The Tavern

MrPlanck wrote:Congratulations, Bart! 5 game win streak and 7/10 wins overall in sudden death is stunning. Streaks always boggle me because there are so many chances to make bad decisions and all it takes is one typo or a tiny bit of bad luck to ruin it all.

Thank you! 9/10 was achievable - in two games I made bad decisions mostly because of impatience and definitely cannot blame RNG. There is a lot of room for improvement

The biggest problem was/is burnout and I see that I was not the only one who struggled with the game. All in all, playing should be fun, not hard work. As ackack already mentioned, 15-runner per week is rather a mixture of both.

0.14 is the hardest of releases I have played (I play since 0.7), yet overall win ratio is surprisingly good for me. Either I am wrong in difficulty assessment or we had really good players. Congrats to all of you!

A 15-runer each week is indeed a lot of work. Perhaps every 2 weeks would be a better schedule for the next season of the tournament?

Waiting 2 weeks before you can start another character after dying at XL 4 can kill all fun for me. Maybe just announce all combos in advance and allow them to be played when you want: 2 months for 5 combos solves all problems IMHO (or 4 months for 10 combos), fast/weak players still can finish all those games in 2 weeks.

Edit. I still remember all my 6 deaths, they were completely avoidable, the tournament really helps to improve skills.

Sandman25 wrote:Waiting 2 weeks before you can start another character after dying at XL 4 can kill all fun for me. Maybe just announce all combos in advance and allow them to be played when you want: 2 months for 5 combos solves all problems IMHO (or 4 months for 10 combos), fast/weak players still can finish all those games in 2 weeks.

Edit. I still remember all my 6 deaths, they were completely avoidable, the tournament really helps to improve skills.

haha!! This is like saying that watching Game of Thrones sucks because you only get one episode a week. Pace yourself man!

Also, as you well know, there's nothing keeping you from just playing normal games inbetween csdc challenges.

I loved the format!! It's good all around. The single-game thing causes one to really pay attention to how they play, which makes anyone a better player. The random roll for race/job causes you to play races/jobs that you would otherwise have probably never tried. Also, the bonuses will sometimes make someone try something new, all of which is good.

I'm eagerly awaiting the next round!! Screw the release tourney, I want more csdc!

Moose wrote:haha!! This is like saying that watching Game of Thrones sucks because you only get one episode a week. Pace yourself man!

Also, as you well know, there's nothing keeping you from just playing normal games inbetween csdc challenges.

I loved the format!! It's good all around. The single-game thing causes one to really pay attention to how they play, which makes anyone a better player. The random roll for race/job causes you to play races/jobs that you would otherwise have probably never tried. Also, the bonuses will sometimes make someone try something new, all of which is good.

I'm eagerly awaiting the next round!! Screw the release tourney, I want more csdc!

Well, I don't really know what is "Game of Thrones" but I watched about 10 series of "Prison break" last weekend so you can guess I don't like one episode per week movies

One week per game makes it hard for some players to get 15 runes:

Code:: ... and 3 runes on Mar 22, 2014! The game lasted 21:46:56 (89404 turns).

Thank you all for the feedback! You are also illustrating the conflict very well - a 15-rune win is a lot to do each week for the players who are capable of it. But for players whose games are over in 5 minutes, a week is a long time to wait!

The issues right now as I see it are:
- 10 challenges is too many (causes burnout over 2.5 months)
- 15-runing is too heavily incentivized with the current scoring system (one week is not enough time for this)
- Player dropouts have a large impact on competitiveness of divisions
- Risk/reward ratio for bonuses is inconsistent (many are too easy or too hard to be interesting)

I have good ideas to fix these issues. I'll work on it and after the 0.14 tournament is over I'll put up the revised format. Hopefully season 2 will start within 2-3 weeks of the tournament end.

Since this is kind of the end: Big thanks to WalkerBoh for organizing this challenge. I had a lot of fun playing these games (even with my atrocious performance in the last few games).

By the way... WalkerBoh, did you realize that you can still win division 2? You just need to score more than 14.5 million points with your VpAE and complete bonus II ! Hopefully I'll be able to watch that game, I bet it's gonna be epic :)

Only score 14.5M and get the Tier II. Yeah, that should be a walk in the park. :lol:

I have a feeling your lead is safe.

So I died.

I wasn't paying enough attention, as I was my gf interrupted me every moment, so I didn't realize I was being constricted to death till it was too late. Oh well, still didn't do that bad. Thanks and congratulations to fearitself, looks like you're gonna win our division after all

And thanks WalkerBoh, it was an awesome great competition, can't wait till next season.

I've got a little question about scoring and ranking. Specifically, how can I be below Tedronai in Div 2 (2.2 to 2.1), but above in overall ranking (#7 to #12) ?

Offline training has revealed to me that the AM spell book makes it super easy to achieve the goals. Unfortunately, I have not yet played it online and today is April 1.

A spy wrote:I've got a little question about scoring and ranking. Specifically, how can I be below Tedronai in Div 2 (2.2 to 2.1), but above in overall ranking (#7 to #12) ?

