Invocations level for Sif

[Konebred]

Just curious what a good invoc levels for sif muna is. I have 9 right now and the mana return is only like 1-2. Is there any sort of list with the returns per level anywhere?

[Deimos]

Sif channeling doesn't really give much mana. You just do it nonstop. 9 invo will probably be fine for most chars. If youre undead, then you could go for a little more, but thats pretty much what you'll be seeing.

[moocowmoocow]

Here's the knowledgebot entry: Sif power 60+INT+inv %, 100-300 hunger, d(2+inv/4) mp

I'm a bit confused by the % part, but seems like every four levels of invo starting from level 2 would yield one more to the max roll.

[absolutego]

that's just the success rate: (60+intelligence+invocations skill)/100.

[Patashu]

Just curious what a good invoc levels for sif muna is. I have 9 right now and the mana return is only like 1-2. Is there any sort of list with the returns per level anywhere?

On average you get 0.5 more sp per channel per 4 invo levels, so the return on investment is really low. Get invo to like 4 or 8 and come back to it only after you have everything else you possibly want (including fighting, dodging and the ability to use some kind of melee weapon, in case of silent spectres)

[evilmike]

The numbers sound low but I recommend training it. You will notice the improvement... even though the numbers remain small, at a certain point you'll be channeling 2x or 3x faster than at the base rate. I've maxed invocations before, but usually I stop at around 12 or 16.

You don't *need* to train it at all, but it makes your channeling go faster. This means less food and (more importantly) you can get back from 0 mp quicker, if you screw up and need emergency MP. Also, if you plan on sticking with sif long-term (that is, after you have all the spells you want), you might as well get the most out of it. Channeling can be a character-defining ability, but you're kind of wasting it if you don't train invocations.

I'd recommend a minimum of 8 invocations, since this will give you twice as much as you get at 0, and 8 skill is cheap. 12 is better.

[sir_laser]

Just stop training invo. at a multiple of 4 (4, 8, 12, 16, etc.). Mummies can stop @ 4 since they've got practically unlimited time, but other species will probably want to train it higher. Also:

For reference, merely resting will recover 14+maxMP per 600 nutrition, at standard metabolic rates.

[Blade]

Invocations gives smooth benefits for Sif now. The "stop at multiples of 4" used to be good advice, but it no longer applies.

[sir_laser]

When was this changed?

[BlackSheep]

Probably when, or shortly after, they implemented fractional skill levels.

[Sapher]

I'd recommend a minimum of 8 invocations, since this will give you twice as much as you get at 0, and 8 skill is cheap. 12 is better.

1d4 is not twice as much as 1d2.
1d4 gives 2,5 on average
1d2 gives 1,5 on average

twice as much would be 1d5 or invocation at 12

[Hix]

It's good to make people aware that 1d4 is not twice as big as 1d2, but when you take the fail chance of the invocation into account, it turns out that it really takes somewhat less than 12 Invocations skill to double your mana gain per channel attempt.


For example, with an INT of 20 (Achieved, for reference, at XL 3 by a Deep Elf Conjurer or at XL 15 by a Human Conjurer) and no skill in Invocations, you get 1d2 only 80% of the time, for an expected gain of 1.2 per channel attempt.

With 9.46 Invocations, you get 1d4.365 with a success rate of 89.46%, which averages to 2.4 per attempt (double what you get with 0 skill)