The Tavern

Does it mean you get 3 points if you did Tier II but not Tier I?

Yes. But in general, I'll try to make it so that getting the Tier I bonus is needed to do the Tier II bonus (for example, you cannot kill Antaeus without having already killed Geryon since you have to kill Geryon to get into Cocytus).

WalkerBoh wrote:
Does it mean you get 3 points if you did Tier II but not Tier I?

Yes. But in general, I'll try to make it so that getting the Tier I bonus is needed to do the Tier II bonus (for example, you cannot kill Antaeus without having already killed Geryon since you have to kill Geryon to get into Cocytus).

I have some ideas for challenges, are you open to suggestions? I could pm them to you if you are interested.

Yes, please do. I have pretty strict criteria for what constitutes a good bonus, but I'm more than happy to hear some ideas.

For those of you playing along at home who didn't make the cutoff for signups: I added a little section at the bottom of "Weekly Results" on the scoring sheet where I'll keep track of your scores for challenges you play. I titled it "Unofficial Participants". No stats or anything, but you can at least keep track of how you would've done.

Re: the Korean server: Only 0.13 games are recorded by Sequell and CAO scoring, because the server doesn't publish logfiles/milestones for trunk.

Sounds dangerous, I'm in!
(You still can register, aren't ya?)

Congrats... but what about a new topic for each week? In that way we would have a more organized forum - or maybe a different topic for each division, I dunno.

WildSam wrote:Sounds dangerous, I'm in!
(You still can register, aren't ya?)

Sorry WildSam, sign ups are closed. But you can play the challenges by yourself of course.

@Tedronai: Yes, one new challenge per week and two weeks to do each challenge. I put each challenge's start and end dates on the scoring sheet for clarity.

@nago: I could do a new thread for each challenge, yeah. I am mostly concerned with clutter... If I do that I'll leave this thread open for scoring and administration, and let the weekly topics be for chatter regarding that challenge. I'll talk to a mod and see if they have any concerns about that.

And moose, congrats! Wow did not expect a win so quick.

Requesting that each challenge has its own thread. That way we won't have to go digging through a 20 page legacy thread and it's not like we will be spamming the board with a topic every two weeks.

Cheibrodos wrote:Requesting that each challenge has its own thread. That way we won't have to go digging through a 20 page legacy thread and it's not like we will be spamming the board with a topic every two weeks.

It's not like this is a heavy subforum anyway.
Tiles online is slow, but I love the foot trail; how do I get that in offline mode?

XuaXua wrote:
Cheibrodos wrote:Requesting that each challenge has its own thread. That way we won't have to go digging through a 20 page legacy thread and it's not like we will be spamming the board with a topic every two weeks.

It's not like this is a heavy subforum anyway.
Tiles online is slow, but I love the foot trail; how do I get that in offline mode?

Change the line that reads

# show_travel_trail = false

in your init.txt file to

show_travel_trail = true.

The init.txt file can be found in [wherever_you've_got_crawl]\settings

Spoke to galehar, and since he has no objections I will create a new thread for each week's challenge. I'll create the one for Week 1 tonight when I'm home and the relevant posts from here will be moved.

This thread will strictly be for administrative purposes then (rule questions, etc), although I'll still keep the first post updated with current information/results.

A suggestion: in your spreadsheet, on the "Weekly Results" tab, in the cells with each score, it would be super-sweet if you could link to the morgue files.

That would be pretty cool... but how would you like to do that for 48 players times 10 challenges?

Instead, what if I included a list of all won games + link to morgue for each challenge in the weekly challenge thread? So all DgCj wins would be listed in the first post of the (yet to be created) Week 1 thread, for example. That would be manageable for me.

crate wrote:If you were making this serious then having the same seed is not necessarily a benefit--a player could gain an advantage by simply waiting to view a competitor's ttyrec (to learn the dungeon) before playing. In my opinion this is actually a much bigger deal than the randomness of having different dungeons.

Note that the -seed option still doesn't work correctly. This is easily determined by running `crawl-tiles -seed 123456789123` twice in a row, choosing the same character build: you get different starting dungeons.

Last I checked, the exact turn that you go downstairs also influences the generation of the next level, so..

(Dungeon generation might need to have its own RNG state to make -seed work properly. Although IMO starting the same character build with the same seed and ending up with a different starting level ought to be more easily fixable)

It seems I am here few days too late. When will there be next opportunity to join? In 10 weeks?

Yeah sorry Bart, next season will be the next chance to join. You can play the challenges this season, but your scores will just be unofficial.

Updated the scoring sheet a little. Added a cell on the "Weekly Results" page that displays the total # of won games and the overall win % across all competition games. Currently we're at a 14.3% win rate (5 wins in 35 games), which is incredibly high!

Also updated the "Challenge Stats" tab. Down below the divisional breakdown, I added a few overall stats across all players for each week: top overall score and corresponding player, the # of challenge games won and win percentage, and the number and percentage of challenge games where a rune was collected (which is at 31.4% so far!).

As always, if there is some other stat you guys are interested in being displayed, let me know!

Edit: I also unhid the "Overall Rankings" tab, which displays how each person ranked in each week of the challenge.

