Can't seem to win


Ask fellow adventurers how to stay alive in the deep, dark, dangerous dungeon below, or share your own accumulated wisdom.

Snake Sneak

Posts: 105

Joined: Friday, 6th June 2014, 22:20

Post Wednesday, 13th January 2021, 20:32

Can't seem to win

Hello everyone,

Is the game significantly harder or have my skills dropped over the versions? I seem to get teleported, held, marked etc and die. I wanted a win during the tournament but it seems much harder even with Hill orc as the death's I experience have little to do with HP but stuff like flay.

On the verge of hanging up the game, either my skills have dropped or the game is getting harder. It feels that death is fairly random now. The lack of random deaths was one of the things I liked about DCSS. I am sure this has been considered but rather than having random effects kill players like the TOMB, which I hate, use higher damages and more powerful monsters.

Thank you.

Tomb Titivator

Posts: 891

Joined: Thursday, 16th August 2018, 21:19

Post Wednesday, 13th January 2021, 21:21

Re: Can't seem to win

Some things get harder, some things get easier.
Big thing for me was the removal of mp channelling. But throwing has been even more busted ever since they reworked javelins and darts.

It might be worth playing a "weak" character, just so it'll force you to play more carefully. Sometimes it's easier to win that way.

Playing with a mace instead of an axe can have that effect, as can playing an mp-reliant character, or a DD^Ely.

Slime Squisher

Posts: 361

Joined: Thursday, 11th April 2013, 21:07

Post Wednesday, 13th January 2021, 21:48

Re: Can't seem to win

sage1234 wrote:It feels that death is fairly random now.

It isn't.

Several players are currently maintaining >75% winrates in the 0.26 t.

https://crawl.develz.org/tournament/0.26/win-rate.html

(Most players won't ever reach this kind of winrate, but that's always been the case.)

Swamp Slogger

Posts: 142

Joined: Friday, 13th December 2019, 01:33

Post Wednesday, 13th January 2021, 22:57

Re: Can't seem to win

My experience, for what it's worth, is that the last version or two have been easier; though I'm not quite sure why.

Snake Sneak

Posts: 105

Joined: Friday, 6th June 2014, 22:20

Post Thursday, 14th January 2021, 00:31

Re: Can't seem to win

Thanks everyone,

I think my next step is to watch some games specially around zot and the tomb to see how people deal with the randomness of those area's. For now I am going to chalk this up to a lack of knowledge and good play. One of things I could do on Zot is where a ring of -tele, seems like that would help the random teleportation's. Another thing I could do is make more noise to lure the monsters to my position. I need to find ways to prevent "random" deaths. There might even be a way to deal with flay.

Thanks again.

Swamp Slogger

Posts: 142

Joined: Friday, 13th December 2019, 01:33

Post Thursday, 14th January 2021, 01:16

Re: Can't seem to win

Ok, Tomb has gotten much harder, or at least such is my understanding; I haven't tried it in years quite frankly. Zot --- I guess the new version of traps does increase one's odds of being marked in the Z:5 vault. One of the best uses of potions of cancellation IMO.

Dungeon Master

Posts: 358

Joined: Monday, 18th August 2014, 20:04

Post Thursday, 14th January 2021, 01:33

Re: Can't seem to win

sage1234 wrote:There might even be a way to deal with flay.


I think this kind of thread goes much easier with some morgues, but flay in particular hasn't changed in a very long time, so I'm not sure the tactics for it are very new: kill the flayed ghost asap, retreat so you are not engaging multiple things at the same time as a flayed ghost, etc. (And flay is very much about HP!)

The current state of traps is probably more aggressive than many versions about forcing the player to address tactical situations that you might not choose to be in (though, see shadow traps). But very few of these situations should be unavoidable or instant death. Tomb though is currently the hardest content in the game and will challenge nearly any character, including some that otherwise can overwhelm most extended content.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 5335

Joined: Friday, 25th November 2011, 07:36

Post Monday, 18th January 2021, 17:21

Re: Can't seem to win

One of the easiest solutions to flay happens to be the easiest solution to all of Dungeon Crawl: Statue Form. It's immune to flay. If you have been flayed, going into statue form will also remove all existing flay.

As far as the game getting much harder or not, I'd say it's about the same. The only major increase was the removal of stairs from Tomb, which I will grant makes Tomb much harder, but that isn't a concern for most 3 rune games or newbies getting started. It does make finishing all 15 runes less of a sure thing, even after surviving to the point where you have 3 runes. It used to be that extended was very safe; I'd say I beat it around 90% of the times I attempted, starting from a 3 rune character. Now it's something quite a bit less than that, but I haven't really done a large enough sample of 15 rune games to have a solid %. I know I've lost at least two 14 rune characters in tomb out of only like 10-15 characters who went for 15 runes since the change, so it certainly isn't 90% anymore, maybe something around 60-75%? I could probably get it back up if I was more careful, but hey...
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Tomb Titivator

Posts: 845

Joined: Monday, 31st January 2011, 23:19

Post Yesterday, 06:42

Re: Can't seem to win

The game has gotten harder over time, especially in extended. The traps in zot are pretty stupid also.

If you play perfectly you usually win regardless, so the really good players will say the game is easier. For everyone else the powerful tools keep getting removed and decision trees keep getting more complex.

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