It's an interesting quirk. He's scored more tourney points with bonuses/runes, even though on average you've done better each week. He's just managed to get more points out of his good games.

How does it explain the discrepancy though? Does one of these rankings use "game" score, and the other "challenge" score?

EDIT : Oh I see it now, the division ranking is an average, while the overall one is absolute.

XuaXua wrote:Offline training has revealed to me that the AM spell book makes it super easy to achieve the goals. Unfortunately, I have not yet played it online and today is April 1.

It's AE, not AM.

A spy wrote:How does it explain the discrepancy though? Does one of these rankings use "game" score, and the other "challenge" score?

EDIT : Oh I see it now, the division ranking is an average, while the overall one is absolute.

Ah sorry I misread your original question.

Actually both are averages, but division ranking is only within division 2 while overall is compared to everyone in the competition. So the difference is just due to weekly variance in div 2's scores with respect to the rest of the divisions.

Edit: For example, if you get 1st in div 2 on a week and Tedronai gets 2nd, it won't change your division average much. But maybe your 1st equates to 3rd overall that week and his 2nd equates to 20th overall. So his overall average takes a big hit and yours doesn't.

I think we might be co-leaders Stickyfingers!

The divisions worked well I think. My division had some good battles going each week and might have contended with any other division except Div 1.

As everyone else has said, Thank you, Walkerboh. I had a blast and hope you have another competition soon.

In case it's not clear, you probably should not play on CSZO trunk while the April Fool's content is up. If your game already started on there and you upgraded to the current trunk, I'm fine with you switching to another server to finish.

Is it a bad idea to play this character in April Fools? I know there are some random changes, none of with I am aware of, but are these changes the kind of thing that are more likely to screw me up than the normal happenings of the dungeon?

diviton wrote:Is it a bad idea to play this character in April Fools? I know there are some random changes, none of with I am aware of, but are these changes the kind of thing that are more likely to screw me up than the normal happenings of the dungeon?

Yes.

I would say, probably yes. Things like

Spoiler: show

I mean, you can feel free to try it if you want, but you don't get a redo if you don't like it.

I already started the character and I'm XL7 but I stopped playing when I realized it was April fools. If I start back up tomorrow will all this be gone?

Lasty wrote:
XuaXua wrote:Offline training has revealed to me that the AM spell book makes it super easy to achieve the goals. Unfortunately, I have not yet played it online and today is April 1.

It's AE, not AM.

Oooooooooooh. I was wondering why we had a duplication. Thought "what is everyone bitching about; Charm + Inner Flame + tell lit Ijyb to attack Sigmund = Win" was great.

I had his own summoned quokka blow Eustachio the fuck up. Was awesome.

Sandman25 wrote:http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Vampire

What this page lacks is a comment about quaffing mutation / beneficial mutation.

diviton wrote:I already started the character and I'm XL7 but I stopped playing when I realized it was April fools. If I start back up tomorrow will all this be gone?

Nope, probably not. I think you'll need to play on another server. If cszo works fine for you now, cbro is probably your best bet.

And how do I move my character to another server? I feel like I've asked this before, but i forgot. >_>

Hm, you can't move it as far as I know. You'll have to restart.

As far as I understood the april fools trunk is just an experimental branch which has been linked to the normal "play trunk" option. Normal trunk is available under "old trunk" within the experimental branches on CSZO. Furthermore the april fools games are not logged anyway (like every other experimental branch)?!

fearitself wrote:I think we might be co-leaders Stickyfingers!

The divisions worked well I think. My division had some good battles going each week and might have contended with any other division except Div 1.

As everyone else has said, Thank you, Walkerboh. I had a blast and hope you have another competition soon.

Oh, so you died

?
I assumed you're going to win, but yeah, it'll be a tie in this case.

Tedronai wrote: Furthermore the april fools games are not logged anyway (like every other experimental branch)?!

WHAT???!!!???

NO!!!!!!!!!!

My VpAE is running around with Agra!

Lantern of Shadows... killed Ijyb as a bat...

Wait... if April fools day characters aren't logged, does that mean even if I win this character it wont count?

Yeah I can only track logged games. To be safe, please just do not play cszo trunk...

I tried to make an illustration on what the current situation on CSZO is (console is analogous, experimental -> t):

Spoiler: show

I was playing off of http://crawl.akrasiac.org:8080/#lobby

F*n player ghost took me down so.... good. I'll try that.

Okay, I fired up ny usual trunk and the character was gone so I started a new one. I'm assuming this is allowed since you couldn't see my previous character anyway.

Can you see my current one?

Well, I didn't get any runes, but I sure did get some people to die while in bat form!

Sorry for the lack of updates to the scoring sheet, been a bit busy the last couple days. I will update everything tonight for sure.

Blarg, lost a on-paper-promising character. I had cleared Shoals, had a +4/+6 great sword of elec, MDA and all slots filled, much of it with decent stuff, good rings . . . but the character felt weirdly fragile. Even with +4 acc weapon and ~15 Fighting and 18 LBl skill, I still missed even non-evasive targets constantly.

