Centaur lava moat vault

[danr]

I dreamed this up while thinking of situations in which a wand of apportation would be useful (or the spell). I don't know if it's overpowered in some way, if the loot is too much or too little, and I just made it by modifying the sample in introduction.txt using some info from syntax.txt. Before I submit it I thought I'd ask for comments.

  Code:

# name below:
NAME:    centaur_lava_moat
# header section below:
ORIENT:  float                    # "ORIENT: float" tells the level builder that
                                  #     this entry can be anywhere on the level.
TAGS:    no_pool_fixup   
MONS:    centaur, centaur captain
ITEM:   
KFEAT:   
# actual map below:               # The symbols on the map:
MAP     
.........                         # l - lava (may contain monsters!)
xlllllllx                         # . - floor
xl%l*l%lx                         # % - normal item
xlllllllx                         # * g - good item
xl1l2l1lx                         # 1 - first monster from list (here centaur)
xlllllllx                         # 2 - second monster from list (centaur captain)
xxxxxxxxx                         
ENDMAP                           
                           


[danr]

Those ITEM and KFEAT lines were just in the example, so I left them in.

Sorry, yes I meant Centaur warrior.

Do you have anything positive to say?

[danr]

Well, you could say something like "Congratulations on designing your first vault, here are some comments to help you improve it" or whatever.

Anyhow, this is just an idea I wanted to try. If there's already too many centaur vaults, or we shouldn't have vaults where apportation is useful or whatever then there's no point trying to refine it. I'll leave the vault designing to those who know what they're doing.

[co]

Don't be discouraged!
If we think that that there is too many of that kind of vault (I don't) we could always lower the weight of those vaults.
Also I don't think that that square edges on water and lava is unpleasant, it just gives the vault a different feel. If something is symmetric or rectangular it looks man-made like a trap or fort, if you randomize the appearance and make it look irregular it will look "natural" like a forest or lake (not man-made), it really depends on what you want it to look like. In your case i think the square like is fine, definetly feels like a trap or guarded treasure. The only problem I have with it is (and I'm aware that this might be nitpicky) that the centaur appears to be standing on a single tile surrounded by lava, how did he get there? I would change that centaur into a crossbow wielding statue, this way the vault will look even more like a man-made trap (which is awesome IMHO).

It does take while before you really get into vault making and it's really confusing at first. Don't give up!
Also when you put stuff on a public forum like this and ask for feedback, you'll get some feedback that will sound negative (you have to expect this). It's hard to be both constructive and nice across the internet.

I agree with minmays advice to play around with SUBST, you can actually do some really creative stuff with it and its one of my favourite tools when vault making.
Good luck!

[danr]

I was considering both of those ideas actually - using a statue, and/or putting the guards in the back.

The other thing that could make it tougher is that there might be lava worms in the lava.

I kept it square because I did not want it to get too big.

However, the main concept of this vault is just to have loot on 1x1 islands, so that you either need a lot of potions of levitation to get it all, or apportation, or if you just have one potion of levitation and one teleport scroll, you can only get one of the items and you have to choose which one. The guard of whatever kind is just an afterthought.

[co]

Ah, one more thing.
It's important when you make islands or enclosed rooms that you include a way to escape, such as an escape hatch. The players must not be able to trap themselves in an enclosed space.
Starving to death because of a vault is not fun.

[danr]

Hm - what would be better, a teleport trap or an escape hatch going down on each mini-island? Can one randomize between the two?

Also - how good are "good" items?

[Zicher]

Do you have anything positive to say?

If others don't, I do.

Thanks for setting up and keeping up this forum, thanks for trying to get a shot with a vault, thanks for all you've done to make Crawl's community a good place to visit.

(Not only for Danr, but for all the good people here - thanks a lot. I just felt I had to say this . )

[Stormfox]

Hm - what would be better, a teleport trap or an escape hatch going down on each mini-island?

Escape hatch. Unless you want the monsters on the island triggering the trap themselves and getting out of the vault.

[vintermann]

Ah, one more thing.
It's important when you make islands or enclosed rooms that you include a way to escape, such as an escape hatch. The players must not be able to trap themselves in an enclosed space.
Starving to death because of a vault is not fun.

If you flew in there deliberately, with no plan for getting back, I say you got the kind of fun Crawl typically throws at you

I do appreciate the vaults that have escape hatches in such situations, because that means I will more often be able to exploit them. It's just that there's still room for vaults that require more than a single potion of levitation.

A cruel vault idea: A spiralling corridor of lava. In the middle is a single tile of solid ground-occupied by a monster (agate snail?). The corridor is long enough that your levitation will be close to expiring, too late to turn back. Whoops, better kill that snail fast.

[MrMisterMonkey]

unfairly and needlessly punishing the player is bad

[vintermann]

Putting characters in challenging situations and subequently punishing bad decisions is what makes crawl an interesting game. There's nothing unfair or needless about not leaving an escape hatch, especially if the player could see there wasn't one. But even if he didn't, levitating into the unknown (as in my hypothetical lava snail vault) is high-risk behavior!

[danr]

I've seen a vault like that, I forget where though - there was a big, many-leveled spiral with a lot of deep water along the way, so the only way in and out would be with a big supply of levitation. That one definitely had the potential to kill the player if they did not have enough levitation and no means of teleporting.

[Zicher]

Ugh, I recall that one. This made me add a --more-- prompt to levitation-expire warning.

[vintermann]

The problem with a vault like that is it promotes spoilers. If you know about it, it's not really dangerous.

IMO, spoilers are only bad when they give you information that

1. You can't feasibly get in-game
2. Gives you a significant advantage

I've run into lots of vaults with areas inaccessible due to deep water, without having a means of crossing it. I don't go digging into des-files when that happens, I go looking for some way to find out in game (wand of digging, potion of levitation etc.) Sometimes curiosity gets the better of me in such situations, leading to challenging situations. I like that.