Nergalle, what the heck?

[fisheye]

She's absolutely no threat at all, but I can't kill her because I damage her down to near death, then she just casts death door and then surrounds herself with spammed spectral orcs. I futz around, until the DD wears off, then I come back and try to kill her again, and boom she casts DD again with no cooldown.

That's just.... I don't even. What? So I can't defeat her unless I can kill her in one hit?

[crate]

yeah pretty much it's never worth fighting nergalle

[fisheye]

She's now blocking the stairs in one of those levels where the three stairs are all next to each other.

My plan now is to use the experience in Lair to learn cblink, and cblink past her so I can advance. Grrr.

There's something wrong with putting death's door on monsters. The spell is balanced by risk and by MP limitations, neither of which monsters care about.

[Greyr]

You could try polymorphing her if you have a wand.

[Eyesburn]

Heh, thats how I killed Erolcha last time;
polymorphed her into a goliath beetle, then filled it with poison javelins ^_^

[rchandra]

Poison needles are also pretty good for nergalle when you have to kill her. Also, she won't always recast ddoor. Teleporting on the floor might be better than using Lair for CBlink.

[duvessa]

Nah ddoor isn't balanced on players either

[fisheye]

Well this character YASDed in lair when I went down stairs to land next to an 8 headed hydra (that I fled from earlier and forgot was there, totally avoidable death if not for my shitty memory - I was busy trying to survive Rupert at XL13 at the time and wasn't paying attention to inscribing the stairs). Goddammit this game makes you feel stupid sometimes.

[tedric]

that's why I try to "X e" on any staircase I just used to escape something I don't want to meet again soon, otherwise I end up autotraveling back into its face a few turns later

[stickyfingers]

She won't cast DD when confused or paralysed. Also, you can poison her heavily and get offscreen, she can't cast then too.

[Magipi]

Well this character YASDed in lair when I went down stairs to land next to an 8 headed hydra (that I fled from earlier and forgot was there, totally avoidable death if not for my shitty memory - I was busy trying to survive Rupert at XL13 at the time and wasn't paying attention to inscribing the stairs). Goddammit this game makes you feel stupid sometimes.

Nergalle was "absolutely no threat at all", and you died to a hydra? Something is not right here.

[Bloax]

Well hydras are kinda bad if you're using non-flaming axes/swords/2h-polearms, so it's probably that.

[Sar]

They're speed 10 and have no ranged attacks. I'm not really sure how a monster that surrounds you with spectral orc knights and shoots bolts of draining through them is "more trivial" than a hydra. Unless you get corner-hydra'd, and your defenses are crap, and you have no escape consumables?

[fisheye]

Nergalle and her summons (even when hasted) don't seem to be quite fast enough to catch a backpedalling character. Mainly I think her normal, unhasted orcs tend to get in the way of her orc knights, so a bit of careful maneuvering keeps you mainly in the clear. On the other hand, coming down stairs to land directly right next to an 8 headed hydra that you completely forgot about, with only around 50HP remaining (after killing Rupert the previous level and trying to escape a komodo dragon that was attracted by the noise of the battle), is instadeath - when energy randomization or whatever foul sorcery allows the hydra to get two moves, that's 16 attacks for you. I didn't even get a chance to move. XL12, EV15 AC13. Enjoy my death log:

There is a stone staircase leading down here.
You climb downwards.
The eight-headed hydra bites you but does no damage.
The eight-headed hydra bites you. The eight-headed hydra bites you!
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
The eight-headed hydra closely misses you.
The eight-headed hydra bites you.
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
The eight-headed hydra bites you.
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
The eight-headed hydra closely misses you.
The eight-headed hydra barely misses you.
The eight-headed hydra misses you. The eight-headed hydra bites you!
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
The eight-headed hydra bites you.
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
The eight-headed hydra bites you.
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
The eight-headed hydra bites you!
You die...


In other news, that reminder about the polymorph wand works a treat:

Aim: Erolcha the black bear (severely wounded)
The sticky flame hits Erolcha.
Erolcha is almost dead.
Erolcha is covered in liquid flames! Erolcha burns!
You hit Erolcha but do no damage. Your tail-slap misses Erolcha.
Erolcha is almost dead.
Erolcha burns!
You kill Erolcha!

[Sar]

whatever foul sorcery allows the hydra to get two moves

Taking stairs takes more than one turn.