Worse, Vault:1 stairs got swamped by 2x vault wardens, 2x convokers, and a bunch of other nasties, making going back into vaults near-suicidal (in retrospect, maybe random teleport would have been a good choice). Spider:4 had Mara positioned such that I couldn't reasonably get past him and still have a safe retreat path, and Mara refused to die to stacks of Summon Greater Demon.

So, after clearing Depths:1 (not that bad, actually), I decided that the next best thing I could do was to clear Elf. Okay, probably not the best idea, and I probably should have left well enough alone after just barely escaping from a Hell Sentinel flinging hellfire at me. But I didn't. And so, 3/4ths of the elf deathchamber later, I find myself going toe-to-toe with a master archer. I'm at full health, I have Repel Missiles up, I've got a decent stock of consumables, and mostly elves have been going down pretty easy once I'm toe-to-toe. Edit: Even dual-ego-blade blademasters weren't much of an issue, and they have 10 more EV /EDIT. Five swings later, I've got it at about 50% health and it has done almost no damage to me. Then it hits me for 1/5th of my health. I swing again, and it does it again. And again. I was playing too fast and didn't realize what was happening until I was at > 50% health. I drank healing, and the elf promptly unhealed me and took some extra hp to boot. I drank agility, and another 30 hp was gone. At this point I was desperate, and I tried curing, and took another 21 damage, just enough to kill me.

Based on all my previous experience, a +4/+6 great sword and 18/15 LBl/Fighting is a pretty accurate and effective killing tool, and 30/24 or so defenses are pretty solid defenses. I'm really confused about why this character felt so weak and squishy, and why that elf suddenly turned into a badass and shredded my face off. Could it have been an absurdly long string of bad rolls? It seems improbable.

Ah well. Tournament's over for me, and I feel like I could have posted a better showing, but I think I've still got a shot at winning Div III.

Thanks for organizing this tournament, WalkerBoh!

Lasty wrote:Based on all my previous experience, a +4/+6 great sword and 18/15 LBl/Fighting is a pretty accurate and effective killing tool, and 30/24 or so defenses are pretty solid defenses. I'm really confused about why this character felt so weak and squishy, and why that elf suddenly turned into a badass and shredded my face off. Could it have been an absurdly long string of bad rolls? It seems improbable.

Post it to a YASD.

Lasty wrote:Ah well. Tournament's over for me, and I feel like I could have posted a better showing, but I think I've still got a shot at winning Div III.

Just for you or is it all over? 10 weeks?

XuaXua wrote:Just for you or is it all over? 10 weeks?

For everyone. This was the last week.

Lasty wrote:
XuaXua wrote:Just for you or is it all over? 10 weeks?

For everyone. This was the last week.

Oh damn. Had no idea. I wanted this to go for perpetuity! I like a weekly bi-weekly-long challenge.

So, speaking of that VpAE loss I mentioned before, I recreated the situation in wizard mode, except I didn't bother to set any resistances or my +acc boots or Makhleb. I created deep elf master archers one after another, woke them up, let them equip a weapon and take the first shot, and then killed them.

I killed 12 of them in a row without healing or using anything other than tab before dying. Several had branded weapons or arrows. I think I'm ready to say that losing this character was an extraordinarily bad streak of luck.

XuaXua wrote:
Lasty wrote:
XuaXua wrote:Just for you or is it all over? 10 weeks?

For everyone. This was the last week.

Oh damn. Had no idea. I wanted this to go for perpetuity! I like a weekly bi-weekly-long challenge.

Something like this would work pretty well, but the format would need to be significantly different. And I certainly wouldn't be able to ask for signups or group people into divisions.

And I'm out too. My TrAM went over the deadline ( :oops:

) then in postwin euphoria, I rolled and killed 2 VpAE's in quick succession. I just can't get the hang of low HP races, unless it's something sturdy like VS.

Anyway, I'd like to add my thanks to WalkerBoh for all the hard work. It was really fun!

XuaXua wrote:
Lasty wrote:
XuaXua wrote:Just for you or is it all over? 10 weeks?

For everyone. This was the last week.

Oh damn. Had no idea. I wanted this to go for perpetuity! I like a weekly bi-weekly-long challenge.

I disagree. 10 weeks for a season is perfect. It is practically 3 months, there is no need for longer seasons than this.

Yeah, and this way people can join/leave more easily.

10 weeks was fine; I just didn;t know when the end was.

Looks like the numbers updated, but I'm missing. Wasn't the April Fools version I last played.

Okay, finally had a spare hour and updated everything. Xuaxua and diviton, I got your games in there.

@everyone: Please please please check your scores/bonuses/etc. I have everything updated right now, but I could have very easily forgotten/missed/typo'd something, and it's a ton for me to check. If you see something that's off, please send me a message. And thanks everyone for making this a successful and fun inaugural CSDC season!

(except for everyone who played less than half of the games without telling me, you guys are on my shit list)

Thank YOU, WalkerBoh, for running an awesome challenge, even though I knew I'd end up where I was in the rankings, all the hard work you put into this, and all the balancing of the challenges was top notch.

All it missed was unessential fluff text and weekly color commentary.

The Tavern

CSDC Week 10 - VpAE, CLOSED

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