Crawl "Sudden Death" Challenges Season 1 - Complete


Official tournaments, but also any competition, challenge of the week or other player initiative for competitive crawling.

Zot Zealot

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Post Saturday, 11th January 2014, 09:10

Crawl "Sudden Death" Challenges Season 1 - Complete

Season 1 is complete.
The Week 10 challenge, VpAE, is now closed.
The Week 9 challenge, TrAM, is now closed.
The Week 8 challenge, DEVM, is now closed.
The Week 7 challenge, TeSk, is now closed.
The Week 6 challenge, MfFi, is now closed.
The Week 5 challenge, NaEn, is now closed.
The Week 4 challenge, GhHu, is now closed.
The Week 3 challenge, DsTm, is now closed.
The Week 2 challenge, DrCK, is now closed.
The Week 1 challenge, DgCj, is now closed.

Crawl "Sudden Death" Challenges is a new Crawl competition that will hopefully fill a niche somewhere between the biannual Crawl tournaments and the rarer dieselrobin events. The idea is for players to compete by trying to get the highest score in a game of Crawl with one attempt only; if you die, that challenge is over (thus "sudden death", though you may - will - often also die suddenly). This competition will be a lower time commitment event that will hopefully still challenge players, as well as encouraging different characters and play styles that you might not normally consider. I'll keep this post up-to-date with all information regarding the competition, so check back here for details.

CSDC Season 1 Results and Standings

I will try to update the standings at least once per day (usually around 9-10pm EST). You can use the bot commands on the "Rules and Information" tab of the scoring sheet to view relevant challenge information in ##crawl whenever you wish, though.

Competition Rules:
  Code:
   Format               
1   Each challenge is a randomly chosen Crawl race/class combo (e.g. HaWr).               
2   You get ONE attempt to play each combo. The goal is to get the highest in-game score possible.               
3   Players are organized by divisions. You only compete with the players in your division.               
4   New combos are selected once a week. The season lasts 10 weeks, i.e. 10 different combos per season.               
5   Additionally each challenge has an optional bonus challenge (see "Bonuses" tab for the list). Each bonus will have two tiers; the
    second tier is more difficult, and worth more points.               
6   Top 3 players in each division qualify for a one-week playoff to determine a champion. Playoff format to be announced after Week 3.               
                  
   Additional Rules               
1   Games must be played online in Trunk. Any logged server is allowable (CAO, CSZO, CLAN, CBRO, RHF).               
2   Playing the same char simultaneously on more than one server is not allowed.               
3   No races or classes that have not made it into a stable release will be eligible for challenge combos. In addition, Dithmengos
    cannot be worshipped in any challenge game (player receives 0 pts for that challenge).
4   Each challenge will be open for 2 weeks. All games must be ended before the challenge is closed in order to count.               
5   One redo is allowed if player XL < 4 (i.e., no redos once you hit XL 4). The higher of the two games counts for your score.
6   In case of a drastic change to Trunk that affects an open combo, players who completed the open combo will have the               
    option to replay it once. If replayed, the 2nd score will stand even if the 1st score is higher.               
                  
   Scoring               
   Points for winning challenges:               
1   1st place in a challenge (per division):   3 pts            
2   2nd place in a challenge (per division):   2 pts            
3   3rd place in a challenge (per division):   1 pt            
                  
   Points for in-game achievements:               
4   Won game:                                  2 pts            
5   Bonus completion*:                         1 pt for Tier I, 3 pts for Tier II            
6   # of runes (if won):                       1 pt for 3+ runes, 2 pts for 6+ runes            
7   # of runes (if not won):                   1 pt for 1+ runes, 2 pts for 10+ runes            
8   Collect a rune with xl<=12:                2 pts per game (excluding abyssal or slimy runes)   
     *note, you only get points for the highest tier bonus you complete         
                  
   Miscellaneous points:               
9   Streak win (challenge games only):         1 pt per win            
10  Season high score (per division):          3 pts            
11  Season min turn count win (per division):  3 pts            


Divisions
  Code:
Division 1 - Ereshkigal's Executioners
1. ackack
2. Bart
3. Cheibrodos
4. Implojin
5. MorganLeah
6. MrPlanck
7. nago
8. Sphara
9. Yermak

