Vine crawlers and UC

[Pleroma]

I've been playing around the the Vine stalker lately. My attempts an Monk have all died horribly, but my recent run with a warper has gone better, perhaps because of the addition of a sword. Usually with characters like these I just grind out the relevant weapon skill and stop worrying, but the vine stalker presents an odd problem
It has an auxiliary bite that drains mana, which is kinda huge for my build, so I have to train UC to get the most use out of it. Problem: I have no idea how far to train up my UC, since it's just for the bite attack.
Thoughts?

[duvessa]

UC has no effect whatsoever on the bite attack.

[Pleroma]

UC has no effect whatsoever on the bite attack.

Well shit. Is there anything I can do to buff it?

[Quazifuji]

UC has no effect whatsoever on the bite attack.

Well shit. Is there anything I can do to buff it?

According to learndb, fangs damage (unless Vine Stalkers are different) is (fangs mutation level * 2) + (str - 10) / 5, so it gets one point of damage for every 5 points of str after 10, but that's it.

[crate]

vs is different

the only thing you might do that is actually different from playing normally is you might want to use a quick blade for more bites, but generally you should just play your VS normally since anything you try to do to specifically increase bite damage isn't worth the effort

[Bloax]

You increase bite frequency by picking str/dex and you increase the damage the same way you increase the damage for everything melee - which by training fighting and having Slay+x items equipped.

[Lasty]

Despite the 0 apt, I don't think UC is particularly good for VS -- it increases in speed very, very slowly compared with other weapons, for one thing. I'd generally rather be swinging a great sword or something that gets fast quickly.

With VS, you get a chance to bite once per attack. The chance is Str+Dex in 49, so once your stats are high enough you get a bite on every single attack. I've been trying to propose a more fluid system that doesn't make aux attacks particularly good for fast weapons and particularly bad for slow ones, but I haven't gotten much traction so far.

[Sandman25]

Despite the 0 apt, I don't think UC is particularly good for VS -- it increases in speed very, very slowly compared with other weapons, for one thing. I'd generally rather be swinging a great sword or something that gets fast quickly.

With VS, you get a chance to bite once per attack. The chance is Str+Dex in 49, so once your stats are high enough you get a bite on every single attack. I've been trying to propose a more fluid system that doesn't make aux attacks particularly good for fast weapons and particularly bad for slow ones, but I haven't gotten much traction so far.

It is especially true in extended. VS is the only species who does not have to choose between holy and anti-magic. It can hit demons/undead with holy weapon AND still shut their spells off by antimagic effect from the bite.

[Sphara]

VSMo.. I don't know if this is universally good advice coz i'm no good at battle mathematics:

I would fight unarmed for some time (while fighting being the only skill on) and hoping of finding a good weapon. But how long, that depends on the loot you find.

Vine Stalker Monk is a very versatile combo. The very first altar you'll find can decide your fate. So i don't think there are good answers other than that unarmed Vine Stalker is not an ideal choice. You'll discover that the deeper you go in the dungeon.

For early survivability, pick up everything that you can throw. VS is not bad on throwing stuff. Put some skill on throwing perhaps before you find a weapon you desire for..?

Make the best you can from the earlygame loot and make your decision. Monk's first decision carries him on for a looooong time, when the decisive altar (the first) has been found.

[Sandman25]

Well, why not start as Gl/As/Fi if you are going to use a weapon?

[Magipi]

Well, why not start as Gl/As/Fi if you are going to use a weapon?

Or rather, why don't you start with a good book background?

[Sandman25]

Well, why not start as Gl/As/Fi if you are going to use a weapon?

Or rather, why don't you start with a good book background?

This is different. It is hard to find a book with Freeze or Animate Skeleton on D1. Why not start with flail if you are going to use M&F? XP spent on UC skill will be lost after the switch and starting UC damage for Mo is really close to damage of the flail.

[Sphara]

Well, why not start as Gl/As/Fi if you are going to use a weapon?

Or rather, why don't you start with a good book background?

Wasn't this about Vine Stalker monk? It is even easier than VSFi. Gl might be better than Mo during the earlygame and As most certainly is.

[Sandman25]

Wasn't this about Vine Stalker monk? It is even easier than VSFi. Gl might be better than Mo during the earlygame and As most certainly is.

Oh, sorry, I see now. I am among those players who want to play UC warrior when starting Mo and who want to stay with Xom forever when starting CK.

[Sphara]

Depending of race, monk does not want to go unarmed the whole game

Try centaur, spriggan or an ogre.

[stickyfingers]

I'd totally go UC on CeMo, have you actually played that?

[and into]

If you find a particularly good weapon, then sure, pick it up and use it, but if you choose Mo you probably should just stick with UC.

Right out of the gate, a human monk will do 2.4 AED against orc, 1.6 AED against an adder. With a short blade and 4 skill in short blades, it will do 2.2 (orc) or 1.4 (adder). A HuMo starts with 4 in unarmed combat, 0 in short blades, and does not start with a short blade available.

Switching from UC --> some weapon on a monk puts you at a disadvantage, in general, although of course a particularly good weapon can outweigh that disadvantage. Just picking up a +0 whatever is likely going to be a bad idea though. (Except if it is a demon <foo> in early game, but that's staggeringly rare.)

Also I have no idea why a Monk would alter weapon choice based on the first altar you find. I guess with some gods you want to get a brand eventually, but TSO is pretty bad to start (and even then you could always bless a ranged weapon which is cooler anyway), Lugonu is rarely available in early D and temple, and with Kiku you can just take the necronomicon, since you should already have a good weapon (your fists) by the time the gift becomes available.

@ Lasty: If you aren't wearing heavy armor, UC starts out pretty quick (1 aut per attack, and you'll get to 5.4 skill fast, which is 0.9 per attack), and then you hit 0.7 at around the same time as a bastard sword or morning-/eveningstar, which is sooner than a great sword. VSMo might not be great, sure, but for a weapon that gets high base damage eventually, UC also has a pretty good "speed curve."

[XuaXua]

I believe the only thing you have to watch out for with UC is really level 2+ (or just level 3?) claws vs hydras, since those decapitate; it's one of the reasons UC tend to also be transmuters (Ice Form) or have a ranged / heavy wand option or summons.

[basil]

I'd basically never make any --Mo skilling/god choices based on hydras.

[XuaXua]

I'd basically never make any --Mo skilling/god choices based on hydras.

It's good to see that you've provided an explanation on how you handle them alongside your response.

[ackack]

I get what people are saying about UC suffering a bit with VS, but VSMo using UC is still a pretty good character. I remember this as one of my better raw tabbers and the gear doesn't even seem particularly distinctive (guess it's Dith power):

  Code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.15-a0-82-g8db4111 (webtiles) character file.

1931588 ackack the Slayer (level 26, 161/161 HPs)
             Began as a Vine Stalker Monk on Apr 5, 2014.
             Was the Champion of Dithmenos.
             Escaped with the Orb
             ... and 3 runes on Apr 7, 2014!
             
             The game lasted 05:17:23 (51081 turns).

ackack the Slayer (Vine Stalker Monk)              Turns: 51081, Time: 05:17:23

HP 161/161       AC 24     Str 16      XL: 26   Next: 88%
MP  41/41        EV 32     Int 16      God: Dithmenos [******]
Gold 1956        SH  0     Dex 25      Spells: 12 memorised, 15 levels left

rFire  + . .     SeeInvis +       - Unarmed
rCold  + . .     Clarity  .     K - +4 ring mail of Maism {rC+ Stlth+}
rNeg   . . .     Conserve .     (no shield)
rPois  .         rCorr    .     S - +2 helmet {SInv}
rElec  .         rRot     +     F - +2 cloak
SustAb . .       Spirit   +     I - +2 pair of gloves
rMut   .         Warding  .     c - +2 pair of boots
Saprov . . .     Stasis   .     q - amulet "Zerif" {Spirit Dex+4}
MR     +++..                    G - ring of protection from fire
                                s - +5 ring of evasion

@: repel missiles, very slightly contaminated, wreathed by umbra, extremely
resistant to hostile enchantments, fairly stealthy
A: fangs 3, regeneration 3, magic shield, antimagic bite, no device heal
a: Shadow Step, Shadow Form, Renounce Religion
0: Orb of Zot
}: 3/15 runes: decaying, serpentine, slimy


You escaped.
You worshipped Dithmenos.
Dithmenos was exalted by your worship.
You were not hungry.

