Dithmengos advice thread

[Lasty]

So we've already got a thread in GDD discussing the new god of shadows from a design perspective. I'd like to also have some discussion about the new god from an advice perspective. I'll kick it off with some tips I've noticed:

* Your shadow mimic does considerably more damage than you with launchers and thrown weapons if you do not have the corresponding skills trained. So, while throwing a javelin with 0 skill is normally a way to get in a little extra damage, Shadow Mimic can turn it into a surprisingly effective attack.

* Shadow Mimic melee seems to be way more effective with heavier weapons, which means that short blades users can make good use of Umbra to stab, but have a larger incentive than usual to crosstrain into long blades for heavy non-stab melee damage.

* If you regenerate well and/or have Cure Poison, you can intentionally self-poison in order to become a fog-generating machine. I'm not sure when this would be most useful, but it might be worth keeping in mind.

[Siegurt]

I played a venom mage ^Dith, OTR was actually a little annoing sometimes, because I would occasionally self-poison and generate fog, preventing me from seeing the targets I wanted to poison, making OTR slightly less effective, although it was probably a boon way more often than it was a drawback.

[1010011010]

Umbra does not impede undead, but does decrease accuracy of natural and demonic creatures. Bleed fog blocking LOS with the enemy also stops your summons attacking, but not necro'd minions. With this in mind Summoning is less useful than necromancy when it comes to providing allies.

[Amnesiac]

shadow mimic attacks distract your enemies, so you can land some extra stabs sometimes, if you are agile and your stabbing skills are decent. And if you are a spriggan/hastened, then you can safely melee-kite any normal speed monster while geting some opportunities for stabbing(preferably with a quickblade/short blade of speed).

Also, I haven't tried it yet, but Dith is probably good for any damage dealer, especially mages, since he mimics your spells.

Also, shadow step is almost like a free scroll of blinking for a purpouse of stabbing which is amazing for killing uniques and tough enemies. Still, if you have a lot of guys in your LoS they might wake up.

[Roderic]

How is the presence of shadows on a foe decided/computed? I'm not able to step on everybody everywhere in my umbra radius

[pratamawirya]

How is the presence of shadows on a foe decided/computed? I'm not able to step on everybody everywhere in my umbra radius

You can only shadow-step on a sleeping foe. Yeah, I know, it confused me the first time also.

[Sar]

Wouldn't paralysis work too?

[dck]

Para and petrification work, but not netting.

[cerealjynx]

Shadows Step, Silence, then stabs. Silence gets rid of monsters shouting when they wake up.

Dith can make any species 'uncannily stealthy' with very little investment. A sneaky troll is awesome!

[Lasty]

Keep in mind that Silence also significantly lowers your stealth rating and costs you a turn during which your target may wake up.

[diviton]

Shadows Step, Silence, then stabs. Silence gets rid of monsters shouting when they wake up.

Dith can make any species 'uncannily stealthy' with very little investment. A sneaky troll is awesome!

I don't necessarily agree with this. Silence lowers your stealth and if anything is surviving your tier 1 stabs, then you're training your skills wrong, IMO.

[Lasty]

Barehanded combat seems to do poor damage when mimicked by Shadow Mimic. Also, the hellfire ability that some demonspawn receive does trigger penance under Dithmengos, so between claws and fire facets it seems like Dith is a pretty bad god for demonspawn.

Oddly, fire-based summons such as balrugs from demonic guardian facet don't piss off Dith.

[Amnesiac]

I think Dith is a bit too strong for casters. Your shadow casts spells quite well so you get something like a free enhancer or better. Atm Dith seems to be better than Veh for even a pure caster, which is strange design-wise since Veh is a god of destruction. Funny thing that your shadow sometimes makes petrification instant by casting it again.

[and into]

Barehanded combat seems to do poor damage when mimicked by Shadow Mimic. Also, the hellfire ability that some demonspawn receive does trigger penance under Dithmengos, so between claws and fire facets it seems like Dith is a pretty bad god for demonspawn.

Oddly, fire-based summons such as balrugs from demonic guardian facet don't piss off Dith.

Eh, in general I don't think demonspawn mutation should affect your god choice, any more than getting claws (unless you get to level 2 really early) will affect your weapon choice. Good to know that barehanded apparently doesn't fare as well, I'll have to check that out. I imagine the difference between demonic guardian and hellfire is that one is something you choose to do, while the other isn't.

Does Dith dislike Summon Demon or Summon Greater Demon? (I don't have access to Trunk wizmode at the moment.)

[crate]

Well with other gods (e.g. TSO) and summons that can generate an ally that the god does not approve of (shadow creatures trying to make a necromancer for instance) the summon gets vetoed and it tries to create a different summon instead. So probably this same treatment should apply here.

[and into]

Well with other gods (e.g. TSO) and summons that can generate an ally that the god does not approve of (shadow creatures trying to make a necromancer for instance) the summon gets vetoed and it tries to create a different summon instead. So probably this same treatment should apply here.

Well, there's a few different precedents though. TSO used to disallow Shadow Creatures because it could produce forbidden allies; apparently that was changed recently. However, Chei still disapproves of /random effects, rather than just blocking haste from it. Probably just suppressing forbidden results from the random pool would be best, I suppose.

By the way, does anyone know off the top of his or her head how Shadow Creatures spell (or scroll of summoning) under TSO works in, say, Crypt or Tomb? Does it draw from dungeon 15/16 or just not work, or what?

[crate]

Shadow creatures fails with TSO in crypt, presumably because there are no legal summons.

[duvessa]

It's best in Tomb:

[Sar]

Shouldn't TSO hate trapdoor spiders too? They're poisonous. Or do you mean, in general?

[dck]

I don't speak moon but aren't those sphinxes

[Sar]

Sphinxes are H (or Q in some configs I saw, because a lot of things use H glyph - from hippogrifs to tengu reavers).

[dck]

that crushes my dreams of free sphinxes a bit.

[Sar]

I think Shadow Creatures picks from "normal" area spawns, and sphinxes don't spawn randomly in Tomb.

[duvessa]

Shouldn't TSO hate trapdoor spiders too? They're poisonous. Or do you mean, in general?

Nope, that's with TSO.