Division 2 - Mennas' Menaces
1. aspy
2. HungrySpirit
3. MDvedh
4. rast
5. TedronaiSDC
6. vengefulcarrot
7. WalkerBoh

Division 3 - Wiglaf's Warriors
1. caleba
2. Charos
3. dpeg
4. glosham
5. Lasty
6. moose
7. sanka
8. tasonir

Division 4 - Gastronok's Guerillas
1. 9to
2. Cedor
3. DracheReborn
4. Igxfl
5. inmateoo
6. magipi
7. mopl
8. wheals

Division 5 - Pikel's Punishers
1. adozu
2. chasecapener
3. fearitself
4. headcrab0803
5. HenryFlower
6. Moanerette
7. stickyfingers
8. TeshiAlair

Division X - Xom's X-Factors
1. Amilir
2. andinto
3. diviton
4. Sandman25
5. Siegurt
6. some12fat2move
7. Tiktacy
8. XuaXua
Last edited by WalkerBoh on Friday, 2nd May 2014, 03:55, edited 70 times in total.

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Dis Charger

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Post Saturday, 11th January 2014, 10:58

Re: Crawl Challenges

I'm in!


I was thinking to take a break from crawl, cause I suicided my last 3 or 4 characters able to win around d:27 by boredom - a single shot every week could be interesting.

Which version? I don't like playing trunk very much...
screw it I hate this character I'm gonna go melee Gastronok

Zot Zealot

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Post Saturday, 11th January 2014, 17:08

Re: Crawl Challenges

Typically we play in trunk, but that does have problems sometimes (DjGl came up and djinn lost berserk halfway through, so some people got a little screwed). So I guess I'd prefer trunk but am open to using last stable release. You can think of it as practice for the next tournament if you don't like trunk. :)

Barkeep

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Post Saturday, 11th January 2014, 22:45

Re: Crawl Challenges

I'm sure I'll be owned by better players but I'm in.

For all the reasons you listed this appeals to me a lot more than the tournaments. Great idea WalkerBoh and thanks in advance for organizing it! (And Crazy Yiuf's Colosseum is a great name, btw.)

Dungeon Master

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Post Saturday, 11th January 2014, 23:27

Re: Crawl Challenges

It's a great idea! In Brogue they have weekly contest, also run by dedicated players. Of course, Brogue has the great advantage of seeds. Would be awesome if we could do that in Crawl, too.

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Zot Zealot

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Post Sunday, 12th January 2014, 17:47

Re: Crawl Challenges

Here's an example of a scoring sheet I've put together for AWBW's current challenges: AWBW Challenges.

You can also see our current rules on the Rules tab. It would be quite trivial to add in individual player statistics, like win %, # of runes collected, % of challenges won, etc.

Crypt Cleanser

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Post Sunday, 12th January 2014, 20:27

Re: Crawl Challenges

I think this would be a really great idea! I generaly do not have time to bother with tournaments, but this sounds like the perfect place to play for me! Would love to see this officially.

Yes, seeds may be good but I think it would work very well without it. Better players tend to have better win rates even with much worse luck in a given game. I know because I'm not good and I tend to die with avesome equipment wihtout any particulary bad luck.And it's a game, it's nice to have some randomness, you feel you may have a chance.

Automatic scoring like in tournaments would be the best.

Uhm, and why is this in Yiuf instead of the average GDD thread?
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Dungeon Master

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Post Sunday, 12th January 2014, 21:53

Re: Crawl Challenges

dpeg wrote:It's a great idea! In Brogue they have weekly contest, also run by dedicated players. Of course, Brogue has the great advantage of seeds. Would be awesome if we could do that in Crawl, too.

The option is there, it has been for more than 3 years, thanks to kilobyte. Although, it's been really working only for a couple of months.
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Zot Zealot

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Post Sunday, 12th January 2014, 22:10

Re: Crawl Challenges

Yeah, I also don't think seeds are necessary. Part of the great thing about Crawl is the randomness, and luck should balance out over the course of a season's-worth of challenges.

sanka wrote:Automatic scoring like in tournaments would be the best.