You visited 11 branches of the dungeon, and saw 61 of its levels.
You visited 1 bazaar.
You also visited: Trove and Sewer.

You collected 6441 gold pieces.
You spent 4485 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 b - a +7 blowgun
 Z - the +3,+3 Elemental Staff {rElec rF++ rC++ MR++ AC+5}
   (You took it off a deep elf sorcerer on level 3 of the Elven Halls)   
   
   It affects your AC (+5).
   It greatly protects you from fire.
   It greatly protects you from cold.
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
Missiles
 A - 11 curare-tipped needles
Armour
 c - a +2 pair of boots (worn)
 F - a +2 cloak (worn)
 I - a +2 pair of gloves (worn)
 K - the +4 ring mail of Maism (worn) {rC+ Stlth+}
   (You found it on level 6 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It protects you from cold.
   It makes you much more stealthy.
 S - a +2 helmet of see invisible (worn)
Magical devices
 h - a wand of teleportation (8)
 j - a wand of hasting (3)
 u - a wand of disintegration (3)
Comestibles
 n - 9 apples
 w - 5 bread rations
Scrolls
 g - 3 scrolls of fog
 o - a scroll of enchant weapon II
 p - 3 scrolls of recharging
 t - a scroll of holy word
 y - 2 scrolls of identify
 O - 4 scrolls of remove curse
 R - 4 scrolls of blinking
 U - 2 scrolls of fear
Jewellery
 a - the ring "Nozuluza" {rC+ Dex-1 Stlth++}
   (You took it off a yaktaur captain on level 5 of the Depths)   
   
   [ring of protection from cold]
   
   It affects your dexterity (-1).
   It protects you from cold.
   It makes you much more stealthy.
 d - the ring "Fovvay" {+/*Tele rF+ Stlth+}
   (You found it on level 2 of the Vaults)   
   
   [ring of teleportation]
   
   It causes random teleportation, and can be evoked to teleport at will.
   It protects you from fire.
   It makes you much more stealthy.
 l - an uncursed amulet of conservation
 q - the amulet "Zerif" (around neck) {Spirit Dex+4}
   (You found it on level 2 of the Snake Pit)   
   
   [amulet of guardian spirit]
   
   It causes incoming damage to be split between your health and magic.
   It affects your dexterity (+4).
 s - a +5 ring of evasion (left hand)
 v - an uncursed amulet of warding
 E - an uncursed ring of protection from cold
 G - a ring of protection from fire (right hand)
 J - the ring of the Firefly {rN+ Str+3 Int+5}
   (You found it on level 7 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   [ring of positive energy]
   
   It affects your strength (+3).
   It affects your intelligence (+5).
   It protects you from negative energy.
 N - an uncursed amulet of resist corrosion
 Q - the ring of Uhivvaesa {Dex+3 Int+3}
   (You found it on level 5 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   [ring of dexterity]
   
   It affects your intelligence (+3).
   It affects your dexterity (+3).
 V - the ring "Mnivvy" {rPois rC+}
   (You took it off a deep elf mage on level 3 of the Elven Halls)   
   
   [ring of poison resistance]
   
   It protects you from cold.
   It protects you from poison.
 Y - an uncursed amulet of resist mutation
Potions
 i - 9 potions of curing
 k - a potion of brilliance
 m - 5 potions of might
 r - 3 potions of berserk rage
 z - 3 potions of agility
 D - 3 potions of restore abilities
 M - 2 potions of cure mutation
Miscellaneous
 W - a phial of floods
Rods
 f - a +1 rod of the swarm (11/11)
   (You found it on level 5 of the Realm of Zot)


   Skills:
 + Level 23.8 Fighting
 - Level 8.4 Armour
 - Level 16.1 Dodging
 - Level 2.4 Stealth
 - Level 21.7 Unarmed Combat
 - Level 12.0 Spellcasting
 - Level 12.0 Charms
 - Level 9.0 Translocations
 - Level 9.2 Transmutations
 - Level 10.2 Invocations


You had 15 spell levels left.
You knew the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Apportation           Tloc           #####.....   1%          1    None
b - Shroud of Golubria    Chrm/Tloc      #####.....   1%          2    None
c - Regeneration          Chrm/Necr      ####......   1%          3    None
d - Phase Shift           Tloc           #####.....   6%          5    ####...
e - Summon Butterflies    Summ           #.......     10%         1    None
f - Repel Missiles        Chrm/Air       ####..       1%          2    None
g - Blade Hands           Trmt           #####.....   6%          5    ####...
h - Spider Form           Trmt/Pois      ###.......   3%          3    None
i - Haste                 Chrm           #####...     10%         6    ######.
B - Blink                 Tloc           N/A          1%          2    None
M - Sublimation of Blood  Necr           #.........   12%         2    None
S - Swiftness             Chrm/Air       ####....     1%          2    None


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (1/1) D:7             Orc (4/4) D:11
    Elf (3/3) Orc:4          Lair (8/8) D:11          Swamp (5/5) Lair:6
  Snake (5/5) Lair:4        Slime (6/6) Lair:8       Vaults (4/5) D:14
  Blade (0/1) Vaults:4      Crypt (0/5) Vaults:3        Zot (5/5) Depths:5
 Depths (5/5) D:15       

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Sif Muna
Trog
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One
Jiyva

Shops:
D:11 *   D:12 !   Orc:4 (::*   Elf:1 [   Snake:1 }   Vaults:1 (}
Vaults:3 }}(   Vaults:4 (

Portals:
Hell: Depths:1 Depths:2 Depths:3 Depths:4 Depths:5
Abyss: Depths:2
Pandemonium: Depths:3 Depths:4
Ziggurat: Depths:2

Annotations:
D:4 Edmund
D:6 exclusion: oklob plant
Lair:1 Jorn's ghost, experienced CeHu
Lair:4 exclusion: hydra


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You are immune to rotting.
You have razor-sharp teeth.*
You regenerate.
When hurt, damage is shared between your health and your magic reserves.
Your bite disrupts and absorbs the magic of your enemies.*
Potions and wands cannot restore your HP.


Message History

You see here a leather armour.
There is a stone staircase leading up here.
You climb upwards.
You sense a powerful magical force warping space.
There is a stone staircase leading down here.
Evoke which item? (* to show all) (? for menu, Esc to quit)
Zapping: u - a wand of disintegration
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line
You hear a grinding noise.
Unknown command.
Evoke which item? (* to show all) (? for menu, Esc to quit)
Zapping: u - a wand of disintegration {zapped: 1}
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line
You hear a grinding noise.
Evoke which item? (* to show all) (? for menu, Esc to quit)
Zapping: u - a wand of disintegration {zapped: 2}
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line
You hear a grinding noise.
There is a staircase leading out of the dungeon here.
You have escaped!

   ##.##  #...#.##.#.#####.##..##
  ##...## #...#.##.#.#   ##......
 ##>#.#.###...#.##.#.#    #.#...#
##.#..##.##..........#    #.##.##
......##.##.........##    #.##.##
##.#####.####.#####..######.##.##
 ##.###.#.###.#...#..#...##.##.##
  ##...##.....#...#..#...#..##...
########..#.....@.+..'...#..#####
.........###..#...#..#...#..#   #
########..#...#...####...#.##   #
       ##.....##'######'##.#    #
        ##.#.....##..##....#
         #.#........%......#
         #.#.....##..##....#
         #.#..#########'##.######
         #.#..#...####...#.......


There were no monsters in sight!

