grinrain wrote:Still playing with Troll fighter. Once I get Invocation to 8, do I need to worry about changing what I am learning? Just leave fighting/uc/throwing/armor/dodge/shielding on and let it ride?
From a bigger picture perspective, think about whether you want to be primarly a thrower or primarily UC; whichever you choose should get the biggest share of your exp. Either way, fighting should get the 2nd biggest share. All the others you mentioned should get a small share. If you have good evocables like wand of enslavement, fan of gales, or sack of spiders, then I suggest putting evocations in the small share category too.
grinrain wrote:PS: Am I doing something wrong? Have cleared dungeon 1-15. Lair, Orc, and was about to head to do a branch. But only shoals and Slime show, no spider/snake?
The lair must contain either spider or snake. Most likely, there is some level that autoexplore wasn't able to fully explore due to plants or steam clouds in the way.
grinrain wrote:PSS: Still wish I understood UC better. Would like to believe some artifact weapons would be better, but no way to compare.
A big-picture summary is that UC without forms or claws is weaker than weapons unless you max it out (which is not typically worthwhile since maxing a skill is a huge amount of experience), but UC with claws is never really weak and is actually quite strong for most of the game.
Some comparisons to illustrate this:
1 UC, your punch has a base damage of 4, like a +0 dagger - quite bad.
10 UC, your punch has a base damage of 13, like a +0 scimitar at equal weapon skill - a bit bad for that point in the game.
20 UC, your punch has a base damage of 23, like a +0 lajatang (or +2ish eveningstar) at equal weapon skill - pretty bad for that point in the game.
27 UC, your punch has a base damage of 30, like a +0 giant club (or +9ish eveningstar) at equal weapon skill - at this point UC's uncapped attack speed is now 40% faster than the comparison (whereas in all previous it was less than 12% faster); this 40% damage boost is better than any eveningstar brand except possibly vampiric or antimagic, so UC has finally gotten good for a one-handed weapon. The problem is that it took 27 skill levels to get here, which is a massive investment. A 3-rune character would typically invest 10-20 skill levels.
When you have claws, each level of claws provides +2 to unarmed base damage, so a total of +6 base damage for claws 3 (which trolls have). Claws 3 changes the above comparisons dramatically:
1 UC, your punch has base damage 10, like a +0 flail with equal weapon skill - a great starting weapon, AND UC's relatively fast base attack speed makes it about 40% faster.
10 UC, your punch has a base damage of 19, like a +0 lajatang (or +1ish eveningstar) at equal weapon skill - a pretty good weapon at that point in the game.
20 UC, your punch has a base damage of 29, like a +1ish giant club (or +10ish eveningstar) at equal weapon skill - this is not super impressive but it's decent for one-handed weapons at that point in the game.
27 UC, your punch has a base damage of 36. This would hit like a +0 weapon with 23 base damage (does not exist), or like a +17ish eveningstar, and at this point we've once again gotten about 40% faster attack speed, so it's pretty insane.
If you want mathematical detail, search
the knowledge bots for "damage", it will provide two links that summarize the formulas, and you will see how weapon vs unarmed damage are calculated.
edit: Thanks duvessa for the fact check, I updated the summary above, old one is in spoiler
A big-picture summary is that UC scales better with skill investment than melee weapons do; it starts out a bit weak but eventually surpasses weapons.
Some comparisons to illustrate this: at 1 UC, your punch has a base damage of 4, like a +0 dagger - quite bad. At 10 UC, your punch has a base damage of 13, like a +0 morningstar - a bit bad for that point in the game. At 20 UC, your punch has a base damage of 23, which is literally more than any weapon in the game except Dark Maul, although some big weapons can still compete (if you had equal weapon skill) due to slaying, brands, and reach / cleave. At 27 UC, your punch has a base damage of 30, while swinging at the minimum delay of a dagger, and any non-artifact melee weapon (and 99.9% of artifact weapons) just cannot compete.
When you have claws, UC becomes much better at ALL levels, so that its start is not weak, and its end is even stronger. Each level of claws provides +2 to unarmed base damage, so a total of +6 base damage for claws 3 (which trolls have). Claws 3 changes the above comparisons, so that at UC 1 your punch has base damage 10, like a +0 flail - a great starting weapon. At 10 UC, your punch has a base damage of 19, just one less than a +0 giant club - a pretty good weapon at that point in the game. At 20 UC, your punch has a base damage of 29, which is just one less than the max UC god without claws. At 27 UC your punch has a base damage of 36.