Kobolds

[ajon]

So I have been playing some Kobold Assassins lately figuring that this is the best use of their aptitudes and it likely is. However, I noticed that they don't have bad Apts in magic skills or in some other weapons like axes or M&F.

How good are kobolds for magic or other backgrounds? Does the lower hp and issues with two handers really hurt them overall?

[radinms]

yes, kobold has flat aptitudes, so magic kobold is viable.
http://lazy-life.ddo.jp:8080/morgue/rad ... 031449.txt

But magic is not needed because obviously trog is a top-tier god even at extended game.
http://lazy-life.ddo.jp:8080/morgue/rad ... 143657.txt

[WingedEspeon]

IMO the best use of kobald apt is to got melee early with m&f or short blade, then transistion into using thrown for late game. (this means no silly sort of training thrown as backup late game. if you only have 22 throwing your 5 levels is throwing too low.) Trog work well for this as he gifts both weapons and ammo. THis isn' to say hat there aren't other viable way to play kobald, it is just that throwing is OP right now.

[mps]

Kobolds are like halflings, but not as good. You get crazy defenses since you're small and can wear whatever armor you want. No 2-handed weapons is just an excuse to use a buckler, which gives you a cheap +8 or so defense shortly after you pick one up. The hp isn't that bad, imo.

Throwing is OP at extreme skill, but evo is also OP even at moderate skill (try new boxes of beasts). The most interesting kobold aptitudes are evo, necro, and summoning, imo. Their charms and armour are not so good, which is part of why I like halflings better. If you want to try a different but good background on a kobold, summoner is p good.

[radinms]

If moderate skill is okay at Evo, there is no reason to pick up Ko.

Ko's crazy aptitude is obviously throwing+3.
Because "extremely" high skilled throwing has a crazy dmg even normal tomahawks.
(But halfling has a same aptitude, so obviously there is no reason to pick up kobold hah)

And yes, summon or necro kobold seems nice.
Tengu has higher aptitudes than kobold, but kobold has a innate gourmand.
That's nice if you choose sif muna and spam high level summoning. (And kobold has a nice invocation aptitude)

[dowan]

I found crossbow kobold quite good. You don't have to train it to 27 for it to be quite effective, and branching into necro for excrutiating wounds (Should it exist in your game) makes your shortblade very effective. 18 crossbow skill and 12 short blade skill means you have lots of xp to throw around for your defenses and spells.

Of course, throwing is a good option too, and opens up needlestabbing. For some reason I just hate throwing if I can't throw large rocks, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't use it.

Kobolds can feel invincible due to their great EV, but remember you've got low HP, so be careful around big hitters. I'd personally go with oka or makhleb, but that's because I almost always go with oka or makhleb. Kiku's probably a good choice if you intend to go with necro, and the guaranteed pain weapon fits in really well with the short blades. However, oka will give ammo gifts and probably give you a quickblade, which you can use excrutiating wounds with, while Kiku will permanently pain brand whatever short blade you can find.

Kobolds are great, and relatively easy to win with. They play a little differently due to the small size, but it really doesn't handicap them much, and the EV boost is great.

[partial]

KoEn are solid too
very high stealth apt and small size make sneaking around easy

[ajon]

How does needlestabbing actually work? Maybe its just because im in the early game but It almost feels unwieldy like its hard to make it more efficient than tab stabbing with a dagger. Does paralysis needles make repeated stabs possible?

[njvack]

Needlestabbing is a thing where "stabs" with blown needles get a multiplier to their effectiveness (is it based on Throwing? I think so?) so once you land paralysis on a dangerous monster (which already works very well at high Throwing) you can paralyze it for a very very very long time.

You do get to repeatedly stab paralyzed monsters, but you probably don't need to, because that monster is just a punching bag now.

The multiplier also means that hitting a sleeping monster with curare will do Crazy Insane Damage and slow it for a very long time.