Vanquished Creatures
  the royal jelly (Slime:6)
  3 orbs of fire (Zot:5)
  A pandemonium lord (Zot:5)
  4 ancient liches (Zot:5)
  A greater mummy (Depths:3)
  Saint Roka (Depths:1)
  2 curse toes
  Norris (Snake:2)
  3 Killer Klowns
  Mara (Swamp:4)
  5 golden dragons
  2 electric golems (Zot:5)
  3 bone dragons
  An Ice Fiend (D:9)
  21 Orb Guardians (Zot:5)
  11 tentacled monstrosities
  Vashnia (Snake:3)
  6 liches
  A Shadow Fiend (D:8)
  A deep elf master archer (Elf:3)
  12 storm dragons
  20 acid blobs
  3 sphinxes (Depths:5)
  6 tengu reavers
  Rupert (Swamp:5)
  The ghost of ryw the Black Belt, a mighty DsMo of Makhleb (Snake:3)
  Frances (Swamp:2)
  8 azure jellies
  3 Executioners
  6 shadow dragons
  A draconian monk (Zot:2)
  16 fire giants
  10 greater nagas
  Donald (Swamp:2)
  7 frost giants
  A balrug (D:3)
  A ghost moth (Zot:4)
  6 vault wardens
  An iron dragon (Depths:5)
  10 deep elf sorcerers
  4 emperor scorpions
  Aizul (Snake:1)
  Louise (Snake:1)
  A draconian knight (Zot:5)
  3 draconian zealots
  2 octopode crushers (Depths:4)
  A reaper (Elf:3)
  3 draconian annihilators
  9 deep elf demonologists
  3 spriggan defenders (Depths:5)
  23 stone giants
  7 rakshasas
  A green draconian (shapeshifter) (Depths:5)
  3 green draconians
  The ghost of ProjectEKO the Destroyer, a powerful TeCj of Sif Muna (D:14)
  15 deep elf annihilators
  A vampire knight (Depths:5)
  5 grey draconians
  Azrael (Snake:4)
  A yellow draconian (Zot:2)
  2 purple draconians
  3 dire elephants (Depths:5)
  3 mottled draconians
  3 pale draconians
  3 white draconians
  A red draconian (Zot:3)
  2 black draconians
  6 ettins
  4 deep elf death magi
  9 death oozes (Slime:6)
  Snorg (Lair:7)
  3 minotaurs
  A crystal guardian (Vaults:3)
  3 deep elf high priests (Elf:3)
  A blizzard demon (Depths:4)
  A quicksilver dragon zombie (Depths:3)
  6 death cobs
  16 vault guards
  9 yaktaur captains
  15 fire dragons
  12 ironheart preservers
  Fannar (D:15)
  17 ice dragons
  Harold (D:14)
  16 hydras
  2 spriggan air magi (Depths:5)
  5 great orbs of eyes
  15 naga warriors
  A ravenous feature mimic (Depths:1)
  A shambling mangrove (Swamp:3)
  13 ogre magi
  10 deep troll earth magi
  15 anacondas
  2 alligators
  19 death yaks
  9 deep troll shamans
  2 vampire magi
  A spectral elf (Elf:3)
  A spriggan enchanter (Depths:5)
  A tengu warrior (Depths:2)
  4 shock serpents
  15 naga sharpshooters
  2 soul eaters (Depths:3)
  4 spriggan berserkers
  6 very ugly things
  4 sun demons
  21 deep elf knights
  A fire crab (Swamp:5)
  9 centaur warriors
  4 salamander mystics
  5 hell knights
  An ice devil (D:3)
  5 iron trolls
  2 catoblepae
  2 storm dragon skeletons (Vaults:3)
  A shadow demon (D:5)
  2 shadow wraiths
  3 sea snakes (Snake:5)
  A large abomination (Depths:3)
  4 skeletal warriors (Vaults:3)
  6 swamp dragons
  An orb spider (shapeshifter) (Depths:1)
  An unseen horror (shapeshifter) (D:14)
  6 harpies
  16 deep elf summoners
  16 deep trolls
  A gelid demonspawn (Depths:4)
  4 flayed ghosts (Depths:5)
  2 unseen horrors
  12 hill giants
  3 giant orange brains
  A water nymph (shapeshifter) (Depths:5)
  7 ironbrand convokers
  11 orc knights
  14 deep elf conjurers
  Joseph (D:8)
  8 naga ritualists
  A hellion (Elf:3)
  6 orc sorcerers
  10 mana vipers
  4 necromancers
  3 cyclopes
  6 wolf spiders
  An iron dragon zombie (Depths:3)
  2 wizards
  A wolf spider (shapeshifter) (D:14)
  A fire giant zombie (Depths:3)
  3 red wasps
  A frost giant zombie (Depths:3)
  A phantasmal warrior (Vaults:2)
  9 griffons
  A cyclops (shapeshifter) (Elf:1)
  4 manticores
  16 salamanders
  A tengu skeleton (Vaults:3)
  3 sphinx skeletons
  3 small abominations
  10 elephants (Lair:8)
  2 shining eyes
  9 vault sentinels
  2 spriggan zombies (Depths:3)
  32 black mambas
  2 stone giant skeletons (Vaults:3)
  12 moths of wrath
  2 guardian serpents (shapeshifter) (Vaults:3)
  3 human skeletons (Vaults:3)
  2 guardian serpents
  2 smoke demons
  17 spiny frogs
  2 feature mimics
  A spiny frog (shapeshifter) (Vaults:3)
  A vapour (Swamp:4)
  20 naga magi
  3 gargoyles
  2 elf zombies (Depths:3)
  3 kobold demonologists (D:14)
  A fire drake (shapeshifter) (Vaults:3)
  10 fire drakes
  A spriggan skeleton (Depths:3)
  2 centaur zombies
  44 yaktaurs
  2 spriggan druids (Lair:8)
  2 efreet
  4 guardian mummies
  2 iron devils
  23 deep elf priests
  4 giant leeches
  A hellwing (Depths:3)
  6 freezing wraiths
  A red devil (D:3)
  A tengu conjurer (Depths:1)
  A komodo dragon (shapeshifter) (D:15)
  2 baby alligators (Swamp:2)
  10 giant fireflies
  A polar bear (Lair:4)
  24 boggarts
  A yaktaur skeleton (Vaults:3)
  A wind drake (shapeshifter) (Depths:5)
  18 blink frogs
  3 jumping spiders (Vaults:3)
  A jumping spider (shapeshifter) (Vaults:3)
  A raven (shapeshifter) (Vaults:1)
  A demonic crawler (Vaults:3)
  6 komodo dragons
  27 two-headed ogres
  8 trolls
  2 bog bodies
  24 deep elf magi
  67 slime creatures
  14 ravens
  A blink frog (shapeshifter) (Depths:2)
  A raiju (shapeshifter) (Vaults:4)
  4 boulder beetles
  4 redbacks
  15 spriggans
  3 basilisks
  A basilisk (shapeshifter) (Vaults:4)
  10 brown oozes
  A trapdoor spider (shapeshifter) (Vaults:2)
  34 ugly things
  An elf simulacrum (Depths:3)
  3 grizzly bears
  2 ettin skeletons (Vaults:3)
  A spriggan (shapeshifter) (Vaults:2)
  2 tarantellas (Vaults:3)
  2 thorn lotuses
  2 sharks
  5 fire bats (Swamp:5)
  2 vampires (Depths:2)
  A water elemental (Depths:4)
  7 shadows
  2 fire elementals (Snake:4)
  A tarantella (shapeshifter) (Vaults:3)
  28 deep elf fighters
  A ynoxinul (D:8)
  3 wyverns
  2 elephant slugs
  2 hill giant zombies
  A steam dragon (Swamp:5)
  39 yaks
  A hungry ghost (D:15)
  3 wraiths
  28 vampire mosquitoes
  45 nagas
  A tengu zombie (D:13)
  A soldier ant (D:10)
  A soldier ant (shapeshifter) (Vaults:3)
  14 wolves (Lair:8)
  4 wargs
  An ogre zombie (Orc:4)
  11 hippogriffs
  32 water moccasins
  9 porcupines
  16 swamp worms
  2 mottled dragons
  7 swamp drakes
  A deep troll skeleton (Depths:3)
  6 hell hounds (Snake:4)
  2 yellow wasps
  A deep dwarf (Orc:3)
  6 black bears
  4 sky beasts
  A boring beetle (Lair:7)
  62 ogres
  7 giant goldfish
  19 centaurs
  A phantom (D:8)
  24 orc warriors
  7 ice beasts
  2 elf skeletons
  Sigmund (D:3)
  A yaktaur zombie (D:15)
  13 crocodiles
  17 giant frogs
  5 giant slugs
  A lost soul (Vaults:3)
  A salamander zombie (Depths:3)
  6 big kobolds
  7 insubstantial wisps (Swamp:2)
  A cyclops skeleton (D:12)
  4 eyes of draining
  A hippogriff zombie (D:7)
  14 killer bees
  4 scorpions
  A water moccasin skeleton (D:5)
  A troll skeleton (D:13)
  4 electric eels
  4 goliath beetles
  8 crimson imps
  11 jellies
  30 orc wizards
  Crazy Yiuf (D:5)
  2 centaur skeletons
  11 iguanas
  16 orc priests
  10 big fish
  A black bear skeleton (D:6)
  3 iron imps (Depths:1)
  5 orange rats
  11 hounds
  8 worker ants
  11 sheep
  Ijyb (D:3)
  Jessica (D:3)
  A sky beast zombie (D:8)
  An ogre skeleton (D:9)
  11 mummies
  22 adders
  4 gnolls (D:2)
  30 green rats
  3 orc skeletons
  4 shadow imps
  3 giant mites
  4 worms
  3 ufetubi (Elf:3)
  2 adder skeletons
  9 giant eyeballs
  11 giant geckos
  5 oozes
  143 orcs
  2 bat skeletons
  A bat zombie (D:5)
  9 giant cockroaches
  19 hobgoblins
  22 jackals
  6 quokkas
  8 ball pythons
  11 bats
  7 giant newts
  A giant spore (D:8)
  23 goblins
  A hobgoblin zombie (D:5)
  A jackal zombie (D:8)
  36 kobolds
  A quokka skeleton (D:5)
  27 rats
  A rat skeleton (D:5)
  A spectral orc (D:3)
  A ballistomycete (D:8)
  3 butterflies
  5 crawling corpses
  2 fungi
2393 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  A fire giant (Depths:5)
  A death yak (Depths:2)
  A fire crab (Swamp:5)
  A deep elf knight (Elf:3)
  A naga ritualist (Snake:5)
  A spriggan druid (Swamp:5)
  A swamp dragon (Swamp:5)
  2 boggarts (Depths:2)
  A deep elf mage (Elf:3)
  2 steam dragons (Swamp:5)
  A deep elf fighter (Elf:3)
  2 swamp drakes (Swamp:5)
  An ogre (Vaults:3)
  An orc (Orc:4)
  2 orc skeletons (Orc:4)
  11 bushes (Depths:2)
  A fungus (Swamp:5)
  20 plants
51 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 2444 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | ackack, the Vine Stalker Monk, began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 11/11 MP: 1/1
   162 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 16/16 MP: 3/3
   647 | D:1      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 14/19 MP: 4/4
  1037 | D:2      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 19/23 MP: 5/5
  1233 | D:2      | Reached skill level 5 in Unarmed Combat
  1588 | D:3      | Noticed Jessica
  1626 | D:3      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 27/27 MP: 7/7
  1635 | D:3      | Killed Jessica
  1782 | D:3      | Reached skill level 6 in Unarmed Combat
  1840 | D:3      | Noticed Sigmund
  1853 | D:3      | Killed Sigmund
  1853 | D:3      | Gained mutation: You heal very quickly. [vine stalker growth]
