Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 6454
Joined: Tuesday, 30th October 2012, 19:06
Ask fellow adventurers how to stay alive in the deep, dark, dangerous dungeon below, or share your own accumulated wisdom.
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 6454
Joined: Tuesday, 30th October 2012, 19:06
Crypt Cleanser
Posts: 732
Joined: Monday, 24th April 2017, 11:46
Siegurt wrote:I see a lot of responses, and possible views from, people who aren't cool. I would like to strongly request that people refer to the topic title and stay within the topic's mandate.
Slime Squisher
Posts: 395
Joined: Wednesday, 6th July 2016, 02:40
Lair Larrikin
Posts: 29
Joined: Monday, 27th July 2015, 18:58
Majang wrote:On Bolt of Magma you write:I don't ever want to see an EE even looking at this spell, there is no reason to ever cast it instead of LRD.
That sounds too strong to me. Even you would appreciate having it in the Swamp (joke or not), as LRD is usually not an option there. This is the only bolt-type spell for EEs, and in this role gets many applications. As some EEs also want to train Fire magic anyway, the three-school complication is only a problem for purists.
I can't give you evidence from code, but it seems that BoM has a better to-hit rate than Iron Shot, and it fills the gap provided by the underwhelming power of Stone Arrow until IS gets fully online.
Slime Squisher
Posts: 387
Joined: Monday, 15th August 2011, 16:31
Location: Frankfurt
Shock
Damage is 1d(3+power/4), to-hit is 8+power/7. Great damage for a level 1 direct damage spell, since it hits twice, and it has LOS range, but you do need a wall. I think Shock is better than Magic Dart but worse than Freeze. As a BEAM_ELECTRICITY spell, only half of AC applies to each hit, so AC is about as good against Shock as it is against anything else.
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 6454
Joined: Tuesday, 30th October 2012, 19:06
Utis wrote:I think it's worth mentioning that Shock is, like LB, a bolt spell. For LB you write that the situation when you fire down a pack of monsters isn't really important. (I don't think I agree, but you're certainly better at tactics than I am.) But with Shock, in the early game when MP is scarce, it's a way to get more damage out of each MP. Personally, I rate Shock about on par with Freeze for this reason. At least it's a time saver.
Slime Squisher
Posts: 387
Joined: Monday, 15th August 2011, 16:31
Location: Frankfurt
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 6454
Joined: Tuesday, 30th October 2012, 19:06
Utis wrote:Hm, I'm not sure. That's when I use Shock as a bolt, too. I just believe those situation to be not quite so uncommon.I'm the first to admit that I'm a sloppy player ... but still: if I'm fighting a pack of gnolls or orcs (sans priests, of course) or whatever, I find that it's not all that rare to have four ore more of them in a line. Granted, I'm taking twice as much damage from the one in front, but if there are, say, four, then I'm taking only half as much damage from the whole group together (leaving polearms aside). You could argue that I should be splitting them up, instead, but I'm not sure that circumstantially splitting up a pack when you don't have to have to is such a good thing.
Also, using Shock as a bolt comes also into play when I'm waiting at my double bouncing corner
for two (or more) melee monsters to approach. I'm doing as much damage per MP as when I'm bouncing (unless they are exactly adjacent to each other), but I'm doing so at range.
Slime Squisher
Posts: 387
Joined: Monday, 15th August 2011, 16:31
Location: Frankfurt
Siegurt wrote:You can bounce hit things at range too...
░.....░
░.....░
░..>..░
░░░░░░░░░░.....░
░░ ░....*.........░
.░ ░.░░░.l.....░░░
.░ ░.░....*....░
.░░░░.░░░...*g..░░░░
....░.░░░.....*....░
..░.........░░░*..^░
░.░.........░░░.@..░░░░
░.░.....................
░.░.░..............░░░░░
░.░.░░░░░░░░░░░....░
░.░.░ ........░.░░░░
░.░.░ ░░░'░.░░░░
░.░.░ ░........░
░.░ ░........░
... ░........░
░.░. ░░░.░+░░░░
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 6454
Joined: Tuesday, 30th October 2012, 19:06
Utis wrote:Siegurt wrote:You can bounce hit things at range too...