Indeed. I do not have the programming know-how required to fully automate (thus Excel spreadsheets, which I am very familiar with). But if it got to the point where many people were interested and it was too much to track without full automation, I would love to have a script that auto-updated everything.

sanka wrote:Uhm, and why is this in Yiuf instead of the average GDD thread?

Well it really has nothing to do with game design, so it pretty clearly didn't belong in GDD. I think Dungeon Crawling Advice is the forum that is frequented by the people who would be most interested in this, but it doesn't fit in there at all. So I Yiufed it and hoped people would see it. :)

Abyss Ambulator

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Post Monday, 13th January 2014, 06:35

Re: Crawl Challenges

Awesome idea! I'd be in for sure.
Three wins: Gargoyle Earth Elementalist of Ash, Ogre Fighter of Ru, Deep Dwarf Fighter of Makhleb (0.16 bugbuild :( )

Swamp Slogger

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Post Monday, 13th January 2014, 09:25

Re: Crawl Challenges

I'm totally in!
I could also contribute some coding work for parsing morgues, but I can't host and/or maintain server for that.
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Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Wednesday, 15th January 2014, 23:35

Re: Crawl Challenges

I'd love to be in!

Personally, like nago, I'd prefer if it was limited to the most recent stable version so that people aren't suddenly screwed over by changes. If it isn't, no biggy.
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Swamp Slogger

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Post Thursday, 16th January 2014, 00:01

Re: Crawl Challenges

I'd be up for this as well; stable or trunk, I don't mind.

Zot Zealot

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Post Thursday, 16th January 2014, 01:03

Re: Crawl Challenges

Awesome, I'd say we definitely have enough interest to put together a good competition then. :)

I don't have time tonight, but tomorrow I'll put up a more complete list of rules. I'll also try to prepare some scoring sheets templates (and if someone wants to help me with setting up some Sequell commands for automated querying of scores, please message me in ##crawl).

I'll plan on just using this thread to organize the challenge, since it's already here. I'll keep all of the relevant information in the first post, so check there for the most updated info.

Edit: Oh, and if you use a different name or names to play games, please let me know what it is!

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Halls Hopper

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Post Thursday, 16th January 2014, 10:50

Re: Crawl Challenges

I'm in (such competition need bad players).

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Crypt Cleanser

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Post Thursday, 16th January 2014, 11:23

Re: Crawl Challenges

If the limit for bad players in this isn't yet met then I'd like to be in as well.

Zot Zealot

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Post Thursday, 16th January 2014, 16:22

Re: Crawl Challenges

The more the merrier. And hey, this competition is even guaranteed to turn bad players into good ones or your money back!
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Vestibule Violator

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Post Thursday, 16th January 2014, 16:25

Re: Crawl Challenges

Shut up and take my yes.

(Count me in!)
Last edited by Tiktacy on Thursday, 16th January 2014, 18:25, edited 1 time in total.
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Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Thursday, 16th January 2014, 17:50

Re: Crawl Challenges

I'm in.
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Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Thursday, 16th January 2014, 19:08

Re: Crawl Challenges

I'd like to join in as well.

Dungeon Master

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Post Thursday, 16th January 2014, 19:22

Re: Crawl Challenges

I'd be willing to try this out.

Blades Runner

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Post Thursday, 16th January 2014, 19:53

Re: Crawl Challenges

I'm in.
Wins: DsWz(6), DDNe(4), HuIE(5), HuFE(4), MiBe(3)

Swamp Slogger

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Post Thursday, 16th January 2014, 20:22

Re: Crawl Challenges

Please add HungrySpirit in the list too, he hasn't account on forums.

Shoals Surfer

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Post Thursday, 16th January 2014, 20:25

Re: Crawl Challenges

I'm in, for a 100% death rate (but death is always one to a customer)

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Friday, 17th January 2014, 03:44

Re: Crawl Challenges

I'd love to try this, and furthermore only saw it because of the new dart board, so thanks for the dart board subforum!

Sign me up, I may even win once. How do you enforce the try the combo only once part?

