gargoyles and hellfire

[esran]

Any advice for surviving hellfire on gargoyles? I'm pretty sure AC EV and SH are useless against hellfire, and while most characters can just tough it out gargoyles have low enough hp that a couple hits can be deadly. Also, where should gargoyles go after completing the first two lair branches. For most characters I go elvish halls if I have magic resistance, but I've lost 2 gargoyle fighters there to hellfire.

[RBrandon]

Your main problem is going to the Elven Halls at all. I will solve both of your problems by telling you not to go there. This applies to characters that aren't gargoyles as well. The loot is tempting for sure, but in the vast majority of games there is nothing there that you need to win.

Though that should mostly solve your issue from the strategic side, there might be a elf high priest or two in depths or something as well. Good tactics can help you deal with hellfire (and smiting and similar attacks). Whenever possible, have them in LOS the least amount possible. Abuse corners, use scrolls of fog in emergencies, and so on. Kill them at range if you have the option (you usually do, wands or elemental evokers are good for this and really for anything that gives you trouble).

To answer your question about where to go after the lair branches, usually Vaults is pretty manageable by that point. It is in general a step up in difficulty from the lair branches, but in my experience you are probably ready if you have already handled two rune vaults.

[Siegurt]

Here's how you survive hellfire in elf:3

  Code:

(elves)
# #
# #
# #
# #
# #
# #
#@#


  Code:

q- wand of disintigration


{V}{q}{u}{u}{V}{q}{n}{n}
{y}{b}[t}{t}{u}{n}

  Code:

(elves)
# #
#e#
#e#
# #
#e###
#e#e#
# e#@#
# ####


{tab}{tab}{tab}{tab}{tab}{tab}
Oh they stopped coming?, *peeks* {y}{b}
nope still on the way, make noise {u}{n}
....
{tab}{tab}{tab}{tab}{tab}{tab}

etc....

[BobIsDead]

If I recall, hellfire isn't something that can be avoided or resisted in any way whatsoever. I could be misremembering, but I think it works like that. So basically, keep out their line of sight or hit them hard and fast.

With regards to where to go after the Lair branches ones are done, as an above poster said, the Vaults are your next bet. Assuming you've fully explored the main dungeon and have cleared out the Orcish Mines already. The Elven Halls, I tend to save until the endgame, when I'm putting off getting the orb. I wouldn't call it unnecessary or needlessly risky, but I think things like your build might strongly disincentivise you to go there.

So... that's not actually much in the way of advice, now that I think about it. My usual trick is to just be tough enough to weather it, but I think it's suicide to expect that from a gargoyle.

[1010011010]

Elves don't have rHellfire. Being next to them is a good defence,if they do hellfire, then they kill themselves. when encountering a single elf then lure it around a corner, if it's the end vault the follow Siegurt's instuction.

[Bloax]

Except replace {z} with {V} because this isn't nethack.

[Siegurt]

Except replace {z} with {V} because this isn't nethack.

Good point, fixed

[Sphara]

Minor things to remember dealing with hellfire in Elf:3:

Deep Elf High Priest WILL blast you with a hellfire burst, even if you are next to it. That guy doesn't care if he commits a suicide doing so even though his hellfire is smite-targeted.

Deep Elf Sorcerer WILL NEVER use it's hellfire attack if you are next to it. He needs a clear LOS.

[crate]

I have a 100% foolproof method to never die to hellfire in elf:3

don't go there!

[damiac]

I have a 100% foolproof method to never die to hellfire in elf:3

don't go there!

That's like the 100% foolproof method of never dying in dungeon crawl!

Don't play dungeon crawl!

Useful advice!

[Jeremiah]

On the other hand, you can't win the game without playing it, but you can win without going to Elf 3.

[Magipi]

On the other hand, you can't win the game without playing it, but you can win without going to Elf 3.

On the other hand, you can also easily meet hellfiring elves in the Vaults (yes, yes, you can win without going to Vaults as well). Also, on the orb run various hellfiring demon dudes can appear.

[damiac]

If the topic was "How do I win without getting killed by hellfire in elf 3" then yes, don't go to elf would be excellent advice.
And "Don't go to elf" is good advice in relation to his second question, where to go after 2 lair branches.

But to answer the question "How do I survive hellfire as a gargoyle", "Don't go to elf" is more dodging the question than answering it. Plus the second post of this topic already said that, but with actual detail and useful content.

[njvack]

But to answer the question "How do I survive hellfire as a gargoyle", "Don't go to elf" is more dodging the question than answering it.

OK, so a better answer is "get hellfired less often."

There's nothing magically different about this than getting nailed by yaktaurs or fire giants, except that resistances and EV and AC don't help so you need to rely on positioning and line of sight more. Once you can do that with hellfiring monsters, you'll have an easier time dealing with monsters with other ranged attacks because the same tactics work well.

Remember in particular that very very few monsters have smite-targeted hellfire, so summons and other monsters are great. Also the digging trick listed earlier in this post, which is kind of the extreme case of 'corners'.