  1853 | D:3      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 15/32 MP: 4/8
  2114 | D:3      | Noticed Ijyb
  2123 | D:3      | Killed Ijyb
  2123 | D:3      | Reached skill level 7 in Unarmed Combat
  2412 | D:3      | Found a basalt altar of Yredelemnul.
  2617 | D:4      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 30/35 MP: 9/9
  2641 | D:4      | Noticed Edmund
  2773 | D:4      | Reached skill level 8 in Unarmed Combat
  3013 | D:4      | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 3 turns
  3260 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  3295 | D:5      | Got a brightly glowing dagger
  3296 | D:5      | Identified the +1,+5 dagger "Sterheff" {flame, rF++} (You found it on level 5 of the Dungeon)
  3300 | D:5      | Found a glowing drain.
  3346 | Sewer    | Entered a sewer
  4202 | D:5      | Noticed Crazy Yiuf
  4223 | D:5      | Killed Crazy Yiuf
  4528 | D:6      | Found an iron altar of Okawaru.
  4528 | D:6      | Noticed an oklob plant
  4600 | D:6      | Gained mutation: You have razor-sharp teeth. [vine stalker growth]
  4600 | D:6      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 42/42 MP: 11/11
  4608 | D:6      | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 2 turns
  4611 | D:6      | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 4 turns
  4631 | D:6      | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 4 turns
  4688 | D:6      | Got a smoking ring mail
  4705 | D:6      | Identified the +4 ring mail of Maism {rC+ Stlth+} (You found it on level 6 of the Dungeon)
  4889 | D:6      | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
  4940 | D:6      | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
  5165 | D:6      | Reached skill level 1 in Armour
  5377 | D:6      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 27/47 MP: 9/12
  5460 | D:7      | Reached skill level 9 in Unarmed Combat
  5636 | D:7      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  5647 | Temple   | Entered the Ecumenical Temple
  5712 | Temple   | Became a worshipper of Dithmenos the Shadowed
  5712 | Temple   | Acquired Dithmenos' first power
  6363 | D:8      | Reached skill level 5 in Armour
  6383 | D:8      | Noticed Joseph
  6421 | D:8      | Killed Joseph
  6421 | D:8      | Reached skill level 10 in Unarmed Combat
  6446 | D:8      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 48/51 MP: 13/13
  6531 | D:8      | Acquired Dithmenos' second power
  6742 | D:8      | Found a glowing golden altar of the Shining One.
  6893 | D:9      | Learned a level 1 spell: Apportation
  6896 | D:9      | Learned a level 2 spell: Swiftness
  7128 | D:9      | Found a deep blue altar of Sif Muna.
  7341 | D:9      | Found a snail-covered altar of Cheibriados.
  7417 | D:9      | Reached skill level 11 in Unarmed Combat
  7599 | D:10     | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
  8036 | D:10     | nifty
  8276 | D:10     | Killed an unseen horror
  8276 | D:10     | Reached XP level 11. HP: 48/55 MP: 15/15
  8277 | D:10     | Found a portal to a secret trove of treasure.
  8288 | D:10     | Reached skill level 12 in Unarmed Combat
  8471 | D:10     | Acquired Dithmenos' third power
  8501 | D:11     | Reached skill level 1 in Spellcasting
  8704 | D:11     | Found a staircase to the Lair.
  8722 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts
  8881 | Lair:1   | Got a smoking crossbow
  8882 | Lair:1   | Identified the +6,+11 crossbow "Reurhaxt" {frost, rN+ MR+ Str+4} (You found it on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts)
  8883 | Lair:1   | wooo
  9077 | Lair:1   | Learned a level 2 spell: Shroud of Golubria
  9081 | Lair:1   | Learned a level 3 spell: Regeneration
  9138 | Lair:1   | Noticed Jorn's ghost (experienced CeHu)
  9164 | Lair:1   | You fall through a shaft!
  9445 | Lair:2   | Acquired Dithmenos' fourth power
  9680 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 5 in Spellcasting
 10301 | Lair:4   | Gained mutation: You regenerate. [vine stalker growth]
 10301 | Lair:4   | Reached XP level 12. HP: 51/60 MP: 27/27
 10556 | Lair:4   | Found a staircase to the Snake Pit.
 10666 | Lair:4   | Noticed an eight-headed hydra
 10914 | Lair:4   | Learned a level 2 spell: Blink
 10916 | Lair:4   | Learned a level 1 spell: Summon Butterflies
 11019 | Lair:5   | Noticed a six-headed hydra
 11050 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 10 in Dodging
 11081 | Lair:5   | Identified a scroll of acquirement
 11128 | Lair:5   | Got a transparent lapis lazuli ring
 11129 | Lair:5   | Identified the ring of Uhivvaesa {Dex+3 Int+3} (You found it on level 5 of the Lair of Beasts)
 11206 | Lair:5   | Killed a six-headed hydra
 11229 | Lair:5   | Noticed an eight-headed hydra
 11233 | Lair:5   | Killed an eight-headed hydra
 12167 | Lair:7   | Noticed Snorg
 12193 | Lair:7   | Killed Snorg
 12292 | Lair:7   | Got a steaming bone ring
 12293 | Lair:7   | Identified the ring of the Firefly {rN+ Str+3 Int+5} (You found it on level 7 of the Lair of Beasts)
 12295 | Lair:7   | Gained mutation: You have a pair of small antennae on your head. [potion of beneficial mutation]
 12296 | Lair:7   | hm
 12457 | Lair:7   | Reached skill level 1 in Charms
 12531 | Lair:7   | Noticed a seven-headed hydra
 12537 | Lair:7   | Reached XP level 13. HP: 70/70 MP: 30/30
 12543 | Lair:7   | Killed a seven-headed hydra
 12615 | Lair:8   | Entered Level 8 of the Lair of Beasts
 12959 | Lair:8   | Noticed an acid blob
 12976 | Lair:8   | Reached skill level 5 in Charms
 12987 | Lair:8   | Reached skill level 13 in Unarmed Combat
 13072 | Lair:8   | Noticed an acid blob
 13351 | Lair:8   | Reached skill level 1 in Translocations
 13727 | Lair:6   | Found a staircase to the Swamp.
 13770 | Lair:6   | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 4 turns
 13776 | Lair:6   | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 3 turns
 13995 | Lair:1   | Learned a level 5 spell: Phase Shift
 14027 | D:11     | Noticed a four-headed hydra
 14041 | D:11     | Killed a four-headed hydra
 14066 | D:11     | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
 14094 | Orc:1    | Entered Level 1 of the Orcish Mines
 14400 | Orc:3    | Noticed Sonja
 14443 | Orc:3    | Reached XP level 14. HP: 39/75 MP: 19/31
 14829 | Orc:3    | Noticed Sonja
 14829 | Orc:3    | Sonja changed into Sonja the deep dwarf
 14836 | Orc:3    | Killed Sonja the deep dwarf
 14836 | Orc:3    | Reached skill level 14 in Unarmed Combat
 14879 | Orc:4    | Entered Level 4 of the Orcish Mines
 14879 | Orc:4    | Found a staircase to the Elven Halls.
 15030 | Orc:4    | Reached skill level 5 in Translocations
 15400 | Orc:4    | Found Ycrap's Weapon Shoppe.
 15400 | Orc:4    | Found Bohewky's Book Boutique.
 15522 | Orc:4    | Found Nileisib's Book Boutique.
 15522 | Orc:4    | Found Kafof's General Store.
 15532 | Orc:4    | Bought a scroll of teleportation for 33 gold pieces
 15534 | Orc:4    | Bought a book of Changes for 400 gold pieces
 15534 | Orc:4    | Bought a book of Air for 560 gold pieces
 15553 | Orc:4    | Learned a level 2 spell: Repel Missiles
 15778 | Orc:4    | Paralysed by an orc sorcerer for 3 turns
 16073 | D:11     | Found Twaoga's Serpentskin Sales.
 16407 | D:12     | Learned a level 5 spell: Blade Hands
 16544 | D:12     | Found Shraeff's Distillery.
 16560 | D:12     | Bought a potion of resistance for 98 gold pieces
 16560 | D:12     | Bought a potion of mutation for 35 gold pieces
 16560 | D:12     | Bought a potion of poison for 14 gold pieces
 16560 | D:12     | Bought a potion of confusion for 14 gold pieces
 16702 | D:12     | Reached skill level 15 in Unarmed Combat
 17617 | D:14     | Reached skill level 1 in Transmutations
 17635 | D:14     | Reached XP level 15. HP: 79/79 MP: 32/32
 17719 | D:14     | Noticed ProjectEKO's ghost (powerful TeCj)
 17733 | D:14     | Killed ProjectEKO's ghost
 17817 | D:14     | Noticed Harold
 17839 | D:14     | Killed Harold
 18145 | D:14     | Found a gate to the Vaults.
 18220 | D:14     | Reached skill level 16 in Unarmed Combat
 18338 | D:14     | Reached skill level 5 in Transmutations
 18440 | D:15     | Entered Level 15 of the Dungeon
 18441 | D:15     | Found a staircase to the Depths.
 18441 | D:15     | Noticed a fire giant
 18442 | D:15     | hmm
 18563 | D:12     | Learned a level 3 spell: Spider Form
 18972 | Swamp:1  | Entered Level 1 of the Swamp
 19069 | Swamp:1  | Paralysed by a red wasp for 3 turns
 19072 | Swamp:1  | Paralysed by a red wasp for 2 turns
 19641 | Swamp:2  | Noticed Frances
 19659 | Swamp:2  | Killed Frances
 19717 | Swamp:2  | Noticed Donald
 19735 | Swamp:2  | Killed Donald
 19847 | Swamp:2  | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting
 20332 | Swamp:3  | Reached XP level 16. HP: 65/86 MP: 29/32
 21321 | Swamp:5  | Entered Level 5 of the Swamp
 21323 | Swamp:5  | Noticed Rupert
 21367 | Swamp:5  | Noticed Mara
 21368 | Swamp:5  | nice swamp:5
 21389 | Swamp:4  | Killed Mara
 21480 | Swamp:5  | Killed Rupert
 22171 | Swamp:5  | Got a decaying rune of Zot