Zot Zealot

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Post Friday, 17th January 2014, 05:10

Re: Crawl Challenges

Well I promised a more complete set of rules tonight, so I updated the first post with more details. I'm open to tweaking the rules if there are some aspects the majority of people would rather see changed, so feel free to post any comments. For example, I wouldn't mind feedback on whether you guys like...
Spoiler: show
- Playing trunk only. I think most players play in trunk (correct me if I'm wrong), and I don't really see any way that it could work to let players choose if they want to play the latest stable release or trunk. They're just too different, and I don't want to force people to analyze the differences between versions to figure out which one is better for a particular challenge.

- 2 week window to play each combo. I considered leaving each combo open for the duration of the season, but I don't think it's reasonable to do so if we're playing trunk only. I feel that a 2-week window is enough time for people to finish a game (even if you're busy and the game stretches out through 15 runes). I also want to discourage people waiting for weeks to see how other players are doing in challenges before playing any of their games; that would take a lot of fun out of the competition aspect.

- Splitting players into divisions. This is mostly because I want this competition to be fun for all players. I don't really want to force players to have to win games to earn any points, and without divisions I'm afraid that the top players will be the only ones with points. So I think splitting into smaller groups will allow people to enjoy the competition aspect more, rather than just playing the challenges for the sake of playing the challenges.

- Redo policy. This is something we implemented at AWBW after a while. The early part of the game is when you're most susceptible to a death that you couldn't prevent (D:2 centaur anyone? D:1 kobold with elec dagger? I think we've all been there…), and it really sucks when your challenge ends almost immediately to something that wasn't your fault. It's unlikely that you're robbed twice in a row, so allowing a person to have one redo helps mitigate unfortunate RNG deaths. At first we used only score < X, but that discourages you from picking up gold in the early game, which is unintuitive and gamey. So I think {sc-gold}<=50 will prevent some of those early D:1 and D:2 deaths without allowing a player to get too far and get a free redo for their own mistakes. I might move that number up a bit, to 60 or so too.

- Scoring system. First, I don't want scoring points to be dependent on winning games, but winning your game should give you a nice bonus. The maximum score you can get from one game (not including streak wins or the season high score/min turn count win) is 10 points (challenge win + won game + optional bonus + 6 or more runes). If you don't win your game, the max you can get is 5 (challenge win + 10 or more runes). I added in runes to disincentivize people waiting to play their game to see what the other players did (for example, waiting to see if player A wins with 3 runes so you can go for 4 and win the challenge). This way, if you go for 6 runes and win, and someone then beats your score, you still get some points for your extra effort. Similarly, I added the if-not-won rune points for a) players who have trouble winning, and b) to reward players with some points if they try to go big and fail. I do not, however, want to encourage players to have to get all 15 runes to get max points, because I know many people do not care much for doing extended (and are justified in that opinion, I think). You are already somewhat incentivized to go for 15 if you want to make it harder for people to beat your score, but I don't see any way around this short of coming up with a completely different scoring system for each game that isn't based on how Crawl already scores it.


I plan to leave signups open through Friday, 1/27/14, while I put together some of the scoring sheets and queries and such. After that, I'll set the divisions and plan on starting the competition on Monday, 1/30/14.

tasonir wrote:How do you enforce the try the combo only once part?

Basically I'll only count the score of the first game a person plays with the challenge combo after that challenge starts. So if the combo is HaWr and starts on 2/2/14, your first game with HaWr after 2/2/14 is what I'll use for your score. It shouldn't be hard at all to do this with Sequell in ##crawl. So you don't have to worry about submitting your score either, I'll take care of updating everyone's scores once or twice a day.

Edit: Edited the post a bit to explain my reasoning behind the current rules, sorry for the long read so I spoilered it.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Friday, 17th January 2014, 05:55

Re: Crawl Challenges

Sign me up, I'm interested.
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Slime Squisher

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Post Friday, 17th January 2014, 08:46

Re: Crawl Challenges

Count me in.

Dis Charger

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Post Friday, 17th January 2014, 09:58

Re: Crawl Challenges

I like the rules (except trunk only :D, it adds some big randomness to game's balance ) but I think longer streak should be rewarded more, because the odds are against (I think it's more difficult to get a 3 wins streak rather than two 2 wins one).
What about using a linear progression to increase their value? So, e.g. for a 4 streak, the 2nd victory counts 1 bonus point, the 3rd 2 points, and the 4th 3 point (total 6 instead of 3).
screw it I hate this character I'm gonna go melee Gastronok

Temple Termagant

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Post Friday, 17th January 2014, 14:23

Re: Crawl Challenges

Count me in too. Gotta try this 8-)

Swamp Slogger

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Post Friday, 17th January 2014, 15:13

Re: Crawl Challenges

Add inmateoo too, he hasn't account on forums either :)

Abyss Ambulator

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Post Friday, 17th January 2014, 17:58

Re: Crawl Challenges

I'm in as well!

