Who benefits most from Ashenzari?

[rcnr]

I started a MfTm and was lacking a good god. Okawaru is boring and his gear will be mosty useless to me, Plus I already have enough skills without Invo. Sif makes the early game easy by blunting TM miscasts and will give me all the books I will most likely not need, and is also boring.

What do you give the background that has everything? Slotless clarity and skill boosts, I guess.

It turns out, Ashenzari is not only very fun to play, but also really useful in a way that isn't just pumping up your relevant numbers. Curse management isn't really a big deal since it replaces ID management, and passive mapping + Scry has already allowed me to avoid three very dangerous situations, and I only got it a handful of floors ago.

My question is, what are some not-terrible classes and backgrounds that can benefit more from Ashenzari then from a more conventional god? I'm not good at all, so combos that are reasonably successful are prefered.

[rchandra]

stabbers such as SpEn get great benefits from the monster detection, particularly with passwall. in 0.13 the stabbing boost is also good.

Characters with poor magic aptitudes such as Ogres really appreciate the aptitude-independent skill boosts. OgNe is my personal favourite, I also recently won a MiGl of Ashenzari who mostly used magical staff melee.

Mummies love clarity any way they can get it, and also like the skill boosts.

[crate]

do you like skills? do you like having more skills? then ash is the god for you

[Utis]

I have played Ash only two times so far. One was my second win, the other one a HaWr who got killed because of a combination of hubris and lousy MR. That hubris had a reason, though: that character was at lv 18 well on the way to become a full stabber/melee/blaster hybrid with high EV; and what he couldn't murder in its sleep, he could murder with bolt of fire, poison arrow and his quickblade. So I'd say Ash is really good for hybridization, because that way you get the most out of his skill bonus.

[ZipZipskins]

As far as I'm concerned Ashenzari is a great god for literally anyone. If you want more skills and much, much more information about the dungeon around you as you go through it, Ash is what's up.

SpEn of Ash, though, that's something special for sure.

[Davion Fuxa]

Ashenzari is good for any character, but some Gods are better in certain circumstances. I'd take Mahkleb on Transmuters for example since that seems like more of a complimentary God for the background, or I would like Vehumet or Sif Muna for more Caster-Centered characters.

However, the real question is if you feel Ashenzari is a compliment to the current combination you are playing and if they Altar has appeared early or not.

[tcjsavannah]

Earth Elementalists. Being able to kill uniques without ever seeing them enter your LOS is special.

[crate]

Earth Elementalists. Being able to kill uniques without ever seeing them enter your LOS is special.

This is really hard to do in recent versions since you don't damage things on the other side of walls unless you break the wall.

[rcnr]

Sorry if I'm derailing, but another Ash question: Is it worth it to curse an amulet of faith?

I will have all jewelry slots bound if I do, plus shield, weapon, and partial armor (2/3 slots on a spriggan) so it's not like i'm progressing slowly, and the only benefit besides skills is more scrying uses.

[Davion Fuxa]

Sorry if I'm derailing, but another Ash question: Is it worth it to curse an amulet of faith?

I will have all jewelry slots bound if I do, plus shield, weapon, and partial armor (2/3 slots on a spriggan) so it's not like i'm progressing slowly, and the only benefit besides skills is more scrying uses.

A character dump would be useful in seeing what your character looks like. What god are you using, do you have any other amulets worth considering, how far into the game are you?

[BlackSheep]

...curse...

...bound...

...scrying....

[rcnr]

  Code:

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.11.2-android (console) character file.