Oh, come on! I'm talking about this kind of situation:
- Code:
░.....░
░.....░
░..>..░
░░░░░░░░░░.....░
░░ ░....*.........░
.░ ░.░░░.l.....░░░
.░ ░.░....*....░
.░░░░.░░░...*g..░░░░
....░.░░░.....*....░
..░.........░░░*..^░
░.░.........░░░.@..░░░░
░.░.....................
░.░.░..............░░░░░
░.░.░░░░░░░░░░░....░
░.░.░ ........░.░░░░
░.░.░ ░░░'░.░░░░
░.░.░ ░........░
░.░ ░........░
... ░........░
░.░. ░░░.░+░░░░
Or even simpler:
░.....░
░.....░
░..>..░
░░░░░░░░░░.....░
░░ ░..2g..........░
.░ ░g░░░3......░░░
.░ ░.░.........░
.░░░░.░░░.......░░░░
....░.░░░..........░
..░.....1...░░░...^░
░.░........g░░░.@..░░░░
░.░....................
░.░.░..............░░░░░
░.░.░░░░░░░░░░░....░
░.░.░ ....9...░.░░░░
░.░.░ ░░░g░.░░░░
░.░.░ ░.....g..░
░.░ ░........░
... ░......0.░
░.░. ░░░.░+░░░░
Slime Squisher
Posts: 387
Joined: Monday, 15th August 2011, 16:31
Location: Frankfurt
Crypt Cleanser
Posts: 732
Joined: Monday, 24th April 2017, 11:46
Phaedo wrote:Ironically, I'd say that swamp is the single best reason to learn Petrify as an EE. Because petrifying creatures are valid LRD targets.
Tartarus Sorceror
Posts: 1822
Joined: Thursday, 31st May 2012, 15:45
Halls Hopper
Posts: 55
Joined: Monday, 6th February 2017, 00:41
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 6454
Joined: Tuesday, 30th October 2012, 19:06
Utis wrote:Interesting. I do this kind of dance only against single, tough speed 10 monsters, when I want to get in as much damage as possible before I allow them to close to melee range. Here, I just started a throw-away game for the examples and took the first opportunities where I would use Shock as a bolt.
AFAICS, you're not gaining anything here by bouncing, though. The way I see it, once I decide that it's safe to engage in an encounter, what matters is how I spend my MP and how much damage I receive over the whole of the encounter. Firing through two monsters in a line twice is equivalent to double bouncing each of them once with regard to damage per MP. (This is, of course, assuming that the two monsters are of a comparable threat range; not, for instance, one very dangerous and the other a rat.) You're right that in those examples double bouncing is also equivalent in damage intake. It involves more moving, though, and takes more turns.
(What do you mean by "extended"? If it's about the shape of explored areas: I just cut out that part of the screen that seemed to constitute the relevant theatre of war. Maybe I should have taken more care to avoid ambiguity. It was late, when I did this, though.)
Slime Squisher
Posts: 387
Joined: Monday, 15th August 2011, 16:31
Location: Frankfurt
Siegurt wrote:By "extended" i mean you appeared to have explored some in one direction while not mapping some of the area along your possible retreat path. That might not be true, it might be that you had mapped that area, but had clipped that information from the post.
Siegurt wrote:What you should optimize for depends on the threat level of the things, your position (if you are going to be making noise and attracting more combatants) and your current mp situation, and how many turns it would cost to get into such a position.
Halls Hopper
Posts: 89
Joined: Friday, 8th January 2016, 15:50
duvessa wrote:So this isn't 100% complete; it's missing exact information for some things on some spells, and might even be missing a couple of spells, but I'm posting it now because almost all the important parts are done.
This is a guide to player spells only, monster spells are not covered and I don't plan to cover them.
This is up to date for 0.20.0. I can't promise it will be accurate for later versions.
