The Tavern

Mu pros:
1. undead resistances
2. no food clock

Mu cons:
1. no potions
2. mostly terrible apts
3. not-terrible necro apt, but locked out of the best necro spells
4. rF-
5. undead drawbacks (holy/dispel weakness, no berserk/tmut etc.)

Proposed buffs:
1. raise -2 apts to -1
2. unlock regen spell (they can use rings and troll leather, but not the spell. why?)

In their current state they're one of my favorite races, but I feel Mu could get a boost and be more fun to play while maintaining their flavor and challenge. These changes don't affect their main racial gimmicks. Potions are still locked, they still level slowly, they still get smoked by that early fire arrow centaur... the buffs would just cut Mu some slack.

no see you're only allowed to nerf mummies

I agree with the apts being raised a bit.

We should grab the 'hunger=contam' mechanic from Djinn (which don't look like they'll get into a release anyway) and modify it slightly so melee also generates minimal amounts of contam. After that measure to make them less spammy/scummy, I would agree with your proposal, except for the 'Regen' spell part. It can't effect them because it's necromantic reanimation of wounds, and they are already undead. (does it work on Vp or Gh, btw?)

Contam on melee sounds absolutely terrible

The regen spell works on everyone except Mu, DD and bloodless Vp. Regen rings and troll leather don't work on DD and bloodless Vp, but they do work on Mu. If the rings and troll leather work, the spell should work.

Careful, the devs might hear you and nerf that!

Another good day for mummies.

It's supposed to. No hunger clock is pretty abusable, even with Crawl's 'Spawn OOD monsters' countermeasure.

(But I'm talking about making like 150 melee attacks before you reach dangerous levels of contam. It's supposed to be a significant contributing factor, not a primary danger.)

but that just forces you to press 5 even more than mummies already do

Um... how does it make sense for melee to cause contamination. And how does it connect to fun. And why would you nerf mummies as they are now?.. This is so ridiculous that I don't know why I even need to point it out.

Also, I don't think that changing apts from -2 to -1 would be that significant. You should concentrate on as few as possible skills at first to be good as something, anyway. And either way first you'll get levels in skills quite fast and later it will become quite slow. It will take a little less time to get to some level than it takes now, but the difference in the effectiveness probably won't be significant.

^ hunger is how it makes sense -- melee causes hunger, this is a preexisting fact and it's kind of weird that Dj don't get contam from melee while they do from spell-hunger. And it's not a nerf, because I'm saying "IF you boost the apts, THEN I think this is needed."

the only thing contam does is encourage you to press 5 more

that is literally the OPPOSITE of hunger

This idea is kind of strange anyway. I mean, Dj contamination is to prevent spamming high level spells, without training spellcasting, so I doesn't relate to melee. And Dj is quite a raw race to compare them to Mu.

I listed it as a 'pro', but having no food clock is more of a convenience than a strength. And being locked out of potion use is a heavy price to pay for it. They really don't need to be punished further.

Bonus to mummies: when a player mummy dies, curse the slaying monster's equipment.

Start them with 500 gold and if they read a scroll of random uselessness it casts some special ancient evil spell.

why do you discuss utterly fucking horrible ideas
just call them what they are

I have an idea that might be able to 'rein in' the lack of hunger of dj, mu, and that overpowered lich form abuse. First, there could be a unique demon named Hunglor that wanders around the middle of the dungeon. Hunglor casts a torment-targeted spell that cuts your hunger level in half, but if you are immune to hunger you get so much contam that you are immediately exploding. Hunglor is also escorted by a pack of special hungry ghosts that blink around and haste themselves. If he ever gets low on health, he can just eat one of his hungry ghosts to fully heal, so you have to kill all of them first.

Defeating Hunglor reveals an altar to the god Feastinarious, God of Satiation. Feastinarious appreciates finding food and killing living monsters (because they could theoretically eat food, and now there's more for you and Feastinarious). Abilities could be as follows:
* Boon of Food (Active). A small food item falls from the sky into your lap. Can only be used at hungry or worse.
Flavor text: "No one goes hungry at my table, mortal!"
** Contentment (Passive). Whenever you are at full or better, you gain 10 AC, EV, and SH.
Flavor text: "You feel the warmth of satiation wash over you."
*** Hunger pangs (Active). Invoke to cause a short paralysis in all living monsters in sight.
Flavor text: "Empty yon bellies and suffer!!!"
**** Omnivore (Passive). Can now eat non-food items. Can also eat dungeon features such as doors by walking into them.
Flavor text: "You begin to see opportunities for a good meal in new places."
***** Engorge (Active). Eat another monster. After ~5 turns, you will digest that monster, gaining all of its abilities (whatever spells it could cast, its speed, stronger melee if it was good at melee, etc.).
Flavor text: The (foo) screams in terror as your mouth opens impossibly wide!

what if GDD threads were less terrible

^^ That's an interesting application of Poe's Law; I can't help but approve of anything that reduces the number of Hungry Ghosts hanging around being either annoyingly ineffective or annoyingly effective, in spite of full awareness of the parodicalness.

Dunno why you posted it in this thread though, since the mu/dj problem is not about -the lack of hunger effects- but the -result of- the lack of hunger effects (being able to get spammy with it.). Perhaps you should post it in the thread complaining about ignorant newbie complaints like 'there isn't enough food'. Or create one if there isn't one.

It's a joke. -.-

Yeah, it's a pretty decent joke. What exactly in my post indicates otherwise?

On a COMPLETELY UNRELATED note, we should make a memorial for the countless, and ongoing, victims of 'lack of tone in text'. It's serious business, or so I am told.

My paradox is loving both this post and this thread.

I cannot believe this thread is not in CYC.

OH WAIT IT IS

I was not making a joke with this thread.

Seriously, though, buff mummies.

@mikee, I would play that god, except for the last power. Next April Fool's please implement (except for the whole needing to kill Hunglor which is just weird)!

Actually, it'd be kinda weird/interesting in general if you could unlock gods by killing certain uniques...

(P)ray
"The Shining One's voice booms out: You may worship me if you bring me the head of Grinder!"