SpEn the Unseen (Spriggan Enchanter)               Turns: 16051, Time: 03:08:21

HP  51/51        AC  5     Str  8      XL: 12   Next: 47%
MP  21/34        EV 34     Int 18      God: Ashenzari [****..]
Gold 301         SH 16     Dex 21      Spells:  3 memorised, 24 levels left

Res.Fire  : . . .   See Invis. : +   a - +2 dagger (curse) {=f}
Res.Cold  : . . .   Warding    : .   y - +2 robe {MR} (curse)
Life Prot.: . . .   Conserve   : .   o - +0 elf buckler (curse)
Res.Poison: .       Res.Corr.  : .   (helmet restricted)
Res.Elec. : .       Clarity    : +   m - +1 elf cloak (curse)
Sust.Abil.: . .     Spirit.Shd : .   (gloves unavailable)
Res.Mut.  : .       Stasis     : .   (boots unavailable)
Res.Rott. : .       Ctrl.Telep.: .   (no amulet)
Saprovore : . . .   Levitation : .   s - cursed +0,+4 ring of slaying
                    Ctrl.Flight: .   g - cursed +4 ring of dexterity

@: very quick, very resistant to hostile enchantments, incredibly stealthy
A: unfitting armour, see invisible, deformed body, herbivore 3, speed 3, slow
metabolism 2, Str +1
a: Scrying, Renounce Religion


You are on level 6 of the Lair of Beasts.
You worship Ashenzari.
Ashenzari is extremely pleased with you.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 3 branches of the dungeon, and seen 15 of its levels.
You have also visited: Labyrinth, Sewer, Ossuary and Ice Cave.

You have collected 876 gold pieces.
You have spent 595 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 a - a cursed +2,+2 dagger (weapon) {=f}
Armour
 m - a cursed +1 elven cloak (worn)
 o - a cursed +0 elven buckler (worn)
 y - a cursed +2 robe of magic resistance (worn)
 F - a +1 elven robe of cold resistance
Magical devices
 w - a wand of lightning
 A - a wand of magic darts {zapped: 4}
Comestibles
 h - 2 bread rations
 j - an apple
Scrolls
 c - a scroll of enchant weapon I
 f - 2 scrolls of curse jewellery
 i - a scroll of blinking
 k - 2 scrolls of fear
 r - 4 scrolls of remove curse
 t - 3 scrolls of teleportation
 u - 2 scrolls of curse armour
 v - 2 scrolls of magic mapping
 H - a scroll of identify
 I - a scroll of curse weapon
 J - a scroll of fog
Jewellery
 g - a cursed +4 ring of dexterity (left hand)
 s - a cursed +0,+4 ring of slaying (right hand)
 B - a +1 ring of strength
 C - an uncursed ring of sustain abilities
 K - an uncursed amulet of faith
Potions
 b - a fuming purple potion
 d - 2 potions of might
 e - 2 potions of porridge
 l - 4 potions of curing
 n - a potion of speed
 q - 2 potions of heal wounds
 x - 2 potions of berserk rage
 z - a potion of magic
 G - a potion of agility
Books
 p - a Necronomicon {highlevel}   
   This book is beyond your current level of understanding.
   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   Borgnjor's Revivification          Necromancy                   7
   Haunt                              Necromancy/Summoning         7
   Death's Door                       Charms/Necromancy            8
   Necromutation                      Transmutation/Necromancy     8
Magical staves
 E - an uncursed staff of cold
Rods
 D - a +2 rod of destruction [lightning,fireball,iron] (10/10)
   (You found it in a labyrinth)


   Skills:
 - Level 1.1(3.1) Short Blades
 - Level 1.1 Throwing
 + Level 14.4(16.3) Dodging
 + Level 15.8(18.1) Stealth
 - Level 11.0 Stabbing
 + Level 3.0(5.0) Shields
 + Level 12.1 Spellcasting
 - Level 10.0(12.1) Hexes


You have 24 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
b - Ensorcelled Hibernat  Hex/Ice        #####..      1%          2    None
c - Confuse               Hex            #######..    1%          3    None
d - Invisibility          Hex            #######..    10%         6    ######.


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (8/27)             Temple (1/1) D:7            Lair (6/8) D:8
 Spider (0/5) Lair:3     
   Orc: D:6-11       Swamp: Lair:3-6    Shoals: Lair:3-6     Snake: Lair:3-6
 Slime: Lair:6-8   

Altars:
Ashenzari
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Kikubaaqudgha
Okawaru
Trog
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
the Shining One

Shops:
D:6: (  D:7: %!

