EE - Where have you been all my lives

[bobross419]

I've played a few EE in the past, but I was always dismally disappointed by them... Sandblast seems like a shit spell, even with 100 stones in my hand its short range and a seemingly huge chance to miss makes me rather just use melee. Most of my past EE died by D:2 and I gave it up as shit.

For a change of pace I decided to give an OpEE a try and man oh man did I underestimate EE. Sandblast is still shit (seriously, how the fuck is this a worthwhile spell? someone please explain), but Passwall is an awesome escape spell that I'd have to say is better than Blink (uncontrolled blink seems more likely to put me in the shit than out of the shit). Stone Arrow is a solid nuke and pretty inexpensive to use, but I'd have to say that I'm in love with LRD.

I'm just curious about how to get the most out of an EE. I'm going with Veh for guaranteed LCS, but my end goal is to finally give Shatter a try.

And how the hell do I use Sandblast so it does blow?

[Blade]

Sandblast is really strong with stones. Without stones, yeah, it's terrible; with them, it's one of the most powerful level 1 spells. Just position yourself to make use of its short range. I don't know really what I can say to convince you that it's good other than "it does a lot of damage" ... but really, it does a lot of damage.

[A spy]

Sandblast applies AC three times though, so it might not do a lot of damage on an orc wearing chain mail or plate armour (use stone arrow instead)

[rchandra]

Sif Muna should grant Iron Shot/LCS/Shatter relatively quickly since there aren't that many earth books. You can probably also find some and acquire the last one, but no guarantees on that - mostly this is good if you want a different god, like Makawaru.

For powering up an EE, train more earth than the alternate skills (such as conjurations/transmutations) because of stoneskin and LRD.

[XuaXua]

EE used to be a bit more overpowered when LRD penetrated everything.

[BlackSheep]

You can also Petrify an enemy and then target it with LRD to blast everything around it.

[bobross419]

I've had problems with Gnolls and stuff against sandblast... I have about 100 stones in hand, but it misses... all the damn time.

Also, I almost killed myself when I actually blew up a rock wall with LRD (didn't know it could do that!) and the chunks flew a tad farther than I was used to lol.

[bobross419]

Right now I've got all my starting spells except Petrify (gonna get that memmed now that I know I can blow them up lol) at <2%, just working on Spellcasting at the moment to get the hunger on LRD down then I'll probably go back to Earth in preparation for Iron Shot. Thanks for the advice so far guys.

[Stormfox]

Learn which enemies are brittle and thus vulnerable to LRD without Petrify. Most monsters that are primarily mineral (bone, rock/stone, metal) are, but there are a few exceptions. Ice beasts count too. (EDIT: Derp. Forget what I said about Roxanne, I was indeed thinking about disintegration.)

Don't stand too close to green crystal walls.

[cerebovssquire]

Post 3 minutes ago
Learn which enemies are brittle and thus vulnerable to LRD without Petrify. Most monsters that are primarily mineral (bone, rock/stone, metal) are, but there are a few exceptions (Roxanne for starters). Ice beasts count too.

You're mixing something up here. Roxanne is LRD-able for very high damage. She isn't, however, affected by disintegration.

[rebthor]

Right now I've got all my starting spells except Petrify (gonna get that memmed now that I know I can blow them up lol) at <2%, just working on Spellcasting at the moment to get the hunger on LRD down then I'll probably go back to Earth in preparation for Iron Shot. Thanks for the advice so far guys.

I've found Iron Shot to be much more useful overall than LCS due to the decreased mana cost and the increased range. On a per MP basis, iron shot is actually more efficient unless you have Vehumet in which case their efficiency is effectively the same, but you still gain the range for iron shot too which means you can hit everything in LOS.

From the bot:

Iron shot ... 9d18 at full power.
LCS 10d22 at max power, theoretically, and unresistable. The strongest single target conjuration, but its range is one square less than that of Iron Shot.

[bobross419]

Good to know rebthor... I've never actually used Iron Shot before. Most of my casters just went with OOD or Poison Arrow for a single target nuke then moved on to LCS. Only time I've ever even trained Earth up at all was on a HEFE that had already maxed Conj, Fire, Air, 20+Ice, and just scumming pan so I could try my hand at Zigs lol

Well my OpEE died to an Orc Warlord throwing axes at him... LRD didn't do shit. Going to give the EE another try with something that has better aptitudes after lunch. Any recommendations? I do like the near instant hungerless that HE get, so thats definitely a possibility.