Only suggestion I would make is instead of one game, have the first 3 games of that combo count, to prevent insane RNG frustration.
Three wins: Gargoyle Earth Elementalist of Ash, Ogre Fighter of Ru, Deep Dwarf Fighter of Makhleb (0.16 bugbuild :( )

Zot Zealot

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Post Friday, 17th January 2014, 19:59

Re: Crawl Challenges

Glad so many people are interested! At this rate we might have enough for 4-5 divisions. :)

@nago: With regards to streaks, here is my thinking:
- The challenges already essentially encourage streaking. Since you get just one try, you are basically already playing each game as if it was a streak.
- Because of this pressure to do well in each game, an important aspect is rewarding risk-taking. This is accomplished partially because less turns to win = more risk = higher score = better chance of winning challenge. By rewarding streaks more, it encourages slower and more cautious play.
- Emphasis on bonus challenges is also important, since they will really make the games fun for the better players. Essentially I always want the reward for trying the bonus to be higher than the reward for just streaking. The safer option should be lower points.
- Finally, streaks are arbitrary. I don't want a player who wins 7 in a row and a player who wins 7 with 2 losses in the middle to have substantially different scores.

@TeshiAlair: I think a single redo in the early game is enough. After the first couple levels, generally you have enough tools and have made enough decisions that deaths are almost never truly unavoidable. Maybe for the lower divisions, we could tweak this rule though.
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Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Saturday, 18th January 2014, 00:14

Re: Crawl Challenges

Like nago said, I don't think playing in trunk is a particularly good idea. I'd be pretty cheesed if my DjBe lost the ability to berserk, or my MuWz gained it. Or what if they add a new enemy or vault that is an untested murder trap? Or a unique who has 55 HD instead of 5 because of a typo? If we stick to .13, we at least can know all the big threats in advance.

e: If you're looking for ideas for divisions, I think "hasn't won online", "has won once online", "goodplayer", and "greatplayer" would all be good distinctions. The biggest problem I can think of is that it would rank people used to offline lower than they play at, but I don't really see any other way of doing it than self reporting.
take it easy

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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Saturday, 18th January 2014, 00:47

Re: Crawl Challenges

FWIW I play about 95% of my games offline, I'm not sure how I would rate myself, since most of my games I play for "interesting" rather than "most likely to win"
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Saturday, 18th January 2014, 05:52

Re: Crawl Challenges

I'm not playing but personally I find .13 unplayable at this point. The monster summoning change alone is enough to make that the case for me.

Additionally you can't berserk with DjBe in .13 either!

I don't find that trunk actually has changes that noticeably affect how easy or hard crawl is very often, and many of the ones it does have affect specifically things that are new (e.g. new races like dj) that you wouldn't choose in the first place for something like this. Personally I wouldn't even find something like cleaving to be that much of a game-changer, but you can disagree with me there.

Just figured I'd throw this out there.

Unarmed Combat 27.0

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Post Saturday, 18th January 2014, 06:21

Re: Crawl Challenges

I'd like to do this

Zot Zealot

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Post Saturday, 18th January 2014, 06:56

Re: Crawl Challenges

Arryhythmia wrote:Like nago said, I don't think playing in trunk is a particularly good idea. I'd be pretty cheesed if my DjBe lost the ability to berserk, or my MuWz gained it. Or what if they add a new enemy or vault that is an untested murder trap? Or a unique who has 55 HD instead of 5 because of a typo? If we stick to .13, we at least can know all the big threats in advance.

Right, I agree with you that the risk of playing trunk is its potential volatility with regards to design. That's why I added:
4. Because trunk can have sudden changes, if a change is made that drastically affects the playability of one of the open chars, players who have already played the char will have the option to replay the combo once before it closes. (I get to decide what constitutes a drastic effect on playability.)

