6 Questions (part two)


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Spider Stomper

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Post Thursday, 27th September 2012, 05:06

6 Questions (part two)

1. How do I change/alter Window text-box size in tiles? It probably means I need to decrease the map size which is fine. I know how to change resolution and letter size and such, but I want more room for messages, not just 9 rows. If memory serves this could be adjusted in the non-tile version?

2. When playing around with a saved game I noticed rotting mutation meat always affect you (if no mutation res.) with a bad mutation even if it´s a race that can eat rotten food safely (Troll, ghoul etc.). Is this intended?

3. Regarding item drops of off mobs; are they based on character class or character race or character level? Or a mix of them all? Like if I play a dark elf wizard, the RNG seem to drop a lot more plate mails and vice versa.

4. How much noise does the new “lightning rod” do and is it affected in any way by any skill?

5. Does reflection have effect on spells deflected? Say if you´re wearing a buckler of reflection and an Elf Mage casts Lightning Bolt on you while you´re having “deflect missiles”, can you both reflect and deflect the spell? Would that same toon with a high EV score hinder his chance to reflect incoming missiles/spells? As in, if the ranged attack is evaded, can you still block the same attack to reflect it?

6. If I understand correctly, your SH chance is affected by Skill, race, Str and/or dex. Since some races need a much higher skill to use certain shields does that also mean they (once the penalties are negated) are more efficient with it? Ex. A Kobold needs 21 Shield skill to negate penalties off of a regular sized Shield but a Naga only needs 9 with that same shield. Does that mean Kobolds are much better Shield blockers then Nagas once they have the exact shield skill needed to negate any penalties? Or say if the Kobold and Naga in the example above was using a Shield of Reflection, would it also mean the Kobold had a much higher chance of reflecting incoming missiles/spells than the Naga?

Abyss Ambulator

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Post Thursday, 27th September 2012, 06:19

Re: 6 Questions (part two)

graffen69 wrote:2. When playing around with a saved game I noticed rotting mutation meat always affect you (if no mutation res.) with a bad mutation even if it´s a race that can eat rotten food safely (Troll, ghoul etc.). Is this intended?


Yes, this is intended. Check http://crawl.chaosforge.org/index.php?title=Mutagenic

Slime Squisher

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Post Thursday, 27th September 2012, 06:51

Re: 6 Questions (part two)

graffen69 wrote:4. How much noise does the new “lightning rod” do and is it affected in any way by any skill?


All rods are affected by Evocations. Noise is fixed.
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Snake Sneak

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Post Thursday, 27th September 2012, 07:30

Re: 6 Questions (part two)

graffen69 wrote:3. Regarding item drops of off mobs; are they based on character class or character race or character level? Or a mix of them all? Like if I play a dark elf wizard, the RNG seem to drop a lot more plate mails and vice versa.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

In other words, you remember the times you find plate mails as a wizard and necronomicons as a zerker more than you remember the reverse.

The same way whenever I'm playing a DEWz and I walk past a naga barding I go "ARRRGH!", but I don't notice not finding barding even though it's far, far more common.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Thursday, 27th September 2012, 09:04

Re: 6 Questions (part two)

graffen69 wrote:5. Does reflection have effect on spells deflected? Say if you´re wearing a buckler of reflection and an Elf Mage casts Lightning Bolt on you while you´re having “deflect missiles”, can you both reflect and deflect the spell? Would that same toon with a high EV score hinder his chance to reflect incoming missiles/spells? As in, if the ranged attack is evaded, can you still block the same attack to reflect it?


Reflection only has a chance to work on spells that can be blocked by a shield, while Repel/Deflect Missiles only has a chance to work on things that have a hit roll. With respect to high-level spells, this means that pretty much only Iron Shot, Crystal Spear, and Poison Arrow are affected by both reflection and deflection. Repel/Deflect Missiles penalizes the enemy hit roll, so this does have the effect of improving your chances of successfully shield-blocking the projectile, but a dodged projectile cannot also be shield-blocked. You shouldn't worry about that, though; reflection will never be a primary source of damage for you no matter what, and you may go large chunks of the game without it ever triggering at a useful time. Think of it as a nice bonus, but not one that you can expect or rely on. Also note that reflected spells will have already used up part of their range in order to get to you, so you basically have to be at point blank to have a chance of actually hitting anything with one.

graffen69 wrote:6. If I understand correctly, your SH chance is affected by Skill, race, Str and/or dex. Since some races need a much higher skill to use certain shields does that also mean they (once the penalties are negated) are more efficient with it? Ex. A Kobold needs 21 Shield skill to negate penalties off of a regular sized Shield but a Naga only needs 9 with that same shield. Does that mean Kobolds are much better Shield blockers then Nagas once they have the exact shield skill needed to negate any penalties? Or say if the Kobold and Naga in the example above was using a Shield of Reflection, would it also mean the Kobold had a much higher chance of reflecting incoming missiles/spells than the Naga?