Annotations
D:3 SpEn's ghost, average SpEn
Lair:1 exclusion: door


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You are tiny and cannot use many weapons and most armour.
You have supernaturally acute eyesight.
You are a herbivore.
You cover ground extremely quickly.
You need consume almost no food.
Armour fits poorly on your strangely shaped body.
Your muscles are strong (Str +1).


Message History

Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
Aiming: Ensorcelled Hibernation
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f - eight-headed hydra
Aim: an eight-headed hydra
The eight-headed hydra easily resists.
Casting: Ensorcelled Hibernation
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
Aiming: Ensorcelled Hibernation
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f/p - eight-headed hydra
Aim: an eight-headed hydra
The eight-headed hydra looks drowsy...
The helpless eight-headed hydra fails to defend itself.
You skewer the eight-headed hydra like a kebab!!!
You kill the eight-headed hydra!
Your Shields skill increases to level 3!
Your Spellcasting skill increases to level 12!
Save game and exit?
Welcome back, SpEn the Spriggan Enchanter.
Ashenzari says: Partake of my vision. Partake of my curse.
Press ? for a list of commands and other information.

..................  , *
....................,,  *
.....#................ ,
....#.........!....#.#    *
.....P............#.# .. *
....................#..#
.....................#.#
..................>...P#
................@....#
.%......................#
..........>..........###*
......................#
.................#.####
..........#...#.##..#
........PP......#*###
.........PP...!..
.........PP......


There are no monsters in sight!