[smock]

DDEE of Mahkleb is surely the strongest EE.

Re LRD, if you train Earth high enough you can get through most any armour. LRD has great range, too. You'll get in a few LRDs before you'd be in Iron Shot range. But, yea, orc warlords will be nasty until you have a very high Earth skill.

[A spy]

LRD has the same 3xAC drawback as Sandblast (and Orc Warlords tend to wear heavy armour).
EDIT : what smock said

[bobross419]

I'm not really a huge fan of DD... I like simple and straightforward and even though they are pretty strong generally the DD don't mesh all that well with me What about DE or SE? Both have decent Earth apts.

[rebthor]

SEEE was one of my few wins.

LRD use to be amazing because you could do things like close doors and destruct walls which would still kill things inside. This was clutch in the vaults.

[bobross419]

Cool I'll give the SEEE a try. I was a bit disappointed that I could LRD to the other side of a wall, but even in its current state its pretty powerful and I'm pretty happy with it... except of course against Orc Warlord lol.

[crate]

LCS is more mp-efficient than iron shot unless you have vehumet, in which case iron shot is better (LCS does 33% more damage and costs 33% more MP, but LCS will be affected by AC slightly less since it deals more damage to begin with).

Stoneblast does the damage of a level 3 spell for 1 mp. It is very good at high spellpower, just not against things with good AC.

[bobross419]

Cruising along pretty good with the SEEE, cleared Lair and Orc, now moving deeper into D. Unfortunately I got stuck with some pretty crappy mutations very early (D:2 I think - Deriorating, Slow Heal, and something else bad)... No !CureMut yet And I'm out of Restore Abilities... Tried quaffing a few !Mut hoping to get rid of Deteriorate but just end up with more shit

Anyways, how come I can't LRD large rocks? Seems like something you should be able to blow up with LRD.

[TehDruid]

Unfortunately I got stuck with some pretty crappy mutations very early (D:2 I think - Deriorating, Slow Heal, and something else bad)... No !CureMut yet And I'm out of Restore Abilities... Tried quaffing a few !Mut hoping to get rid of Deteriorate but just end up with more shit

After a certain point I learned to not quaff-ID pots. Perhaps you should do that too. After you clear the first few floors you'll notice some big stacks of pots (6-7) which tend to be curing most of the time.

[bobross419]

OMG... I died to about the stupid shit I've ever done...

  Code:

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.10.2 character file.

185776 Joe Dirt the Metallomancer (level 18, -21/100 HPs)
             Began as a Sludge Elf Earth Elementalist on May 31, 2012.
             Was the Champion of Vehumet.
             Killed themselves with bad targeting (73 damage)
             ... on Level 3 of the Vaults on June 1, 2012.
             The game lasted 03:50:43 (55567 turns).

Joe Dirt the Metallomancer (SEEE)                  Turns: 55567, Time: 03:50:43

HP -21/100       AC 10     Str  8      XL: 18   Next: 78%
MP  30/41        EV 16     Int 26 (28) God: Vehumet [******]
Gold 2578        SH 13     Dex 13 (15) Spells: 12 memorised,  3 levels left

Res.Fire  : . . .   See Invis. : .    a - staff of earth
Res.Cold  : . . .   Warding    : . .  v - +2 robe {Archmagi}
Life Prot.: . . .   Conserve   : .    K - +2 elf buckler
Res.Acid. : . . .   Res.Corr.  : .    f - +0 helmet
Res.Poison: .       Clarity    : .    l - +0 orc cloak
Res.Elec. : .       Spirit.Shd : .    n - +0 pair of dwarf gauntlets
Sust.Abil.: . .     Stasis     : .    e - +2 pair of boots {Lev}
Res.Mut.  : .       Ctrl.Telep.: .    B - amulet of the gourmand
Res.Rott. : .       Levitation : .    J - ring of Uranac {MR Str+2 Int+4 Dam+5}
Gourmand  : +       Ctrl.Flight: .    s - ring of wizardry

@: very resistant to hostile enchantments, fairly stealthy
A: hooves 1, deterioration 1, fast metabolism 1, -10% hp, mutation resistance 1,
slow healing 1, spit poison 2, Str -2, Dex -1
a: Spit Poison, Renounce Religion, Evoke Levitation


You were on level 3 of the Vaults.
You worshipped Vehumet.
Vehumet was exalted by your worship.
You were not hungry.

