0.25 Tournament Rules Feedback

Official tournaments, but also any competition, challenge of the week or other player initiative for competitive crawling.

Dungeon Master

Posts: 250

Joined: Thursday, 27th November 2014, 19:12

Post Saturday, 4th July 2020, 17:02

0.25 Tournament Rules Feedback

Hi everyone, I hope you enjoyed the 0.25 tournament. Thank you all for your input, bug spotting, &c. on the tournament rules overhaul. I want to open a space to collect feedback on how the rules played, as well as share some changes I think are a good idea going forward.

  • Use a sum instead of an average This is a clarity thing, it doesn't change the order.
  • Cap ghosts for Unique Harvesting: I was worried that things would get silly if this didn't happen, but there were higher priorities in getting the tournament scripts running and didn't implement this change before the tournament started. Next time around ghost kills will be capped for scoring in this category (at 8 probably, unless we introduce more uniques)
  • Proportional scoring in hard capped categories: Piety, Exploration, and Unique Harvesting have hard maxima. Having the value of an exploration score of 99 go down progressively as more players got to 100 was bad playfeel. Instead these categories will award points up to the 10,000 proportionally.
  • Dense ranking in soft-capped categories: Similar to the bad playfeel of the 99 exploration score vs. 100, it felt bad to have the value of a low XL win go down because more people did slightly better than you, as opposed to the height of the leaderboard going up. For example, under the current system if players A and B got an XL 22 win and player C got an XL 23 win, C gets ranked 3rd; the proposed change would instead rank C 2nd.

I have some other concerns that I haven't yet distilled into specific action thoughts, but I'll hold off on voicing them so that the discussion can be more free flowing.

For this message the author ebering has received thanks: 3
andrew, Fingolfin, petercordia

Shoals Surfer

Posts: 290

Joined: Friday, 13th December 2019, 01:33

Post Sunday, 5th July 2020, 02:57

Re: 0.25 Tournament Rules Feedback

Obviously, as I've never placed in the top 100 in any tournament the effect of the rules on me may not matter that much; but two thoughts:

a) The new rules turned "should I play more?" into a meaningful strategic choice. (Had I stopped after I'd won 2 of my first 3 games, I'd have ranked decently well in Win Rate and likely placed higher as a result.) This strikes me as possibly a good thing.

b) Under the old rules, a HOMo win was worth noticeably more than a MiFi win. Under the new rules, it wasn't; all combos were worth the same unless one was able to get a high score (which I'd be unlikely to accomplish for either of those combos). I preferred this the old way, personally.

Zot Zealot

Posts: 995

Joined: Thursday, 16th August 2018, 21:19

Post Sunday, 5th July 2020, 04:53

Re: 0.25 Tournament Rules Feedback

Personally I didn't really mind seeing the value of my XL 25 win slowly deteriorate, but that might have been different if I'd had top rank at some point.

Cocytus Succeeder

Posts: 2173

Joined: Saturday, 2nd February 2013, 09:52

Post Sunday, 5th July 2020, 06:11

Re: 0.25 Tournament Rules Feedback

There are a couple of bugs discussed in the previous topic that are still alive. The first one:
VeryAngryFelid wrote:Sort order on https://crawl.develz.org/tournament/0.2 ... ranks.html is wrong, it uses "String" sort instead of "Integer". It results in order like 1, 10, 100, 101 etc. instead of 1,2,3.

Note that this particular page was fixed, but the Ongoing Games page still has the same bug, both the Time and in the Location columns are affected. Are there any more pages with this bug? Maybe, but I can't find any.

Cocytus Succeeder

Posts: 2173

Joined: Saturday, 2nd February 2013, 09:52

Post Sunday, 5th July 2020, 06:15

Re: 0.25 Tournament Rules Feedback

The second bug is this:
MrDizzy wrote:
Magipi wrote:I think I found a weird bug. In the Exploration category, I seem to have Wizlab missing, even though I did visit a Wizlab with one of my characters.
You also visited: Ossuary, Ice Cave and Wizlab.

https://crawl.xtahua.com/crawl/morgue/m ... 155323.txt

I think it's because your morgue has no WizLab entry milestone, even though you clearly went in there.

I don't know what causes a milestone to not be recorded, but I wouldn't be surprised if hundreds of players were affected. Maybe using some other line instead of milestones is a better idea.
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Crypt Cleanser

Posts: 723

Joined: Monday, 24th April 2017, 11:46

Post Sunday, 5th July 2020, 13:57

Re: 0.25 Tournament Rules Feedback

For unique harvesting, in previous tournaments I could see which uniques were still on my to-do list. Maybe I missed an easier way, but this time I had to compare my list of vanquished uniques with the top scorer's list to see which ones were still missing. That should be a bit easier.

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