Weapon choice for a VpVM

[Sprucery]

I have an XL 20 VpVM of Ash, who has so far been stabbing things with a +6 dagger of flame. It's obviously great for stabbing (!!!!!-stabs) but I'm in trouble with large skeletons etc. if I can't stab them. So I'm considering upgrading the weapon to get some more non-stabbing damage. No quick blades have been found so far (cleared D:20, Shoals, Spider, Vaults 1 - 2 (3 has Jory, 4 has Mennas)).

My current best bet is a +1,+2 sabre of speed. A sabre of venom and some short swords (freezing, draining, others) are available. I have several EW scrolls, so I could get at least a +5 weapon. I've been thinking I don't want to burn more EW scrolls on that current dagger. I don't have the dump with me, but IIRC relevant stats are Str:8, Dex:15, Short Blades: 15, Fighting: 10, Stealth: 19. No slaying rings or other slaying gear.

Should I just enchant that sabre of speed and switch to it? I haven't found a single scroll of acquirement or brand weapon yet. Hall of Blades hasn't been found due to Jory and Mennas. Or should I wait until I find a quick blade or acquirement? I could do more D and then Elf. I could also magic map Vaults 3 and 4 to see I could get in the Hall of Blades.

[nago]

Without a dump is hard to give a proper advice, but judging from you description you lack of invis and other good hexes to deal with sinvis enemies. If that so, you can't actually hope to steadily rely on stabbing to clear the dungeon - even with amazing vp stealth apts. In that case, considering that long blade crosstrain and they're surely better than a sabre of speed, I'd rather grab a good ego scimitar (it's highly probable at least one spawned) and use it to deal direct damage.

[Sprucery]

Thanks for the advice. I'm still going to go with short blades, though, as stabbing is so much fun. I also have a ring of invisibility, which has stayed cursed on my finger ever since I got my first scroll of curse jewellery.

I realize that I can't stab everything and I have some offensive spells (Sting, Mephitic Cloud, Venom Bolt, Airstrike, Lighting Bolt) and other spells (Phase Shift, Haste, Deflect Missiles, Swiftness, Controlled Blink, Apportation, Summon Butterflies). So I can kill for example those skeletons with LB if necessary. I just don't like the noise it makes, so I'd rather use my weapon against stuff that isn't a priority to kill fast.

You're right no doubt that the sane thing to do would be to go long blades. However, in this game I'm going to pretend long blades don't exist What I'm going to do with stuff like OoFs if I get that far is a good question. I can get Bolt of Cold and Freezing Cloud, maybe they help a bit.

[Sar]

If you have a ring of invis stabbing skeletons should be trivial.

[Sprucery]

The problem is that when I sneak up on a group of monsters and start stabbing everyone to death, invis wears off at some point. Now I would like to finish the remaining monsters immediately without having to retreat, wait for the contamination to go off, go invis again etc. This is why I think upgrading my dagger could be useful (also for some things that see invis).

[Lasty]

Regarding OoFs, both freezing cloud and bolt of cold do cold damage, which OoFs resist. On the plus side, bolts of fire such as the ones used by OoFs are terminated on contact with a freezing cloud. Still, you'll want Iron Shot, Orb of Destruction, or some other non-elemental damage to use against OoFs if you plan to fight them.

If you want to invis-stab monsters to death faster, you can train Stealth or short blades to increase your effective Stabbing level. Alternately, you can make peace with the need to retreat when things are becoming unfavorable.

[Sprucery]

Oh yes, I totally forgot they resist cold too. I wouldn't like to take Iron Shot, because I've invested in Air (although with Ash that would be possible). Is OoD good for killing OoFs? Surely it misses a lot? Maybe I should just not try to fight them (if that moment comes).

I will definitely train more Stealth and Short Blades from time to time. But with regard to my original question, I guess I'll wait until I've found a scroll of brand weapon. I guess that sabre of speed is not that hot.

[Tedronai]

Oh yes, I totally forgot they resist cold too. I wouldn't like to take Iron Shot, because I've invested in Air (although with Ash that would be possible). Is OoD good for killing OoFs? Surely it misses a lot? Maybe I should just not try to fight them (if that moment comes).

Orb of Destruction is sufficient to kill orbs of fire.

[Sar]

Unless they come close for whatever reason, then it can be problematic.

[Lasty]

Training Air isn't necessarily a reason not to train Iron Shot. You can cast it with just Conjurations, and you can boost the power with a staff of conjurations. Also, if you're going Ash, as you say, even one level of Earth skill will turn into something like 5-6 levels thanks to Ash's magic bonus.

[Sprucery]

...but I won't be switching to the staff, because I want to keep my dagger cursed in my hand. But it may well be I will learn Iron Shot anyway, I'll leave that decision for later.

[Amnesiac]

You can kill OoFs by passwalling sometimes, consider that, too.

[and into]

...but I won't be switching to the staff, because I want to keep my dagger cursed in my hand. But it may well be I will learn Iron Shot anyway, I'll leave that decision for later.

Assuming you already have good Ash piety and enough other stuff cursed to ensure net piety gain over time, the only boost that having a dagger cursed is going to give you is a skill boost to short blades, which while nice is hardly needed. For now keep it, if you want, but if you do want to get some conjurations backup, and have a staff of conjurations, keeping your weapon hand free is almost certainly a better decision. If you have good books with summoning spells in them that will work extremely well with stabbing on a Vp, too, as a backup. If you already have some conjurations and hexes, and have access to it, dazzling spray is a great spell for stabbers too btw.

You shouldn't be worrying about elemental aptitude penalties (in general), but especially with Ash's skill boosts you really, really shouldn't be worrying about them.

[Sprucery]

I know I don't need to keep the dagger cursed. I just like to stay fully bound with Ash. I guess it's a kind of a role-playing aspect. As you may have already seen, I tend to burden myself with extra challenges and not go for optimal play. Also good point about summonings. However, in this game I'm trying to stay away from them (except for them lovely butterflies) because I don't want Shadow Creatures to be my OoF solution again (it was the last couple of times).

Passwall is worthy of serious consideration, yes. Btw. I just realized that I haven't found Iron Shot yet. There is a book of Annihilations for sale, but I guess LCS is a bit too much.

Thanks to everyone for the solid pieces of advice. The fact that I don't follow all of them shouldn't be taken as a sign of disrespect

Meanwhile I learned Freezing Cloud. Both Sojobo and Saint Roka went down with its help. Scary moment: tried to sneak up on Sojobo and two of his reaver buddies. They notice me and multizap me with lightning: lost 85 of my 143 HP in a single turn. Time to retreat and recuperate. Picked them off one by one later. FC is very nice with Ash monster detection. Now on D:23. Current plan is to do D to 27 or until I run into too much trouble. Then Elf.

[Amnesiac]

Btw, I used to have this idea to use imps for distracting and stabing OoFs, but never tried it out.
And don't forget that you can dig a wall that is too thick if you leave one tile, because if you dig through, it makes some noise.