You visited 5 branches of the dungeon, and saw 34 of its levels.
You visited 1 Labyrinth.
You visited 1 bazaar.
You visited 2 portal chambers: ice cave, trove.

You collected 3070 gold pieces.
You spent 512 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Armour
e - a +2 pair of boots of levitation (worn)
f - a +0 helmet (worn)
l - a +0 orcish cloak (worn)
n - a +0 pair of dwarven gauntlets (worn)
v - a +2 robe of the Archmagi (worn)
K - a +2 elven buckler (worn)
Magical devices
c - a wand of teleportation (9)
u - a wand of disintegration (13)
H - a wand of hasting (9)
Comestibles
o - a pear
L - 2 honeycombs
O - 2 bread rations
T - 13 sultanas
Scrolls
b - 5 scrolls of detect curse
g - a scroll of remove curse
i - a scroll of vulnerability
j - 4 scrolls of fog
p - 3 scrolls of teleportation
A - 2 scrolls of blinking
F - a scroll of fear
Q - a scroll of enchant weapon III
S - 3 scrolls of enchant weapon I
Jewellery
r - an uncursed ring of see invisible
s - a ring of wizardry (left hand)
t - a +2 ring of strength {unknown}
w - an uncursed amulet of warding {unknown}
y - an uncursed ring of protection from magic
z - an uncursed amulet of conservation
B - an amulet of the gourmand (around neck)
C - the amulet of the Four Winds {Clar rN+ MR}
   (You found it in a treasure trove)   
   
   [amulet of clarity]
   
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It increases your resistance to enchantments.
D - an uncursed ring of teleport control
E - an uncursed amulet of inaccuracy {unknown}
G - an uncursed ring of see invisible
I - an uncursed ring of protection from fire {unknown}
J - the ring of Uranac (right hand) {MR Str+2 Int+4 Dam+5}
   (You found it in a treasure trove)   
   
   [ring of protection from magic]
   
   It affects your strength (+2).
   It affects your intelligence (+4).
   It affects your damage-dealing abilities (+5).
M - an uncursed ring of fire {unknown}
N - a +3 ring of strength {unknown}
P - an uncursed ring of protection from cold {unknown}
Potions
h - 3 potions of heal wounds
k - a potion of resistance
m - a potion of might
q - a potion of speed
x - 3 potions of magic
U - a potion of brilliance
Magical staves
a - a staff of earth (weapon)


   Skills:
- Level 8.1 Fighting
- Level 11.2 Staves
- Level 7.8 Dodging
- Level 2.2 Stealth
- Level 5.0 Shields
+ Level 19.8 Spellcasting
- Level 5.0 Conjurations
- Level 1.3 Transmutations
* Level 23.5 Earth Magic


You had 3 spell levels left.
You knew the following spells:

Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Sandblast             Erth           #######      0%          1    None
b - Passwall              Erth/Trmt      #########.   1%          3    None
c - Stone Arrow           Erth/Conj      #######      0%          3    None
d - Petrify               Erth/Trmt      #########    1%          4    None
e - Lee's Rapid Deconstr  Erth           #########.   0%          5    None
f - Blink                 Tloc           N/A          1%          2    None
g - Iron Shot             Erth/Conj      #########.   1%          6    Strawberry
h - Lehudib's Crystal Sp  Erth/Conj      #########.   4%          8    Honeycomb
i - Swiftness             Air/Chrm       #####.....   1%          2    None
j - Shatter               Erth           #########.   2%          9    Ration
k - Dig                   Erth/Trmt      #########    1%          4    None
l - Statue Form           Erth/Trmt      #########.   1%          6    Strawberry


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (18/27)            Temple (1/1) D:6             Orc (4/4) D:10
    Elf (0/5) Orc:3          Lair (8/8) D:12         Shoals (0/5) Lair:4
  Slime (0/6) Lair:6        Snake (0/5) Lair:4        Vault (3/8) D:17
Crypt: Vault:2-4   

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Sif Muna
The Shining One
Trog
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
Beogh
Jiyva

Shops:
D:4: =  D:6: ?  D:8: /  D:11: *  D:12: *  D:17: *  Orc:2: *  Orc:4: %/*((


                    Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You have large cloven feet.*
You are clumsy (Dex -1).
Your body is slowly deteriorating.
You have a fast metabolism.
You are frail (-10% HP).
You are somewhat resistant to further mutation.
You heal slowly.
You can spit moderately strong poison.
You are weak (Str -2).