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 4432
Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51
Halls Hopper
Posts: 89
Joined: Friday, 8th January 2016, 15:50
duvessa wrote:I'd prefer you didn't, since I don't want to update it in two places and I'd also rather not have to worry about people editing it to include more bad advice/incorrect information.
Slime Squisher
Posts: 352
Joined: Monday, 14th December 2015, 00:43
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 5382
Joined: Friday, 25th November 2011, 07:36
Tartarus Sorceror
Posts: 1822
Joined: Thursday, 31st May 2012, 15:45
Leszczynek wrote:Discord: Discord's one non-extended use is TRJ, but of course you won't train for only one use of a level 8 spell.
Abyss Ambulator
Posts: 1233
Joined: Wednesday, 23rd April 2014, 21:57
Slime Squisher
Posts: 386
Joined: Thursday, 26th March 2015, 01:22
Barkeep
Posts: 4435
Joined: Tuesday, 11th January 2011, 12:28
Slime Squisher
Posts: 395
Joined: Wednesday, 6th July 2016, 02:40
njvack wrote:I've never actually gotten Haunt castable; everyone says it's amazing. Why? It seems like it summons some fairly weak undeads... is it great because it's smite-targeted and will slow monsters down, or are haunt summons surprisingly good at killing monsters?
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 4478
Joined: Wednesday, 23rd October 2013, 07:56
Crypt Cleanser
Posts: 732
Joined: Monday, 24th April 2017, 11:46
Crypt Cleanser
Posts: 732
Joined: Monday, 24th April 2017, 11:46
Tomb Titivator
Posts: 771
Joined: Tuesday, 25th November 2014, 02:47
Abyss Ambulator
Posts: 1233
Joined: Wednesday, 23rd April 2014, 21:57
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 4432
Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51
Cocytus Succeeder
Posts: 2229
Joined: Sunday, 18th December 2011, 13:31
Abyss Ambulator
Posts: 1233
Joined: Wednesday, 23rd April 2014, 21:57
VeryAngryFelid wrote:Am I the only player who does not count tiles between me and Lich?
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 4432
Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51
4Hooves2Appendages wrote:Probably not, but I expect many experienced players are careful about the distance, at least once they become aware of the dangers. Now that enemy spell range is shown in x-v it's harder to get caught out.
VeryAngryFelid wrote:Am I the only player who does not count tiles between me and Lich?
I mean LCS range 3 is not that important when you can get hit by Poison Arrow or Iron Shot instead.
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 4432
Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51
Abyss Ambulator
Posts: 1233
Joined: Wednesday, 23rd April 2014, 21:57
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 4432
Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51
4Hooves2Appendages wrote:I don't think many people know the exact numbers, but surely most experienced players know that LCS does a lot more damage than PArrow.
Abyss Ambulator
Posts: 1233
Joined: Wednesday, 23rd April 2014, 21:57
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 4432
Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51
Abyss Ambulator
Posts: 1233
Joined: Wednesday, 23rd April 2014, 21:57
Abyss Ambulator
Posts: 1233
Joined: Wednesday, 23rd April 2014, 21:57
Crypt Cleanser
Posts: 732
Joined: Monday, 24th April 2017, 11:46
VeryAngryFelid wrote:What does more damage: Iron Shot (range 5, level 6) or PArrow (range 7, level 6)? No googling please
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 4432
Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51
Majang wrote:I'm a little confused about ranges. Iron Shot definitely has only range 4 these days, same as Stone Arrow. The Wiki also said 5, but I corrected this now. Has this been changed recently, or has the Wiki always been wrong on that? Maybe it had been edited by a Vehumet worshipper?
Crypt Cleanser
Posts: 732
Joined: Monday, 24th April 2017, 11:46
Ziggurat Zagger
Posts: 4432
Joined: Friday, 8th May 2015, 17:51
duvessa wrote:A lot of spell ranges changed with the introduction of 7los, but another possible cause is that range numbers are kind of ambiguous to someone who doesn't source dive. @----> is a range of 5, but it's very plausible that you could call it 6 instead because there are 6 characters.
Return to Dungeon Crawling Advice
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 71 guests