Controlling Nemelex..

[AtT]

As a somewhat new player I tend to stick to the more "regular" gods but nemelex is intriguing. The only time I used him he gave me a deck of wonder and like 5 lvls in fighting as a Mu (I had started as a skald but found an AMAZING artifact plate mail and decent axe, but didn't realize that I didn't have the "armor" skill to dump the exp into didn't understand the mechanism.)

The reason I started as a MuSk was that I read nemelex gives decks of wonder for food and potions. Seemed easy to me: pick up all food and potions, turn all bodies into potions. The Skald part was probably unnecessary becuase I don't think he likes potions of water/confusion/poison/degeneration/etc very much. Maybe potions of blood?

Either way, I dumped him probably 10 bread rations and 3 or 4 meat rations and like 20-30 potions at one time and didn't get a * even. Only ever got 1 deck of wonder.

Would it have been better for me to drop like 3 or 4 permafood and waited? Then 3 or 4 later? I was wondering if it's possible to basically only get decks of wonder fairly consistently and abuse that exp to get spell schools up faster. Maybe this method would be more effective (for a Mu,Vp, or any other race that didn't eat real food) than using Ashenzari? I've never really used either god but the prospect of shooting up some spell schools sounds excellent.

I like decks of summoning too. Maybe if I only gave him food and bodies I would get wonder/summoning? Tends to be weighted for summoning though so maybe I should ONLY give him permafood for a while? I won't be eating it.. But also only drawing from decks of wonder would make my piety build extremely slow right? It seems like a large part of it is using his stuff. I know from the guide to avoid weapons unless undead or especially keen on decks of destruction. I'm quite partial to summoning myself but really want to focus on exp cards.

My main question is can this be done effectively on a race that doesn't eat permafood, and if so, is it more or less effective than using Ashenzari and cursed rings/amulet.

[minstrel]

I've done it with just decks of wonder and dungeons. The dungeon decks can give you random portals (in my experience, it's 99% bazaars - I think there's some limit on certain groups of portals). But more importantly, using decks gives you piety, and dungeon decks are nearly totally safe, except for the Trowel card on ornate decks, which can make a hostile statue. Just have some emergency blink/wand of disintegration handy and you can spam them safely. When you use them up, the weight toward dungeons decreases, so it's effective to get more Wonder decks.

But in the end, drawing Wonders for XP cards gets to diminishing returns. By the time you're sacrificing stuff often enough to get lots of them, you could just be scumming pan and getting as much XP from 1's and pan lords in no time.

It's useful to help boost your level and skills in the midgame though.

[AtT]

Well I'm just trying to get my first 3runer and haven't been getting much help from the "caster" gods. Ash and nemelex seem like good choices though. Haven't decided on which one to try.

By Midgame do you mean L1-V8 ish?

[TwilightPhoenix]

From my experience, I've gotten more Decks of Wonders and whatever else I wanted by just tossing Nemelex everything rather than trying to scum too hard. Sacrificing stuff builds piety and reduces gift timeout. Using up decks builds piety and reduces gift timeout. By just sacrificing everything and then burning the decks you don't want in safe situations, you'll get decks much more frequently which can lead to your Deck of Wonders popping out sooner than by only sacrificing food and potions. And you'll also get better versions more often too.

Sacrificing is, if I remember, weighted on the value of the item. So bad potions and scrolls add little to the pile. Go ahead and sacrifice them, but Distilling corpses for potions is probably less effective than sacrificing the corpse or chunks directly for decks of summoning.

[Tiber]

From my experience, I've gotten more Decks of Wonders and whatever else I wanted by just tossing Nemelex everything rather than trying to scum too hard. Sacrificing stuff builds piety and reduces gift timeout. Using up decks builds piety and reduces gift timeout. By just sacrificing everything and then burning the decks you don't want in safe situations, you'll get decks much more frequently which can lead to your Deck of Wonders popping out sooner than by only sacrificing food and potions. And you'll also get better versions more often too.