Vanquished Creatures
  A minotaur (Lab)
  Fannar (Lair:2)
  Harold (Lair:1)
  2 hydras
  Pikel (D:4)
  A black mamba (Lair:5)
  4 elephants (Lair:4)
  3 spiny frogs
  A spriggan (D:7)
  2 komodo dragons
  8 blink frogs
  A basilisk (Lair:1)
  4 sharks (Lair:2)
  18 yaks
  3 hippogriffs
  An orc warrior (D:6)
  10 war dogs (Lair:2)
  3 sky beasts
  A black bear (Lair:2)
  7 ice beasts
  3 slaves (D:4)
  3 phantoms
  3 ogres
  4 crocodiles
  A big kobold (Sewer)
  Duvessa (D:7)
  2 giant slugs (Lair:5)
  6 water moccasins
  A soldier ant zombie (D:7)
  4 agate snails
  6 giant frogs
  A big kobold zombie (Ossuary)
  2 crimson imps
  8 spiders
  Dowan (D:7)
  3 orc priests
  2 hounds
  9 big fish (Lair:2)
  A gnoll shaman (D:7)
  2 hound skeletons
  A scorpion (D:8)
  3 orc wizards (D:5)
  3 iguanas
  8 worker ants
  5 porcupines
  17 sheep
  A goliath beetle zombie (D:5)
  10 mummies (Ossuary)
  14 adders
  10 gnolls
  13 green rats
  A giant centipede (Lair:2)
  2 giant mites
  12 white imps (Lair:6)
  3 worms
  6 grey rats
  2 giant eyeballs
  3 gnoll zombies (Ossuary)
  3 giant geckos
  2 oozes (Sewer)
  19 orcs
  9 ball pythons
  9 giant cockroaches
  16 hobgoblins
  31 jackals
  13 kobolds
  9 quokkas
  13 bats
  5 giant newts
  22 goblins
  A goblin zombie (D:5)
  2 hobgoblin zombies
  A kobold zombie (Ossuary)
  2 orc zombies (Ossuary)
  A quokka skeleton (D:7)
  A quokka zombie (D:5)
  21 rats
  A rat zombie (D:5)
  A toadstool (D:3)
432 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  2 jackals (Lair:6)
  A kobold (D:1)
  30 toadstools
33 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 465 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | SpEn, the Spriggan Enchanter, began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 9/9 MP: 4/4
   479 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 1/13 MP: 6/6
   784 | D:1      | Learned a level 2 spell: Ensorcelled Hibernation
  1446 | D:2      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 13/16 MP: 0/9
  1686 | D:2      | Reached skill level 4 in Hexes
  2059 | D:3      | Found a glowing drain.
  2062 | D:3      | Noticed SpEn's ghost (average SpEn)
  2074 | D:3      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 21/21 MP: 1/12
  2352 | Sewer    | Entered a sewer
  2534 | Sewer    | Reached XP level 5. HP: 18/24 MP: 4/15
  2607 | Sewer    | Noticed a big kobold
  2687 | Sewer    | Killed a big kobold
  2687 | Sewer    | Reached skill level 5 in Stealth
  3115 | Sewer    | Learned a level 3 spell: Confuse
  3432 | D:3      | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
  3434 | D:3      | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
  3435 | D:3      | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
  3618 | D:3      | Found a glowing silver altar of Zin.
  3618 | D:3      | Noticed a glowing angel
  3944 | D:4      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 28/28 MP: 18/18
  4027 | D:4      | Noticed a slave
  4033 | D:4      | Noticed a slave
  4034 | D:4      | Noticed Pikel
  4034 | D:4      | Noticed a slave
  4056 | D:4      | Killed a slave
  4071 | D:4      | Noticed a slave
  4081 | D:4      | Killed a slave
  4084 | D:4      | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
  4087 | D:4      | Killed a slave
  4170 | D:4      | Killed Pikel
  4170 | D:4      | Reached skill level 6 in Dodging
  4170 | D:4      | Reached skill level 5 in Stabbing
  4170 | D:4      | Reached skill level 5 in Hexes
  4170 | D:4      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 32/32 MP: 8/21
  4326 | D:4      | Learned a level 6 spell: Invisibility
  4703 | D:4      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 28/36 MP: 13/23
  4729 | D:4      | Found an iron altar of Okawaru.
  4828 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  5442 | D:5      | Reached skill level 7 in Stealth
  5442 | D:5      | Reached skill level 5 in Spellcasting
  5620 | D:5      | Found a sand-covered staircase.
  5635 | Ossuary  | Entered an ossuary
  5754 | Ossuary  | HP: 1/36 [mummy (18)]
  7180 | D:6      | Reached skill level 8 in Stealth
  7412 | D:6      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 31/39 MP: 18/25
  7631 | D:6      | Found Pnuebeto's Weapon Boutique.
  8008 | D:7      | Found Abribawo's Food Emporium.
  8081 | D:7      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  8090 | Temple   | Entered the Ecumenical Temple
  8110 | Temple   | Became a worshipper of Ashenzari the Shackled
  8276 | D:7      | Found Citumum's Distillery.
  8285 | D:7      | Bought a potion of mutation for 33 gold pieces
  8285 | D:7      | Bought a potion of cure mutation for 385 gold pieces
  8285 | D:7      | Bought a potion of levitation for 33 gold pieces
  8355 | D:7      | Bought 2 potions of curing for 44 gold pieces
  8355 | D:7      | Bought a potion of porridge for 11 gold pieces
  8355 | D:7      | Bought a potion of heal wounds for 33 gold pieces
  8355 | D:7      | Bought a potion of curing for 22 gold pieces
  8355 | D:7      | Bought a potion of curing for 22 gold pieces
  8468 | D:7      | Noticed Duvessa
  8468 | D:7      | Noticed Dowan
  8470 | D:7      | Gained mutation: Your muscles are strong (Str +1). [Duvessa/wand of polymorph other]
  8477 | D:7      | Gained mutation: Armour fits poorly on your strangely shaped body. [Duvessa/wand of polymorph other]
  8502 | D:7      | Found an ancient bone altar of Kikubaaqudgha.
  8528 | D:7      | Bought a pear for 8 gold pieces
  8528 | D:7      | Bought a lychee for 4 gold pieces
  8576 | D:7      | Killed Dowan
  8600 | D:7      | Killed Duvessa
  8668 | D:7      | Reached skill level 9 in Stealth
  8779 | D:8      | Found a staircase to the Lair.
  8964 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts
  9204 | Lair:1   | Reached XP level 10. HP: 44/44 MP: 16/28
  9390 | Lair:1   | Noticed a seven-headed hydra
  9397 | Lair:1   | Killed a seven-headed hydra
  9397 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 10 in Stealth
  9672 | Lair:1   | Noticed Harold
  9689 | Lair:1   | Killed Harold
  9689 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 10 in Dodging
  9858 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 11 in Stealth
  9913 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 10 in Stabbing
 10106 | Lair:2   | Found a labyrinth entrance.
 10140 | Lab      | Entered a labyrinth
 11357 | Lab      | Acquired Ashenzari's first power
 12584 | Lab      | Noticed a minotaur
 12586 | Lab      | Killed a minotaur
 12586 | Lab      | Reached skill level 12 in Stealth
 12586 | Lab      | Reached XP level 11. HP: 47/47 MP: 25/31
 12687 | Lair:2   | Identified an uncursed rod of destruction [lightning,fireball,iron] (You found it in a labyrinth)
 12838 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 10 in Hexes
 13127 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 13 in Stealth
 13393 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 10 in Spellcasting
 13480 | Lair:2   | Noticed Fannar
 13490 | Lair:2   | Killed Fannar
 13490 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 14 in Stealth
 13767 | Lair:3   | Found a hole to the Spider Nest.
 13877 | Lair:2   | Reached XP level 12. HP: 17/51 MP: 25/33
 14280 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 1 in Shields
 14736 | Lair:4   | Reached skill level 15 in Stealth
 14959 | Lair:4   | You fall through a shaft!
 14969 | Lair:6   | Found a frozen archway.
 14995 | IceCv    | Entered an ice cave
 14995 | IceCv    | Acquired Ashenzari's second power
 15623 | Lair:5   | Acquired Ashenzari's third power
 15968 | Lair:6   | Noticed an eight-headed hydra
 16050 | Lair:6   | Killed an eight-headed hydra
 