[bcadren]

My Kobold win...was triple crossbow and paralysis needles with cBlink. It was insane. +2! xBows is really insane while Triple Crossbows are a thing. Similarly +3! Throwing with paralysis needles is insane... haha.

[ajon]

So the paralysis needle wont do a lot of damage just the curare?

[bcadren]

So the paralysis needle wont do a lot of damage just the curare?

+9 Blowgun and 27 Throwing skill:

44% chance to paralyze Antaeus. (All other Hell and Pan Lords are easier than this.)
55% chance to paralyze a Hell Sentinel. (All other 1's are easier than this.)
22% chance to paralyze an Orb of Fire. (Hardest thing to Paralyze that you technically can paralyze).

Needlestab (higher chance to work and longer effect) uses Throwing and Stealth as a Stabbing skill and works under the same conditions as normal stabs.

[ajon]

Does frenzy work like discord on a target or just berserk it?

[bcadren]

Does frenzy work like discord on a target or just berserk it?

Yes, but it's hard to use it well...Note that if you use it on say...dispater...he will proceed become neutral, but not berserk (he can't berserk). And proceed to Iron Shot the Fiends around him.There are very few good targets for frenzy though really...one yak from a pack could cause some chaos...or TLH when it's in melee range of a bunch of swamp drakes, etc.

[radinms]

OoF is not living, so palalysis needle is not effective.

[bcadren]

OoF is not living, so palalysis needle is not effective.

DERP. It's the highest HD of non-Undead...honestly I thought it was demonic.

[jejorda2]

Does frenzy work like discord on a target or just berserk it?

Yes, but it's hard to use it well...Note that if you use it on say...dispater...he will proceed become neutral, but not berserk (he can't berserk). And proceed to Iron Shot the Fiends around him.There are very few good targets for frenzy though really...one yak from a pack could cause some chaos...or TLH when it's in melee range of a bunch of swamp drakes, etc.

Berzerking summoners or smiters before they can cast their spells can be useful. I've defeated an early nergalle this way.

[advil]

I found KoEE really fun and quite viable, though gyre and gimble didn't hurt. Intrinsic gourmand is helpful for a Ko hybrid, though I assume less so in trunk. Flat aptitudes are good for a hybrid.

[ajon]

why less so in trunk?

[Siegurt]

why less so in trunk?

You can't eat poisonous chunks at all any more (whether or not you have rPois) They aren't even called 'poisonous' they're simply 'inedible'

[dowan]

I think that makes gourmand more valuable, if anything, since edible corpses are that much further apart. With even remotely sensible play, food is not a problem for kobolds.

[ajon]

I almost never touch permafood unless I forget to butcher things and realize I'm starving because I am so full all the time it becomes almost a non-issue.

[advil]

Just to expand on my somewhat elliptical comment: the value of gourmand for a hybrid, especially one with aptitudes/stats like Ko, is that it allows you to neglect spellcasting and still comfortably cast the mid-level bread and butter attack spells, thus putting that XP elsewhere (combat skills / defenses). It isn't the food per se. For a KoEE this is stuff like stone arrow, LRD and later iron shot, and you'll notice that even at endgame in the game I linked I still had pretty high hunger costs for these last two spells. On trunk, my guess is that this would be quite noticeable on a Ko hybrid in snake/spider/swamp, with some lighter impact in the lategame, and probably necessitate more training of spellcasting than in 0.16 (or some other strategy). But I haven't played a Ko caster in trunk so this was a guess, and there's probably still enough permafood to fall back on.

[tasonir]

Unless you have really, really focused spell list, it's probably ideal to keep spellcasting in line with your magic schools anyways. Assuming you have significant spells in 4 schools, training spellcasting is as efficient as training those 4 skills, and you get a bonus point of mana (roughly, it's not quite 1 for 1 anymore). If all of your magic is 1-2 schools of magic, then it's less effective to train spellcasting, but assuming you have 1-2 main damage skills and ~2 support schools, it's likely you're at four or more schools on most characters.