Reflection optimisation

[mopl]

Suppose you have a big shield, let's imagine large one , maybe TSO bonus, and an amulet of reflection, making you reflect a bunch of projectiles (40+ SH).

You also have the ability to Rmsl or even Dmsl yourself.

How does those interact with reflection ? Which triggers first ? Could it be a good idea to drop Rmsl in order to reflect more projectiles ?

Furthermore, imagine I never get into melee range (like FoHu using crossbow), is it a good bet to keep low EV ? like dodge less, reflect more ?

[duvessa]

Could it be a good idea to drop Rmsl in order to reflect more projectiles ?

No.

[Siegurt]

Could it be a good idea to drop Rmsl in order to reflect more projectiles ?

No.

To expand on this, making yourself take more damage just means you get less attack actions of your own before you have to flee.

Player attacks are more powerful than monster attacks so sacrificing your own attacking power in order to get a chance of reflecting a monster's worse attack back at them is always a bad exchange.

And that doesn't even get into the added risk you take for every point you are below max hps, every attack that does damage has the deficit beyond itself of leaving you in a riskier state until you can rest up.

"Making reflection better" should never be done at the expense of your own hp bar.

[TheInsanity556]

Reflection much like ripost is more like a cherry on top of a sundae. Its a minor benefit to an action rather then a major point of consideration most of the time.

[VeryAngryFelid]

Could it be a good idea to drop Rmsl in order to reflect more projectiles ?

Yes, when you have Death's Door active
Also it may be optimal for overpowered characters like Ds with powered by death 3, robust 3, Makhleb and crazy AC.

[Fingolfin]

Could it be a good idea to drop Rmsl in order to reflect more projectiles ?

Yes, when you have Death's Door active
Also it may be optimal acceptable for overpowered characters like Ds with powered by death 3, robust 3, Makhleb and crazy AC.

FIFY

[VeryAngryFelid]

Since SH is applied before EV we are talking about replacing amulet of Air with amulet of reflection.
If your EV is 0, RMsl is useless so shielding is obviously better.
Extra SH can partially compensate losing extra EV and RMsl while reflection alone can kill the monster so I believe optimal is correct word here.

[Fingolfin]

Since SH is applied before EV we are talking about replacing amulet of Air with amulet of reflection.

First I don't see how the second part of this sentence is a consequence of the first part.
Second the OP doesn't specify that we're talking about the amulet of the Air, or that we're choosing rMsl OR reflect. We could be talking dMsl spell or scarves.

[VeryAngryFelid]

Reflection does not care about dmsl/rmsl because happens before ev roll. OP asks if it is a good idea to remove dmsl/rmsl to increase chance of reflection. The only way to increase chance of reflection is to increase SH value. So if there is a choice between extra sh and rmsl/dmsl, we can assume it is about amulets. Another possibilty could be large shield which makes dmsl uncastable but then nothing prevents you from equipping the shield after casting dmsl.

[Siegurt]

Reflection does not care about dmsl/rmsl because happens before ev roll. OP asks if it is a good idea to remove dmsl/rmsl to increase chance of reflection. The only way to increase chance of reflection is to increase SH value. So if there is a choice between extra sh and rmsl/dmsl, we can assume it is about amulets. Another possibilty could be large shield which makes dmsl uncastable but then nothing prevents you from equipping the shield after casting dmsl.

You've misinterpreted the original question, he's wondering if he should remove rmsl so that *it never fires* so he has more incoming ranged attacks which could be blocked and therefore reflected. This isn't about increasing SH at all.

[njvack]

Unless I'm misunderstanding, VAF is saying:

* Reflection is based on SH and fires at SH check time
* SH check happens before EV check
* r/dMsl fires at EV check time
* Therefore, changing r/dMsl status cannot alter reflection chance

[VeryAngryFelid]

Exactly. And then I replied at "Could it be a good idea to drop Rmsl in order to reflect more projectiles?". Yes, it can assuming dropping Rmsl results in higher SH. Originally my answer was half joke