[rchandra]

I would rarely wear faith on an ashenzari user, but if I need it to get 2 jewellery I might curse it. Your piety is high already, don't wear it.

[tcjsavannah]

Earth Elementalists. Being able to kill uniques without ever seeing them enter your LOS is special.

This is really hard to do in recent versions since you don't damage things on the other side of walls unless you break the wall.

Still plenty of corridors where you can hit the corner and get the seven-tile blast. Especially when Ash lets you know right where they are. And, since the mobs don't see you, they don't run towards you because they don't know where the damage is coming from. Instead, they just sit there and take it.

[Davion Fuxa]

GEE, I SURE DO WONDER WHAT GOD THIS PERSON IS USING

Made a mistake, meant to ask what Background his Spriggan was using. The char dump answered it though.

Anyhow, in regards to what I see - cursing your Amulet of Faith increases your Magic School bonus which will help you with Hexes while increasing the rate you gain piety. However, wearing the Amulet of Faith itself has no real benefit since you'll likely hit max piety quickly anyway - both with or without wearing it. You may want to wait until another amulet shows up to save yourself 2 Curse Jewelry Scrolls and a Remove Curse Scroll - especially if you feel the bonus to Hexes isn't really needed.

[rcnr]

Thanks, I'll wait until I find a better amulet unless I find a spellbook with something really good in it, since I've already gotten everything from hexes.

[XuaXua]

Ash was my first win, so I no longer play Ash.

[Davion Fuxa]

Ash was my first win, so I no longer play Ash.

That seems like a poor reason not to play Ash - have you yet to beat all the other Gods or something or do you just hate Ashenzari as a God?

[XuaXua]

Ash was my first win, so I no longer play Ash.

That seems like a poor reason not to play Ash - have you yet to beat all the other Gods or something or do you just hate Ashenzari as a God?

I think Ash provides certain tactics that allow it to be quite globally applicable, but requiring a specific playstyle. I'd much rather try a different way to beat the game with the challenging gifts of a different god. I've also beaten the game with the Trog to TSO route, so I see no need to pursue that again.