[Sphara]

If you do not know how to deal with hellfire attacks then do not do the Elf, then.
You're gonna have deal with that in Zot:1-5 where there are similar draconians as DE high priests and DE sorcerers.

Elf branch has the problem of having -cTele, draconians have that advantage only in Zot:5. Of course you will be more powerful then, yeah, without a question.
Elf:3 has a loot for a reason. Siegurt already told how it should be dealt with.

If you do lack elf-kit (MR+++, rElec, somewhat high AC or EV and highly damaging melee or ranged attacks) then forget it.

When you learn how to deal with hellfire, you will learn that doing the place with 'elf-kit' your biggest concern isn't hellfire. It is annihilators.

[Sar]

I think not having rElec is fine if your EV is alright.

Also "physical" vault elves can be very dangerous (archers, blademasters).

[damiac]

Why rElec for elf3? It's been a bit since I've done elf, admittedly, but I don't recall having any special need for rElec there. Just lots of MR, AC, EV, and KillDudes

[Sar]

Annihilators have lightning bolt and if they use it in a killhole it has a potential to hit twice?

[Sphara]

Well, rElec is pretty good there if I'm concerning giving advice for somewhat novice players. As in OP:s case, gargoyle, yes it does not make much sense.

But.. No one of us wants to write 'Complete Elf Guide' here, so..

I'll give up.

Just don't do fucking Elf. Okay? It kills you.

I will do it. In almost every game. It has killed me two or three times but I still fucking do it. I've had game-changing loot more often than disappointment.

[McGeekster]

I've been banished every time I've tried Elf. My recommendation is get a damn amulet of stasis.

[crate]

I've been banished every time I've tried Elf. My recommendation is get a damn amulet of stasis.

Stasis doesn't affect banishment.

[Quazifuji]

I've been banished every time I've tried Elf. My recommendation is get a damn amulet of stasis.

I feel like Abyss 1 is possibly less dangerous than Elf 3 for a lot of characters anyway. I also haven't been banished in Elf in ages, but maybe I've just been lucky. It's definitely worth equipping MR items if you have them, but I don't think banishment is the biggest threat in Elf 3.

[Sprucery]

I always do Elf, because it's fun. I don't remember dying there, but I'm sure I have many years ago. Annihilators are the most frightening elves imo. Misc evokables are great in there, I especially enjoy spamming sacks of spiders.

[damiac]

Part of elf's danger is they're so squishy you feel like it's easy, until suddenly you're dead. By the time you're ready for elf, you should be ready for abyss, at least, that's when I start considering it. (So maybe after clearing depths)

[Sandman25]

Depths/Vaults can contain the same monsters as Elf can, but without Convokers/Wardens/Ancient Liches/Titans/Rakshasas etc. Elf is much easier than Vaults/Depths IMHO.

[damiac]

Well, no blademasters or master archers in depths/vaults, at least that I can recall.

But that's true, those other areas have gotten more difficult over time (Depths used to be just more dungeon) so elf may not be as deadly, relative to other sections of the game, as it used to be.

[Nordon]

I've not died to Elves on any character since I started doing the killhole trick.
If you are concerned about the lightning bolts - instead of breaking only one tile behind yourself, use a wand of digging (if you won't open an entrace behind your character that is).
Some of the Elf3 vaults will allow for it, others not so much.
But killhole is definitely the name of the game.
It even works for Chei characters. (be very careful though....)

[Jeremiah]

Well, no blademasters or master archers in depths/vaults, at least that I can recall.

But that's true, those other areas have gotten more difficult over time (Depths used to be just more dungeon) so elf may not be as deadly, relative to other sections of the game, as it used to be.

Actually I have seen blademasters and master archers in Depths 5, not sure if they might have been placed by a vault rather than as standard dungeon generation.

[Sharkman1231]

If you have decent offence and Silence at okay spellpower, Elf:3 is very doable. The main theats are blademaster/archers because then it's much harder for you to escape. Most high level elves will walk into a flame cloud, you can set one up outside the hidey-hole you have and kill them more easily that way. I think all high level levels and elf knights will walk into flame clouds.

[Sandman25]

Blademasters/archers don't see invisible so Silence + Invisibility is a great combo there. Decent stealth helps to see what monsters we are going to fight so enchanters may find Elf easier than Snake.

[duvessa]

imo silence is not a great combo against monsters with no spells

[Sandman25]

Have you read second sentence of my post?

[damiac]

I just rolled through elf with a FoFi, I had so much MR that when I took off a MR++ gloves, I still had max MR on the character screen. I had RC++, RF++, good AC, decent EV, and a vamp triple sword. And I just dug myself a killhole and yelled a lot.

It was hilariously easy, however it would not have been if I had just charged into the treasure vault.

I got a couple of nice rings and spellbooks, so it was definitely worth it for this character. Ended up ascending with 3 runes anyway, Fo's are always just 1 bad encounter from death with their stasis, so I grabbed the win when I could.

This relates to the OP somehow, I assure you. Oh... I got hellfired a couple times when I wasn't in a killhole... so... if you must clear elf, make a killhole and have lots of resistances and what not.