The ultimate tank: Armour + Dodging + Shields

[calebnoble]

Minotaurs are skilled at Armour, Dodging and Shields, and I have this irresistible urge to try training all three at once. Probably not the greatest strategy but I love the idea. So let's say I manage to get all 3 skills maxed out and am wearing gold dragon armour and a large shield (never mind how -- I'm still working on this part of the plan). Will it have been worth it to sink all that XP into Dodging, or will the massive EV penalties make it relatively useless?

[Moose]

I think Mountain Dwarves are aptly more suited for this. If you're wearing GDR, you probably wont notice dodging (it wont train) at all. So, anything you put into dodging is probably a waste.

I recently won with a MDFi of Okawaru, and once you have a good shield and decent armor, you really are a walking tank. Still, it's easy to get obliterated by overconfidence.

[eith]

it wont work at all, the penalty for gda is way to high. Assuming max all skills, 30 str and 9 dex, youll have a great 11 ev. A pretty crappy trade for the incredible amount of xp youd have to dump into dodging.

[TwilightPhoenix]

Probably would work best to get 27 Armor/Shield and then get a bunch of EV bonuses from jewelry, randarts, and the occasional mutation. It'd take a lot of luck, however.

That or opt for a more middle of the road armor so Dodging still has some effect.

[Zicher]

Following is a part of my MiFi winner dump:

  Code:

Zicher the Conqueror (Minotaur Fighter)           Turns: 197302, Time: 15:37:16

HP 286/286       AC 42     Str 32      Exp: 27/4176933 (9565)
MP  33/33        EV 19     Int  7      God: The Shining One [******]
Gold 7842        SH 56     Dex 19      Spells:  0 memorised, 28 levels left

Res.Fire  : + + +   See Invis. : +   a - +9 Blessed Blade {god gift}
Res.Cold  : + + +   Warding    : . . B - +10 plate mail {rPois}
Life Prot.: + + +   Conserve   : +   L - +3 large shield {from Mennas}
Res.Acid. : + . .   Res.Corr.  : +   w - +1 wizard hat "Ytyishig" {god gift, rF+ rC++}
Res.Poison: +       Clarity    : .   N - +2 cloak {rCorr, Cons}
Res.Elec. : +       Spirit.Shd : .   C - +2 pair of gauntlets {Dex+3}
Sust.Abil.: . .     Stasis     : .   d - +1 pair of elf boots {run} {god gift}
Res.Mut.  : .       Ctrl.Telep.: +   E - amulet "Arab" {cFly +Inv rElec rC++ MR}
Res.Rott. : .       Levitation : .   J - ring of Messenger {cTele rF++ SInv}
Saprovore : . . .   Ctrl.Flight: +   i - ring of Griem {rC+ MR Str+3 Int+2 Acc-2}

 + Level 23 Armour
 + Level 17 Dodging
 * Level 27 Shields



Note that I was wearing plate armour, which did not give me enough chances to train my Armour all the way to 27.

Assuming a +1 in EV for +1 in Dodging and +1 in AC for +1 in Armour (don't know if this calculation is exact), I'd end up with AC 46, EV 29 and SH 56.
Quite nice numbers - but I'd have to spend another several hours in Pan .

Thus, the OP is certainly not far away from truth.
Don't know how would the number look like with a fully enchanted GDA, assuming the rest of equipment to be the same. Anyone care to take the calculation?

[eith]

You have abnormally high dex though zicher. It would indeed get you up to 29 ev. I was assuming based on a normal game, anything is possible if you want to scum pan long enough

[Zicher]

You have abnormally high dex though zicher. It would indeed get you up to 29 ev. I was assuming based on a normal game, anything is possible if you want to scum pan long enough

Well, for me it was a normal game, before I had to scum that Pan - more details to the story can be found here .

[calebnoble]

it wont work at all, the penalty for gda is way to high. Assuming max all skills, 30 str and 9 dex, youll have a great 11 ev. A pretty crappy trade for the incredible amount of xp youd have to dump into dodging.

I tried crunching the numbers myself using the wiki ... I'm sure I'm screwing up somewhere (and the wiki may not be up to date anyway), but what I came up with was

EV = 10 + size + (7 * Dodge * Dex) / (20 * AEVP - size) - AEVP - ASP
which if you assume dodge = 27, dex = 9, EVP = 9, size = 0 (not sure if this is right for Minotaurs) gives
EV = 10 + 0 + (7 * 27 * 9) / (20 * 18/5 - 0) - 18/5 - 11/5
or about 28.

I'm pretty sure this isn't correct, but where is it wrong?

[omndra]

Tanks don't dodge they Block.
However if you do manage to get a character with at least 30 Ac Ev and Shield you should name him Goku.

[OneTrueFelid]

Kobold may be better; it starts with higher Str (in return for less Dex) than a Halfling and thus can wear heavier armours with impunity.

[Ashery]

Tanks don't dodge they Block.
However if you do manage to get a character with at least 30 Ac Ev and Shield you should name him Goku.

For my current character: AC 50, EV 24, SH 37.

Close enough?

Here's the kicker, these are his current skill levels: Armor 12, Dodging 13, Shield 15.

Oh, and he had over 300hp until I had to play mutation roulette to get rid of some berserkitis that he acquired sometime down in Zot. Ended up dropping from 20% to 10% bonus hp, so now he's in the mid 290's.

As the icing on the cake, he cast's controlled blink at excellent.