Week 2 has begun! The RNG selects… DrCK!

Starting week 2 a little early, because I'll be busy with the Super Bowl later tonight. Good luck everyone!

Edit: Please do not start the challenge before 7pm EST though, otherwise I may miss your score! Thanks.

Double edit: Well, a few people didn't see the above edit, so never mind. Adjusted my scoring queries, so games started earlier than 7pm EST are okay.

How long does each challenge last for? Do I need to complete week 2 before week 3 starts?

I ask because I just won a game, and was going to try to for a streak, playing something more reliable than a chaos knight. I'll probably die horribly early on, and then splat a DrCK early too, but just in theory, if I did end up taking a few days, when does each challenge close?

Edit: While I'd still love an answer, I can confirm that I did in fact splat horribly early on, and both ended my streak as well as played the chaos knight all the way to level 5 in a short amount of time

Each challenge is open for two weeks. So you need to have your week 2 game finished by the start of week 4.

If you look at the "Weekly Results" tab on the scoring sheet, there is a start and end date listed for each week. Hope that helps!

Week 3 is open! The RNG selects… DsTm!

Due to the suggestion of multiple players, I will be starting every subsequent challenge at 7pm EST on Fridays instead of Sundays. This way people can play over the weekend. So Week 4 will start on Friday 2/14 at 7pm EST. This does not affect the end time for Week 3, which will still be open for the full 2 weeks.

Week 4 is open! The RNG selects… GhHu.

Good luck!

I am replacing njvack with Amilir in Division 3 due to inactivity. Amilir will have until 3/01 to play the challenges for Weeks 1-4.

Arrhythmia and Hirsch: please message me if either of you would also like to be replaced. I know you've both expressed that you'd be inactive due to technical troubles. Thanks!

I'm also replacing Arrhythmia with Bart. Bart has until 3/1 to play the first 4 challenges, same as Amilir. I might move Bart from Division 2 later, but I'll hold off on the decision until after he completes the first four challenges.

Last update: Replacing Hirsch I with Lasty. Same disclaimer applies to him as to Bart above, and I might move Lasty from Division X after he gets caught up on Week 1-4.

Week 5 has begun. The RNG declares… NaEn!

Good luck!

Naga Enchanter? Wow.

(Is it really an RNG, or are you an evil mastermind?)

I suspect WalkerBoh runs RNG until he gets combo he wants

Too many combos which a human could select: DgCj (Cj without reliable way to channel mana), DrCK (powerful species with weak background), DsTm (monstrous Tm is really special), NaEn (Na is stealthy, En is stealthy). Even GhHu can be treated as special (good heavy armoured ranger)

Sandman25 wrote:I suspect WalkerBoh runs RNG until he gets combo he wants
Too many combos which a human could select: DgCj (Cj without reliable way to channel mana), DrCK (powerful species with weak background), DsTm (monstrous Tm is really special), NaEn (Na is stealthy, En is stealthy). Even GhHu can be treated as special (good heavy armoured ranger)

There really aren't that many truly crappy combos, so yes, most of the ones that you get through random generation will be plenty playable.

Believe it or not, I only re-roll if I get Dj, Fo, LO, VS, or a repeat race/class. I originally rolled MuCK first this week, so count your blessings we had DrCK already!

WalkerBoh wrote:Believe it or not, I only re-roll if I get Dj, Fo, LO, VS, or a repeat race/class. I originally rolled MuCK first this week, so count your blessings we had DrCK already!

Sorry, I was joking of course.
Will you re-roll if you get something really easy like DEFE or GrBe?

Nope! If we roll MiFi, GrBe, DDHe, MfGl, and DEFE for weeks 6-10, then those will be the challenges. But if that happens, you can expect some really nasty bonuses. :twisted:

That's the nice thing about this competition format though. If we roll an easy combo, you still have to do better at it than your competitors to score full points, which means playing faster and doing the bonuses. And if you play sufficiently fast, there is no such thing as an easy combo.

No repeat combos, right?

No repeat races or classes.

One more update, and this should be the last one with regards to players and divisions.

I switched Lasty and Amilir. Amilir is now in Division X, Lasty is now in Division 3.
I switched Bart and WalkerBoh. Bart is now in Division 1, WalkerBoh is in Division 2.

I think this is the most accurate grouping of players since the additions. If someone has a concern, please feel free to message me.

I feel kind of cheated !
Went downstairs, Pickel and his band all around, up with them, use all consommables, dead

http://crawl.lantea.net/crawl/morgue/mo ... 100414.txt

mopl wrote:I feel kind of cheated !
Went downstairs, Pickel and his band all around, up with them, use all consommables, dead
http://crawl.lantea.net/crawl/morgue/mo ... 100414.txt

If I'm reading it correctly, you had an identified potion of speed that you could have drunk to haste yourself (probably should have before, or instead of, going upstairs). Also you had no reason not to be wearing the buckler.

some12fat2move wrote:
mopl wrote:I feel kind of cheated !
Went downstairs, Pickel and his band all around, up with them, use all consommables, dead
http://crawl.lantea.net/crawl/morgue/mo ... 100414.txt

If I'm reading it correctly, you had an identified potion of speed that you could have drunk to haste yourself (probably should have before, or instead of, going upstairs). Also you had no reason not to be wearing the buckler.

