Maces and Flails Progression

[mrbobbyg]

Hello all!

I have a question on M&F weapon progression.

Let's say I'm trying to make it work with an Ogre. I start as an QgWz with no melee. First thing I find is a club. Bash, bash, bash.

Where do you suggest I go next, with the assumption that I don't find a whip of electricity or something? I've been maxing M&F (100% exp, only off to get blink and conjure flame to <20%), working up to a mace. The I'm not sure what to wield until I get M&F to 16 or so and start using that GSC that is the whole motivation for playing this char. What do you all recommend?

[Pleont]

If you're starting as an OgWz, I think you should put a stronger emphasis on conjure flame's success rate, along with summon imp and mephitic cloud. Those spells are strong enough to kill most threats if used properly. Summon imp is good because crimson imps are difficult to hit, so you can use them in tight corridors to create some room to create a conjured flame barrier, along with the imps acting as a wall so enemy monsters aren't going to be hitting you with whatever nasty branded weapon or wand (e.g. polymorph) they might have on hand as they burn up within the flames. Strong monsters who are still too cowardly to step into a conjured flame can be pincered between two conjured flame clouds and then you can hit them with mephitic cloud to make them stumble to their fiery deaths.

Since skill dancing is no longer necessary, you don't really have to use a mace or flail weapon unless you happen to find one with a useful brand, or one of the rare ones that are good like the evening star or demon whip. Basically, you should get your magic skills to 1% failure, and then work on maces and flails up to 16 for the GSC unless you happen to find a spellbook with something more useful to increase your survivability than a plain old melee weapon.

My rule of thumb when using generic weapon is just focus on using the one with the highest attack power that's closest to its minimum delay. See here:
http://crawl.develz.org/info/inline.php?q=attack_delay

[crate]

A giant (spiked) club will be the best damage per aut at any maces skill level without accounting for brands/slaying, though which one of those two is better does depend on skill (giant clubs are a bit better than spiked ones from about 18-20 maces skill). In general you want to use the biggest weapon that has a delay you are comfortable with.

[Deimos]

I recommend going from mace -> morningstar -> giant club -> gsc, but what you find is going to make this different every time.

[mrbobbyg]

Thank you for the tips.

Ogres are hard to play! I've gotten a few going, but they tend to get bursted down so quickly it seems. I had Agnes kill me in 3 turns...

I'll see if this helps. Hoping for my YAVP OgWz soon!

[Stormfox]

It is wise to assume that Agnes is going to be faster than you, for most values of "you". Both in movement and attack.

[graffen69]

A giant (spiked) club will be the best damage per aut at any maces skill level without accounting for brands/slaying, though which one of those two is better does depend on skill (giant clubs are a bit better than spiked ones from about 18-20 maces skill).

Say I play an OgWi. Does that mean i should use Giant Club until i hit 21-22 (not counting any other other bonuses than pure mace skill) before changing to my Giant Spiked Club? I presume an OgWi that wish to use a 2h-Mace should put all enchant weapon scrolls on either a branded Great Mace (like Protection or Holy) or a Giant Spiked Club so they can start using them earlier then skill 21-22?

[cerebovssquire]

If you train only Maces&Flails once the level 3 conjurations are castable, as you should, you will hit 22 maces (GSC min delay and when you turn it off) by Lair entrance or early Lair. You won't have many enchant scrolls by then. But yes, enchant the GSC.

[graffen69]

If you train only Maces&Flails once the level 3 conjurations are castable, as you should, you will hit 22 maces (GSC min delay and when you turn it off) by Lair entrance or early Lair. You won't have many enchant scrolls by then. But yes, enchant the GSC.

Whoa, that’s fast allright. Makes me wonder just how fast +4 Skill Races can get up there(Mf,Ha,DE etc.)
Heck, i´m gonna give a HaHu a go focus all on Sling and see how fast he can hit those levels

Out of curiosity, was there ever any PC-race in any version having +5 in a skill?

[Deimos]

Naga have +5 stealth.

[crate]

A giant (spiked) club will be the best damage per aut at any maces skill level without accounting for brands/slaying, though which one of those two is better does depend on skill (giant clubs are a bit better than spiked ones from about 18-20 maces skill).

Say I play an OgWi. Does that mean i should use Giant Club until i hit 21-22 (not counting any other other bonuses than pure mace skill) before changing to my Giant Spiked Club? I presume an OgWi that wish to use 2h-Mace should put all enchant weapon scrolls on either a branded Great Mace (like Protection or Holy) or a Giant Spiked Club so they can start using them earlier then skill 21-22?

Giant spiked clubs are better than giant clubs at less than 18 skill also, it is only at those specific values of maces skill that giant clubs are better.

[graffen69]

Naga have +5 stealth.

Nods, i meant +5 in any attack skill - as in weapon skill, ranged skill or spellschool?