; great sword -3,16,16[2]; triple sword -4,19,19[2]
maces and flails wrote:acc,dam,delay[hands]: whip 2,6,11; club 3,5,13; hammer 3,7,13; mace 3,8,14; flail 2,9,15; ankus 2,9,14; morningstar -1,10,15; demon whip 1,12,11; holy scourge 0,13,11; s. flail -2,12,16; eveningstar -1,14,15; dire flail -3,13,13[2]; g. mace -4,18,17[2]; g. club -6,20,17[2.5]; g. s. club -7,22,18[2.5]
polearms wrote:[hands](Dam,Acc,Delay): Spear[1.5] (6,4,11); Trident[1.5] (9,3,13); Demon trident[1.5] (12,1,13); Trishula[1.5] (13,0,13); Halberd[2] (13,-3,15); Scythe[2] (14,-4,20); Glaive[2] (15,-3,17); Bardiche[2] (18,-6,20)
Abyss Ambulator
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Vestibule Violator
Posts: 1500
Joined: Monday, 3rd January 2011, 17:47
crate wrote:I would not unequip your shield on turn 0 unless you're using a trident, and maybe not even then. In fact if I found a large shield on d:1 I would equip it on most fighters.
Ziggurat Zagger
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Lair Larrikin
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Vaults Vanquisher
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haagon wrote:I only play human fighter because I like to roleplay a knight.
Cocytus Succeeder
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Joined: Saturday, 14th April 2012, 21:35
crate wrote:Probably your real problem is that you are not fighting things properly. Automatic skill training does a good enough job (and it at least makes sure you don't go too far afield and train things that are completely useless!!) for you to win if you play well. If you are a character who kills things just in melee combat you need to know before you decide to fight whether you can win an engagement, and if you cannot you must not fight it ... either you flee the enemy entirely, or you flee and then try to come back with better positioning or with more resources or such. Additionally you should try to minimize the number of enemies who are aware of you at any time, so if you see a gnoll or an orc the worst thing you can do is charge at it and draw the attention of the whole pack. Instead make the gnoll or orc come to you, so most likely you can fight just one enemy instead of four or five.
crate wrote:I have used large shields at 0 skill before, they're fine. But then I'm comfortable with attacks that take a long time, perhaps many players are not.
Slime Squisher
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Vestibule Violator
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palin wrote:Please stop advising beginners to unequip shields on starting fighters, it's bad advice anyway, the shield will still block most of attacks at skill 0... and being shieldless would mean more deaths for them. If they want to play shieldless, let them choose another background.
Cocytus Succeeder
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rebthor wrote:palin wrote:Please stop advising beginners to unequip shields on starting fighters, it's bad advice anyway, the shield will still block most of attacks at skill 0... and being shieldless would mean more deaths for them. If they want to play shieldless, let them choose another background.
I advise removing them at low skill not because of blocking attacks but because of the random effect on attack speed. Starting with a handaxe or spear will cause unpredictable delay in attacks that could easily push a player from .9 aut to 1.2 aut, letting them get hit twice and killing them.
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 3037
Joined: Sunday, 2nd January 2011, 02:06
rebthor wrote:I advise removing them at low skill not because of blocking attacks but because of the random effect on attack speed. Starting with a handaxe or spear will cause unpredictable delay in attacks that could easily push a player from .9 aut to 1.2 aut, letting them get hit twice and killing them.
Slime Squisher
Posts: 341
Joined: Wednesday, 14th September 2011, 10:10
Psieye wrote:It puts a different learning curve, certainly. A 0 skill shield user who knows to always fight in corridors, knows to take off the shield if that's not possible and that certain attacks cannot be blocked with a shield (orc wizards and priests in the earlygame) won't really care about the potential for being hit twice: the shield will likely stop one if not both attacks.
Ziggurat Zagger
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Ziggurat Zagger
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Vestibule Violator
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KoboldLord wrote:rebthor wrote:I advise removing them at low skill not because of blocking attacks but because of the random effect on attack speed. Starting with a handaxe or spear will cause unpredictable delay in attacks that could easily push a player from .9 aut to 1.2 aut, letting them get hit twice and killing them.
If you are going to die if your opponent gets a double turn on you, then you should run away instead of fighting because that means you will also die if you miss.
Slime Squisher
Posts: 341
Joined: Wednesday, 14th September 2011, 10:10
rebthor wrote: I don't think many would recommend attacking with a weapon at 1.5 turns delay, so I'm not sure why to take the risk of that 1.5 turn attack coming at exactly the wrong time.
Vestibule Violator
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palin wrote:Psieye wrote:It puts a different learning curve, certainly. A 0 skill shield user who knows to always fight in corridors, knows to take off the shield if that's not possible and that certain attacks cannot be blocked with a shield (orc wizards and priests in the earlygame) won't really care about the potential for being hit twice: the shield will likely stop one if not both attacks.
Not only that, but a spear or trident user would start attacking the enemy from one square apart and that is a huge advantage even if the 0-skill fighter is going to have a 1.2 delay in the next turn. Note even that such thing as a 0-SH fighter does not exist since they start at SH3.
Ziggurat Zagger
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Cocytus Succeeder
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crate wrote:If you are going to wear a shield larger than a buckler you should just keep it equipped ... it takes too long to unequip a regular shield or larger for it to ever be useful while an enemy is chasing you. I would not take off my shield, I would just only fight things that I can beat while wearing my shield. If you don't have a two-handed weapon and you don't cast spells this is more enemies than you can beat without a shield.
Slime Squisher
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Joined: Wednesday, 14th September 2011, 10:10
rebthor wrote: They are not going to take that extra poke at the Ogre and hope that it dies, they're going to run until they can kite it better.
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