Sacrificing is, if I remember, weighted on the value of the item. So bad potions and scrolls add little to the pile. Go ahead and sacrifice them, but Distilling corpses for potions is probably less effective than sacrificing the corpse or chunks directly for decks of summoning.

AFAIK, potions of mutation (from distilling monsters with mutagenic chunks) are the exception. Sacrificing those are a good way to get decks of wonder, which even have a card that will likely give good mutations.

[vintermann]

AFAIK, potions of mutation (from distilling monsters with mutagenic chunks) are the exception. Sacrificing those are a good way to get decks of wonder, which even have a card that will likely give good mutations.

Haven't they fixedthat yet? I used to play around with getting 40+ mutation potions from distillation, and then quaffing them repeatedly until I had a mutation set I was comfortable with, but they said that was gamey and should be nerfed

[galehar]

AFAIK, potions of mutation (from distilling monsters with mutagenic chunks) are the exception. Sacrificing those are a good way to get decks of wonder, which even have a card that will likely give good mutations.

Haven't they fixedthat yet? I used to play around with getting 40+ mutation potions from distillation, and then quaffing them repeatedly until I had a mutation set I was comfortable with, but they said that was gamey and should be nerfed

Mutagenic corpse drop has been reduced.

[hayenne]

I didn't have the "armor" skill to dump the exp into didn't understand the mechanism.)

You have to gain the skill first by hitting things in armour with EVP other than zero (so no robes but leather armours and stronger ones), and getting hit/dodged in the armour; then you can train it actively.

Either way, I dumped him probably 10 bread rations and 3 or 4 meat rations and like 20-30 potions at one time and didn't get a * even. Only ever got 1 deck of wonder.

Unless I'm mistaken (though I played Nemelex a long time ago), Nemelex gives piety for using the decks, not for the sacrifices itself - which only give you the decks.

[JeffQyzt]

The reason I started as a MuSk was that I read nemelex gives decks of wonder for food and potions. Seemed easy to me: pick up all food and potions, turn all bodies into potions.

I believe there was a (relatively) recent change that makes it so that Nemelex doesn't value sacrifices that aren't flagged as "useful" to your character. Not sure if this impacts corpses --> summoning as a mummy, but it definitely impacts potions & food --> wonder. Rings and amulets should still be valid "wonder-fodder" though. I believe this is in 0.9.X, but it may be only trunk.

[Blade]

I didn't have the "armor" skill to dump the exp into didn't understand the mechanism.)

You have to gain the skill first by hitting things in armour with EVP other than zero (so no robes but leather armours and stronger ones), and getting hit/dodged in the armour; then you can train it actively.

Either way, I dumped him probably 10 bread rations and 3 or 4 meat rations and like 20-30 potions at one time and didn't get a * even. Only ever got 1 deck of wonder.

Unless I'm mistaken (though I played Nemelex a long time ago), Nemelex gives piety for using the decks, not for the sacrifices itself - which only give you the decks.

Sacrificing builds some piety. I have no idea how much, but I once played as a SpEn of Nemelex who converted while wielding a vampiric dagger that I really didn't want to unwield. I had to sacrifice things until I finally reached 1* piety and could draw from my inventory (it took a long time, though; sacrifices are certainly not the best way to get piety).

...also, I got bored once and made a wizmode game to test what would happen when every unrand was sacrificed simultaneously. Instant full piety.

[galehar]

I believe there was a (relatively) recent change that makes it so that Nemelex doesn't value sacrifices that aren't flagged as "useful" to your character.

When prices were changed, some bad items were given a value to make shop id a bit more significant. Since sacrifice piety gain is based on item value, an additional check has been added, but it doesn't depend on the player and is different from the "usefulness" function.

[slowcar]

Nemelex Mummy sounds like an interesting idea, then

[Burningled]

Nemelex Mummy sounds like an interesting idea, then

It is, I like it rather much; you really have to push to get your Evocations anywhere though.