Hunter questions

[Ratboiler]

hi all,

i want to start a Cenatur hunter character, but i'm not sure about using crossbow or bows. What are the (dis)advantages of both?
Also, what would be the stat distribution of either of them? I think xbow need more strength, but not sure how much more.

For ammo, i think i'll just pick up either Trog or Oka. So i'm sure not to run out of ammo for a while. Not sure what other god could be good with hunter either.

Armour wise, i guess in the end i will try and pickup some fire dragon armour?

Thanks in advance!

[tedric]

Don't know much about launcher stat requirements, but you'll probably want to bump both strength and dex a fair amount no matter what. As a centaur you'll probably be doing a fair amount of melee combat and not too much casting.

My general understanding is that bows give better returns on lower skill investments, and crossbows give better returns on heavier skill investment. Also crossbows are rare in the early dungeon, and so is their ammo; bows and arrows are more common.

In the early dungeon you need to conserve ammo no matter what, at least until you have a stack of more than a few dozen. Both Trog and Oka will only start gifting ammo after you (a) find an altar and (b) gain a bunch of piety, so for the first 5+ floors you've got to stretch what you have and hope for floor drops. Luckily as a centaur you'll be in pretty good shape to melee a lot of early monsters anyway.

But honestly now that weight limits are gone I feel like there is way more ammo in the game than there needs to be, to the point where you needn't rely on god gifts at all probably. On my recent CeHu^Oka 3-rune win, I had hundreds and hundreds of surplus arrows; if I had stopped picking them up entirely during the mid-game I wouldn't have even come close to running out through the Orb Run. Oka and Trog are still awesomely powerful gods, but plenty of others could work. Also you can't use launchers while berserk, so keep that in mind if you do go Trog.

I think heavy armour is generally recommended for a CeHu but don't put much effort into "in the end" plans, armour or otherwise -- as with all things Crawl, each game will go its own way long before you get to "in the end" and you should be ready to adapt.

[duvessa]

Don't know much about launcher stat requirements, but you'll probably want to bump both strength and dex a fair amount no matter what. As a centaur you'll probably be doing a fair amount of melee combat and not too much casting.

What? Ratboiler asked for advice on a ranged combat character. Why would it be doing a lot of melee combat? And what would it have to do with stats?
Stats do the same thing for launchers that they do for melee, now. Raising both str and dex makes no sense on a centaur, they already start with all the str they will ever need for dodging so you are basically looking at spell success, dodging, and a small damage increase. Probably if you don't use Trog I would just increase int every time for convenience (surely you're at least getting charms) since you have the worst dodging in the game anyway, obviously you would get dex and dodging instead if you do go with Trog (but unless you're trying to get a specific high score or win every background, I don't know why you wouldn't just start a berserker if you want Trog).

But honestly now that weight limits are gone I feel like there is way more ammo in the game than there needs to be, to the point where you needn't rely on god gifts at all probably.

Weight removal did not affect ammo generation at all. (The destruction rate for large rocks was increased a while after removing weight, but that's about it.)

[KoboldLord]

The most important difference between bows and crossbows is that centaurs drop functionally infinite arrows and yaktaurs drop functionally infinite bolts. Either launcher can be used to kill everything handily with less xp invested than any other build. If you aren't yet to the point in the game where you have infinite ammo, try to lure your victims into a cleared area so you can circle around and refill your quiver without picking up more followers. This is a standard thing you should do if you're running melee or conjurations, too, but it's also important for archers.

[tedric]

Ratboiler asked for advice on a ranged combat character. Why would it be doing a lot of melee combat?

Probably for the same reasons that caster backgrounds end up doing a fair amount of melee combat.

Weight removal did not affect ammo generation at all.

But it did affect how much you can carry at one time. Before, it was possible to run out of the ammo you were carrying and have to backtrack to pick up more; that tedium was somewhat mitigated by the high rate of ammo generation. Now the surplus just stays with you forever, getting larger and larger to the point of absurdity. Anyway my point to Ratboiler was that there is enough ammo in the game that you don't need god gifts to supplement it, and in practice this is even more noticeable without weight limits.

[Siegurt]

Ratboiler asked for advice on a ranged combat character. Why would it be doing a lot of melee combat?

Probably for the same reasons that caster backgrounds end up doing a fair amount of melee combat.

Weight removal did not affect ammo generation at all.

But it did affect how much you can carry at one time. Before, it was possible to run out of the ammo you were carrying and have to backtrack to pick up more; that tedium was somewhat mitigated by the high rate of ammo generation. Now the surplus just stays with you forever, getting larger and larger to the point of absurdity. Anyway my point to Ratboiler was that there is enough ammo in the game that you don't need god gifts to supplement it, and in practice this is even more noticeable without weight limits.

I've never run out of ammo I was carrying in a given encounter and had to backtrack for it, ever. With weight limits I could carry 200-500 arrows (depending on str) this was a completely meaningless drawback. If your complaint is "Now it's less tedious because when I get under 100 arrows because I don't have to backtrack to refill" it seems like an odd complaint. If you somehow ran out of 200 arrows in a single encounter, you were definitely doing something wrong.

I *have* on the other hand run out of *total* arrows in the game when running a pure-ranged combat strat, however that was a long time ago, back when I thought it was practical to only use bows and never attack anything with a melee weapon ever, however that was back when I was much less efficient at playing the game, and I suspect someone playing a reasonable ranged-combat focused (but not exclusive) character would get through a 3 runed game with no gifts.

I have also run out of "vanilla" unbranded ammo in a game where I had a really nice branded launcher of some sort, when I had plenty of branded ammo from gifts, again though, that's the exception rather than the rule.

[Eyesburn]

Not sure what other god could be good with hunter either.

Zin maybe

[tedric]

Not sure what other god could be good with hunter either.

Zin maybe

Seems like Lucy would also be nice, since you can easily put a bit of distance between you and enemies. Or Ash, whose skill boosts and are helpful for just about anyone, though you might want to keep your weapon slot unbound so you can have a melee swap. Or...

[nago]

Fedhas

[tasonir]

The default is definitely okawaru. It's a clear fit, and you don't really need haste when you're a centaur with finesse, so it's easy to highly train your ranged weapon. Plenty of other gods work, but if you want simple and powerful, okawaru.

[Patashu]

Q: Which god (Hunter)?
A: Dithmenos

[Ratboiler]

Thanks for the advice. I took it on the 'safe' side and tried CeHu of Oka. and won