That 9-skill naga will have less SH than the 21-skill kobold, assuming strength and dexterity are the same, but the naga can train to 21 skill too if this was actually useful. It generally isn't, though. Once you get past the cheap low skill levels, the amount of xp that you have to sink to continue buying up shield skill quickly becomes more valuable than the SH you get from it. That 21-skill kobold is worse off than the 9-skill naga, because the oodles of xp spent on getting a skill to 21 could have been better spent on an offensive magic skill, melee weapon, or otherwise something useful.

Just so we're clear, reflection doesn't proc enough to worry about, and it never will no matter how much you try to maximize it.

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Barkeep

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Post Thursday, 27th September 2012, 13:31

Re: 6 Questions (part two)

KoboldLord wrote:Just so we're clear, reflection doesn't proc enough to worry about, and it never will no matter how much you try to maximize it.


Also, your allies and god will blame you for anything that reflects off your shield. This can be a really big surprise if you have summons who are tougher than you or your god cares who you attack. If you're really unlucky, it can be instadeath to Beoghvites while water-walking.

Essentially, if you have allies or attack conducts, reflection is worse than nothing.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Thursday, 27th September 2012, 17:33

Re: 6 Questions (part two)

Reflect and deflect missiles does not make it easier to shield-block projectiles.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Thursday, 27th September 2012, 18:55

Re: 6 Questions (part two)

crate wrote:Reflect and deflect missiles does not make it easier to shield-block projectiles.


This is at odds with what henzell says. Do you have a source?

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Thursday, 27th September 2012, 19:10

Re: 6 Questions (part two)

KoboldLord wrote:
crate wrote:Reflect and deflect missiles does not make it easier to shield-block projectiles.


This is at odds with what henzell says. Do you have a source?

Go check Wenzell's learndb, because elliptic updated it. It was never true that rmsl/dmsl made shield-blocking easier, but the old learndb entry was worded in a way that suggested (incorrectly) that it did.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Thursday, 27th September 2012, 19:17

Re: 6 Questions (part two)

Also, in beam.cc the shield check occurs before the deflection/dodge check, and the reflect check happens inside the shield check.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Thursday, 27th September 2012, 19:53

Re: 6 Questions (part two)

BlackSheep wrote:Also, in beam.cc the shield check occurs before the deflection/dodge check, and the reflect check happens inside the shield check.


Thank you, I found the passage. It looks like it is correct that SH is checked before Repel/Deflect Missiles is applied, and the learndb is incorrect. Disappointing; I'm used to expecting the bots to have information that is correct, or at least only recently outdated. I wonder what else is in there?

crate wrote:Go check Wenzell's learndb, because elliptic updated it. It was never true that rmsl/dmsl made shield-blocking easier, but the old learndb entry was worded in a way that suggested (incorrectly) that it did.


Is Wenzell accessible outside of IRC? It isn't in the 'useful links' thread in this forum, and it doesn't appear to be linked anywhere on crawl.develz.org, where I download trunk. Google didn't help either.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Thursday, 27th September 2012, 20:56

Re: 6 Questions (part two)

You can't currently access Wenzell's learndb outside of IRC. Once CAO is back up presumably Henzell will take over again and eventually the online learndb's will be updated. Alternatively you can try to get the online ones updated, but I don't know who to talk to for that.
Last edited by crate on Thursday, 27th September 2012, 21:47, edited 1 time in total.

Mines Malingerer

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Post Thursday, 27th September 2012, 23:10

Re: 6 Questions (part two)

crate wrote:You can't currently access Wenzell's learndb outside of IRC.

Um, if that is true, what does thins link point to?

https://crawl.develz.org/learndb/index.html

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Thursday, 27th September 2012, 23:15

Re: 6 Questions (part two)

Ossuary wrote:
crate wrote:You can't currently access Wenzell's learndb outside of IRC.

Um, if that is true, what does thins link point to?

https://crawl.develz.org/learndb/index.html

"Henzell's learndb"
(emphasis mine)

Spider Stomper

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Post Monday, 8th October 2012, 19:02

Re: 6 Questions (part two)

graffen69 wrote:1. How do I change/alter Window text-box size in tiles? It probably means I need to decrease the map size which is fine. I know how to change resolution and letter size and such, but I want more room for messages, not just 9 rows. If memory serves this could be adjusted in the non-tile version?

I guess this just isn´t doable in tiles?

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