 22543 | Lair:1   | ha
 22552 | Lair:1   | Learned a level 6 spell: Haste
 22650 | Snake:1  | Entered Level 1 of the Snake Pit
 22650 | Snake:1  | Noticed Louise
 22668 | Snake:1  | Killed Louise
 22753 | Snake:1  | Found Muar's Gadget Emporium.
 22762 | Snake:1  | Noticed Aizul
 22782 | Snake:1  | Killed Aizul
 23335 | Snake:2  | Noticed Norris
 23707 | Snake:2  | Reached skill level 10 in Spellcasting
 23904 | Snake:2  | Killed Norris
 23968 | Snake:2  | Reached XP level 17. HP: 90/94 MP: 23/35
 24072 | Snake:2  | Got a heavily runed lead amulet
 24073 | Snake:2  | Identified the amulet "Zerif" {Spirit Dex+4} (You found it on level 2 of the Snake Pit)
 24623 | Snake:3  | Noticed Vashnia
 24832 | Snake:3  | Noticed ryw's ghost (mighty DsMo)
 24869 | Snake:3  | Killed ryw's ghost
 25508 | Snake:3  | Killed Vashnia
 25707 | Snake:4  | Noticed Azrael
 25730 | Snake:4  | Killed Azrael
 25933 | Snake:4  | Found a shadowy altar of Dithmenos.
 26605 | Snake:5  | Entered Level 5 of the Snake Pit
 27194 | Snake:5  | Reached XP level 18. HP: 60/102 MP: 29/36
 27792 | Snake:5  | Reached skill level 15 in Fighting
 28113 | Snake:5  | Got a serpentine rune of Zot
 28505 | Vaults:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Vaults
 28861 | Vaults:1 | Found a gateway to a bazaar.
 28915 | Bazaar   | Entered a bazaar
 28915 | Bazaar   | Found Skuenur's Distillery.
 28927 | Bazaar   | Found Khoqusmygug's Antique Armour Shop.
 28947 | Bazaar   | Found Romausin's Antique Weapon Shop.
 28956 | Bazaar   | oh right
 28970 | Bazaar   | Bought 2 potions of haste for 266 gold pieces
 28970 | Bazaar   | Bought a potion of curing for 38 gold pieces
 28970 | Bazaar   | Bought a potion of curing for 38 gold pieces
 28970 | Bazaar   | Bought a potion of curing for 38 gold pieces
 28997 | Bazaar   | Bought the +4 robe of Night {+Inv MR+ SInv Stlth+} for 890 gold pieces
 29026 | Vaults:1 | Found Unotro's Weapon Emporium.
 29341 | Vaults:1 | Found Clumumoc's Gadget Shop.
 30007 | Vaults:2 | Reached XP level 19. HP: 68/109 MP: 21/36
 30793 | Vaults:2 | Got a pitted lapis lazuli ring
 30794 | Vaults:2 | Identified the ring "Fovvay" {+/*Tele rF+ Stlth+} (You found it on level 2 of the Vaults)
 30795 | Vaults:2 | nifty
 31138 | Vaults:3 | Found Izxeiff's Gadget Shop.
 31447 | Vaults:3 | Found Kla Mani's Weapon Boutique.
 31650 | Vaults:3 | Found Gyom's Gadget Emporium.
 31784 | Vaults:3 | Reached skill level 17 in Fighting
 31792 | Vaults:3 | Found a staircase to the Crypt.
 31972 | Vaults:3 | Got a faintly humming shield
 31979 | Vaults:3 | Identified the +3 shield of Resourcefulness {rC+ Int+3} (You found it on level 3 of the Vaults)
 32069 | Vaults:3 | Reached skill level 10 in Charms
 32445 | Vaults:3 | Reached XP level 20. HP: 102/117 MP: 37/37
 33006 | Vaults:4 | Found a staircase to the Hall of Blades.
 33061 | Vaults:4 | hmm
 33232 | Vaults:4 | Found Gheon's Antique Weapon Emporium.
 33541 | Vaults:4 | Reached skill level 18 in Fighting
 34165 | D:15     | Killed a fire giant
 34262 | D:15     | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog.
 34464 | D:15     | Noticed Fannar
 34473 | D:15     | Killed Fannar
 34610 | Depths:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Depths
 34698 | Depths:1 | Noticed Saint Roka
 34798 | Depths:1 | Killed Saint Roka
 35072 | Depths:1 | Reached XP level 21. HP: 106/123 MP: 38/38
 35618 | Depths:1 | Found a gateway to Hell.
 35762 | Depths:2 | why so many goddamn boggarts
 35882 | Depths:2 | gah
 36229 | Depths:2 | Found a one-way gate to the infinite horrors of the Abyss.
 36379 | Depths:2 | Found a gateway to a ziggurat.
 36486 | Depths:2 | charming
 37104 | Depths:3 | Found a one-way gate leading to the halls of Pandemonium.
 37737 | Depths:3 | Noticed a greater mummy
 37754 | Depths:3 | Killed a greater mummy
 38108 | Depths:4 | Reached XP level 22. HP: 104/128 MP: 39/39
 38147 | Depths:4 | Noticed a golden dragon
 38154 | Depths:4 | Killed a golden dragon
 38209 | Depths:4 | Reached skill level 19 in Unarmed Combat
 38250 | Depths:4 | Noticed a golden dragon
 38271 | Depths:4 | Killed a golden dragon
 38292 | Depths:4 | Upgraded the game from 0.15-a0-60-g2d7d1c5 to 0.15-a0-63-gaa0591c
 38584 | Depths:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Depths
 38812 | Depths:5 | Reached skill level 20 in Unarmed Combat
 38939 | Depths:5 | Found a gate to the Realm of Zot.
 38945 | Depths:5 | ah
 39020 | Depths:5 | Found a burning altar of Makhleb.
 39020 | Depths:5 | Found a burning altar of Makhleb.
 39020 | Depths:5 | Found a deep blue altar of Sif Muna.
 39359 | Depths:5 | Reached skill level 21 in Unarmed Combat
 39554 | Depths:5 | Reached XP level 23. HP: 129/133 MP: 38/40
 40652 | Lair:8   | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits.
 40652 | Lair:8   | Noticed an acid blob
 40670 | Lair:8   | Killed an acid blob
 40672 | Lair:8   | Killed an acid blob
 40677 | Lair:8   | Killed an acid blob
 40682 | Slime:1  | Entered Level 1 of the Pits of Slime
 40794 | Slime:2  | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 2 turns
 41004 | Slime:6  | Entered Level 6 of the Pits of Slime
 41013 | Slime:6  | Gained mutation: Your vision is a little blurry. [a shining eye]
 41015 | Slime:6  | gah
 41075 | Slime:6  | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 4 turns
 41261 | Slime:6  | Noticed the royal jelly
 41261 | Slime:6  | oops
 41295 | Slime:6  | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 4 turns
 41320 | Slime:6  | Found a viscous altar of Jiyva.
 41431 | Slime:6  | Killed the royal jelly
 41431 | Slime:6  | Reached skill level 15 in Dodging
 41431 | Slime:6  | Reached XP level 24. HP: 122/140 MP: 40/40
 41480 | Slime:6  | bleh
 41489 | Slime:6  | Got a slimy rune of Zot
 42172 | Elf:1    | Entered Level 1 of the Elven Halls
 42431 | Elf:1    | Found Nebodudd's Armour Emporium.
 42445 | Elf:1    | Bought a +2 cloak for 261 gold pieces
 42871 | Elf:2    | Found a burning altar of Makhleb.
 43303 | Elf:2    | Identified the Disquisition on Flamy Confrontation
 43469 | Elf:3    | Entered Level 3 of the Elven Halls
 44483 | Elf:3    | Got a bloodstained scale mail
 44486 | Elf:3    | Identified the +0 scale mail "Ghoeca" {rElec Int+4 Dam+4} (You took it off a deep elf high priest on level 3 of the Elven Halls)
 44532 | Elf:3    | Lost mutation: You have a pair of small antennae on your head. [potion of cure mutation]
 44532 | Elf:3    | Lost mutation: Your vision is a little blurry. [potion of cure mutation]
 44537 | Elf:3    | Got an ancient golden ring
 44616 | Elf:3    | Identified Cirim's Guide on Darkness (You found it on level 3 of the Elven Halls)
 44642 | Elf:3    | Got a flickering turquoise ring
 44736 | Elf:3    | oooo
 44758 | Elf:3    | Upgraded the game from 0.15-a0-63-gaa0591c to 0.15-a0-82-g8db4111
 44766 | Elf:3    | Identified the ring "Froloo" {SustAb rPois rN+ Dam-3} (You took it off a deep elf priest on level 3 of the Elven Halls)
 44766 | Elf:3    | Identified the ring "Mnivvy" {rPois rC+} (You took it off a deep elf mage on level 3 of the Elven Halls)
 46186 | Depths:5 | Got a fine silver ring
 46187 | Depths:5 | Identified the ring "Nozuluza" {rC+ Dex-1 Stlth++} (You took it off a yaktaur captain on level 5 of the Depths)
 46287 | Depths:5 | Reached skill level 1 in Invocations
 46292 | Zot:1    | Entered Level 1 of the Realm of Zot
 46578 | Zot:3    | Noticed a curse toe
 46602 | Zot:3    | Reached XP level 25. HP: 148/148 MP: 41/41
 46610 | Zot:3    | Reached skill level 5 in Invocations
 46621 | Zot:3    | Killed a curse toe
 47408 | Trove    | Entered a treasure trove
 47683 | Elf:1    | Bought a +0 pearl dragon armour for 1800 gold pieces
 48936 | Zot:5    | Entered Level 5 of the Realm of Zot
 48991 | Zot:5    | Identified a +1 rod of the swarm (11/11) (You found it on level 5 of the Realm of Zot)
 49150 | Zot:5    | Learned a level 2 spell: Sublimation of Blood
 49318 | Zot:5    | Noticed an ancient lich
 49326 | Zot:5    | Killed an ancient lich
 49372 | Zot:5    | Reached skill level 10 in Invocations
 49436 | Zot:5    | Noticed an orb of fire
 49457 | Zot:5    | Killed an orb of fire
 49459 | Zot:5    | Noticed an orb of fire
 49459 | Zot:5    | Noticed an orb of fire
 49506 | Zot:5    | Noticed an ancient lich
 49769 | Zot:5    | Killed an orb of fire
 49776 | Zot:5    | Killed an orb of fire
 49776 | Zot:5    | Reached XP level 26. HP: 113/156 MP: 41/41
 49779 | Zot:5    | Reached skill level 22 in Fighting
 49835 | Zot:5    | hmm
 50008 | Zot:5    | Noticed an ancient lich
 50042 | Zot:5    | Killed an ancient lich
 50054 | Zot:5    | Killed an ancient lich
 50170 | Zot:5    | Reached skill level 23 in Fighting
 50268 | Zot:5    | Got the Orb of Zot
 50292 | Zot:5    | Noticed Waneanlu the pandemonium lord
 50324 | Zot:5    | Noticed Zyot the pandemonium lord
 50324 | Zot:5    | Noticed an ancient lich
 50335 | Zot:5    | Killed Zyot the pandemonium lord
 50346 | Zot:5    | Killed an ancient lich
 50866 | D:6      | Noticed Gatis the pandemonium lord
 51081 | D:$      | Escaped with the Orb!
             

