Switching from Trog to Ash

[Doc Brown]

I like starting out as berserker, as it pretty much guarantees that my character will get off the ground. Unfortunately the tactical limitations make the game a bit boring once I get past the early game, so I've been toying with the idea of using Ash to turn my tanks into, well, spellcasting tanks.

My only experience with switching gods was when I took my MfCr from Oka to TSO before starting the post-endgame. Okas wrath was nothing but a minor nuisance at that point. From what I've gathered, Trogs wrath is much worse. I'm familiar with the common strategies that are used to wait out Trogs wrath, but how necessary is that? Hiding behind some rats and waiting it out just seems a bit too metagamey for me. Admittedly my plan of going from Trog to Ash is already metagamey in itself, so I won't complain if that's the only way to do that. I don't have the means for cTele, so unfortunately that's not an option. But is the frequency of Trogs wrath effects high enough to make these strategies necessary for survival?

Also, when is the best time to switch? Obviously it doesn't matter that much if you just hide and wait it out as long as you've got enough permafood available. However in terms of skill development, should I wait until say fighting and armour are at certain values?

Also also, how long does it take to max Ash piety, assuming max boundedness (is that a word)?

For a concrete example:

I've got a L16 Kenku Berserker who's absolutely dominating at this point and is self sufficient enough to survive even the nastier uniques without calling Trogs Hand and BiA. If I could get him to cast spells he'd probably as close to invincible as a Kenku can get (at least in my mind). My XP pool is just overflowing, the only way to reduce it is to stand near a bat and lean on s. I feel like that XP could be used much better for victory dancing spells. Is it a bad idea to do the switch now?

  Code:

Svengali the Severer (Kenku Berserker)             Turns: 33341, Time: 02:58:24

HP 110/110       AC 14     Str 18      Exp: 16/146366 (11562), need: 39533
MP  18/18        EV 23     Int 16      God: Trog [*****.]
Gold 1988        SH 20     Dex 19      Spells:  0 memorised, 17 levels left

Res.Fire  : . . .   See Invis. : .    p - +0,+4 broad axe (elec) {god gift}
Res.Cold  : . . .   Warding    : . .  a - +4 ring mail
Life Prot.: . . .   Conserve   : .    b - +0 dwarf buckler
Res.Acid. : . . .   Res.Corr.  : .    t - +1 wizard hat {Int+3}
Res.Poison: .       Clarity    : .    q - +0 cloak
Res.Elec. : .       Spirit.Shd : .    l - +1 pair of dwarf gloves
Sust.Abil.: . .     Stasis     : .    (boots unavailable)
Res.Mut.  : .       Ctrl.Telep.: .    H - amulet of rage
Res.Rott. : .       Levitation : +    x - +3 ring of dexterity
Saprovore : . . .   Ctrl.Flight: +    C - +1,+5 ring of slaying

@: flying, very slightly glowing, hasted, very quick, somewhat resistant to
hostile enchantments, quite stealthy
A: able to fly continuously, beak, talons 3, Dex +1
a: Stop Flying, Burn Spellbooks, Berserk, Trog's Hand, Brothers in Arms,
Renounce Religion, Evoke Berserk Rage


You are on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts.
You worship Trog.
Trog is exalted by your worship.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 5 branches of the dungeon, and seen 33 of its levels.

You have collected 2519 gold pieces.
You have spent 551 gold pieces at shops.

 You have 21562 experience left.

   Skills:
 + Level 13 Fighting
 - Level 18 Axes
 + Level 9 Armour
 + Level 12 Dodging
 + Level 7 Stealth
 - Level 3 Stabbing
 + Level 10 Shields
 + Level 2 Traps & Doors
 - Level 7 Unarmed Combat
 + Level 1 Spellcasting
 - Level 1 Evocations

[lucy_ferre]

I've abandoned Trog a few times. I either hide or play regularly with a means of escape. If you're going to hide you should have rings of sustenance and an amulet of faith, along with a ton of food.

- Drawing a Tomb card (did it with my last character).
- Standing at the end of a corridor and drawing a Warpwright card (teleport trap).
- Standing above deep water with a permanent source of levitation.
- Blink and teleport control.

I prefer escaping, because waiting around 35k turns is boring. Angry gods tend to punish you every few thousand turns.

[Doc Brown]

Thank you for the reply! I never thought of using a tomb card, as I tend to ignore decks unless I follow Nemelex. I chose not to hide, but since I don't have any means of cTele this means I usually have to confront Trogs summons. So far things have been working out quite well, that is to say, I'm still alive.

At what point in the game do you usually abandon Trog? I felt L16 was neither here nor there, I probably could have dropped him a good bit earlier.

[lucy_ferre]

The earliest I usually abandon a god is around LV15.

[majcrew35]

Out of curiosity, what spells are you picking up that make this worth it?

[7hm]

Out of curiosity, what spells are you picking up that make this worth it?

I usually get haste / dsml (or rsml) / controlled blink in addition to whatever else. The times I've gone ash I've either gone crusader style (using ash to make the transition much quicker) or created tornado casting melee machines. Controlled blink is huge though.

[majcrew35]

I have an XL 18 KoBe in the same boat. Been saving books etc in case I decide to switch, but honestly with only 8 intelligence I don't think I can pull it off. Certainly can't be a tornado machine, and even haste and controlled blink are beyond reasonable expectation. Do people have a favorite race for pulling this trick off? I've heard high elf, and the OP obviously went Kenku.

[slowcar]

Do people have a favorite race for pulling this trick off? I've heard high elf

I have a High Elf like this currently, i was feeling to get nowhere with Okawaru after the standard 3 runes and decided to switch to TSO.
Casting Tornado on Great in a 20AC armour now, i don't think the Ziggurat would have been survivable without major spellcasting.
You can see this char in my story thread linked in my signature.

As a Berserker the transition is much more difficult because Int is a neglected stat, and to get the hunger under control you need quite some of it.
I've seen Trogs Wrath on Webtiles some times, 6 Raging Stone Giants are a bit more difficult than the 2 Titans+x Oka throws at you.

[lucy_ferre]

I managed to turn a dumb as bricks KoBe into a tornado casting death machine. I focused on spellcasting, charms, air magic, and translocations. It takes awhile though.

Oh, I forgot to mention that giants in 0.8 can swim in deep water. Meaning you'd have to levitate over lava, which is harder to find.