Do you think this rule is not sufficient? To give an example… let's say you have a game in progress and Dithmengos is pushed to trunk halfway through your game (which IMO is a significant change). Then I would give you the option to replay the challenge one time after your in-progress game is done (no time extension though, the challenge is still closed after 2 weeks). So if you think Dithmengos would have helped your game a lot, you can retry the game. If you're happy with the score you got, you keep your score. Note that if you choose to redo, your first game's score is gone; whatever you get in the redo will be your score regardless of whether it is higher than the first score or not.

So in the case where a change is made halfway through that would have helped your character significantly, you would generally take the redo unless you did really well anyways. In the case where the change hurts your character (e.g. DjBe losing berserk), you could avoid this by not updating your game to the current version of trunk. I will always try to make it clear as soon as possible if I think a change has been made that is redo-worthy. I will also make sure not to choose newly added races or classes as combos, because (as crate hinted at) they are much more likely to undergo radical changes than other features.

As for just playing stable release, crate summed up my thoughts pretty nicely. I understand that some people may not like changes added to the game in trunk (rune lock and Forest perhaps being the most obvious items), but overall I feel the game gets better as time goes on and does not get significantly easier or harder from version to version (just my opinion here). If you strongly dislike trunk because you feel the additions/removals from the last stable release to trunk overall worsen your experience of crawl, this is maybe not the best competition for you. :( But the volatility of trunk is an issue I believe can be mitigated successfully.

All that being said (and sorry for being so long-winded! I just want to fully explain my thoughts so you all know where I'm coming from), if there is a group of players who really want to participate in challenges and REALLY don't want to play trunk, I would be open to creating a division for stable release only. In the end, I want to create a challenge that is the most fun for the largest number of people, after all. :)

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Arryhythmia wrote:e: If you're looking for ideas for divisions, I think "hasn't won online", "has won once online", "goodplayer", and "greatplayer" would all be good distinctions. The biggest problem I can think of is that it would rank people used to offline lower than they play at, but I don't really see any other way of doing it than self reporting.

Good idea! I was thinking something along these lines, too, but it will be hard to say how grouping will fall out until we know who and how many players sign up. As far as offline players, for my purposes I have to assume that offline games don't exist. The groupings don't need to be perfect anyways though, I think having one or two players wrongly placed (+/- 1 division) should not affect the enjoyment of the competition for others too much.

But just so everyone knows, I will be only gauging your skill based on the profile with the name you used to sign up with. If you feel that account doesn't accurately represent your skill at all, just send me a PM and explain to me why. This will help me a lot when creating the divisions.

And thank you all for the feedback so far. :)

Halls Hopper

Posts: 81

Joined: Tuesday, 5th April 2011, 16:17

Post Saturday, 18th January 2014, 10:27

Re: Crawl Challenges

This looks really cool, I'd be interested in participating! ( aspy on CDO )

Crypt Cleanser

Posts: 675

Joined: Tuesday, 4th January 2011, 15:03

Post Saturday, 18th January 2014, 20:40

Re: Crawl Challenges

OFF:
crate wrote:I'm not playing but personally I find .13 unplayable at this point. The monster summoning change alone is enough to make that the case for me.


I'd really like to hear some more about this if it's not a big question: what feature do you refer and why is it so awful? And is this supposedly awful feature is reverted/changed in trunk?

ON:

I like trunk, the only think I would add is to remove experimental races. Particulary Lava Orc and Djinni seems to be so vague that they may undergoe big changes any time sombody has a good idea, so I would not like to play with them on a tournament (yet).

Ziggurat Zagger

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Joined: Sunday, 5th May 2013, 08:25

Post Saturday, 18th January 2014, 21:54

Re: Crawl Challenges

In 0.14 monster summons die if you kill the summoner. This makes summoning monsters much less terribly designed and more fun to fight. And 0.12/0.13 added a bunch more summoning monsters to the game so the terrible design of pre-0.14 monster summoners was much more noticeable than it was in, say, 0.10.

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sanka, TehDruid

Zot Zealot

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Post Saturday, 18th January 2014, 22:11

Re: Crawl Challenges

sanka wrote:I like trunk, the only think I would add is to remove experimental races. Particulary Lava Orc and Djinni seems to be so vague that they may undergoe big changes any time sombody has a good idea, so I would not like to play with them on a tournament (yet).