[fisheye]

whatever foul sorcery allows the hydra to get two moves

Taking stairs takes more than one turn.

Yeah I think it's 1.5 turns? Couldn't find the actual number. But there ya go, I was dead the moment my memory failed me.

[daggaz]

I melee Nergalle all the time. If you have good evasion or plenty of +rN, and the summons don't bother you, you can just stand next to her and tab her until ddoor runs out. If you can't finish her off before she gets it back up, you probably shouldn't be a melee focused character anyhow. Otherwise the poison suggestion works every time.

[Jeremiah]

Scroll of silence would probably work too.

[crate]

Stairs going to a floor you've already visited seem to be either 2.3-2.4 or 3.3-3.4 (I don't know which) turns; stairs going to a floor you haven't yet visited seem to be roughly 1.7 or 2.7 turns (again I'm not sure which)

This is based on the time display in-game, so there could be something else going on here.

[XuaXua]

Stairs going to a floor you've already visited seem to be either 2.3-2.4 or 3.3-3.4 (I don't know which) turns; stairs going to a floor you haven't yet visited seem to be roughly 1.7 or 2.7 turns (again I'm not sure which)

This is based on the time display in-game, so there could be something else going on here.

Which species?

[crate]

I used human but I am pretty sure that all races take stairs in the same amount of time. (Centaurs used to be slower, but I believe that was removed, and I think every other race has been the same.)

[grisamentum]

You could try polymorphing her if you have a wand.

i polymorphed gastronok on L:1

he turned into a titan

[Greyr]

^ I've heard about that happening.

Xom thinks this is hilarious!

[njvack]

  Code:

3173 | D:4 | Grinder changed into Grinder the Executioner

[Sprucery]

What are the specifics of monster polymorphing? Learndb also says that monsters turn into monsters of similar HD but Grinder is 6 and executioner 12. Gastronok and titan are both 20, though.

[stickyfingers]

Must be the same holiness, so grinder will always become a demon. Game tries for similar hd, but can diverge (with a bias towards higher values).

[Psiweapon]

Demons can be polymorphed?? O__o

[Wahaha]

Since no one said one of the simplest (but not best) solutions, I usually kill her between recasts of ddoor, because she doesn't always recast it instantly.

[Psiweapon]

I Majorly Destroyed her ass today.

[scorpionwarrior]

Yeah, I've learned to not fight her unless I can confuse/paralyze/polymorph/etc. in the first couple turns.

[stoneychips]

Old thread, but yes Nergalle...

I used to find her an enormous pain, but then I started poisoning her on sight (Sticky Flame also works). Now, the fights never seem to last very long.

So I am wondering: Does Death's Door not stop damage over time effects? Or does she just never cast it in those situations?
I haven't been watching closely enough to check.

Anyway, DOTs seem to cut her right down.

[duvessa]

Ddoor stops hp from decreasing (for the most part) and prevents death from starvation. But if the ddoor status expires and nergalle is still poisoned or sticky flamed, she will die pretty fast unless she manages to recast ddoor in time, since ddoor leaves her with 8 hp. Similarly, if ddoor expires and you are still at 0 nutrition, you have exactly one action to increase your nutrition (or start eating, since you can't starve while eating) before you die from starvation.

[bcadren]

Easiest ways of dealing with Nergalle:

• Meph Cloud/Confuse immediately kill her while she's still confused.
• Stack A LOT of poison [3 x poison needle does it] then cast Ignite Poison (makes certain that she's not below 1/3 HP for long).
• Read a Scroll of Fear (causes her to cast DDoor immediately). Poison her (Curare works best; but normal dart, whatever); then run away. she generally dies the turn that the DDoor runs out since she can't recast it while outside of your LoS.
• Hit hard enough in melee that she doesn't get a chance to cast DDoor anyways.

[tasonir]

Since this thread started I believe there was a nerf to nergalle in that she now has a slight cooldown between DD expiring and being able to recast it. It isn't long, but it's several turns and you should be able to kill her in that time...

[Reptisaurus]

My favorite is when you get Abyssed at L:9 by hasted spectral orcs with distortion weapons.

It seems like she only gets DD off 1/3 or 1/4th of the time, though. Most fights i end up just killing her.

[triorph]

You can also kill-hole nergalle and then you can fight her as long as you like without worrying about spectral orcs. She's not typically tough enough to be a threat alone even if she's technically invincible for several of those turns. This really depends on the char though.