Vault maps used:
D:1:      dpeg_arrival_houses_and_road, minmay_fountain_box, feat_on_display
D:3:      serial_park_square1, yredelemnul_forgotten_temple_becter,
          eino_tiny_chamber, kennysheep_crisscross, uniq_jessica, uniq_iyjb,
          uniq_sigmund
D:4:      kennysheep_small_square, uniq_edmund
D:5:      first_bread, portal_sewer_entry_f, uniq_crazy_yiuf_cottage
D:6:      lemuel_oklob_altar
D:7:      minmay_temple_entry_trees, grunt_ogre_cave, corexii_hall_statues_u
D:8:      kennysheep_mini_moat, solitary_fountain, uniq_joseph
D:9:      lemuel_doored_altar, beetle_altar_1
D:10:     nicolae_trove_entry_path_of_doom
D:11:     orc_0_dummy, minmay_lair_entry_lava, guppyfry_shop_venom
D:12:     serial_shops, shop
D:13:     serial_undead, serial_undead_d, serial_undead_c, serial_undead_e,
          serial_undead_c
D:14:     erik_vaults_2, bh_walls_and_bars, uniq_harold
D:15:     grunt_enter_depths_giant_problem, minmay_misc_feat_doors,
          grunt_ministairs_13, trog_ov_bears_minmay, uniq_fannar
Temple:   circular_temple_pool_12
Orc:1:    minmay_orc_temple_a
Orc:3:    nicolae_orc_pool_cavern, uniq_sonja
Orc:4:    st_orc_ogre_mass
Elf:1:    eino_elf_arrival_sip, serial_shops, nicolae_shop_window_shopping,
          sword_in_stone
Elf:2:    basic_altar, minmay_elf_sorcery
Elf:3:    minmay_elf_hall_spiked, grunt_megastairs_4
Lair:1:   lemuel_strawberry_fields
Lair:2:   lemuel_strawberry_fields, infiniplex_staircase_pool
Lair:3:   serial_bayou_lagoon_b
Lair:4:   guppyfry_snake_entry_garden
Lair:5:   infiniplex_staircase_pool_2
Lair:6:   minmay_swamp_entry_eels, grunt_forest_large_clearings
Lair:7:   lemuel_strawberry_fields, uniq_snorg
Lair:8:   minmay_lair_end_enchanted_forest, slime_altar_2, serial_bayou_shore_b
Swamp:1:  wheals_swamp_sinkhole
Swamp:2:  evilmike_swamp_ruin_house_3, swamp_pool1,
          nicolae_swamp_trees_clearing, uniq_donald, uniq_frances
Swamp:3:  evilmike_swamp_ruin_house_2
Swamp:4:  evilmike_swamp_ruin_house_4
Swamp:5:  swamp_fiery, swamp_pool1, grunt_witch_cave, uniq_jorgrun, uniq_mara,
          uniq_rupert
Snake:1:  serial_shops, nicolae_shop_stone, uniq_aizul, uniq_louise
Snake:2:  lightli_airlock, lemuel_fruit_tree, serial_bayou_shore_b, uniq_norris
Snake:3:  uniq_vashnia
Snake:4:  basic_altar, uniq_azrael
Snake:5:  snake_pit, serial_bayou_lagoon_a, guppyfry_snake_island
Slime:2:  nicolae_slime_round_cave
Slime:5:  nicolae_slime_phagocytosis
Vaults:1: v_misc_28, dpeg_vaults_monster_row, vaults_room_door_hall,
          ontoclasm_vaults_twist, vaults_room_door_ring, vaults_room_door_ring,
          serial_shops, bzr_entry_customers, shop_fountains,
          nicolae_shop_waterfront
Vaults:2: hangedman_vaults_stitches, hangedman_vaults_unwind,
          grunt_vaults_trifunnel, v_misc_14,
          vaults_room_grunt_arrival_checkpoint, v_rooms_2,
          nicolae_vaults_yaktaur_gun_rack, st_star, grunt_vaults_hallway_short
Vaults:3: minmay_crypt_entry_skeletal_spiral, vaults_dpeg_spiral,
          grunt_vaults_funnel, hangedman_vaults_locks, vaults_mumra_hex,
          v_misc_2, ontoclasm_vaults_gateway, nicolae_vaults_border_crossing,
          grunt_vaults_hallway_long, ontoclasm_vaults_idyll,
          nicolae_vaults_shelves_hall, serial_shops, shop, shop, shop
Vaults:4: vaults_room_hallway, v_misc_24, hangedman_vaults_nodes,
          vaults_mumra_chevron_long, nicolae_vaults_ring_of_whatevers, v_misc_2,
          nicolae_vaults_blade_armed_guards, v_misc_26, vaults_room_hallway,
          serial_shops, shop, serial_glass
Zot:2:    st_large_dragon_hoard_1
Zot:3:    hangedman_zot_spectrum
Zot:4:    st_stairs_2, grunt_ministairs_7
Bazaar:   bazaar_jpeg_cross
Trove:    trove_wands_scrolls
Sewer:    sewer_co_scattered_pipes
Depths:1: grunt_hell_entry_dis_mu, minmay_statues_item, grunt_ministairs_11,
          kennysheep_inner_square, uniq_saint_roka
Depths:2: hangedman_cross_stitches, enter_ziggurat_d, minmay_hedge_maze,
          hell_entry, abyss_entry, minmay_holes, stair_cage_cross, aerie_lemuel
Depths:3: lemuel_minitomb, hellmouth_1, pan_entry, abandoned_shop
Depths:4: evilmike_cross, rand_demon_pan_entry_5, hangedman_geh_valley,
          serial_bayou_shore_a, abyss_entry_crystal, minmay_stone_trees_small
Depths:5: hangedman_slaughterboxes, hell_entry

Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 | 19-21 | 22-24 | 25-27 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Unarmed           |   113 |   168 |   498 |   879 |  1753 |  1521 |  2107 |  1318 |   528 ||  8885
 Fire: Blowgun           |       |       |    18 |    23 |    12 |     4 |       |     1 |       ||    58
Throw: Throwing net      |       |     1 |     2 |       |       |       |       |       |       ||     3
       Tomahawk          |       |       |     2 |     4 |       |       |       |       |       ||     6
       Javelin           |       |       |       |     3 |     2 |     1 |       |       |       ||     6
 Cast: Phase Shift       |       |       |       |       |    18 |    58 |    44 |    61 |    27 ||   208
       Repel Missiles    |       |       |       |       |     3 |    16 |    10 |     6 |     4 ||    39
       Regeneration      |       |       |       |       |     2 |    47 |    27 |    44 |    27 ||   147
       Shroud of Golubri |       |       |       |       |     2 |     3 |       |       |       ||     5
       Blade Hands       |       |       |       |       |       |    24 |     5 |    16 |    36 ||    81
       Blink             |       |       |       |       |       |     3 |       |       |       ||     3
       Apportation       |       |       |       |       |       |     2 |     1 |       |     2 ||     5
       Haste             |       |       |       |       |       |       |     1 |     6 |     3 ||    10
Invok: Shadow Step       |       |       |       |       |     1 |       |       |       |       ||     1
       Shadow Form       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     1 ||     1
 Abil: End Transformatio |       |       |       |       |       |     9 |     2 |     8 |    33 ||    52
       Evoke Teleportati |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     1 ||     1
Evoke: Wand              |       |       |     2 |     6 |    15 |     1 |     3 |     2 |    11 ||    40
  Use: Scroll            |     4 |     8 |     7 |    18 |     7 |    18 |     6 |     8 |    15 ||    91
       Potion            |       |       |       |     1 |     4 |     6 |     2 |     3 |     6 ||    22
 Stab: Sleeping          |     6 |     4 |    10 |    28 |    32 |    20 |    29 |    31 |     6 ||   166
       Fleeing           |       |       |       |     2 |       |       |       |       |       ||     2
       Distracted        |       |       |       |     1 |     2 |     2 |     8 |     9 |     2 ||    24
       Petrifying        |       |       |       |       |       |       |     1 |       |       ||     1
       Petrified         |       |       |       |       |       |       |     1 |       |       ||     1