Yes, exactly. Any race (or class if a new one is added) that hasn't made it into a stable release will not be a candidate for the challenges.
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Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1832

Joined: Monday, 1st April 2013, 04:41

Location: Vancouver, Canada

Post Saturday, 18th January 2014, 22:57

Re: Crawl Challenges

WalkerBoh wrote:Yes, exactly. Any race (or class if a new one is added) that hasn't made it into a stable release will not be a candidate for the challenges.


This is a much better idea than restricting it to .13. Good thinking!
take it easy

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hi rast

Zot Zealot

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Location: AZ, USA

Post Sunday, 19th January 2014, 04:33

Re: Crawl "Sudden Death" Challenges

A couple updates:

1) Added to the Rules that no "unstable" races or classes will be selected as challenge combos.
2) Added an additional season-long bonus challenge: Collect a rune with xl<=12 for 2 pts per game (excluding slimy and abyssal).
3) Added a bit of flavor and a better name for the challenges: Crawl "Sudden Death" Challenges. It differentiates it a bit from other types of Crawl challenges, namely that you only get one chance at each char, and I think "sudden death" is a fitting description - in more ways than one. :) For perspective, the other two options were "The Crawl-osseum" and "Yiuf's YOLO Mania!!!". You're welcome.

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and into, tasonir

Swamp Slogger

Posts: 131

Joined: Saturday, 2nd November 2013, 08:39

Location: Mother Russia

Post Sunday, 19th January 2014, 10:05

Re: Crawl "Sudden Death" Challenges

I would call it "Tavern Freak Show" because you know, there are some freaks like DEGl and MfFE and there are tavern users.

Dungeon Master

Posts: 3618

Joined: Thursday, 23rd December 2010, 12:43

Post Sunday, 19th January 2014, 13:56

Re: Crawl "Sudden Death" Challenges

Count me in!

WalkerBoh: Thanks for setting this up, it's great to see.
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Barkeep

Posts: 4033

Joined: Tuesday, 11th January 2011, 12:28

Post Sunday, 19th January 2014, 14:26

Re: Crawl "Sudden Death" Challenges

I'm in for at least an occasional shot. #badplayers ho!

Also, I definitely support the idea of seeding it, assuming this means everyone will get the same dungeon... it's the Spelunky daily challenge, then, except in Crawl.
I am not a very good player. My mouth is a foul pit of LIES. KNOW THIS.

Swamp Slogger

Posts: 177

Joined: Sunday, 4th September 2011, 20:45

Post Sunday, 19th January 2014, 14:27

Re: Crawl "Sudden Death" Challenges

Another way to sort players into divisions could be by average score.

Zot Zealot

Posts: 1031

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Location: AZ, USA

Post Sunday, 19th January 2014, 21:44

Re: Crawl "Sudden Death" Challenges

Also, I definitely support the idea of seeding it, assuming this means everyone will get the same dungeon... it's the Spelunky daily challenge, then, except in Crawl.

I think if we were going to make this official or super serious/competitive, seeds would be needed. Since it's casual, I personally think it's more fun for each player to find different loot, build their chars in different ways, etc. In the end, player skill will still have the largest effect on results.

Another way to sort players into divisions could be by average score.

I'm using an amalgam of # of wins, win rate, % of games with # of runes > 0, and avg # of runes per game. Oh and max streak length.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4054

Joined: Tuesday, 10th January 2012, 19:49

Post Sunday, 19th January 2014, 21:47

Re: Crawl "Sudden Death" Challenges

If you were making this serious then having the same seed is not necessarily a benefit--a player could gain an advantage by simply waiting to view a competitor's ttyrec (to learn the dungeon) before playing. In my opinion this is actually a much bigger deal than the randomness of having different dungeons.

Of course you can mitigate this by accepting multiple entries from each player, or by having some non-competing player play through with the seed beforehand and basically publicizing the dungeon. However in all of these cases the game you are actually competing in is not recognizably crawl, since there is so much extra information the player already has (and in fact for good players winning should be effectively a 100% chance with this much knowledge of the dungeon).

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adozu, Arrhythmia, sanka
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