Message History

The warrior statue hits you with a runed dwarven battleaxe!
The warrior statue burns you. You block the warrior statue's attack.
Casting: Lee's Rapid Deconstruction
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
Aiming: Lee's Rapid Deconstruction
Press: ? - help, Dir - move target cursor, f - warrior statue
Fragment what (e.g. wall or brittle monster)?: a warrior statue, wielding a dwarven battleaxe of flaming (heavily damaged)
You feel a strong surge of power! The warrior statue shatters!
You blow up the warrior statue!
You feel your power returning. The blast of rock fragments hits you!
Casting: Lee's Rapid Deconstruction
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
Aiming: Lee's Rapid Deconstruction
Press: ? - help, Dir - move target cursor, f - warrior statue
Fragment what (e.g. wall or brittle monster)?: a warrior statue, wielding a runed battleaxe
You feel a strong surge of power! The warrior statue shatters!
You blow up the warrior statue!
You feel your power returning. The blast of rock fragments hits you!
Ouch! That really hurt!
You die...

#.##....#
..#.....#
..#.....#
..#...(.#
........#
........#
.......)#####
......)...#)#
.......)##@#
........#)#)#
........## #.#
##.....#   #..
  ......#    ###
   .....#
    ....#
       .


There were no monsters in sight!


Yep... I got over excited blowing up warrior statues in the statue vault and killed myself lol... Worst part it is did it twice in a row and after the first one I thought "Why did I take damage? WTF, oh well, [z]-[e]-[f]"

Oh well, it was super fun and I'll try another one out probably tomorrow. Thanks for all the advice on running EE you guys.

[Deimos]

I got to Shoals with my DDEE... but at that point I felt really weak. Stone Arrow gets pretty weak when you get down far enough. I started using Iron Shot, but after 4-5 casts I'd be hungry and out of MP. I'll give it another try some day.

[crate]

My DDEEs tend to wear heavy armour unless i get a book with iron shot very early, and then I start tabbing dudes and casting LRD with 40 AC.

[Southpaw]

DDEEs with a staff of earth can also tab through lots of stuff in heavy armor, it's quite effective once you have the exp to spare to train the requisite skills.

Don't LRD Beogh statues (Orc Idols and the like) Beogh will smite you and it really hurts, I've lost a strong DDEE that way. Also, don't forget that you can throw large rocks against a wall and break them down into rocks which you can use for sandblast, it's quite handy in order to keep a decent stock of rocks around.

[BlackSheep]

Also, don't forget that you can throw large rocks against a wall and break them down into rocks which you can use for sandblast, it's quite handy in order to keep a decent stock of rocks around.

This is being removed in trunk.

[bobross419]

How does Shatter stack up against the other big 3? I always see mention of Fire Storm and Tornado only a little about Ice Storm and not much about Shatter

[XuaXua]

How does Shatter stack up against the other big 3? I always see mention of Fire Storm and Tornado only a little about Ice Storm and not much about Shatter

Shatter is good, but IMHO it is the most limited of the four as it requires proper target placement and does not persist.

[BlackSheep]

Shatter allows for different tactics that aren't supported by the other spells. Since you can radically deform the walls of a level, you can circumvent many vault designs.

[rebthor]

How does Shatter stack up against the other big 3? I always see mention of Fire Storm and Tornado only a little about Ice Storm and not much about Shatter

Shatter is good, but IMHO it is the most limited of the four as it requires proper target placement and does not persist.

Shatter's benefit is that it hits everything in LoS that's not flying and not a slime. It also can make certain areas less difficult - especially branch ends and tomb - since you can sequence break. It's also single school, so you don't need high conj+high element like you do with the storms.
Downsides include the lack of damage to flying things, which is much of the demons and dragons and the fact that it no longer damages creatures on the other side of the wall unless the wall is knocked down.

[KoboldLord]

Shatter's also quite a bit cheaper to get online. A character with middling aptitudes can easily have it at minimal chance of failure by the time they want to clear Snake/Swamp/Shoals/Spider/Vaults/Elf, and it performs rather well in those places. Getting Fire Storm or Ice Storm online by that point is a much more difficult feat for anybody short of a deep elf with stacked wizardry. Works great in Tomb, too, for certain values of 'great' that are very tolerant of high-powered death curses that come in rapid succession. So maybe not so good in Tomb.

[crate]

Shatter is super effective against walls, that's where it wins compared to the other level 9 spells.