Sure but that wouldn't have helped because I was surrounded...

Code:: #.# ##.## #.##.#...#### #.# ##)#.## #.##.#....... #.# ##.###.###.##[#.....## #######.####.## ##.##.##.#.###.## ........%...## ##.#.##.#.# #.## ######...###.## ##.....#.#.# #.## #...# ##.###@###..#.#.###.## #...#####.#K####..#.()..o... #........g@@@.....#######.## #.#.#############.##### #.# #...........# #.....# #.# ###.#######.#########.###.## ########......##....# #....... ........#####.#####.# #....... #...............# #.######....... #.#####.###.8#8.###.............. #.# #.# #.#?#.##...............

Yes, very unlucky situation. Maybe cast EH at that monster on NE and retreat there? Speed is not that good for Na indeed.
I am not sure why you read unknown scroll. Were scrolls of teleportation/blink still un-IDed?

With CDO changing servers this Thursday, tavern will be down. So I'll wait to start week 6 until the forum and CDO are back up, which could be as late as Monday.

Sandman25 wrote:Yes, very unlucky situation. Maybe cast EH at that monster on NE and retreat there? Speed is not that good for Na indeed.
I am not sure why you read unknown scroll. Were scrolls of teleportation/blink still un-IDed?

Blink was still unknown...
Bah, that's part of the game, and that's also why we like it !!

I'm going to die.... i'm TOTALLY IN.

Hi treerex, sorry but signups are closed for this season. You can still play the challenges on your own unofficially, and of course you can sign up for the next season!

Week 7 has begun! The RNG reaches into the bowl and picks... TeSk!

Updated everything tonight, so if something is incorrect or still not updated please shoot me a message about it!

Regarding this discussion from one of the other SDC threads:

WalkerBoh wrote:
dpeg wrote:I agree. The whole thing drives on participation. If people flake out, that takes away half the fun.

It'd be really cool if players who lose motivation (or just don't seem to find the time) can pm WalkerBoh about it. And he'd then replace them by active players.

Indeed, it's a little disappointing to me that several players have gone MIA. But I think it's a flaw of the format, and I've been reflecting on ways to make it more flexible in the future so people dropping out does not matter.

With regards to replacement, this is easier said than done. I was comfortable replacing players earlier because 1) I had people waiting who wanted to join, and 2) it was very early in the competition still. At this point, any replacements would have 7 challenges to play, and would do so knowing exactly what score they need for most of them. So I am hesitant to replace now.

I could, of course, simply remove the inactive players. This takes a bit of work on the spreadsheet to preserve automation, but I think that might be best for now.

In my opinion we should merge division 2 and 3. As it looks right now there are only 3 active players left in division 2 anyways. I think this decision is mostly up to the players of division 3 (and of course WalkerBoh). They would have to decide whether they want to accept additional competition or not...

These slackers! WalkerBoh is putting so much effort into the challenge, and some folks who eagerly said "yes! yes! here! here!" are not able to contribute a single game per week.

Perhaps the mode should be changed: instead of fixed divisions, a long list of participants, sorted by current score. If someone doesn't show for a tournament, they're out. (Unless they write a mail to WalkerBoh, stating they're unable to play and prove sick leave with a prescription.

)

dpeg wrote:Perhaps the mode should be changed: instead of fixed divisions, a long list of participants, sorted by current score.

I guess the main argument against this solution was that it would be too similar to the actual release tournament and discourage lesser experienced players from participating.

I think that the division system is fine. The main problem is inactive players.
But after this first season, we'll know who is able to play the entire challenge, and who is not !
WalkerBoh will also know if some players were over/under-rated and move them in another division.

I think removing the divisions is the way to go. They get in the way, confuse things, probably make the scripts more difficult, etc ...

If their raison d'être is to give newer (or bad) players incentive to play, I would suggest an alternative (which ironically creates as much work as getting rid of divisions rids, but at least mitigates any confusion and slotting problems). I really like the bonuses in each tournament, but for a highly inexperienced player like myself, I either don't possess the intelligence or talent to complete them, or I'm fairly confident that attempting them will cost me a victory, which at least to me, is important.

I think that having a goodly number of static challenges, similar to the release tournaments' banners would be a start. Things like:

Worship a god
Enter a branch (perhaps a reward for each branch)
Enter orc:4 before Lair:1
Kill Cerebov while in treeform with rc--- and brainless
etc...

stuff like that coupled with game-specific challenges (as it is today) would give newer and incapable players milestones and goals that they would be more likely to achieve and earn tournament points.

To me personally, my relative ranking in my division is completely irrelevant; I only pay attention to my ranking against the entire herd, which seems a more interesting metric. Also the slotting process is and will always be somewhat arbitrary, since using someone's win count as a gauge of their relative ability doesn't really measure well their ability to perform well in the tournament (though I will say tha the placings for Division I seem pretty apt).

The Tavern

Crawl "Sudden Death" Challenges Season 1 - Complete

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