[basil]

It's good to see that you've provided an explanation on how you handle them alongside your response.

Zap them with 0-skill wands, herofinesse, Makh servants, Fedhas shrooms, Lucy banish, run away while wielding a lantern, just punch them if you're buff, other things I've forgotten about. Or walk away.

For Tr which I'm pretty sure is the only race that gets head-chopping claws by default, you can also throw large rocks.

[SaidTheAlligatorKingToHisSon]

I'd basically never make any --Mo skilling/god choices based on hydras.
...
Zap them with 0-skill wands, herofinesse, Makh servants, Fedhas shrooms, Lucy banish, run away while wielding a lantern, just punch them if you're buff, other things I've forgotten about. Or walk away.

For Tr which I'm pretty sure is the only race that gets head-chopping claws by default, you can also throw large rocks.

I'm going to concentrate on TrMo here, as you are correct that Tr is the only race with chopping claws by default and thus has hydra issues. Because you're a Tr and UC is the best choice by far, you kinda have to deal with this at some point. Also I'm assuming you've rolled Swamp, as otherwise hydras can just be avoided until you're buff.

The underlined are skilling/god choices. Also in trunk un-id'd wands run out of charges very quickly and cannot be used to deal with all the hydras you'll encounter. Note that you can find a useful rod though some rodshowever rod of clouds requires skilling to be useful, a non-trivial investment for a Tr). As a Tr if you find large rocks, you'll want to train some throwing. You can get by with a bit (or none) but 8 or so throwing makes things comfortable. TrMo may also want to train shields to help with hydras, but usually you want to get shields regardless on a Tr due to crap defense.

When playing as a TrMo, depending on what I find I'll make skilling changes to deal with hydras whenI roll Swamp. TrMo that doesn't roll Swamp or other Mo don't need to in my experience. A very narrow subset of Mo, but one I've played the crap out of so I felt obliged to go into detail.

[basil]

The underlined are skilling/god choices.

That are not based on hydras. I'd train invo for finesse and banish to not waste my god choice, not because of things in Lair.

As for Swamp, it's been a while but I think that you're buff enough then to just punch them to death. But if Swamp isn't easy I'd prefer to do the other branch with most characters (and which will be easy for Tr) because I dislike water.

[Sandman25]

Hydra has EV 5 so there is no much need to train Throwing for it.

Results for starting TrMo.

  Code:

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.15.1
Attack: Troll Monk vs. seven-headed hydra (4000 rounds) (2014/10/22/23:30:01)
Troll Monk: XL 1   Str 18   Int 6   Dex 12
Quivering: 30 large rocks {=f}, Skill: Throwing
seven-headed hydra: HD 13   AC 0   EV 5

  Throwing | AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
         0 |     11.3 |     26 |      78% |   8.8 |   100  |  1.00 |      8.8
         1 |     11.8 |     27 |      79% |   9.4 |    98  |  1.02 |      9.6
         2 |     12.4 |     29 |      79% |   9.8 |    96  |  1.04 |     10.2
         3 |     13.3 |     30 |      79% |  10.6 |    94  |  1.06 |     11.3
         4 |     13.7 |     32 |      79% |  10.8 |    93  |  1.08 |     11.6
         5 |     14.2 |     33 |      79% |  11.3 |    91  |  1.10 |     12.4
         6 |     14.5 |     34 |      79% |  11.6 |    89  |  1.12 |     13.0
         7 |     15.3 |     35 |      81% |  12.6 |    87  |  1.15 |     14.4
         8 |     16.1 |     37 |      80% |  13.1 |    85  |  1.17 |     15.4
         9 |     16.5 |     38 |      81% |  13.4 |    83  |  1.20 |     16.2
        10 |     17.2 |     39 |      81% |  14.0 |    82  |  1.23 |     17.1
        11 |     17.6 |     41 |      82% |  14.4 |    80  |  1.26 |     18.0
        12 |     18.1 |     43 |      81% |  14.7 |    78  |  1.29 |     18.8
        13 |     18.6 |     43 |      80% |  15.0 |    76  |  1.32 |     19.8
        14 |     19.1 |     45 |      83% |  15.9 |    74  |  1.35 |     21.5
        15 |     19.8 |     46 |      82% |  16.3 |    72  |  1.38 |     22.6
        16 |     20.5 |     48 |      82% |  16.9 |    70  |  1.42 |     24.1
        17 |     20.8 |     49 |      82% |  17.1 |    69  |  1.46 |     24.8
        18 |     21.5 |     50 |      82% |  17.8 |    67  |  1.50 |     26.5
        19 |     22.4 |     52 |      83% |  18.8 |    65  |  1.54 |     28.9
        20 |     22.8 |     53 |      82% |  18.8 |    63  |  1.59 |     29.8
        21 |     23.8 |     54 |      84% |  20.0 |    61  |  1.64 |     32.8
        22 |     23.9 |     56 |      83% |  19.9 |    59  |  1.69 |     33.7
        23 |     24.7 |     57 |      82% |  20.5 |    57  |  1.74 |     35.9
        24 |     24.9 |     58 |      83% |  20.8 |    56  |  1.80 |     37.2
        25 |     25.6 |     60 |      83% |  21.5 |    54  |  1.87 |     39.8
        26 |     26.7 |     61 |      84% |  22.5 |    52  |  1.93 |     43.3
        27 |     27.0 |     63 |      83% |  22.6 |    50  |  2.00 |     45.3


[KoboldLord]

I'd basically never make any --Mo skilling/god choices based on hydras.

It's good to see that you've provided an explanation on how you handle them alongside your response.

Have you tried walking away? I wouldn't try clearing one of the hydra endings of Swamp without a re-usable hydra killing method, but in Lair itself you're generally not going to find too many positions where you can't just lead a hydra to a remote area and then use a hatch, stairwell, or teleport trap to leave it there.

At the very least, this is not such a grave threat to your continued existence that you have to spent a god slot on fixing it, what with that slot being one of the rarest and most precious resources in the game since you can only ever have one at a time. Better to use that god slot to solve multiple problems at once.

[damiac]

Something I did on my trolls to deal with hydras was to check out all the axes and swords for a flaming one. 0 skill flaming short sword or hand axe will do just fine, even better if you have hero.

Aside from that, wands are a good choice, throw javelins or large rocks, whack them with 0 skill GSC(Or any blunt weapon), use whatever god abilities you have that work, evokables, or, failing all that, run away until you do have one or more of these options.

It's not worth planning a build around hydras, but it's not a bad idea to make some kind of plan for them.

[Sphara]

I'd totally go UC on CeMo, have you actually played that?

Yeah sticky, you have a good point. UC centaur is powerful.

Still, I tend to look for some melee weapon for Ce. Coz basically i will get the first shortbow playing any Ce (if i want to win) i can find and start training for Bows and that said i wont be using a shield. If i get an early spellbook as a CeMo giving me a chance to become a transmuter, yes then i would think twice of getting a melee weapon skill.

I have to give it to you: you are right. Unarmed CeMo is VERY nice even without transmutations during the early game.
Just finding a blowgun makes a UC centaur character basically guaranteed to reach the Lair.

What the hell, finding a blowgun makes most characters survive the earlygame. If they do not meet too many orc priests.

[Sandman25]

Something I did on my trolls to deal with hydras was to check out all the axes and swords for a flaming one. 0 skill flaming short sword or hand axe will do just fine, even better if you have hero.

It's dangerous as there can be weapons of distortion.